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What are your thoughts about the incoming nerfs to the Longbow Auto?


anduriell.6280

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I mean, just really, would it affect so much in practice if the AA damage is nerfed by 11.1% (at maximum range) ~ 14.3% (at minimum range) in WvW only as announced?

While I do not main ranger, and rarely play as one in WvW, I find what Longbow AA could provide trivia, other than hunting down escaping enemies without LoS blockage, which to me means win by forfeit already, not to mention not like it was ever easy to escape 1500+ range anyway.

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@alain.1659 @"Virtuality.8351"

It's a good idea to bail on the longbow use with Druid nowadays. In WvW, you want Staff & Axe/Axe for several reasons. You can actually break Druid and make it severely overpowered in WvW, with the available pve gear selections. It can be a strong 1vX in the hands of the right player.

Try this:

Wilderness: 1 2 2Beastmaster: 3 1 3Druid: 1 1 2

Harrier on armor/weapons, Assassin's on backpiece/trinkets, Superior Runes of The Pack.Axe/Axe = Energy & Air SigilsStaff = Energy & Cleansing "You need Cleansing for escaping immobs on demand"

6: Troll7: Protect Me8: Sig of Stone9: Lightning Reflex0: Strength of Pack

Food: Any 40% endurance regen foodUtility: Masterful Writ Of Accuracy +200 precision "It's not as expensive as you'd think."

This results in a Druid that has as many dodge rolls as frequently as a Daredevil has, with the ferocity of marauder amulet, with 75% or higher critical hit chance, and more than enough boon duration & heal stat to make the build sustainy in 1vX. The best part about this build is that it is one of those rare build archetypes that actually has enough anti-projectile hate skills to deal with roaming DPS Soulbeasts & Deadeyes.

I may make a video of this actually. This build ended up working great not only in roaming, but also when jumping into zerg play.

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@KeyOrion.9506 said:

@KeyOrion.9506 said:A ranger that can't pick off his targets. A Necromancer well can be launched at the longest range of a Ranger now. And the wells are doing 15k-20k dmg per second PULSES...how is this even closely fair for the class that was SUPPOSED to be the long range class of the game? We try to keep combat ranged, and the necro's try to get up in your face. Seriously WHY would we want to close with a CONDI WELL OUTPUTTING 15k-20k DAMAGE PER GOD kitten SECOND ANET!

What are you talking about? Well of suffering has a coeff of 3 over 6 hits. That is only 0.5 coeff per pulse. Meanwhile longbow auto is 0.7-0.9. Power soul beast has way more modifiers than necro. How the heck would necro hit 15k-20k per pulse without sic'em? Also wells are 900 range. So are shades. Longbow is "1500" but actually is closer to 1800 range. That's almost double the range of necro wells/shades.
A MAX dps power reaper vs a golem is only doing maybe 10k per tick with the power well and the power well does twice as much damage as the condi well. There is no way a necro hits you for 15k with well of suffering unless you are naked.

Anyhow, if they want to give ranger a spot in WvW Zergs, I think the best shot is to buff SB group stability to be a contender in replacing FB in some subgroups. The only other group stability right now aside from guardian is either mantra of concentration mesmer (not long enough duration) or dwarven road on rev (which just sucks at 1 stack). Shared Dolyak stance is actually good and almost comparable to stand your ground (especially after it gets nerfed next patch). 6 second base stability, 5-6 stacks each. Stand your ground is 10 targets but will be nerfed to 3 stacks soon. So SB has the only real contender for group stab for WvW.
SB just needs 1 more source of group stability.

I would do this by basically copy-pasting shared Dolyak stance onto Unflinching Fortitude. Remove the 100% dmg reduction and make it aoe stability + immunity to chill, cripple and immobilize. So only SB (not core ranger which makes it easier to balance), only when merged with a stout pet (easy to balance again) has two sources of group stability. Furthermore, the stability + immunity to chill, cripple and immobilize give SB an "unstoppable movement" niche. I could see this version of SB being useful to WvW zerg subgroups that melee push. So it wouldn't even completely replace FB in all subgroups but just a melee groups.

Giving a second class group stability that competes with FB would significantly shake up the WvW meta and give ranger a spot in zergs.

Traits. I've been hit by necro wells at the same distance that i'm firing my longbow. If i'm being hit by a kitten necro well at the max distance at as my Longbow, I really don't know what to tell yah, other than some kitten would seriously be messed up. Then again, i'm not the fool programmer trying to hide things behind my boss' back in the programmers office.

There is no trait that does that.

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@Yasai.3549 said:I rather they nerf Maul than ranged autos.

Ranged autos do stupid damage, yes, but they are also screwed by terrain and anyone who doesn't use terrain in wvw dueling is an idiot.

On the other hand I am extremely unhappy with the fact that Rangers have more 1 shot potential than any profession in the game right now.

Maul still bursts really hard.

Winter's Bite still bursts really hard.

Wordly Impact still bursts really hard.

If yu are playing any profession without some form of Protection uptime, any of these skills landing will force a heal and allow them to whittle yur health down with ranged autos.

This. None of these skills really requires setting up, yet hit as hard as a full-on trap combo by DH. That's just silly design.

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@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:I rather they nerf Maul than ranged autos.

Ranged autos do stupid damage, yes, but they are also screwed by terrain and anyone who doesn't use terrain in wvw dueling is an idiot.

On the other hand I am extremely unhappy with the fact that Rangers have more 1 shot potential than any profession in the game right now.

Maul still bursts really hard.

Winter's Bite still bursts really hard.

Wordly Impact still bursts really hard.

If yu are playing any profession without some form of Protection uptime, any of these skills landing will force a heal and allow them to whittle yur health down with ranged autos.

This. None of these skills really requires setting up, yet hit as hard as a full-on trap combo by DH. That's just silly design.

What class are you playing?

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@knite.1542 said:

But you completely ignored my posts, eh. Changed your avatar picture to the soulbeast icon to better blend in too, no? You're an engie main, and your profession is busted.

Engi is busted, but this isn't the forum to talk about that on.

No, it's not.

But I don't come busting in on other class forums every single week to declare something as broken, op or busted.

People do it here all the time though, and, ESPECIALLY when it comes to a class that lack good builds for one of the main areas of a game mode, I find it particularly unconstructive when said people can't even conjure up some suggestions to make the class perform better in that area. This is about WvW. Ranger lacks a zerg build. There is no focus on that fact, only on nerfing the class further for the same reason it got nerfed last patch.

And that's the difference between ranger and engineer right now. One has strong builds for both roaming and organized zerg play, the other doesn't.

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@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:This. None of these skills really requires setting up, yet hit as hard as a full-on trap combo by DH. That's just silly design.

The two hardest hitting ones (Maul and WI) require the target to stand almost still and watch two massively telegraphed attacks hit them.

But ye, let's pretend all other hard hitting skills in this game require more setups.

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@Lazze.9870 said:

But you completely ignored my posts, eh. Changed your avatar picture to the soulbeast icon to better blend in too, no? You're an engie main, and your profession is busted.

Engi is busted, but this isn't the forum to talk about that on.

No, it's not.

But I don't come busting in on other class forums every single week to declare something as broken, op or busted.

People do it here all the time though, and, ESPECIALLY when it comes to a class that lack good builds for one of the main areas of a game mode, I find it particularly unconstructive when said people can't even conjure up some suggestions to make the class perform better in that area. This is about WvW. Ranger lacks a zerg build. There is no focus on that fact, only on nerfing the class further for the same reason it got nerfed last patch.

And that's the difference between ranger and engineer right now. One has strong builds for
both
roaming and organized zerg play, the other doesn't.

My suggestion for getting ranger into zerging is to nerf the classes that are currently dominating it to make room for other classes to be desirable. I don't really think making any class stronger to fit into the zerg meta is a good way to go. Either way, just because a class doesn't have a strong zerging build shouldn't make them immune to nerfs.

And since you keep bringing up engi for some reason, I do hope holosmith specifically gets nerfed. It is way too overtuned. Either way, that still has nothing to do with this thread.

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@knite.1542 said:

But you completely ignored my posts, eh. Changed your avatar picture to the soulbeast icon to better blend in too, no? You're an engie main, and your profession is busted.

Engi is busted, but this isn't the forum to talk about that on.

No, it's not.

But I don't come busting in on other class forums every single week to declare something as broken, op or busted.

People do it here all the time though, and, ESPECIALLY when it comes to a class that lack good builds for one of the main areas of a game mode, I find it particularly unconstructive when said people can't even conjure up some suggestions to make the class perform better in that area. This is about WvW. Ranger lacks a zerg build. There is no focus on that fact, only on nerfing the class further for the same reason it got nerfed last patch.

And that's the difference between ranger and engineer right now. One has strong builds for
both
roaming and organized zerg play, the other doesn't.

My suggestion for getting ranger into zerging is to nerf the classes that are currently dominating it to make room for other classes to be desirable. I don't really think making any class stronger to fit into the zerg meta is a good way to go. Either way, just because a class doesn't have a strong zerging build shouldn't make them immune to nerfs.

And since you keep bringing up engi for some reason, I do hope holosmith specifically gets nerfed. It is way too overtuned. Either way, that still has nothing to do with this thread.

Please, just go on Engi forum and start there a thread about holo nerf or whatever you want. Trying now to be "neutral" or partial doesn't change the fact you hate Ranger. You proove it in the first place.

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@knite.1542 said:

But you completely ignored my posts, eh. Changed your avatar picture to the soulbeast icon to better blend in too, no? You're an engie main, and your profession is busted.

Engi is busted, but this isn't the forum to talk about that on.

No, it's not.

But I don't come busting in on other class forums every single week to declare something as broken, op or busted.

People do it here all the time though, and, ESPECIALLY when it comes to a class that lack good builds for one of the main areas of a game mode, I find it particularly unconstructive when said people can't even conjure up some suggestions to make the class perform better in that area. This is about WvW. Ranger lacks a zerg build. There is no focus on that fact, only on nerfing the class further for the same reason it got nerfed last patch.

And that's the difference between ranger and engineer right now. One has strong builds for
both
roaming and organized zerg play, the other doesn't.

My suggestion for getting ranger into zerging is to nerf the classes that are currently dominating it to make room for other classes to be desirable. I don't really think making any class stronger to fit into the zerg meta is a good way to go. Either way, just because a class doesn't have a strong zerging build shouldn't make them immune to nerfs.

And since you keep bringing up engi for some reason, I do hope holosmith specifically gets nerfed. It is way too overtuned. Either way, that still has nothing to do with this thread.

I don't "keep bringing it up", I brought it up once, you made a statement about it, I made an example out of that statement.

Your solution is to nerf the meta classes... I can tell you right now it won't change a thing. Druid needs a staff rework and some trait changes, and Soulbeast needs at least a buff to the duration of shared stances.

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@Lazze.9870 said:Your solution is it to nerf the meta classes... I can tell you right now it won't change a thing.

I don't know. Even with those changes you listed a firebrand would still be better at buffing a party than a stance share soulbeast, and firebrands can provide more healing. Really the only way I'd see soulbeast being really wanted in a zerg is if could do something better than firebrand (but with firebrand being as strong as it is, I don't see that). Even if soulbeast could provide more boon uptime than firebrands, firebrands are still able to provide more boons than a soulbeast can and heal better than a soulbeast. Even if soulbeast/druid together could heal and buff equally as good as a firebrand, it would still be easier to take 1 firebrand that can do everything in one.

edit: Just to be clear on my point, I'm not saying they don't need improvement in areas, I just don't think it will matter much if they are still greatly outperformed by the current meta classses.

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@knite.1542 said:

@"Lazze.9870" said:Your solution is it to nerf the meta classes... I can tell you right now it won't change a thing.

I don't know. Even with those changes you listed a firebrand would still be better at buffing a party than a stance share soulbeast, and firebrands can provide more healing. Really the only way I'd see soulbeast being really wanted in a zerg is if could do something better than firebrand (but with firebrand being as strong as it is, I don't see that). Even if soulbeast could provide more boon uptime than firebrands, firebrands are still able to provide more boons than a soulbeast can and heal better than a soulbeast. Even if soulbeast/druid together could heal and buff equally as good as a firebrand, it would still be easier to take 1 firebrand that can do everything in one.

edit: Just to be clear on my point, I'm not saying they don't need improvement in areas, I just don't think it will matter much if they are still greatly outperformed by the current meta classses.

Those changes would only be "for starters". Dolyak Stance shared is the next best source of group stability after Firebrand (way better than the one Herald has), and can definetely be useful. Just because soulbeast can fulfill the role of providing stability, doesn't mean it should fulfill the same role as a Firebrand.

Druid has lot of potential if they were to actually rework it. Grace of the Land for PvE is the really the only thing they have to keep, the rest could be scrapped if they wanted to take it that far. I doubt they will, but the point is, as with Soulbeast's stances, there is a lot of potential there.

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My thoughts:

It's just another case of ANet trying to fix unintended consequences of a flawed design by tweaking numbers. The shouts effects affecting the ranger instead of it's pet wasn't something intended when they designed the shouts, these shouts where designed to support the very foreseeable pets performances not push the ranger's performances to new heights.

It's obvious that the ranger is an awful lot more effective than it's pet, even in beast mode. Carrying pets specifics buff onto the ranger when in beast mode could only lead to an imbalance increase of performance that no number tweaks can resolve. ANet devs won't balance the ranger as a whole if they take things out of the core ranger to balance a soulbeast specific issue. Like they won't balance the necromancer as a whole by taking things out of the core for scourge specific issue... etc.

Yet the fact is that ANet devs balance like that since age, so you can just push this change into a corner of your mind and label it as "another dumb number tweak".

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@Lazze.9870 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:This. None of these skills really requires setting up, yet hit as hard as a full-on trap combo by DH. That's just silly design.

The two hardest hitting ones (Maul and WI) require the target to stand almost still and watch two massively telegraphed attacks hit them.

But ye, let's pretend all other hard hitting skills in this game require more setups.

Yes, let's pretend they cannot be used from Stealth. Let's also pretend Maul doesn't have a measly 4-second CD. Anything else?

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Longbow was already not the best dps dealer in the game, with it's autoattacks falling a bit short (even tho it's still very fun to use and the only ranged option for power dps apart from Axe/axe, and that one has a far shorter range and still can be fun but it isn't ideal either in my opinion). A bit unfortunate I think.

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Came back to play my Ranger after a long break of playing. It's significantly harder to play now (maybe me being rusty plays into it). But, where before I felt i could hold my own in a 1v1, 1vX at times, it is apparent they nerfed the crap out of the ranger...that or they buffed the crap out of every other class. It's ironic how to be good with the ranger, you need to not use the bow and even if you do, literally every other class seems to be better. I have never 1 shot someone as a ranger in the years i have been maining the ranger, but that seems to happen to me regularly now. Losing many fights because I am out-ranged, out-run, and out-damaged.

Long story short, ANET please buff the ranger. Its ridiculous how not effective it is at what it should be effective at... shooting at things far away.

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@knite.1542 said:Nice little nerf but not really going to fix what's really annoying about soulbeasts, IMO.

I would rather the the range lowered and the damage modifiers reworked a bit.

I would say raise the CD on sic em, and make the maul damage modifier require you to hit a target.

this would fix pretty much everything, altho you forgot fresh reinforcement.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

Well i agree with you there are a lot of skills in game that do hit extremely hard.

But i dont think nerfing the base damage a 15% will solve the issues. It will make hammer revenants even more prevalent in wvw. It will not make rangers to move away from the longbow anyway because there is not other choice from them.I feel like the balance team is just catering to the whiners thieves and mesmers taken down by an auto while they were running away with their teleports when the failed in the ganking attempt.

If @systemsteam wants the ranger to move away from longbow what imo they should do is to give the range back to shortbow (or ideally give it the same range as longbow) and improve the weapon giving it some utility or the splinter effect to the attacks. And then they can nerf that 15% off the LB and rev hammer AA.

Then the ranger may move to condi builds which will make the lb obsolete.

The reason why Hammer rev is not great in wvw roaming is because they are easily picked on by so many classes.

Hammer Rev may dish out the damage but they have extremely obvious tells and even worse cast time.

Coupled with the fact they severely lack any form of sustain, they are easily put down in a drawn out fight, which most if not all roam builds are designed to contend with.

I just feel that it is extremely disgusting that one of the best dueling sustain professions in the game also has the best burst capability.

Thieves and Mesmers pay for their burst through building very squishy stats, to the point a stray DH LB 2 can instantly drop them.

Rangers, on the other hand doesn't have this weakness at all, having very high Protection uptime, easy Vuln stacking, and hefty damage boosts, as well as ridiculously high Power scaling.

The only thing stopping them from playing in zergs and dominating is that they are countered very hard by multiple layers of projectile hate and aegis, which zergs tend to have an overabundance of.

A class with high sustain, unrivalled burst and sustain dps from ranged or melee, excellent escape, is obviously gonna be constantly on the radar for balance changes.

This category which ranger falls in is also shared by Holosmith and Warrior, but each for similar aspects, though not exactly like Ranger.

The only thing more toxic than cheesy 1 shot builds or disgusting Condi stacking tumors, are all rounders which do everything a little too well.

Imagine if Weaver had a seriously stupid scaling to all stats or have ridiculous base numbers.

They would be the most broken class in wvw roaming due to no wasted stats and extreme coverage of all aspects of combat.

I can counter your typical burst ranger ...with a full signet tempest...while on ele, ranger is by far the easiest class to kill ...the reason I don't see rangers at all while roaming on ele, occasionally you meet that annoying boonbeast who does average dmg and requires a gank group to kill anything ....definitely rangers are not the reason the roaming scene is dead.

We have deadeye - condi thieves and nike thieves or condi mirages , one shot mesmer ( rare now ) , holosmiths and spellbreakers ....

"Thieves and Mesmers pay for their burst through building very squishy stats"..laughable statement...stealth is the most OP disengage/engage in the game and coupled with shortbow 5 /vault spam /jaunt...mesmer and thieves have plenty of ways to reset burst if it fails, everybody knows that and so there is no sense in coming up with a statement like that

Go play a fresh air ele in wvw roaming to get a full understanding of squishiness but claiming thief and mesmer are "squishy" because they use marauder stats...it's ridiculous

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@knite.1542 said:

@knite.1542 said:Nice little nerf but not really going to fix what's really annoying about soulbeasts, IMO.

I would rather the the range lowered and the damage modifiers reworked a bit.

I would say raise the CD on sic em, and make the maul damage modifier require you to hit a target.

What a joke! Have you ever played ranger? Or have you played since the last patch? May I know what class are you playing?All ranger's haters are coming on this section forum, to complain and cry about ranger, instead to learn their own class, or instead to give ideas how to improve their classes.All these ppl who don't have ranger as main character, and coming here to toxic every single thread of ranger's forum, are nothing but pathetic.

Sorry if me sharing my opinion 'toxiced this thread.' Either way, I am not crying or complaining about anything.

Butt..you didn't answer the question..do you actually play a ranger?

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