Content invalidated by power creep

[LaFurion.3167]

Game is super boring now with how insanely power crept the classes are.

Playing my engineer I remember pulling an enemy to me and crow bar him into pistol 3 4 to condi bomb. Now its boom boom scourge gg all condi debuff is on 5 targets aoe. No skill. Spam f1-f5 and profit.

Remember when you had to set up bulls charge to hit hundred blades? Lol jk berserk arcing slice x 2 and cleave for massive amounts of damage that cant all be dodged.

Even in pve. I did world completion.... honestly I preferred doing it on core necro rather than this scourge/reaper power creep that invalidates literally every event/part of the map besides world bosses (arguably even those too).

Just zoom through 50 mobs at a time with reaper. Blow up 50 at a time with scourge condi bomb...

Please nerf all damage done by players in game and on elite specs by 15-20%.

And maybe add more veterans in core tyria. Atm it is a joke. My mount ability one shots mobs up till lvl 10. Then I 2 shot things until level 40 with my reaper shroud auto....

I feel power creep has seriously ruined all game modes and worry it will get worse.

[LaFurion.3167]

Unless the new saga is HoT type difficulty where it actually takes decent open world builds to do content I fear it will be really boring and zoom through with no challenge again.

[BlueJin.4127]

I wish Gift of Exploration just requires map completing any 25 maps, instead of original core maps. On a level 80, core maps are pretty boring to map complete.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

I feel your pain, but core GW2 is probably easy for a reason. The problem is that if new players go to HoT and PoF they get hit by a surprise uptick in difficulty right off the bat. Unfortunately, not all areas in PvE are created equally, and frankly, the fact you can solo champs in core Tyria with relative ease to moderate challenge is more a gage on player skill and understanding that they simply don't DO much. Regular mobs don't attack very often, and then in Expansion territories there are either tons of mobs, mobs who hit hard, or tons of mobs who hit hard. People with even a modicum of timing can maneuver through most of open world content anywhere with a small amount of effort.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see deadlier and more varied encounters. I was pleasantly surprised on Dragonfall with the patrol groups of Shadow Army folks and how dangerous they were to underestimate, but as soon as I adjusted it wasn't so bad at all. The only thing I'll say is that there are a surprising number of players who don't understand even basic mechanics, and there are some who don't care to understand basic mechanics, though I hope that they're a minority... In any case, the game actually does a poor job of explaining how complex combat can become. There are some neat combos you can do beyond just combos/finishers and a substantial amount of people don't go beyond waiting for skills to come off CD. (Looking at YOU longbow 4 spamming rangers :'( )

[Matoro.9708]

Based. It's all true. If you want to feel weak again, run turrets like I do.

[Konrad Curze.5130]

reaper and specially scourge are insultingly overtuned and you should feel bad for even logging on them to do open world

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

@BlueJin.4127 said:I wish Gift of Exploration just requires map completing any 25 maps, instead of original core maps. On a geared level 80, core maps are pretty boring to map complete.

It's pretty boring to do the second time regardless of how geared you are.

[Blocki.4931]

Why do you want mobs that are way below your level to be challenging? That's not the point. Downscaling does the job fine, they're not supposed to be as dangerous as content you'd face nowadays.

Just face the fact that it's content over 7 years old, in no way does it have to hold up to players right now. No other game does this either.

[Shep.4026]

The learning curve in this game, at least when entering anything after Core Tyria, is pretty steep. I only started actively playing the summer of last year. It wasn't long, iirc a day, maybe two, that after seeing ppl gliding and riding mounts that I bought HoT, PoF and a little later LS 2 and 3. Some of the encounters in LS2 were so unbelievably awful, I think I even came onto the forums and complained that, althoug the story was wicked, these fights were the most unfun and painfully offputting experience I had ever made in a computer-game. Moving on to HoT it just got worse. It actually took me at least half a year, if not more and the help of a guildmate to complete the final fight with Mordy.

The main problem, as stated, is understanding basic mechanics or rather, understanding that they are in fact important and can't be ignored. Like movement, dodging and consequently endurance management. Nowadays these things don't become really important until LS 2 and beyond. And if to top things off you come from games where these things don't exist, let alone matter, understanding them and atually becoming minimally proficient at them are two very different things.

I don't know how it used to be, but I'm guessing that those mechanics were important in early Core Tyria. So anyone from that "age" was already proficient when LS2 and HoT and so forth were introduced. Add in Elite-Specs and any Veteran will experience any current Open World Content as a breeze or will at the very least be able to quickly adapt to the new challenge. Finding the balance between these two groups of players, absolute beginners and hardcore veterans, is quite likely one of the most difficult challenges of Online-Game developers. Especially considering the currently available content. A new player, like myself around a year ago, may want to skip core to quickly get the Glider and a (or the) mount(s) and will then get hit by a freight train by content that a veteran may find trivial due to "power creep".

I recently completed the HoT story for the second time and solo'd the battle with Mordy with my Warrior in the first attempt. It felt great and it made me realize that I had crossed that point on the learning curve. In a year or two I'll probably have forgotten that feeling and everything here will feel trivial. It's the natural evolution of these games or rather of their players. In every single online game I've played, veteran players complain that content "has become" too easy. That may be the case a little, but moreso is it the vets that have become too good at beating it.

[tippolit.3591]

@"Konrad Curze.5130" said:reaper and specially scourge are insultingly overtuned and you should feel bad for even logging on them to do open world

I totally agree. IMHO, condi application in general and the introduction of the Scourge in particular so dumbed down the game (both in pve and wvw) that to use the word "skill" in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

[LucianDK.8615]

I am having much more enjoyment out of the game since I switched to Reaper from Revenant. Herald Revenants are so painfully fragile compared to a Reaper.

[Luthan.5236]

It's normal that this happens. You have players that want new stuff. So elite specs got added and stuff got changed. Might change even more if they make newer expansions in the future. Makes sense to have older content easier - so new players can catch up faster if they want. The latest content should be balanced to the latest strength of the chars/professions.

[Tinker.6924]

The dev team tries to do class balancing

• they nerf classes and players cry "don't nerf me, just buff other classes"
• they buff other classes next time, players complain about power creep

The power creep in this game, if you can call it that, is so minuscule, so fractional, so slow over time that it really isn't.

[Astralporing.1957]

To everyone speaking about power creep and it making the content easy, i present the link i always include in such a situation:

Notice, this is year 2013, the very beginning of the game.

It's not the power creep. You're just getting better.

[kurfu.5623]

@LaFurion.3167 said:Game is super boring

And that's where I stopped reading.

[Dayra.7405]

@kurfu.5623 said:

@LaFurion.3167 said:Game is super boring

And that's where I stopped reading.

A mistake, the following things he said to justify his judgement are more interesting than his judgment.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Have to agree with the OP. Mobs on any maps take no thought or effort.

The biggest complaint I see on this forum about mobs is Aggro range because they can’t ‘take a break’ in the open field..

The worry isn’t about mobs being hard, it’s that they might kill you when you are AFK??

Champs, legendaries, bounty’s etc, I get..

But PoF and HoT mobs are only slightly harder to face roll the keyboard against..

And all people want is to increase the ‘power’ of their favorite toon because some other toon outperforms it.

[Skotlex.7580]

Despite all the difficulty related to class balance and adjusting for varied skills level, I really wish ANet would "unnerf" core Tyria and vastly improve the scaling of their events.

Currently, when a low level map comes up for daily events, I cringe at the idea of trying it since I know the events scale up poorly, to the point everything falls like ambient creatures, and a player can be participating during the whole event without being able to tag enemies to get credit (unless a scourge).

Event scaling is broken when the polite thing to do is to "just press 1 to allow more people to get credit", this is something that should never be encouraged by the game.

Why can't all core events scale up when sufficient number of players show up to have spawns of groups of veterans leaded by an elite monster? Even in Orr veteran mobs die fast, but at least they give way more room for players to participate.

[Dayra.7405]

ANet could solve that in a quite easy way, by adapting the down-leveling mechanic.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_level_adjustment

Currently every higher-level is downscaled to be 1 level higher than the map area.This could be a bit more dynamic for core-tyria, e.g. as following

• -1 to your downscaled char-level, if you are full ascended
• -1 to your downscaled char-level, if your account has more than 5000 play-hours (you know the game mechanics)
• -1 to your downscaled char-level, if your char has more than 1000 play-hours (you know the class mechanics)
• -1 if you are using an elite-specialization
• -1 if you have Tyria map-completion with that char
• -1 if you have masteries above 200
• ...

Or even simpler: give players an option to set a level malus (0 as today 1 level higher than the mob, till -10 to be 9 level lower than the mobs).That should make things for experienced well-equipped Veterans harder. Instead of always 1 level higher than the mobs, you may end some levels lower than the mobs.

[Antycypator.9874]

1. Content is easy, so everyone can have "simple" fun on shreding enemies.
2. Content isn't challenging anymore (as I know from hardcore veterans, this game was challenging at the begining). Power creep means you can cleave everything using only aa chain, mobs are dying faster than they can attack you.

Dungeon's mobs are pretty difficult to kill solo. They can deal heavy damage, long CC (10s fear in TA), but most important thing is: they are in groups. Some mobs in Dragonfall are more challenging than regular "trash" — they can buff themselves with barrier and boons, they can even evade. I think regular mobs don't need to be boosted with raw damage, but in way how they're fighting. Give them new skills, make condis matter (condition damage from OW mobs hurts only if you have less than 1000hp), maybe they should block, evade? But not super long evade like Branded Griffons have.Something that would make people think "maybe I should take a stun breaker and condi cleanse instead of X".

[Dreamreaver.4908]

@Dayra.7405 said:ANet could solve that in a quite easy way, by adapting the down-leveling mechanic.

Currently every higher-level is downscaled to be 2 level higher than the map area.This could be a bit more dynamic for core-tyria, e.g. as following

• -1 to your downscaled char-level, if you are full ascended
• -1 to your downscaled char-level, if your account has more than 5000 play-hours (you know the game mechanics)
• -1 to your downscaled char-level, if your char has more than 1000 play-hours (you know the class mechanics)
• -1 if you are using an elite-specialization
• -1 if you have Tyria map-completion with that char
• -1 if you have masteries above 200
• ...

That should make things for experienced well-equipped Veterans harder. Instead of always 2 level higher than the mobs, you may end some levels lower than the mobs.

That'd just tick me off. :/ Already find level 83 mobs in Fractals to be more of a nuisance than anything, and also kind of don't like how downscaling makes half your stuff ineffective. Though this only really matters when it comes to like soloing champs and stuff. Like those core Tyria open world bounties. Would mop the floor with them with ease if we were both level 80.

Don't mess with meee! Just make the encounters more engaging.

[Thorstienn.1642]

@"LaFurion.3167" said:And maybe add more veterans in core tyria. Atm it is a joke. My mount ability one shots mobs up till lvl 10. Then I 2 shot things until level 40 with my reaper shroud auto....

You want level 10 mobs to be scaled better to deal with Elite specs and mounts, they are designed for players that dont even have all their weapon abilities unlocked (lvl 8 for 5th)! They dont even have a utility slot, no traits, some armor with a total of maybe +10 to stats.Or level 40? Designed for players with only 1/3 trait lines made available.But no, people that keep making these posts about core Tyria are right, thenleveling zones are too easy for our max level, elite specced, expansion equipped, ascended wearing, fractal gods to plow through, and so our Map completion or random dailies event is soooooo boring!

If someone wants to complain that LWS 5 is too easy, or the upcoming Sagas etc, go for it! And let's be honest here, if these moves still kicked your behind today, the forums would be filled with "the game is too hard" and "we dont progress or feel more powerful" threads.

In PvE related matters, we have to start putting ourselves in others shoes. If someone says they are struggling in Orr, dont say " nah Orr is easy; mount groups them and takes off 25%damage, then reaper shroud 4 finishes them off. Its easy, l2p issue". Or my personal favourite; Nerf HoT HPs= "nah, they are super easy, soloed all on my Mirage!"

Remember, all the content in the game has a "target audience". Core tyria is for <80s. HPs are for, well, HPs to unlock elite specs etc.

In saying that. As I said, if you want to complain about power creep in PvP, WvW, or endgame, go for it! But leave core tyria alone.

[Dami.5046]

This is just another please nerf XYZ set in another time and place.as if we don't have enough threads on the subject.

[Operator.2590]

People are really complaining that content from the Core game isn't holding up to end game? How does that even make sense? Of course it's going to be boring--not only are you level 80 now, in areas meant for leveling rather than end-game challenge, but you're also comparing them to elite specializations that weren't even around for Core Tyria. How would they tune enemies in Core Tyria for specializations that didn't even exist yet?

TBH I'd understand the argument more if it was "Anet should revamp the core zones", not (what essentially becomes) "nerf reaper and scourge because I'm not one".

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Blocki.4931" said:Just face the fact that it's content over 7 years old, in no way does it have to hold up to players right now. No other game does this either.

It's true that it would take additional resources to update the old content, so it will likely never happen, but - as discussed in the other thread - it would be great if they could at least rework the story missions to add a bit more difficulty to them (not going to happen, either, I know).

I mean, you can basically AFK the Claw Island mission in which you fight the dragon ("Retribution"?) - the NPCs will do the killing for you. This has nothing to do with "getting better at the game", nor with better equipment these days or some power creep. It's the lack of decent fight mechanics.