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Initial Thoughts on the story


White Kitsunee.4620

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The quality of this patch is hitting the roof, IMO they've outdone themselves in terms of the story telling in the game.This has easily been the most immersive and fun open world story missions that have been made in recent memory, however.

I know you need bad guys for us to fight in MMOs, It's important. But pleasehttps://puu.sh/EilHC/66317958c2.jpgBlood is such an easy target that it seems like a boring direction to go in. I Trust the dev team to write something interesting, so I don't think its the direction they're going in, but I thought it needed to be said: Blood is too easy, come up with something better.

Edit: Thought I should go over in more details some of the stuff I liked so much.1.This felt like a much more honest way to redeem Braham. Braham have a phobia of spiders felt super forced, but this feels really really natural for him.2.Aurene's appearance is quite possible perfect3.The outdoor story content was really well paced, It felt like it progressed so naturally despite the fact that I made a bunch of detours to explore.4.The map is super fun. I always thought that people who said, "Mobs with big aggro range hurts the feeling of exploration." Were kinda dumb. Honestly though there being almost no mobs makes exploring super fun.

  1. Metal Legion turned out like 3 times better then I expected.
  2. Multiple dialogue choices, and Race specific Dialogue, THANK YOU!!!!

Overall fantastic work IMO

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I should pretty much copy and paste my response at this point given the number of threads popping up..

I agree, I thought this worked as a prologue and built well using direct and ambient dialogue. It's been a while since the game's narrative has been interesting enough to pull me along on its own strength, but this did it. After the utter rubbish that was the latter half of LS4, my faith is cautiously improved in this narrative team. Or at least those who did this episode - since we already know there is an absolutely enormous (and worrying) gulf in quality of the teams delivering episodes.

! For me it seems Bangar is being seduced by Jormags influence. Whether he is or whether he isn't - he is well set up to make an intriguing villain, even though it is likely he will be corrupted at some point>!

Dialogue driven episodes are hard to pull off because they can easily lose a lot of players, but this fitted really well and there were lots of really nice touches like the increase in snow (or at least I didn't notice the weather change until I was meant to even if it was already there) and the realisation that this was all cleverly being pulled together by the dialogue from various ambient npcs should one care to pick up on it.

Even without the twist at the end, it was clever to build into a possible new world order, with s snapshot of what Tyrians could be fearing in Aurene and making the Charr seem more nuanced than they have been since their watered down versions at launch.

Yes, a good prologue for me. Didn't expect that

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I am excited and I think the story was great. My hope is that we get a LOT more lore surrounding the events in the story. Specifically, the Flame Legion. There was just enough NPC dialogue in the Flame Legion camp to get me hooked--and if I don't get the details and specifics on how Flame Legion got to this point, I'm going to be deeply disappointed.Obviously, future releases will give us a lot of Norn lore details, and character development for Bangar, Rytlock, and Crecia---but please please please don't forget the Flame Legion details!

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@ugrakarma.9416 said:im dont completed the chapter, but i hope the blood dont become something like a white mantle or even the Awakened, anything involving blood legion should be really epic. Bangar Ruinbringer is the chance for narrative team to redeem themselves for the Long Live the Lich and A Crack in the Ice fiascos.

Blood most likely won't go down an dark path. Its most likely just Bangar. My guess is that Cercia will replace Bangar as blood imperator, and Rytlock will later do something in the story that will make him Khan-Ur.

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@ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:im dont completed the chapter, but i hope the blood dont become something like a white mantle or even the Awakened, anything involving blood legion should be really epic. Bangar Ruinbringer is the chance for narrative team to redeem themselves for the
Long Live the Lich
and
A Crack in the Ice
fiascos.

Blood most likely won't go down an dark path. Its most likely just Bangar. My guess is that Cercia will replace Bangar as blood imperator, and Rytlock will later do something in the story that will make him Khan-Ur.

make him some sort of gw2 Admiral Proudmoore will be too cheap too.

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@"White Kitsunee.4620" said:Blood is such an easy target that it seems like a boring direction to go in.

I bet you're only saying this because people like myself have been wanting Bangar to be a plot villain for a while. In all honesty, the one that's "an easy target" is the Flame Legion. Besides, an obvious villain does not make a boring villain.

@"Weindrasi.3805" said:I am excited and I think the story was great. My hope is that we get a LOT more lore surrounding the events in the story. Specifically, the Flame Legion. There was just enough NPC dialogue in the Flame Legion camp to get me hooked--and if I don't get the details and specifics on how Flame Legion got to this point, I'm going to be deeply disappointed.Obviously, future releases will give us a lot of Norn lore details, and character development for Bangar, Rytlock, and Crecia---but please please please don't forget the Flame Legion details!

I agree. I'd like to know more about Efnar. Honestly, he seems a bit too nice, in all honesty. But listening to the various ambient dialogue, so do the rest of the Flame Legion there. The only one that felt like traditional Flame Legion was one comment during the fist story instance, so I hope to see more of a strife in the Flame Legion as we see them become more modernized to the standards of the other three Legions. Not an outright "they're opposing so we must kill them" but just voicing difference of opinions kind of setup.

@ugrakarma.9416 said:im dont completed the chapter, but i hope the blood dont become something like a white mantle or even the Awakened, anything involving blood legion should be really epic. Bangar Ruinbringer is the chance for narrative team to redeem themselves for the Long Live the Lich and A Crack in the Ice fiascos.

Blood on a whole won't go evil. The way the finale of the prologue sets it up is basically that the Renegades got a powerboost in numbers from all four legions thanks to Bangar, and he's now leading them. He's not quite similar to Caudecus, because Caudecus was puppetmastering both sides of conflicts Kryta was in, playing key roles on both sides. Bangar just straight up rebelled after pulling discontent folks from his former allies / would be enemies. Which is something Hitler did in his rise, and a certain modern leader did (minus going to war, but that's only resulted in a higher number of hostilities and mass shootings instead - that's what happens when you call for arms, then never use those arms, the arm-bearers find their own way to use them). Note that I'm not saying that Bangar is being written as inspired by these figures, or to parody them, I'm just noting that intended or not the tactics are the same, just as Caudecus' tactics were similar to Palpatine's from Star Wars.

Anyways, point is, it's pretty clear that Blood and Flame are going to be split - but they made it so that all legions are split. The question is, how big is the division in each legion.

@ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:Blood most likely won't go down an dark path. Its most likely just Bangar. My guess is that Cercia will replace Bangar as blood imperator, and Rytlock will later do something in the story that will make him Khan-Ur.

I really hope they don't make Rytlock the Khan-Ur. That'd just be too left field, in all forms. Rytlock hates leadership. He doesn't want the responsibilities of leading others. He would be a horrible Khan-Ur in the same way Robert Baratheon made a horrible king in Game of Thrones (to use a modern story reference). Great fighter, horrible leader. In addition, he's not really eligible for Khan-Ur position. Yes, he's a famous charr, but he's also a well hated charr and non-standard. He'd also be skipping rank like crazy.

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@ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:

@"ugrakarma.9416" said:im dont completed the chapter, but i hope the blood dont become something like a white mantle or even the Awakened, anything involving blood legion should be really epic. Bangar Ruinbringer is the chance for narrative team to redeem themselves for the
Long Live the Lich
and
A Crack in the Ice
fiascos.

Blood most likely won't go down an dark path. Its most likely just Bangar. My guess is that Cercia will replace Bangar as blood imperator, and Rytlock will later do something in the story that will make him Khan-Ur.Or Crecia ends up in charge of Flame Legion due to her heritage and the trust Blood has in her, and Rytlock ends up becoming the new Blood Legion Imperator. Would be a way to "write him off" if they feel he needs to take a back seat from the main cast for a while. Not to mention Smodur feels more like Khan-Ur material, due to his ability to play the political field to his advantage.

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I feel like they’re setting up Rytlock to make “the ultimate sacrifice” concerning his son. The writers put a lot of work establishing the distance between them and Rytlock’s seeming guilt surrounding it.

Pretty sure Bangar’s fate is sealed long term. We’ll end up killing him or he’ll become Icebrood. Unless they pull a Loghain circa DA:O, but that’s doubtful...

Crecia seems positioned to be promoted to imperator at the very least. I could see her becoming Khan-Ur by the end of Icebrood potentially, but Smodur seems likely too.

Definitely curious about Flame. It sounded to me they’re refugees that have fled from the rest of their legion, so it didn’t seem odd that these members seemed “nice” to me. Did seem to be a few veiled hints dropped about something specific that made them run away to Blood tho, but I don’t think there’s any definitive statements made.

Overall really enjoyed the episode. The final sequence hiking through the pass was great and spooky. Could totally feel that horror vibe creeping in. Excited to see how the devs employ that in the coming saga. It’s really all about the environment and ambiance. Walking into the unknown. Making the familiar unfamiliar and unsettling.

I feel like Jormag is talking to Bangar in that trailer now. I can see Jormag tricking him into serving without even realizing he’s signed his soul away.

Love the POV work with the camera too. And Aurene’s brand is pretty. REALLY hope we get to see some core maps purified with her branding somehow.

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@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I agree that Smodur seems like the most likely candidate for Khan-Ur right now, my prediction is that there will be a civil war with a twist.. Bangar faces Jormag, but allies with him and declares himself Khan-Ur while slowly turning into an Icebrood, along with the people who came along with him.

I agree. I do think that Malice Swordshadow is something of a dark horse in this race, though - we know from Malice that Bangar and Smodur are vying for Khan-Ur, but if the Ash Legion imperator also wanted it she'd probably be smarter than to make her intentions known.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Weindrasi.3805" said:I am excited and I think the story was great. My hope is that we get a LOT more lore surrounding the events in the story. Specifically, the Flame Legion. There was just enough NPC dialogue in the Flame Legion camp to get me hooked--and if I don't get the details and specifics on how Flame Legion got to this point, I'm going to be deeply disappointed.Obviously, future releases will give us a lot of Norn lore details, and character development for Bangar, Rytlock, and Crecia---but please please please don't forget the Flame Legion details!

I agree. I'd like to know more about Efnar. Honestly, he seems a bit
too
nice, in all honesty. But listening to the various ambient dialogue, so do the rest of the Flame Legion there. The only one that felt like traditional Flame Legion was one comment during the fist story instance, so I hope to see more of a strife in the Flame Legion as we see them become more modernized to the standards of the other three Legions. Not an outright "they're opposing so we must kill them" but just voicing difference of opinions kind of setup.

The one that I don't trust is Crecia. She's covert ops and is completely loyal to her imperator and her legion - Malice says that it's likely that Bangar left some spies behind, and Crecia seems like a prime candidate for that. She has the trust of Rytlock and is therefore best-positioned to report the plans of Dragon’s Watch back to Bangar - and when the time is right, sabotage them.

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@Randulf.7614 said:I should pretty much copy and paste my response at this point given the number of threads popping up..

I agree, I thought this worked as a prologue and built well using direct and ambient dialogue. It's been a while since the game's narrative has been interesting enough to pull me along on its own strength, but this did it. After the utter rubbish that was the latter half of LS4, my faith is cautiously improved in this narrative team. Or at least those who did this episode - since we already know there is an absolutely enormous (and worrying) gulf in quality of the teams delivering episodes.

! For me it seems Bangar is being seduced by Jormags influence. Whether he is or whether he isn't - he is well set up to make an intriguing villain, even though it is likely he will be corrupted at some point>!

Dialogue driven episodes are hard to pull off because they can easily lose a lot of players, but this fitted really well and there were lots of really nice touches like the increase in snow (or at least I didn't notice the weather change until I was meant to even if it was already there) and the realisation that this was all cleverly being pulled together by the dialogue from various ambient npcs should one care to pick up on it.

Even without the twist at the end, it was clever to build into a possible new world order, with s snapshot of what Tyrians could be fearing in Aurene and making the Charr seem more nuanced than they have been since their watered down versions at launch.

Yes, a good prologue for me. Didn't expect that

this so much!

I want to just add a note about the music, that made it so immersive, and in the end of the episode it turned very creepy - first signs of lovecraftian atmosphere.

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@Tamias.7059 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I agree that Smodur seems like the most likely candidate for Khan-Ur right now, my prediction is that there will be a civil war with a twist.. Bangar faces Jormag, but allies with him and declares himself Khan-Ur while slowly turning into an Icebrood, along with the people who came along with him.

I agree. I do think that Malice Swordshadow is something of a dark horse in this race, though - we know from Malice that Bangar and Smodur are vying for Khan-Ur, but if the Ash Legion imperator also wanted it she'd probably be smarter than to make her intentions known.

@"Weindrasi.3805" said:I am excited and I think the story was great. My hope is that we get a LOT more lore surrounding the events in the story. Specifically, the Flame Legion. There was just enough NPC dialogue in the Flame Legion camp to get me hooked--and if I don't get the details and specifics on how Flame Legion got to this point, I'm going to be deeply disappointed.Obviously, future releases will give us a lot of Norn lore details, and character development for Bangar, Rytlock, and Crecia---but please please please don't forget the Flame Legion details!

I agree. I'd like to know more about Efnar. Honestly, he seems a bit
too
nice, in all honesty. But listening to the various ambient dialogue, so do the rest of the Flame Legion there. The only one that felt like traditional Flame Legion was one comment during the fist story instance, so I hope to see more of a strife in the Flame Legion as we see them become more modernized to the standards of the other three Legions. Not an outright "they're opposing so we must kill them" but just voicing difference of opinions kind of setup.

The one that I don't trust is Crecia. She's covert ops and is completely loyal to her imperator and her legion - Malice says that it's likely that Bangar left some spies behind, and Crecia seems like a prime candidate for that.

Being Khan Ur seems like it'd be too high profile for her to want the title, on top of her saying she doesn't like politics.

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@Arden.7480 said:Guys, do you think Almorra Soulkeeper also joined the rebellion?

She left Grothmar to go check the status of Jormag if I remember correctly - did she use it as an excuse to really join Bangar?

She went to check in with the Vigil outpost and inform them Kralk was dead. It seems rather circuitous for Bangar to want her at the rock festival and then for her to go through the trouble of getting out out of that to slip off early only to meet up with him elsewhere.

So, no I don't think Almorra joined up with him. There seems little reason for her to change her stance on the Dragons for it, even though it's likely Jormag is manipulating events from afar anyway

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@"Svennis.3852" said:Pretty sure Bangar’s fate is sealed long term. We’ll end up killing him or he’ll become Icebrood. Unless they pull a Loghain circa DA:O, but that’s doubtful...

While they describe it as Lovecraftian, it's really more Tolkienesque -- a promise of power that corrupts the soul and eventually even the body. Call him Bangarmir. Presumably the season will end by carrying Jormag to a volcano and tossing him in.

Definitely curious about Flame. It sounded to me they’re refugees that have fled from the rest of their legion, so it didn’t seem odd that these members seemed “nice” to me. Did seem to be a few veiled hints dropped about something specific that made them run away to Blood tho, but I don’t think there’s any definitive statements made.

Maybe everyone just killed enough of them that the only ones that survived are those with less bloodlust and will to power. Evolution in action.

Anyway, what's interesting to me is the implicit callback to the origins of the Flame Legion and the bad GW1 charr -- that is, the same way the Charr fell under the thrall of the Titans because they felt they needed gods to even the odds against humans, he is seeking power from the Frost Dragon. "You idjit! We'd look like a bunch of Johnny-come-latelies, bragging on our own dragon, don't matter how crystalline."

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I don't get the sense Jormag is manipulating Banger. I read it more as he wants to be equally powerful to The Pact.

The Pact has an allied Elder Dragon, so Bangor needs an allied Elder Dragon in an arms race. If he can slay Jormag and claim the magic for the Charr, nobody is stronger than the Charr.

He's acting totally rationally, for what his goals are.

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@"Arden.7480" said:Guys, do you think Almorra Soulkeeper also joined the rebellion?

She left Grothmar to go check the status of Jormag if I remember correctly - did she use it as an excuse to really join Bangar?

Are you kittening serious? Bangar's a Charr supremacist. Almorra thinks of the non-Charr in the Vigil as her people as much as the Charr, which is why she was in his office in the first place. Pretty sure most of the Pact Charr are going to be on her side as well -- they have, let's say, a much broader sense of "in-group" than Bangar's folks.

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Also, Almorra would understand our connection to Aurene better than Bangar does. She knows we did not "capture" her (or whatever he's planning to do with Jormag) and she certainly follows her own will. Trying to get a grown ED to just somehow be on your side and follow your commands is ridiculous.She would have enough experience with dragons by now, Elder or young. Plus, she cannot stand Bangar apparently. So there's no reason for her to leave the Vigil and join the rebellion.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I agree. I'd like to know more about Efnar. Honestly, he seems a bit too nice, in all honesty. But listening to the various ambient dialogue, so do the rest of the Flame Legion there. The only one that felt like traditional Flame Legion was one comment during the fist story instance, so I hope to see more of a strife in the Flame Legion as we see them become more modernized to the standards of the other three Legions. Not an outright "they're opposing so we must kill them" but just voicing difference of opinions kind of setup.

I don't find it strange that the Flame refugees are nice. All we ever encountered were the hate filled zealots and the soldiers who followed their orders. It's probably like comparing the Taliban to the average citizen in Afghanistan--the average citizen just wants to have a peaceful, productive life. Now that all or most of the Flame zealots have died in their civil war, we are seeing the average-citizen Flame Legion and the soldiers who are no longer under zealot rule.I do think there should be some differences of opinion voiced. For instance, I'm sure the Flame Legion shamans feel like the other three legions are sort-changing themselves by rejecting spirituality and magic--that the Flame Legion isn't the only group who has "sins of the past" to make up for.

Also, there's going to be some Flame Legion women who want nothing to do with the military, and will probably refuse to become soldiers. I'm sure for some of them--watching the soldiers come home maimed or not at all--being a soldier is terrifying. They'd be looked down on from the females in the other Legions, and would have to stand up for their decisions.

Then there's the whole "all your children belong to Blood Legion now." More than anything else, that is going to cause a LOT of resentment.

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