Would you want ascended runes & sigils with better stats/effects?

[Ashantara.8731]

I would prefer if we could craft ascended upgrades (rune/sigils OR infusions) with effect auras of our choice (from what's available in the game). That would be cool. :)

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:If we’re worried about power creep, we could lower the stats/effects on all existing exotic runes and sigils by ~ 10%.So their current stats and effects are given instead to ascended and legendary versions.And there will be no power creep in this area I guess.Right now it feels incomplete to me without that ascended upgrade version.

That wouldn't be a solution and it also wouldn't solve the power creep issue in the game as it is. I can also imagine there would be farther reaching consequences with the ingame market for materials as well as content that gives said exotic runes/sigils.

If the system feels incomplete to you its because ANet's attempts at horizontal progression thus far, especially recently, hasn't exactly been great. Ascended food is trivial, the Legendary Upgrades stuff is just an overly glorified version of the Infinite Upgrade Extractor (which I think it is still cheaper to buy that than it is to even bother with making the Legendary Upgrades). Not to mention their addition of newer stat sets with the Living World releases, even those that came with Expansion releases, have been some of the exact things that have contributed to power creep among classes.

[Dante.1508]

@Hynax.9536 said:

@"Dante.1508" said:Its bad enough as it is with Ascended being 30% stronger than Exotics we really do not need to split the player base more unless they sell Ascended on the black lion Auction..

First , It is just 5%, you can check on wiki or other posts in the forum to see people discussing and sometimes they even get lesser improvement than 5%.

Second, ascended and exotic gear definitely does not split player base, literally everything you do in the game has a chance to drop ascended gear, we have lots of achievments to get ascended weapons and armors , trinkets can easily be bought just by daily login (laurel) or by playing living world content (map currency). Aside from fractals T2+ that need ascended for infusions, raids and wvw can be played with exotic gear and in open world gear almost does not matter at all.

People did the math early at its release full set of ascended is (my mistake it was 12% more powerful) than a full set of exotics.. still a significant boost over 5%

here are sources with percentageshttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/30517/ascended-vs-exotic-not-5https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/31wbip/ascended_vs_exotic_gear_comparison_spreedsheet/Even the devs say 5-10 percenthttps://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-27-arenanet-holds-frank-reddit-debate-on-guild-wars-2-loot-grind

[kasoki.5180]

Even though i think we dont need anymore power creep, I do think we need more build customization options. So I would be in favor of this if it were part of greater class and gear redisign

[Hashberry.4510]

Maybe the system is at its limit. The base won't accept power creep; the game has no where to go but push the weak story and shinies. That can't last much longer.

[Tinker.6924]

If someone is doing a ton of work to get these items, then they deserve something better than merely a cool aesthetic. Yes, they deserve some extra power

[Astralporing.1957]

@EmmetOtter.8542 said:If someone is doing a ton of work to get these items, then they deserve something better than merely a cool aesthetic. Yes, they deserve some extra powerTwo wrongs won't make a right, you know.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

Frankly, I'm not sure how long horizontal progression will keep people's attention. Been here since betas and even though it's been nice to not have to chase an artificial ceiling that keeps getting pushed with each expansion... the longer things stay unchallenging the more I want there to be a focus on vertical progression. If they won't buff PvE monsters to make it harder, then what's the point of any PvE besides story?

[Astralporing.1957]

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:Frankly, I'm not sure how long horizontal progression will keep people's attention. Been here since betas and even though it's been nice to not have to chase an artificial ceiling that keeps getting pushed with each expansion... the longer things stay unchallenging the more I want there to be a focus on vertical progression. If they won't buff PvE monsters to make it harder, then what's the point of any PvE besides story?If they will buff pve monsters to make it harder, and then give you better gear to make it easier, what's the point of it all?

[Ultramex.1506]

I read that Anet got flak for adding ascended equipments even though they are only 5% stronger but 14 ascended gears = 70% stats boost, now add ascended runes 30% and sigils 10%, and that mean: Bye bye WvW.As for effects, can we get "prevent blindness" slider first?

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"Ultramex.1506" said:I read that Anet got flak for adding ascended equipments even though they are only 5% stronger but 14 ascended gears = 70% stats boost, now add ascended runes 30% and sigils 10%, and that mean: Bye bye WvW.As for effects, can we get "prevent blindness" slider first?

That's not how a 5% boost works.

Assume you get 100 stats from 10 pieces of gear. That's a total stat of 1000. Add a 5% boost to one piece, you've now got one piece with 105 (that's a .05, or 5% boost), but the total is only 1005 (only a .005 boost, or a half of one percent). In order to get a 5% boost on the total stat, you'd need that 5% boost on all 10 pieces.

[Ultramex.1506]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@"Ultramex.1506" said:I read that Anet got flak for adding ascended equipments even though they are only 5% stronger but 14 ascended gears = 70% stats boost, now add ascended runes 30% and sigils 10%, and that mean: Bye bye WvW.As for effects, can we get "prevent blindness" slider first?

That's not how a 5% boost works.

Assume you get 100 stats from 10 pieces of gear. That's a total stat of 1000. Add a 5% boost to one piece, you've now got one piece with 105 (that's a .05, or 5% boost), but the total is only 1005 (only a .005 boost, or a half of one percent). In order to get a 5% boost on the

total

stat, you'd need that 5% boost on all 10 pieces.

Aaahh thanks, still i doubt Anet will get away with boosting runes/sigils stats

[FrigginPaco.4178]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"FrigginPaco.4178" said:Frankly, I'm not sure how long horizontal progression will keep people's attention. Been here since betas and even though it's been nice to not have to chase an artificial ceiling that keeps getting pushed with each expansion... the longer things stay unchallenging the more I want there to be a focus on vertical progression. If they won't buff PvE monsters to make it harder, then what's the point of any PvE besides story?If they will buff pve monsters to make it harder, and then give you better gear to make it easier, what's the point of it all?

Well, first of all I would rather they didn't "give" me anything. It would be earned through some means. And the point is to be able to visualize your progress which frankly hasn't been a thing in many years. I suppose people could argue that player skill is the real progress here, but I don't like that idea because of the connotations behind it.

I've been helping some of my guildies get their first set of ascended armor and weapons for the first fully geared character. The thing is that they already feel much more powerful and that should be no surprise. The problem is they will go through a long period where they will not notice any sort of change in their effectiveness. When they execute their skills more fluidly, without hesitation or thinking about them as much because they know them better, that is more the "final cap" instead of gear at the moment. However, after player growth there is literally nothing to improve what you're able to do in a combat scenario.

I've got about 18 different characters at level 80 and off the top of my head, I only think that one or two of them doesn't have fully ascended gear. I miss finding an upgrade I really do. I guess the big problem is nothing in the game is so dire that it requires an upgrade from ascended at this point. Hence my hope that something changes in that regard.

[Khisanth.2948]

Seems like a silly question considering the fact that even the legendary ones do not provide any higher stats.

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:Frankly, I'm not sure how long horizontal progression will keep people's attention.

Perhaps because some people just don't need to be lied to constantly and pretend like there is progress when there isn't any.

Been here since betas and even though it's been nice to not have to chase an artificial ceiling that keeps getting pushed with each expansion... the longer things stay unchallenging the more I want there to be a focus on vertical progression. If they won't buff PvE monsters to make it harder, then what's the point of any PvE besides story?

If you buff the monsters AND increase players stats that isn't making anything harder. That is just wasting a lot of time and resources to maintain the status quo.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

What changes would you guys propose to make legendary runes / sigils more desirable?

[FrigginPaco.4178]

@Khisanth.2948 said:Seems like a silly question considering the fact that even the legendary ones do not provide any higher stats.

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:Frankly, I'm not sure how long horizontal progression will keep people's attention.

Perhaps because some people just don't need to be lied to constantly and pretend like there is progress when there isn't any.

Been here since betas and even though it's been nice to not have to chase an artificial ceiling that keeps getting pushed with each expansion... the longer things stay unchallenging the more I want there to be a focus on vertical progression. If they won't buff PvE monsters to make it harder, then what's the point of any PvE besides story?

If you buff the monsters AND increase players stats that isn't making anything harder. That is just wasting a lot of time and resources to maintain the status quo.

Let's hold on just a little bit. Dont bust my kittens and patronize me over a forum post. Obviously I'm not a game developer, more specifically I'm not a game developer for Guild Wars 2. My suggestions should not be taken as anything remotely close to how things should be handled in the future. It's just a perception that I have shifted towards after so long. The thing is, I hope that some of my suggestions aren't automatically shut down because of some adherence to the games uncompromising philosophy and catering to as wide an audience as possible. I realize how that sounds, but I'm really not trying to make this about casual versus non casual players. Over time, people will get better at the game. That's plain to see. And I'm simply saying that there are more ways to allow for vertical growth to come into Guild Wars 2 at smaller increments.

However... when I say buff the monsters, I don't simply mean make them hit harder, give them more health, and make them attack faster. Although, I do believe that they should attack a little bit faster than they do.

What I mean is an expansion of what each monster is capable of doing OR enduring. I mean actual monster mechanics that are not simply it runs up to you and hits you or shoots you from far away. Right now one of the only things that you can really see as a mechanic for most monsters in the open world is the break bar. As far as it goes, I really enjoy the break bar. It's a way to tell how you're incorrectly or correctly engaging with the monster in order to take it down faster. Even things like striking something in the rear or flank (beetles are nice like this), or things that shift between being susceptible to power vs condition damage in small phases, etc. I really mean mechanically oriented changes here.

Additionally one of the only ways to really increase difficulty without changing level cap is to make most things veterans or Elite versions of those enemies instead of standard mobs. Frankly, any non veteran/non elite mob is just a cakewalk. The Djinn are refreshing (and sometimes frustrating) because I don't believe that any of them are lower than veteran rank.

One of the limitations I find in this game is the fact that it does a poor job of really digging into its action RPG capabilities where consumable items are concerned, and I dont mean food. There are a handful of items that already exist in the game that can give a player stealth who does not normally have access to stealth, summon creatures, give you access to a portal or jump skill, etc. Make some monsters susceptible to a certain type of coating that you have to apply to your weapon in order to damage it further and it just appears as a buff and physical animation around your weapons or something. There's so much potential and I just don't have much of an inkling that horizontal progression only is the way to go.

[Astralporing.1957]

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:Frankly, I'm not sure how long horizontal progression will keep people's attention. Been here since betas and even though it's been nice to not have to chase an artificial ceiling that keeps getting pushed with each expansion... the longer things stay unchallenging the more I want there to be a focus on vertical progression. If they won't buff PvE monsters to make it harder, then what's the point of any PvE besides story?If they will buff pve monsters to make it harder, and then give you better gear to make it easier, what's the point of it all?

Well, first of all I would rather they didn't "give" me anything. It would be earned through some means. And the point is to be able to visualize your progress which frankly hasn't been a thing in many years.Ah, but in the situation you brought up there wouldn't be any progress. You would be running in place, without ever getting even a step forward.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:Frankly, I'm not sure how long horizontal progression will keep people's attention. Been here since betas and even though it's been nice to not have to chase an artificial ceiling that keeps getting pushed with each expansion... the longer things stay unchallenging the more I want there to be a focus on vertical progression. If they won't buff PvE monsters to make it harder, then what's the point of any PvE besides story?If they will buff pve monsters to make it harder, and then give you better gear to make it easier, what's the point of it all?

Well, first of all I would rather they didn't "give" me anything. It would be earned through some means. And the point is to be able to visualize your progress which frankly hasn't been a thing in many years.Ah, but in the situation you brought up there wouldn't be any progress. You would be running in place, without ever getting even a step forward.

Respectfully, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean precisely here, maybe just because of quoteception, really... but lemme just word this a bit differently...

I don't feel like there are things to work towards that capture my attention in the way GW2 has done up to this point. Even things like raid legendary armors, which I only have 56 or so LI out of 150 for my first set; I know I'll get QoL upgrades from them but like... so what if it's the same as any humdrum ascended I can make easily or obtain pretty quickly via WvW or PvP? And again, it doesn't have to be gear grind related, it's just that this is almost always the first thing people bring up (yes, me too).

[FrigginPaco.4178]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:What changes would you guys propose to make legendary runes / sigils more desirable?

Something like an additional effect on the 6 or a benefit to the pre-existing 6 bonus like a cooldown reduction, or range increase, something. Ascended Cooking already did that to foods, though I know people are mixed about that as well.

[Astralporing.1957]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:What changes would you guys propose to make legendary runes / sigils more desirable?They should be cheaper. Way cheaper. And the UI should be fixed to make choosing the right option easier and less annoying.

@"FrigginPaco.4178" said:Respectfully, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean precisely here, maybe just because of quoteception, really... but lemme just word this a bit differently...

I don't feel like there are things to work towards that capture my attention in the way GW2 has done up to this point. Even things like raid legendary armors, which I only have 56 or so LI out of 150 for my first set; I know I'll get QoL upgrades from them but like... so what if it's the same as any humdrum ascended I can make easily or obtain pretty quickly via WvW or PvP? And again, it doesn't have to be gear grind related, it's just that this is almost always the first thing people bring up (yes, me too).My view on this is that the "stuff" that should capture my attention should not be better gear. Better gear always gets followed by adjusting mob difficulty to match, so that the end relative difficulty remains the same. This doesn't give me the feeling of progress - it gives me the feeling that all the work i have done is wasted, because i have ended in exactly the same spot i have started from. All i would be doing is running in place. Moreover, once you stop running for even a moment, you see yourself sliding backwards, which is also a feeling i absolutely hate.

Gear/stat continuous upgradins is not progress. It is an illusion of progress meant to fool you into not noticing that all you do is run in place, like a good hamster. I refuse to be fooled that way. I prefer to be fooled by shinies. And good, new content i could run with friends.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

@"FrigginPaco.4178" said:Respectfully, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean precisely here, maybe just because of quoteception, really... but lemme just word this a bit differently...

I don't feel like there are things to work towards that capture my attention in the way GW2 has done up to this point. Even things like raid legendary armors, which I only have 56 or so LI out of 150 for my first set; I know I'll get QoL upgrades from them but like... so what if it's the same as any humdrum ascended I can make easily or obtain pretty quickly via WvW or PvP? And again, it doesn't have to be gear grind related, it's just that this is almost always the first thing people bring up (yes, me too).My view on this is that the "stuff" that should capture my attention should

not

be better gear. Better gear always gets followed by adjusting mob difficulty to match, so that the end relative difficulty remains the same. This doesn't give me the feeling of progress - it gives me the feeling that all the work i have done is wasted, because i have ended in exactly the same spot i have started from. All i would be doing is running in place. Moreover, once you stop running for even a moment, you see yourself sliding backwards, which is also a feeling i absolutely hate.

Gear/stat continuous upgradins is not progress. It is an illusion of progress meant to fool you into not noticing that all you do is run in place, like a good hamster. I refuse to be fooled that way. I prefer to be fooled by shinies. And good, new content i could run with friends.

I'll be the first person to tell you that I used to think of it that way too - like level cap increases and gear cap increases were just moving the carrot-on-a-stick from one treadmill to another. But the idea to me is that mobs, for example, haven't been harder for quite some time. I'm not sure anyone would suggest "Well just play the game in Greens if you want a challenge then!"

What I'm trying to convey is... in a world where we don't have that treadmill, a lot of goal-oriented players who notice that ascended gear and legendary gear don't have any difference between the two and is only a marginal increase from exotic gear, it eliminates the feeling of growth and power fairly early. I may not press all of the skills in their optimal order all the time, but I have a feeling that for the most part I've got the game skill mechanics down pat. And with anywhere between 10-25 skills to memorize on a character at all times, it's not hard to reach your personal plateau where that is concerned. (Firebrand w/books add 15 skills and we could even use more if eles carried all their conjured weapons for some ungodly reason)

[Taygus.4571]

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:Respectfully, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean precisely here, maybe just because of quoteception, really... but lemme just word this a bit differently...

I don't feel like there are things to work towards that capture my attention in the way GW2 has done up to this point. Even things like raid legendary armors, which I only have 56 or so LI out of 150 for my first set; I know I'll get QoL upgrades from them but like... so what if it's the same as any humdrum ascended I can make easily or obtain pretty quickly via WvW or PvP? And again, it doesn't have to be gear grind related, it's just that this is almost always the first thing people bring up (yes, me too).My view on this is that the "stuff" that should capture my attention should

not

be better gear. Better gear always gets followed by adjusting mob difficulty to match, so that the end relative difficulty remains the same. This doesn't give me the feeling of progress - it gives me the feeling that all the work i have done is wasted, because i have ended in exactly the same spot i have started from. All i would be doing is running in place. Moreover, once you stop running for even a moment, you see yourself sliding backwards, which is also a feeling i absolutely hate.

Gear/stat continuous upgradins is not progress. It is an illusion of progress meant to fool you into not noticing that all you do is run in place, like a good hamster. I refuse to be fooled that way. I prefer to be fooled by shinies. And good, new content i could run with friends.

I'll be the first person to tell you that I used to think of it that way too - like level cap increases and gear cap increases were just moving the carrot-on-a-stick from one treadmill to another. But the idea to me is that mobs, for example, haven't been harder for quite some time. I'm not sure anyone would suggest "Well just play the game in Greens if you want a challenge then!"

but the way gear treadmills work...is once you get that better gear....the harder enimies are no longer harder....so you're not only back to where you started....everything below those enemies is even easier.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:Respectfully, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean precisely here, maybe just because of quoteception, really... but lemme just word this a bit differently...

I don't feel like there are things to work towards that capture my attention in the way GW2 has done up to this point. Even things like raid legendary armors, which I only have 56 or so LI out of 150 for my first set; I know I'll get QoL upgrades from them but like... so what if it's the same as any humdrum ascended I can make easily or obtain pretty quickly via WvW or PvP? And again, it doesn't have to be gear grind related, it's just that this is almost always the first thing people bring up (yes, me too).My view on this is that the "stuff" that should capture my attention should

not

be better gear. Better gear always gets followed by adjusting mob difficulty to match, so that the end relative difficulty remains the same. This doesn't give me the feeling of progress - it gives me the feeling that all the work i have done is wasted, because i have ended in exactly the same spot i have started from. All i would be doing is running in place. Moreover, once you stop running for even a moment, you see yourself sliding backwards, which is also a feeling i absolutely hate.

Gear/stat continuous upgradins is not progress. It is an illusion of progress meant to fool you into not noticing that all you do is run in place, like a good hamster. I refuse to be fooled that way. I prefer to be fooled by shinies. And good, new content i could run with friends.

I'll be the first person to tell you that I used to think of it that way too - like level cap increases and gear cap increases were just moving the carrot-on-a-stick from one treadmill to another. But the idea to me is that mobs, for example, haven't been harder for quite some time. I'm not sure anyone would suggest "Well just play the game in Greens if you want a challenge then!"

but the way gear treadmills work...is once you get that better gear....the harder enimies are no longer harder....so you're not only back to where you started....everything below those enemies is even easier.

A mob's mechanics combined, player skill, and gear are typically the three things that make the threshold to beat the mob. Gear is just a way of offering more protection/lethality to your personal contributions to the encounter. The other two pillars make for the last hurdles to beat it. To me, the concept is rooted in being able to take it down as its own reward as well as a measure of your own progress. You are only able to make it easier based on the many times you fought it before, in a similar vein to how Monster Hunter's progression works. You do it often enough to know what to deal with, then farm what you need to make it easier and it feels good when it's done as a method of showing your progress. Here, not that it's easy to get ascended, but it's definitely not prohibitively difficult. [Edit] And if you rotate and play between PvE, WvW, and PvP like me, or even just 2 of the 3 - you can make it even faster.

[Fenom.9457]

Yes, provided that means legendary is also 5% better since it would be the same stat level as ascended. Then more people (such as myself) might have an actual reason I get legendary runes and Sigils aside from OCD for all legendary equipment

[Dante.1508]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:Respectfully, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean precisely here, maybe just because of quoteception, really... but lemme just word this a bit differently...

I don't feel like there are things to work towards that capture my attention in the way GW2 has done up to this point. Even things like raid legendary armors, which I only have 56 or so LI out of 150 for my first set; I know I'll get QoL upgrades from them but like... so what if it's the same as any humdrum ascended I can make easily or obtain pretty quickly via WvW or PvP? And again, it doesn't have to be gear grind related, it's just that this is almost always the first thing people bring up (yes, me too).My view on this is that the "stuff" that should capture my attention should

not

be better gear. Better gear always gets followed by adjusting mob difficulty to match, so that the end relative difficulty remains the same. This doesn't give me the feeling of progress - it gives me the feeling that all the work i have done is wasted, because i have ended in exactly the same spot i have started from. All i would be doing is running in place. Moreover, once you stop running for even a moment, you see yourself sliding backwards, which is also a feeling i absolutely hate.

Gear/stat continuous upgradins is not progress. It is an illusion of progress meant to fool you into not noticing that all you do is run in place, like a good hamster. I refuse to be fooled that way. I prefer to be fooled by shinies. And good, new content i could run with friends.

I'll be the first person to tell you that I used to think of it that way too - like level cap increases and gear cap increases were just moving the carrot-on-a-stick from one treadmill to another. But the idea to me is that mobs, for example, haven't been harder for quite some time. I'm not sure anyone would suggest "Well just play the game in Greens if you want a challenge then!"

but the way gear treadmills work...is once you get that better gear....the harder enimies are no longer harder....so you're not only back to where you started....everything below those enemies is even easier.Which is how it should stay.