Mesmers should not have stealth

[ROMANG.1903]

Stealth makes mesmers confusing beyond what is healthy for the game, it makes them nothing more thieves with more confusing spells. Mesmers should rely on illusions, not stealth.

[Xstein.2187]

Elementalists shouldn't be able to attune to so many different elements for a weapon. It makes their variety confusing beyond what is healthy for the game.

Think about it. Everyone gets 5 skills per weapon with two weapons for 10 skills total. Elementalists get 4 DIFFERENT SETS OF 5 FOR 20 SKILLS!!!!!!This gives them twice as much variety as other classes. It makes them no more then Necros with even more confusing spells.

This should be toned down to no more then 3 elements as it is still 50% more weapon variety then other classes.Anything more is far too confusing and unhealthy for the game!

[Castiel.9048]

@Xstein.2187 said:Elementalists shouldn't be able to attune to so many different elements for a weapon. It makes their variety confusing beyond what is healthy for the game.

Think about it. Everyone gets 5 skills per weapon with two weapons for 10 skills total. Elementalists get 4 DIFFERENT SETS OF 5 FOR 20 SKILLS!!!!!!This gives them twice as much variety as other classes. It makes them no more then Necros with even more confusing spells.

This should be toned down to no more then 3 elements as it is still 50% more weapon variety then other classes.Anything more is far too confusing and unhealthy for the game!

Quality over quantity. You are also supporting the argument because Elementalists would love nothing more than to blindly press 1/F1 skills and be meta like so many builds today. Instead we have to be Mozart. Furthermore, we have no weapon swap to balance the quantity, which is debatable.

But sadly, Elementalists have no reveal so your argument is weak.So yes, please remove stealth from Mesmers .

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Stealth should not be on game at all, it's a idiot mechanic that ruins every game it is on, this is especially true on gw2 a game that runs stealth without any drawback.

That being said this is a l2p issue, no one has any problem detecting the real mesmer.

As for ele Mozart stuff, as someone that plays ele as a second profession, more buttons!= harder to play.The only ele build that requires some skill degree is FA, apart from that is leaps easier than mesmer.

[Castiel.9048]

Exaggerations should be limited.As someone that plays Ele as a primary profession, I didn't state that more buttons = harder to play.I stated that we have to be Mozart because we have to constantly attune to maximize the respective attributes needed for an encounter.This is def. not required for other professions, and by far requires more thought and planning than Mesmer, which I play tertiary.Leaps. Interesting.

Stealth should have a reveal cooldown, such as when once attacked or skill executed, stealth cannot be cleared until encounter is over.

[Xstein.2187]

@Castiel.9048 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:Elementalists shouldn't be able to attune to so many different elements for a weapon. It makes their variety confusing beyond what is healthy for the game.

Think about it. Everyone gets 5 skills per weapon with two weapons for 10 skills total. Elementalists get

4 DIFFERENT SETS OF 5 FOR 20 SKILLS!!!!!!

This gives them twice as much variety as other classes. It makes them no more then Necros with even more confusing spells.

This should be toned down to no more then 3 elements as it is still 50% more weapon variety then other classes.Anything more is far too confusing and unhealthy for the game!

Quality over quantity. You are also supporting the argument because Elementalists would love nothing more than to blindly press 1/F1 skills and be meta like so many builds today. Instead we have to be Mozart. Furthermore, we have no weapon swap to balance the quantity, which is debatable.

But sadly, Elementalists have no reveal so your argument is weak.So yes, please remove stealth from Mesmers .

Nope, even without weapon swap, ele still has 2x the amount of weapon skill variation and mesmers absolutely can not prevent eles from switching atunements, can they?

Note: I obviously wrote my first post to show how absurd the OP's post is without quantifiable data to back up such accusations. I only brought up ele since the OP has recently created a post asking for eles to be buffed. If you don't like people asking for ele to be nerfed, then start complaining about the actual types of arguments being used, regardless of what class such argument is used for or against. A bad argument with out evidence is never good, not matter what it is used for. . . . . period.

[Castiel.9048]

@Xstein.2187 said:

@Castiel.9048 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:Elementalists shouldn't be able to attune to so many different elements for a weapon. It makes their variety confusing beyond what is healthy for the game.

Think about it. Everyone gets 5 skills per weapon with two weapons for 10 skills total. Elementalists get

4 DIFFERENT SETS OF 5 FOR 20 SKILLS!!!!!!

This gives them twice as much variety as other classes. It makes them no more then Necros with even more confusing spells.

This should be toned down to no more then 3 elements as it is still 50% more weapon variety then other classes.Anything more is far too confusing and unhealthy for the game!

Quality over quantity. You are also supporting the argument because Elementalists would love nothing more than to blindly press 1/F1 skills and be meta like so many builds today. Instead we have to be Mozart. Furthermore, we have no weapon swap to balance the quantity, which is debatable.

But sadly, Elementalists have no reveal so your argument is weak.So yes, please remove stealth from Mesmers .

Nope, even without weapon swap, ele still has 2x the amount of weapon skill variation and mesmers absolutely can not prevent eles from switching atunements, can they?

Note: I obviously wrote my first post to show how absurd the OP's post is without quantifiable data to back up such accusations. I only brought up ele since the OP has recently created a post asking for eles to be buffed. If you don't like people asking for ele to be nerfed, then start complaining about the actual types of arguments being used, regardless of what class such argument is used for or against. A bad argument with out evidence is never good, not matter what it is used for. . . . . period.

This is difficult as I feel like I am hitting a soundboard, but I'll just emphasize some enjoyable interest.Mesmers have 2x the battle variations and eles absolutely can not prevent mesmers from switching weapons, can they?

Note: Stealth is a hot topic right now. Check the PVP forums. OP has a good thought to try to reshape the applicability of stealth around the profession. This has nothing about nerfing, just simple facts against a bad argument....period.

[solemn.9670]

@Castiel.9048 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:Elementalists shouldn't be able to attune to so many different elements for a weapon. It makes their variety confusing beyond what is healthy for the game.

Think about it. Everyone gets 5 skills per weapon with two weapons for 10 skills total. Elementalists get

4 DIFFERENT SETS OF 5 FOR 20 SKILLS!!!!!!

This gives them twice as much variety as other classes. It makes them no more then Necros with even more confusing spells.

This should be toned down to no more then 3 elements as it is still 50% more weapon variety then other classes.Anything more is far too confusing and unhealthy for the game!

Quality over quantity. You are also supporting the argument because Elementalists would love nothing more than to blindly press 1/F1 skills and be meta like so many builds today. Instead we have to be Mozart. Furthermore, we have no weapon swap to balance the quantity, which is debatable.

But sadly, Elementalists have no reveal so your argument is weak.So yes, please remove stealth from Mesmers .

edit: see my response below. My bad.

---

Amen. A complete non-sequitur about elementalist that has nothing to do with the problems surrounding Mesmer class.Not only that but a weak argument as well - ele is pretty hard, in general at least. It's easy to be mediocre at tho. So a lot of reasonably talented players end up wrongly assuming that they know what they're talking about after playing ele for a total of 200 hours or less. Some people are really terrible in one regard though - the ones who play for many, many hours, but still don't understand and want to enforce their wrong opinion on everyone else. I don't know if this is what it is at play here but it's something I like to remind people to keep in mind when assessing responses like these.

Back on subject.Does mesmer need stealth to be removed?

I think mesmer needs less f** clone builds. The clone generation (edit: overall/general) is fine but niche builds that can generate WAY TOO MANY are, well ... generating way too many

[Xstein.2187]

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@Castiel.9048 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:Elementalists shouldn't be able to attune to so many different elements for a weapon. It makes their variety confusing beyond what is healthy for the game.

Think about it. Everyone gets 5 skills per weapon with two weapons for 10 skills total. Elementalists get

4 DIFFERENT SETS OF 5 FOR 20 SKILLS!!!!!!

This gives them twice as much variety as other classes. It makes them no more then Necros with even more confusing spells.

This should be toned down to no more then 3 elements as it is still 50% more weapon variety then other classes.Anything more is far too confusing and unhealthy for the game!

Quality over quantity. You are also supporting the argument because Elementalists would love nothing more than to blindly press 1/F1 skills and be meta like so many builds today. Instead we have to be Mozart. Furthermore, we have no weapon swap to balance the quantity, which is debatable.

But sadly, Elementalists have no reveal so your argument is weak.So yes, please remove stealth from Mesmers .

Amen.A complete non-sequitur about elementalist that has nothing to do with the problems surrounding Mesmer class.Not only that but a weak argument as well - ele is pretty hard, in general at least. It's easy to be mediocre at tho. So a lot of reasonably talented players end up wrongly assuming that they know what they're talking about after playing ele for a total of 200 hours or less. Some people are really terrible in one regard though - the ones who play for many, many hours, but still don't understand and want to enforce their wrong opinion on everyone else. I don't know if this is what it is at play here but it's something I like to remind people to keep in mind when assessing responses like these.

Back on subject.Does mesmer need stealth to be removed?

I think mesmer needs less f

**

clone builds. The clone generation (edit: overall/general) is fine but niche builds that can generate WAY TOO MANY are, well ... generating way too many

Once again, I know it is non-sequitur. That is why I said it, to show how the Op's initial argument reasons are flawed by simplifying the argument just to what they said.

Stealth is not a thief only mechanic. Their mechanic is initiative and steal. That is why mesmer has had some stealth since launch and why ranger and scrapper have stealth.

p.s. I explained that that argument was supposed to be absurd on purpose as explained in the note section of my last post before yours. However, I can understand if you missed it.

[Xstein.2187]

@Castiel.9048 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:

@Castiel.9048 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:Elementalists shouldn't be able to attune to so many different elements for a weapon. It makes their variety confusing beyond what is healthy for the game.

Think about it. Everyone gets 5 skills per weapon with two weapons for 10 skills total. Elementalists get

4 DIFFERENT SETS OF 5 FOR 20 SKILLS!!!!!!

This gives them twice as much variety as other classes. It makes them no more then Necros with even more confusing spells.

This should be toned down to no more then 3 elements as it is still 50% more weapon variety then other classes.Anything more is far too confusing and unhealthy for the game!

Quality over quantity. You are also supporting the argument because Elementalists would love nothing more than to blindly press 1/F1 skills and be meta like so many builds today. Instead we have to be Mozart. Furthermore, we have no weapon swap to balance the quantity, which is debatable.

But sadly, Elementalists have no reveal so your argument is weak.So yes, please remove stealth from Mesmers .

Nope, even without weapon swap, ele still has 2x the amount of weapon skill variation and mesmers absolutely can not prevent eles from switching atunements, can they?

Note: I obviously wrote my first post to show how absurd the OP's post is without quantifiable data to back up such accusations. I only brought up ele since the OP has recently created a post asking for eles to be buffed. If you don't like people asking for ele to be nerfed, then start complaining about the actual types of arguments being used, regardless of what class such argument is used for or against. A bad argument with out evidence is never good, not matter what it is used for. . . . . period.

This is difficult as I feel like I am hitting a soundboard, but I'll just emphasize some enjoyable interest.Mesmers have 2x the battle variations and eles absolutely can not prevent mesmers from switching weapons, can they?

Note: Stealth is a hot topic right now. Check the PVP forums. OP has a good thought to try to reshape the applicability of stealth around the profession. This has nothing about nerfing, just simple facts against a bad argument....period.

"Mesmers have 2x the battle variations"??Prove it, don't just tell me. You think mesmer have 2x the battle variations or whatever that means then give me the numbers.Stealth has reveal and you still take damage in stealth. This is counterplay.If you have a problem specifically with ele and stealth, then why not ask for a reveal skill on ele?

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@Xstein.2187 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@Castiel.9048 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:Elementalists shouldn't be able to attune to so many different elements for a weapon. It makes their variety confusing beyond what is healthy for the game.

Think about it. Everyone gets 5 skills per weapon with two weapons for 10 skills total. Elementalists get

4 DIFFERENT SETS OF 5 FOR 20 SKILLS!!!!!!

This gives them twice as much variety as other classes. It makes them no more then Necros with even more confusing spells.

This should be toned down to no more then 3 elements as it is still 50% more weapon variety then other classes.Anything more is far too confusing and unhealthy for the game!

Quality over quantity. You are also supporting the argument because Elementalists would love nothing more than to blindly press 1/F1 skills and be meta like so many builds today. Instead we have to be Mozart. Furthermore, we have no weapon swap to balance the quantity, which is debatable.

But sadly, Elementalists have no reveal so your argument is weak.So yes, please remove stealth from Mesmers .

Amen.A complete non-sequitur about elementalist that has nothing to do with the problems surrounding Mesmer class.Not only that but a weak argument as well - ele is pretty hard, in general at least. It's easy to be mediocre at tho. So a lot of reasonably talented players end up wrongly assuming that they know what they're talking about after playing ele for a total of 200 hours or less. Some people are really terrible in one regard though - the ones who play for many, many hours, but still don't understand and want to enforce their wrong opinion on everyone else. I don't know if this is what it is at play here but it's something I like to remind people to keep in mind when assessing responses like these.

Back on subject.Does mesmer need stealth to be removed?

I think mesmer needs less f

**

clone builds. The clone generation (edit: overall/general) is fine but niche builds that can generate WAY TOO MANY are, well ... generating way too many

No kitten sherlock, once again, I know it is non-sequitur. That is why I made it, to show how the Op's initial argument reasons are flawed by simplifying the argument just to what they said.

Stealth is not a thief only mechanic. Their mechanic is initiative and steal. That is why mesmer has had some stealth since launch and why ranger and scrapper have stealth. It is almost like 75% of people on the forums don't know how to read or tell when someone is being sarcastic.

Dude, be an adult and be straight with people. Your disrespect is wasting everyone's time and making things more hostile.

---

Personally I don't much like stealth in this game. It is way too binary, and easily waltzes into OP territory. However, I recognize that it is necessary for mesmers to be duplicitous. If mesmers didn't have a way to disappear, then all they would be is weaker battlemages that make ignore-able doppelgangers. To get rid of stealth, you'd have to make it so mesmers randomly swap position with their clones whenever they'd use one of these stealth skills (a la mirage deceptions), which would be jarring to play and hard to manage.

As much as I don't like stealth, the game is built around it. For better or worse, stealth is here to stay.

[Xstein.2187]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@Castiel.9048 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:Elementalists shouldn't be able to attune to so many different elements for a weapon. It makes their variety confusing beyond what is healthy for the game.

Think about it. Everyone gets 5 skills per weapon with two weapons for 10 skills total. Elementalists get

4 DIFFERENT SETS OF 5 FOR 20 SKILLS!!!!!!

This gives them twice as much variety as other classes. It makes them no more then Necros with even more confusing spells.

This should be toned down to no more then 3 elements as it is still 50% more weapon variety then other classes.Anything more is far too confusing and unhealthy for the game!

Quality over quantity. You are also supporting the argument because Elementalists would love nothing more than to blindly press 1/F1 skills and be meta like so many builds today. Instead we have to be Mozart. Furthermore, we have no weapon swap to balance the quantity, which is debatable.

But sadly, Elementalists have no reveal so your argument is weak.So yes, please remove stealth from Mesmers .

Amen.A complete non-sequitur about elementalist that has nothing to do with the problems surrounding Mesmer class.Not only that but a weak argument as well - ele is pretty hard, in general at least. It's easy to be mediocre at tho. So a lot of reasonably talented players end up wrongly assuming that they know what they're talking about after playing ele for a total of 200 hours or less. Some people are really terrible in one regard though - the ones who play for many, many hours, but still don't understand and want to enforce their wrong opinion on everyone else. I don't know if this is what it is at play here but it's something I like to remind people to keep in mind when assessing responses like these.

Back on subject.Does mesmer need stealth to be removed?

I think mesmer needs less f

**

clone builds. The clone generation (edit: overall/general) is fine but niche builds that can generate WAY TOO MANY are, well ... generating way too many

No kitten sherlock, once again, I know it is non-sequitur. That is why I made it, to show how the Op's initial argument reasons are flawed by simplifying the argument just to what they said.

Stealth is not a thief only mechanic. Their mechanic is initiative and steal. That is why mesmer has had some stealth since launch and why ranger and scrapper have stealth. It is almost like 75% of people on the forums don't know how to read or tell when someone is being sarcastic.

Dude, be an adult and be straight with people. Your disrespect is wasting everyone's time and making things more hostile.

---

Personally I don't much like stealth in this game. It is way too binary, and easily waltzes into OP territory. However, I recognize that it is necessary for mesmers to be duplicitous. If mesmers didn't have a way to disappear, then all they would be is weaker battlemages that make ignore-able doppelgangers. To get rid of stealth, you'd have to make it so mesmers randomly swap position with their clones whenever they'd use one of these stealth skills (a la mirage deceptions), which would be jarring to play and hard to manage.

As much as I don't like stealth, the game is built around it. For better or worse, stealth is here to stay.

I appologize. @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" Sorry, I just got frustrated since you called my argument non-sequitur when I wrote before you posted that it was meant to be that way on purpose and what the meaning behind saying it was. It was also frustrating when multiple people misinterpreted it in the first place.

I also admit that I get frustrated when people have argued until once mesmer only mechanics like alacrity and portal were given to other classes and then others pop in and say another mechanic that mesmer has had since launch should now be thief only. It feels like a another big wad of spit on the face when it feels like mesmer has been kicked around for months already (by kicked around, I'm not talking about OPness for which it rightfully deserved, but about loosing build and trait variety, nerfs to some core traits caused by specializations, some traits becoming useless, and revamps of chrono that made it once again the only class that can't use it's special mechanic except in very specific circumstances, eps in WvW).

I also realize that some people become frustrated by stealth or confused. However, it is stated on the website on the mesmer class description that, "They weave deception magic that seeks to confound, disorient and dumbfound their enemies." Additionally, I feel like confusions, discernment, and targeting abilities are all qualities that people can become better at and improve as players. Therefore, I believe they make for good skill ceilings to strive for.

This is the play style I have enjoyed playing on gw2 for many years from all the highs and lows. If you think a specific mesmer build is OP, I think that is a worthy discussion. You think stealth is OP or doesn't have enough counter play? I think that is a worthy discussion. However, plz consider that some people have enjoyed this confusion oriented play style for many years, regardless of how OP or non-OP some builds have been. Therefore, plz don't specifically target mesmers about a multi-class skill mechanic simply due to its play style. Lets plz keep those distinguishments separate.

However, additionally if you think this is the case, plz treat all classes equally that have stealth: thief, engi, ranger, etc.Thank you,

[ROMANG.1903]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@Castiel.9048 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:Elementalists shouldn't be able to attune to so many different elements for a weapon. It makes their variety confusing beyond what is healthy for the game.

Think about it. Everyone gets 5 skills per weapon with two weapons for 10 skills total. Elementalists get

4 DIFFERENT SETS OF 5 FOR 20 SKILLS!!!!!!

This gives them twice as much variety as other classes. It makes them no more then Necros with even more confusing spells.

This should be toned down to no more then 3 elements as it is still 50% more weapon variety then other classes.Anything more is far too confusing and unhealthy for the game!

Quality over quantity. You are also supporting the argument because Elementalists would love nothing more than to blindly press 1/F1 skills and be meta like so many builds today. Instead we have to be Mozart. Furthermore, we have no weapon swap to balance the quantity, which is debatable.

But sadly, Elementalists have no reveal so your argument is weak.So yes, please remove stealth from Mesmers .

Amen.A complete non-sequitur about elementalist that has nothing to do with the problems surrounding Mesmer class.Not only that but a weak argument as well - ele is pretty hard, in general at least. It's easy to be mediocre at tho. So a lot of reasonably talented players end up wrongly assuming that they know what they're talking about after playing ele for a total of 200 hours or less. Some people are really terrible in one regard though - the ones who play for many, many hours, but still don't understand and want to enforce their wrong opinion on everyone else. I don't know if this is what it is at play here but it's something I like to remind people to keep in mind when assessing responses like these.

Back on subject.Does mesmer need stealth to be removed?

I think mesmer needs less f

**

clone builds. The clone generation (edit: overall/general) is fine but niche builds that can generate WAY TOO MANY are, well ... generating way too many

No kitten sherlock, once again, I know it is non-sequitur. That is why I made it, to show how the Op's initial argument reasons are flawed by simplifying the argument just to what they said.

Stealth is not a thief only mechanic. Their mechanic is initiative and steal. That is why mesmer has had some stealth since launch and why ranger and scrapper have stealth. It is almost like 75% of people on the forums don't know how to read or tell when someone is being sarcastic.

Dude, be an adult and be straight with people. Your disrespect is wasting everyone's time and making things more hostile.

---

Personally I don't much like stealth in this game. It is way too binary, and easily waltzes into OP territory. However, I recognize that it is necessary for mesmers to be duplicitous. If mesmers didn't have a way to disappear, then all they would be is weaker battlemages that make ignore-able doppelgangers. To get rid of stealth, you'd have to make it so mesmers randomly swap position with their clones whenever they'd use one of these stealth skills (a la mirage deceptions), which would be jarring to play and hard to manage.

As much as I don't like stealth, the game is built around it. For better or worse, stealth is here to stay.

There are abilities that allow the mesmer to swap position with an illusion. Skills that currently apply stealth could be replaced with this kind of mechanics?

[phokus.8934]

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@Castiel.9048 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:Elementalists shouldn't be able to attune to so many different elements for a weapon. It makes their variety confusing beyond what is healthy for the game.

Think about it. Everyone gets 5 skills per weapon with two weapons for 10 skills total. Elementalists get

4 DIFFERENT SETS OF 5 FOR 20 SKILLS!!!!!!

This gives them twice as much variety as other classes. It makes them no more then Necros with even more confusing spells.

This should be toned down to no more then 3 elements as it is still 50% more weapon variety then other classes.Anything more is far too confusing and unhealthy for the game!

Quality over quantity. You are also supporting the argument because Elementalists would love nothing more than to blindly press 1/F1 skills and be meta like so many builds today. Instead we have to be Mozart. Furthermore, we have no weapon swap to balance the quantity, which is debatable.

But sadly, Elementalists have no reveal so your argument is weak.So yes, please remove stealth from Mesmers .

Amen.A complete non-sequitur about elementalist that has nothing to do with the problems surrounding Mesmer class.Not only that but a weak argument as well - ele is pretty hard, in general at least. It's easy to be mediocre at tho. So a lot of reasonably talented players end up wrongly assuming that they know what they're talking about after playing ele for a total of 200 hours or less. Some people are really terrible in one regard though - the ones who play for many, many hours, but still don't understand and want to enforce their wrong opinion on everyone else. I don't know if this is what it is at play here but it's something I like to remind people to keep in mind when assessing responses like these.

Back on subject.Does mesmer need stealth to be removed?

I think mesmer needs less f

**

clone builds. The clone generation (edit: overall/general) is fine but niche builds that can generate WAY TOO MANY are, well ... generating way too many

No kitten sherlock, once again, I know it is non-sequitur. That is why I made it, to show how the Op's initial argument reasons are flawed by simplifying the argument just to what they said.

Stealth is not a thief only mechanic. Their mechanic is initiative and steal. That is why mesmer has had some stealth since launch and why ranger and scrapper have stealth. It is almost like 75% of people on the forums don't know how to read or tell when someone is being sarcastic.

Dude, be an adult and be straight with people. Your disrespect is wasting everyone's time and making things more hostile.

---

Personally I don't much like stealth in this game. It is way too binary, and easily waltzes into OP territory. However, I recognize that it is necessary for mesmers to be duplicitous. If mesmers didn't have a way to disappear, then all they would be is weaker battlemages that make ignore-able doppelgangers. To get rid of stealth, you'd have to make it so mesmers randomly swap position with their clones whenever they'd use one of these stealth skills (a la mirage deceptions), which would be jarring to play and hard to manage.

As much as I don't like stealth, the game is built around it. For better or worse, stealth is here to stay.

There are abilities that allow the mesmer to swap position with an illusion. Skills that currently apply stealth could be replaced with this kind of mechanics?You sound like you don’t know anything about Mesmer clones and how the class even plays.

[viquing.8254]

@op :

• Guardian should not have aegis.
• Warrior should not have passive sustain.
• Rev shoumd not have riposting shadow.
• Ele should not have mist form.
• Nec should not have 2nd life bar.
• Thief should not have evade or no stealth.
• Engi should not have stealth.
• Ranger should not have tealth.

What else ?Everyone should die when targeting in 10 sec so you feel good ?

[Hot Boy.7138]

I've been playing mesmer since the first day and I gotta agree with OP. Mesmer should have to choose between having stealth or clones. It shouldn't have access to both.

[ROMANG.1903]

@viquing.8254 said:@op :

• Guardian should not have aegis.
• Warrior should not have passive sustain.
• Rev shoumd not have riposting shadow.
• Ele should not have mist form.
• Nec should not have 2nd life bar.
• Thief should not have evade or no stealth.
• Engi should not have stealth.
• Ranger should not have tealth.

What else ?Everyone should die when targeting in 10 sec so you feel good ?

I was going to answer all of this but I think you already know why this is different. Mesmers are confusing by nature. For every class with stealth, you always know it when they are in stealth, and it lasts for a set duration with clear rules. They are invisible, but you know that they are.When it comes to mesmer, you never know if the character is in stealth, if he's one of the clones, if he's even still there or if he teleported super far away... Now it might just be manageable if all of these parameters didn't change literally every few seconds. Everytime the mesmer spawns new clones, you have to guess which one is the real one, or if the real one is even visible. And to complete all of this, mesmers don't have to sacrifice any damage to get so confusing, which makes them able to burst you down while you're still looking for the real one.

[Gryxis.6950]

When it comes to mesmer, you never know if the character is in stealth, if he's one of the clones, if he's even still there or if he teleported super far away... Now it might just be manageable if all of these parameters didn't change literally every few seconds. Everytime the mesmer spawns new clones, you have to guess which one is the real one, or if the real one is even visible.

Spawning a new clone doesn't remove targetting. Unless the mesmer is a mirage and is actively trying to look like one of his clones, it's really not that hard to detect him. And if he's actively trying to look like one of his clones, he loses quite a bit of damage and a lot of mobility until he stops. I think you just need to train yourself against mesmers a bit more, it's clearly not the hardest class to face anymore (but not the easiest either i'll grant you that)

[Delofasht.4231]

Sounds like a problem with clones rather than stealth. Clones are not even deceiving to anyone who knows any of the various tells that separate the Mesmer from them. It requires some learning and some awareness of when you have lost target. Or you can just roll massive AoE and spam it on the clones and kill them all... you know, like every other profession has access to.

Reworking clones to be immune to damage and do none themselves but also not have a health bar would be optimal, damage could all be moved to the Mesmer themself instead. Only major change needed would be that of making target break skills for Mesmer make their health bar disappear for a couple seconds.

[Antycypator.9874]

Mesmers ARE like thieves, it's all about illusions, to trick people, confuse them, make them think "tf is happening?". Stealth is some kind of illusionary magic. I belive mesmers utilize illusion to stealth themselves, it's not shadow magic like thieves do.

So... removing stealth from mesmer would be like removing symbols from guardian.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Castiel.9048 said:Exaggerations should be limited.As someone that plays Ele as a primary profession, I didn't state that more buttons = harder to play.I stated that we have to be Mozart because we have to constantly attune to maximize the respective attributes needed for an encounter.This is def. not required for other professions, and by far requires more thought and planning than Mesmer, which I play tertiary.Leaps. Interesting.

Stealth should have a reveal cooldown, such as when once attacked or skill executed, stealth cannot be cleared until encounter is over.

seems like you dont get whats the goal of mesmer if you think ele takes more thought to play, :D

[solemn.9670]

@Xstein.2187 said:p.s. I explained that that argument was supposed to be absurd on purpose as explained in the note section of my last post before yours. However, I can understand if you missed it.Sorry, thank you for being polite, I was only skimming this thread when I posted that. My mistake.

@phokus.8934 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:There are abilities that allow the mesmer to swap position with an illusion. Skills that currently apply stealth could be replaced with this kind of mechanics?You sound like you don’t know anything about Mesmer clones and how the class even plays.

What am I missing here? Mesmer does have a skill that does this and it's very popular.

[Leonidrex.5649]

the sheer fact that people want ILLUSIONIST to lost stealth is just mind WREAKING, yes pun intended.

[ROMANG.1903]

@"Antycypator.9874" said:Mesmers ARE like thieves, it's all about illusions, to trick people, confuse them, make them think "tf is happening?". Stealth is some kind of illusionary magic. I belive mesmers utilize illusion to stealth themselves, it's not shadow magic like thieves do.

So... removing stealth from mesmer would be like removing symbols from guardian.

Lore shouldn't be a reason to give any class too many tools. One thing I would be okay with, would be a shatter skill that applies stealth. That would force the mesmer to choose in which way to be confusing. The whole issue is the combination of the two, having several models with no way of telling if the real one is even here.

@Delofasht.4231 said:Sounds like a problem with clones rather than stealth. Clones are not even deceiving to anyone who knows any of the various tells that separate the Mesmer from them. It requires some learning and some awareness of when you have lost target. Or you can just roll massive AoE and spam it on the clones and kill them all... you know, like every other profession has access to.

Clones are easily identifyable in a short time. But the mesmer spawns several of them and goes in and out of stealth evey second, and doesn't have to sacrifice any burst potential to do so. Every other class has to choose between offense and defense, the mesmer doesn't. And if your solution to counter the clones is to waste your damaging abilities on them, well, I think you don't exactly grasp what a counter is supposed to be.

[Magolith.9412]

@ROMANG.1903 said:But the mesmer ... goes in and out of stealth evey second

lol