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Future Potential WvW-centric Balance Changes - September 6th 2019


Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Do we expect a 'final' comprehensive list before Tuesday?

And a list of the Tactics rework please! the suspense is killing me...

Tactics rework?

How are we to give feedback without the full context?

One of the original posts alluded to it, but its been edited and I can't find the reference anywhere now.

Nothing has been edited out, it's still in the first post.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Do we expect a 'final' comprehensive list before Tuesday?

And a list of the Tactics rework please! the suspense is killing me...

Tactics rework?

How are we to give feedback without the full context?

One of the original posts alluded to it, but its been edited and I can't find the reference anywhere now.

Nothing has been edited out, it's still in the first post.

Then my question remains. How do we give feedback if we don't have the relevant context? Both warrior specific and in the big picture.

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@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Do we expect a 'final' comprehensive list before Tuesday?

And a list of the Tactics rework please! the suspense is killing me...

Tactics rework?

How are we to give feedback without the full context?

One of the original posts alluded to it, but its been edited and I can't find the reference anywhere now.

Nothing has been edited out, it's still in the first post.

Then my question remains. How do we give feedback if we don't have the relevant context? Both warrior specific and in the big picture.

"They're continuing to balance, including Tactics" -I assume it's just letting us know Tactics is being worked on and there's nothing to comment on yet.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:thank you tons for sharing this with us.

only things that don't make sense is removing aegis from fb f3. also guard needs less retal not more.chaotic interruption is now too unreliable. would make more sense to reduce all weapon cds or give alacrity.

I'm all for giving the warrior group retaliation via warhorn or shouts instead.

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I love the Antitoxin runes change, and agree that this feels like targeting the problem at it's source.

Ranger longbow damage nerf makes me feel a little sad, but won't change anything for me in the long run.

I like warrior warhorn getting some attention but the changes seem weird. I like this iteration of Charge but not sure I'm a fan of Call to Arms (cleanse + vigour + barrier + resistance! seems a little much).

I like increasing the healing power effectiveness on Scourge barrier skills, and (on paper I agree with the people here who have suggested making Sand Savant a purely supportive thing, but I don't know what complications might be preventing this). I'm a little concerned about reducing the boon corruptions but only from the point of view that I would prefer boons to be less prevalent in the game rather than the point of view of specific skill balance.

I also like the proposed changes to Guardian/tomes, and can't help feeling like more needs to be done to tone this class down.

From the perspective of both the guardian boon and necro corrupt changes, I'm not sure which classes might be capable of stepping into the room this creates in large scale battles at this time, but I'm looking forward to that space being made available.

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@Ghos.1326 said:17th if I'm not mistaken.

The 17th is when Bound by Blood is coming out. They usually don't deliver Balance on the same date as LW.I would guess the balance is still atleast a week after the 17th. So probably the 24th or the 1st of next month.I do hope we still get a preview before they drop the changes in the game. Right, @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 ? :wink:

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@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Necromancer

  • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.

Why don't you use your new tech for damage scaling based on range? They closer the enemy is to the center of the shade they more damage they get and the longer the conditions last. This means precise shade placement is important and enables counter play by positioning. It would preserve the functionality of the trait while tweaking it a bit for WvW. It could actually be implemented to a degree in PvE as well as mobs don't tend to move as much so the problem should be manageable for players.

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ENGINEER:

Thanks for listening the feedback of the community, changing antitoxin runes is the better way instead nerfing scrapper.And thank you a lot for nerfing holo, this spec is overperforming.

But in order to tone down elite specs can you buff core engineer a little bit?Improve kits would be the best way, an example which disadvantages grenade kit has:

  • ground targeted (hard to hit fast moving or high mobility classes)
  • 3x retal damage on every skill use
  • bad terrain (grenades sometimes hit ground or small hills which are on the way and doesnt reach the target area)
  • too much anti projectile
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@bluberblasen.9684 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yes pls nerf thief now that its decent 1v1.

it was decent in 1 on 1 pre patch.You must be a very bad player... when you are defending overperforming classes.

Or ur a bad player cuz u cant handle a thief in a 1v1 or bother to learn how to fight it. If I'm a bad player why do I have no issues fighting most thieves pre and post patch on slb,warrio,ele or thief pre and post patch? Hmmm and thief is/widely known as a +1 not a dueler not just cuz its mobility. Some consider fire weaver to be as much condi cheese as condi thief, but I'm sure u dont lol and for the record I'm not calling u a bad player I just disagree with ur statements

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This balance is really quite simple, it's a scourge and firebrand buff.

You need to understand, while most of the scourge changes are good (cutting back some of the boon corrupt and a small amount of dmg)The major problem resides in a 10 target cap.
Target cap being 10 instead of 5 only affects WvW, because pve (should) only use demonic lore, and there are only 5 on a team in pvp.Making scourge shades limit to 5 targets total would resolve the everlasting scourge problem (too much boon corrupt + damage).
You also seem to want to nerf firebrand survivability in small scale fights (removing aegis from ch2). Not good. Hard enough in wvw already.First you nerfed scrapper utility, then healing, now cleanse. It will have nothing left making it worth playing. Need to decide on an identity.

Double firebrand likely becomes meta, as does stacking more scourges. I'm pretty sure this is the opposite of your intention?If you want to make other supports viable, they need to do a) stability, protection, regen, vigor b) healing c) cleansing, at the very least.You need to give every support group stability option, not the same as fb, but something supplementary.
Nerfing firebrand is not the answer, because you need critical boons, cleanse, and healing to have wvw zerg fights.If you nerf support, we'll just end up pirate shipping on high damage builds. (another miserable meta no one wants).Hope balance can move in the right direction, because it's mostly there (minus a few critical flaws).

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Some thoughts on how you can make other supports viable.

Druid; Larger CA AoE, prot/vigor/regen application. Make seeds cleanse more condis, larger aoe. CA5 party stab, and elite glpyh aoe stab outside CA, personal stab inside CA. Staff needs wider aoe on auto.

Revenant; Tablet needs much larger aoe for how clunky it is. Make the effect like wash the pain away, with less healing farther away. 240 radius large, 360 medium, 600 radius small heal. Same for cleanses on it. Give aoe stab on blowing up the tablet (ventari elite). Tablet movement aoe prot, vigor, regen.

Tempest; AoE stab on overload earth, aoe stability on shouts. More stacks on Rebound! than others.

Scrapper; Decide on an identity. Could use more utility, or more baked in cleanse (post-antitoxin nerf, which is the only reason it's good in wvw).

Chrono & Warrior; totally unworkable at this time, chrono needs a rework or revert the more recent changes just to begin balancing it. Warrior I'm at a loss for.

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This post confirms for me this "devs" aren't even playing the game, or at least watching it from somewhere.Thank you for letting us know, now i can finally forget my hopes and leave this mess of a game.

Engineer

  • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.

This changes nothing at all!

  • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.

this skill shouldn't exist at all, stealth was tactical, short and about positioning (veils, mass invisibility) this kind of stealth is an abuse, and it doesn't even have a visual tell in order to provide counter play. Plus what do you actually expect to change because of 15 seconds????

  • Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.

the least op skill holos had, why do you change this when that class has so many other things busted???

  • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.

This should have been like this since the start.

  • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.

Why scrappers have barrier? my god, so many heals and natural sustain and you keep on going.

  • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

So we are still nerfing stealth? didn't we have enough of this already?

Guardian

  • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.

Completely irrelevant, won't change a thing, just an extra fb for subgroup

  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

irrelevant, but i think it's a step in the right direction

  • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.

This one is a joke, really 1 less condition? do you think that will change anything? scrappers limited every condi zerg anyway....

  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.

completely irrelevant

  • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

meh...

Mesmer

  • Illusion of Life: ~~Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW ~~ Reduce the invulnerability period on revived allies. Improve the smart targeting on this skill so it can't fail in big group situations where there is someone downed and lots of people near them.

THIS SKILL DOESN'T WORK!!! re work it completely, its useless, warclaws insta killing downed players, all the massive braindead aoe spam, plus that stupid casting time, tell me anet why guardians and warriors have skills that revive players in a second without casting and we don't???

  • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

irrelevant.

  • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
  • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

irrelevant.

GIVE US CHRONO BACK NOW! WE HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO IN ZERG FIGHTS AND THIS WON'T CHANGE A SINGLE THING!!!!!!

Necromancer

  • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.

irrelevant.

  • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
  • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
  • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
  • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.
  • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

I don't play necro, but most of us hate them because of the massive aoe spam they got, plus the insane amount of barrier it can provide, it seems you got one right, but i feel it won't be enough, and won't change a thing until range or aoe are heavily nerfed.

Ranger

  • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.6-0.8 in WvW only.

Rangers as mesmers have no role available in zergs (the ones that could work are so heavily outshined by other specs its useless) yet you will ignore this problem as you ignore the disaster you did with chrono, and the mesmer's feedback asking for it to come back as it was.

Revenant

  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.
  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

irrelevant. Do you plan on changing something on renegade? because that trash spec has an autoplay feature, most renegades just spam their skills and afk between the backlines.

Thief

  • Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 2 seconds in PvP & WvW. Reduce the internal cooldown from 5s to 2s in PvP & WvW.

condi thief is worst than ci mirage, yet we still have a major problem, stupid permastealth DE, but no wonders you will choose to ignore the POF specs problems yet again.

Warrior

  • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in PvE and PvP and 10% in WvW in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
  • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
  • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
  • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

won't comment on this one.

Thanks once again for your feedback and for keeping things focused.

Sincerely,~Irenio

What i feel from this is again you are distracting players, making several little changes that won't affect gameplay at all whatsoever, yet you keep ignoring the elephant in the room, most of pof specs are untouched, overperforming, and ruinin build variation, and the fun aspect because most of this specs are boring as hell to play as or against, and buffing them more, or nerfing everything else won't change boring mechanics.

Also i feel you are no longer playing the game, and you keep ignoring playerbase and feedback, your forums are shady, only activity we see is store upgrades or uncalled bans. Reddit forum has more devs responses.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yes pls nerf thief now that its decent 1v1.

it was decent in 1 on 1 pre patch.You must be a very bad player... when you are defending overperforming classes.

Or ur a bad player cuz u cant handle a thief in a 1v1 or bother to learn how to fight it. If I'm a bad player why do I have no issues fighting most thieves pre and post patch on slb,warrio,ele or thief pre and post patch? Hmmm and thief is/widely known as a +1 not a dueler not just cuz its mobility. Some consider fire weaver to be as much condi cheese as condi thief, but I'm sure u dont lol and for the record I'm not calling u a bad player I just disagree with ur statements

Sorry broI am talking wvw fiew not pvp fiew

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Please can we change the following skills:

Hammer - Warrior

BURST:Stun 1s > Launch 0mBurst levels increase in damage and apply Cripple lvl 2, Cripple and Weakness lvl 3

Stun makes no sense logically , you're smashing the hammer down onto the ground stunning them, surely the impact would actually launch them or knock them down.

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