Why can core ranger use gazelle?

[sephiroth.4217]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:

@"Lilyanna.9361" said:Lemme guess, you're frustrated ranger can get access to one of the most reliable pets and you don't like that.

They are literally just pets. Core ranger doesn't have anything else but damage and no core pet is even remotely good, so why pick the bad choices? Why lock a class into clearly BAD choices?

Because these pets come with the expansions.

Let's make a comparison od benefits.

Core Ranger player owns an expansion.

Core Warrior player owns an expansion.

Core Ranger benefits from owning expansion

. Because not only it has a wider choice, it also uses pets that are far more powerful.

Core Warrior

doesn't get any benefit

from owning an expansion.

We are talking Class mechanics and competitive environment.

Maybe they should buff every core class to core warrior levels, how would you like that? The core pets actually hit harder than HoT ones if you'd bother to check, main issue is that core pets are still balanced with 2012 gameplay in mind.....they never bothered to increase the movement speed of core pets...if they would you'd be here crying about drakes and felines

By the way Core warrior use a traitline

Strength

comparable to elite level given the amount of sustain ( might makes me right ) and utility it provides...it's the main reason why core warrior is leaps and bounds above other core specs

I am talking about the entirety of Core system.

Core classes, except Ranger, get nothing with expansions. Ranger does.That is the point.

It's kind of not the point though dude.

It has nothing to do with "where the content came from" it's about the balance in power.

It doesn't matter if Core Necro Shroud buffs over the years came from an expansion or not, it's that it was greatly enhanced, right along with things like bolstered Core Engi tool belt skills. So then you have something like a Core Ranger, whos' entire core class kit IS THE PET. But if the core pets are literally never once touched or buffed at all over the years, then the Core Ranger kit becomes very weak compared to the core classes who have received significant buffs to their kit. So the only way the Core Ranger CAN keep up with that, is through expansion pets.

I see your picture is missing ???

[Crab Fear.1624]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:

@"Lilyanna.9361" said:Lemme guess, you're frustrated ranger can get access to one of the most reliable pets and you don't like that.

They are literally just pets. Core ranger doesn't have anything else but damage and no core pet is even remotely good, so why pick the bad choices? Why lock a class into clearly BAD choices?

Because these pets come with the expansions.

Let's make a comparison od benefits.

Core Ranger player owns an expansion.

Core Warrior player owns an expansion.

Core Ranger benefits from owning expansion

. Because not only it has a wider choice, it also uses pets that are far more powerful.

Core Warrior

doesn't get any benefit

from owning an expansion.

We are talking Class mechanics and competitive environment.

Maybe they should buff every core class to core warrior levels, how would you like that? The core pets actually hit harder than HoT ones if you'd bother to check, main issue is that core pets are still balanced with 2012 gameplay in mind.....they never bothered to increase the movement speed of core pets...if they would you'd be here crying about drakes and felines

By the way Core warrior use a traitline

Strength

comparable to elite level given the amount of sustain ( might makes me right ) and utility it provides...it's the main reason why core warrior is leaps and bounds above other core specs

I am talking about the entirety of Core system.

Core classes, except Ranger, get nothing with expansions. Ranger does.That is the point.

It's kind of not the point though dude.

It has nothing to do with "where the content came from" it's about the balance in power.

It doesn't matter if Core Necro Shroud buffs over the years came from an expansion or not, it's that it was greatly enhanced, right along with things like bolstered Core Engi tool belt skills. So then you have something like a Core Ranger, whos' entire core class kit IS THE PET. But if the core pets are literally never once touched or buffed at all over the years, then the Core Ranger kit becomes very weak compared to the core classes who have received significant buffs to their kit. So the only way the Core Ranger CAN keep up with that, is through expansion pets.

I see your picture is missing ???

I just got back from "vacation" myself.

[Ralkuth.1456]

Solution is to buff Core Pets in some way, perhaps by bringing them in line with expansion meta-picks.

This can be done independently but concurrently with pet power-level adjustments across the board, but this would be a lengthy wait comparable to the time between Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire and Emerald.

[bravan.3876]

@Ralkuth.1456 said:Solution is to buff Core Pets in some way, perhaps by bringing them in line with expansion meta-picks.

This can be done independently but concurrently with pet power-level adjustments across the board, but this would be a lengthy wait comparable to the time between Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire and Emerald.

Again, no we don't want more power creep, in particular not from npcs. Most elite pets are op as hell. Just bring them in line with core pets by doing the needed nerfs already. Then there is no problem from Rangers being able to use all pets on all specs. Let Ranger have this bit of higher variety, it is not a bad thing itself. Only op pets hurting balance not the bigger pool of pets Corerangers can choose from.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Could be said in regards to amulets, like you need hot to use marauder stats for example (wvw/pve).

[Dadnir.5038]

@"bravan.3876" said:Again, no we don't want more power creep, in particular not from npcs. Most elite pets are op as hell. Just bring them in line with core pets by doing the needed nerfs already. Then there is no problem from Rangers being able to use all pets on all specs. Let Ranger have this bit of higher variety, it is not a bad thing itself. Only op pets hurting balance not the bigger pool of pets Corerangers can choose from.

Well, a lot of core pets deserve as much buffs as x-pacs pets deserve nerfs. As it stand pet's balance is in an even worse state than profession's balance.

The fact is that x-pacs pets just have better skill kits than core pets which automatically make them a better pick. Would people use smokescale if it didn't have it's smoke assault but dog's brutal charge? Nope. Look at gazelle cool downs, they are half what core pet cool downs for skills that are twice as potent... Iboga's skills put spiders to shame with super short cool downs. Jacaranda also put moa to shame when it come to CD on support and the worst is that no moa are classified as "supportive" when it's basically their only worth...

[bravan.3876]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"bravan.3876" said:Again, no we don't want more power creep, in particular not from npcs. Most elite pets are op as hell. Just bring them in line with core pets by doing the needed nerfs already. Then there is no problem from Rangers being able to use all pets on all specs. Let Ranger have this bit of higher variety, it is not a bad thing itself. Only op pets hurting balance not the bigger pool of pets Corerangers can choose from.

Well, a lot of core pets deserve as much buffs as x-pacs pets deserve nerfs. As it stand pet's balance is in an even worse state than profession's balance.

The fact is that x-pacs pets just have better skill kits than core pets which automatically make them a better pick. Would people use smokescale if it didn't have it's

smoke assault

but dog's

brutal charge

? Nope. Look at gazelle cool downs, they are half what core pet cool downs for skills that are twice as potent... Iboga's skills put spiders to shame with super short cool downs. Jacaranda also put moa to shame when it come to CD on support and the worst is that no moa are classified as "supportive" when it's basically their only worth...

Yes i would not delete smoke field from Smokescale or stuff like that. I just mean do not buff core pets into 12k+ hit Gazelles. I also would like the idea that pet stats depend on Ranger stats means Bunkerdruids or Boonbeasts have Gazelles hit only half as hard as a Berserker Ranger Gazelle.

[Dreams.3128]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Ralkuth.1456 said:Solution is to buff Core Pets in some way, perhaps by bringing them in line with expansion meta-picks.

This can be done independently but concurrently with pet power-level adjustments across the board, but this would be a lengthy wait comparable to the time between Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire and Emerald.

Again, no we don't want more power creep, in particular not from npcs. Most elite pets are op as hell. Just bring them in line with core pets by doing the needed nerfs already. Then there is no problem from Rangers being able to use all pets on all specs. Let Ranger have this bit of higher variety, it is not a bad thing itself. Only op pets hurting balance not the bigger pool of pets Corerangers can choose from.

Core pets do NOTHING, do you not understand that issue???? Name one core pet that can reliably do anything to a player that is constantly kiting, blocking, throwing CC. Bet you, you can't. Bristleback AND smokescale got NERFED. Several times. Electric and Fire Wyvern are not used. Gazelle had gotten their bug fixes a LONG time ago. Iboga and Jacaranda are also not meta. Someone already said core pets do WAY more damage than most of the elite pets. You are literally going to nerf their only mechanic for no damn reason.

[bravan.3876]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Ralkuth.1456 said:Solution is to buff Core Pets in some way, perhaps by bringing them in line with expansion meta-picks.

This can be done independently but concurrently with pet power-level adjustments across the board, but this would be a lengthy wait comparable to the time between Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire and Emerald.

Again, no we don't want more power creep, in particular not from npcs. Most elite pets are op as hell. Just bring them in line with core pets by doing the needed nerfs already. Then there is no problem from Rangers being able to use all pets on all specs. Let Ranger have this bit of higher variety, it is not a bad thing itself. Only op pets hurting balance not the bigger pool of pets Corerangers can choose from.

Core pets do NOTHING, do you not understand that issue???? Name one core pet that can reliably do anything to a player that is constantly kiting, blocking, throwing CC. Bet you, you can't. Bristleback AND smokescale got NERFED. Several times. Electric and Fire Wyvern are not used. Gazelle had gotten their bug fixes a LONG time ago. Iboga and Jacaranda are also not meta. Someone already said core pets do WAY more damage than most of the elite pets. You are literally going to nerf their only mechanic for no kitten reason.

Ok turn them all into 12k+ hit Gazelles because balance! Dogs have cc and other effects they still hit for 2-3k, that is more than enough. Birds (owl) also do insane dmg aside form nice effects like blind. There are several pets op. You are just too used to all the power creep i guess and it is not that Ranger itself has enough of power creep already. Pets shouldn't be a main source of dmg. Gazelle is still broken and it is not the only one just the most obvious and most used one. Also learn to read i never said something about mechanical nerfs or changes, i just said don't turn all pets into 12k hit Gazelles. Calm your kitten pls.

[Eugchriss.2046]

There are some serious biased people here. Really. This is like saying core rev should have access to herald/kalla if the player has the right expansion. Every comment like:

@derd.6413 said:because pets aren't an espec mechanic. and ranger's pet is the only profession mechanic you can expand outside of especs. this is on top of the fact that the new pets have nothing to do wit the especs besides they're in an xpac.or@Trise.2865 said:Animals don't care what weapons, specs, or skills you use.

or

@Lilyanna.9361 said:They are literally just pets. Core ranger doesn't have anything else but damage and no core pet is even remotely good, so why pick the bad choices? Why lock a class into clearly BAD choices?

Core ranger also literally has pets as utility and nothing else. Taking that away is unfair since it's got nothing else going for it. So it SHOULD have a wide variety of pets and access to said pets because THAT is their special thing. Druid has healing. Sb has the merge. Core ranger has the right to a large variety of pets.or@Teratus.2859 said:Limiting specific pets to specific elite specs would mess with ranger balancing and force each spec to be balanced in part around which pets are available and cause even more division between the core class and elite specs with one of them and only one of them being defined as the best because it has access to a specific pet/ability and the others get pushed aside because they don't.

Would suck pretty hard if every Ranger was forced into Druid for the smokescale right?.. or Soulbeast for the Gazelle.. not to mention poor core Ranger who wouldn't be welcome anywhere because many of it's best builds which utalize expansion pets are diminished even more because they no longer can.

It's an unnecessary restriction that will do far more damage than good.

and more... DOES APPLY TO REV TOO. Just replace pets by legends and here you go.

All the people who agree with the fact that a core ranger can have access to e-spec pets should also agree with a core rev having access to e-spec legends.I personally disagree since it gives to a core ranger with X expansion, an advantage over other core specs with the same X expansion.

special mention:

@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Ralkuth.1456 said:Solution is to buff Core Pets in some way, perhaps by bringing them in line with expansion meta-picks.

This can be done independently but concurrently with pet power-level adjustments across the board, but this would be a lengthy wait comparable to the time between Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire and Emerald.

Again, no we don't want more power creep, in particular not from npcs. Most elite pets are op as hell. Just bring them in line with core pets by doing the needed nerfs already. Then there is no problem from Rangers being able to use all pets on all specs. Let Ranger have this bit of higher variety, it is not a bad thing itself. Only op pets hurting balance not the bigger pool of pets Corerangers can choose from.

Core pets do NOTHING, do you not understand that issue???? Name one core pet that can reliably do anything to a player that is constantly kiting, blocking, throwing CC. Bet you, you can't.Fixing an issue by creating another one is rarely a good idea.

[Doto.6357]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:and more... DOES APPLY TO REV TOO. Just replace pets by legends and here you go.

No, those two mechanics are not comparable. The Herald Legend (Glint) and the Renegade Legend (Kalla Scorchrazor) are comparable to Celestial Avatar (Druid) and Beastmode (Soulbeast).

You cannot just say that a pet is equal to an entire elite specialization.

[Teratus.2859]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:There are some serious biased people here. Really. This is like saying core rev should have access to herald/kalla if the player has the right expansion.

Actually it's more like some players having access to expansion exclusive stat sets have an advantage over those who don't have the exapnsions.

Keep in mind that Rangers stats are split between character and pet, denying them access to expansion pets unless they're spec'd would limit their Ranger/pet stat potential as well as their build options.Revenant legends add an entire skillbar to use at the players whim, not to mention the elite spec traitline that comes with them is designed around that specific legend. Pets are nothing like that, they just round out some of the stats the Ranger looses by having a companion mechanic and they provide an additional F skill effect.

As I said this would force players into elite specs they don't want to use thus limiting their build potential while nerfing or outright killing other builds due to lacking pet compatibility.Rangers would be forced into specific roles if they were limited this way or forced to sacrifice a traitline to access the pets they need for certain content.It's a bad idea.

[derd.6413]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:There are some serious biased people here. Really. This is like saying core rev should have access to herald/kalla if the player has the right expansion. Every comment like:

and more... DOES APPLY TO REV TOO. Just replace pets by legends and here you go.

no actually it doesn't apply to rev legends because rev legends were designed around unlocking more through especs while ranger pets were designed to unlock with pokemon-esque exploration. and individual legends are more comparable to skill types rather then pets

[MrFrusciante.2438]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Another cool thing to note is that they also have access to their f skills when downed.

yep the moa f2s on condi binder druid are hilarious it procs on interrupt, poisons then drops 8 stacks of bleed.

[Shao.7236]

I've already made a post on this and people utterly disagree'd saying it was the "core" mechanic of ranger.

They were suggesting a bunch of random non sensical nerfs to other classes they considered comparable to justify why they have all the rights to keep the overplayed pets.

My complains were that xpac pets allow ranger to do stuff f2p's/core tyria wouldn't be able to otherwise. Basically carrying whatever spec you pick from with the same recycled tactics over and over. Smokescale stealth being the biggest offender, when you pick something over another, anything with any professions but ranger, you have the compromises made in between many things while Ranger gets a free pass on it.

All the reasons being that no other professions can consistently keep the same strategy while on different specs with the same efficiency, ranger can do that just fine.