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Future Potential WvW-centric Balance Changes - September 6th 2019


Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

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@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:Greetings again all,

Thanks for the feedback regarding the proposed changes posted last week.

Below you'll find a set of changes we're looking at which is WvW-centric, as well as a few modifications to some of the changes from the last thread. With these changes the objective is to bring the dominant builds and compositions into line and offer more build diversity to the existing meta. Because there's been some confusion, we want to clarify that we're continuing to balance for other game types, including (as some of you guessed) significant changes to the warrior's Tactics line as well as the necromancer's Death Magic line, ranger sword changes and more.

As before, this isn't the full set of changes we're preparing and this is not a call for general profession feedback.Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

  • Would your gameplay change as a result? How?
  • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
  • Are you looking forward to these potential changes? Why?
  • What are your concerns and the consequences you expect with this set of changes?

Here is what we're looking at. Previously posted and unchanged items are italicized at the bottom of each profession's section so that it should be easier to focus on the new and changed parts of this set of changes:

Items

  • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

Engineer

  • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
  • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
  • Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.
  • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
  • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
  • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

Guardian

  • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.
  • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
  • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

Mesmer

  • Illusion of Life: ~~Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW ~~ Reduce the invulnerability period on revived allies. Improve the smart targeting on this skill so it can't fail in big group situations where there is someone downed and lots of people near them.
  • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
  • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
  • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

Necromancer

  • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
  • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
  • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
  • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
  • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.
  • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

Ranger

  • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.6-0.8 in WvW only.

Revenant

  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.
  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

Thief

  • Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 2 seconds in PvP & WvW. Reduce the internal cooldown from 5s to 2s in PvP & WvW.

Warrior

  • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in PvE and PvP and 10% in WvW in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
  • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
  • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
  • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

Thanks once again for your feedback and for keeping things focused.

Sincerely,~Irenio

Just miss 2:

  1. Where is my dismount button, or do u want to delete mounts.

  2. Get rid of revealed by marked mech., or come up with other Trade Offs to get teef back to compareable lvl. In marked zones.

For example:

  • no invu
  • aegis no effect
  • cant Enter hologodmode
  • cant enter beastmode
  • selfheal reduced by 50%
  • protection disable
  • ...
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I'm glad that Ranger longbow is getting looked at, however it needs more changes. Longbow needs a projectile speed decrease so players can actually strafe to dodge the arrows like you could at launch and in GW1. The current projectile speed means you can barely dodge Point Blank Shot. Sure, there is an animation for it but by the time you hit dodge, you're already knocked back because the arrow moves insanely fast.

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@DrKonfusselnuss.7129 said:Might and damage reduction on corona burst is a double nerf which makes this skill probably useless. 300 Range on shockwave sounds horrible because you give up your movement with this skill. Shockwave is supposed to be used as a long range cc to set up a burst or cc chain, it is easy to dodge because of it's slow animation. My recommendation would be that you should look into a special mechanic of the holo the heat mechanic.The skill could work like this: 450 Range under 50% heat and 600 Range over 50% heat. This would require you to manage your heat more probably and not just spam skills. PLS NO 300 RANGE!!!

Bump

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Warrior tactic minor Determined revival and reviver's might should be combined for a adept trait. minor trait shouldn't be excepting your team to go down, you should be able to spec for it, but it shouldnt be base minor traits, minor trait should be something more base line for general play.

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Just wanted to chime in regarding the mesmer mantras:

Given that only Mesmer and Firebrand have access to mantras, and their functionality change after PoF, it would make alot of sense for the Mesmer to simply adopt the limitations of the Firebrand mantras.

With this I mean they would fire in a cone in front of you, and simply whiff a charge if they are flanking you. It also means distance matters in terms of counterplay while we uniform mantras funcionality further seeing as the tech is already there, instead of having them behave a bit like signets and a bit like weapon skills that don't work without a target.

At the same time why not up the charges to 3 and reduce the active and upon cast effects to, in the case of MoD, a 0 sec daze for the express purpose of interrupting an action. For cleanse mantra, convert 3 on charge and cleanse 2 at a time thereafter. For heal, let big heal be on charge and allow subsequent casts decrease in heal value favoring having 3 charges ready over spamming. Damage mantra can keep it's might, but how about giving it a generic coefficient (0,5) and rather give 5 might on cast and proc in addition to the vuln - and make the damage oriented ones single target.

This would go a long way in limiting the oppressiveness of Mesmer mantras without completely removing their identity as a skill type.

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Personally, I'm thinking that an easy way to correct the power creep issue is simply adding a "warm up" mechanism to all of the HoT and PoF specializations. Similar to how the Warriors adrenaline build up works. Especially with the full reset when you're out of combat.

For instance, a scourge could only use their shade (F1) and the (F2) skill when first entering combat, but as the deal and receive damage, their "feel for the flow of combat" grows, and the other skills become available to them for the rest of the fight. Another big fix for the scourge target cap issue could be to remove the shade skills having an effect on the scourge, they are "shade skills" after all.

Firebrands could have a few pages in their tomes, at the start of a fight, but don't get the most powerful until their meter is full. Pretty much the same for all of them, Reaper, Dragonhunter, Weaver, and so on. Druids already have a mechanism similar to that.

It would also make the original 9 classes viable again since they aren't immediate overpowered.

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Guys could you actually give ranger some new builds that are helpfull in groups. As everyone has said from the beginning of this game.

Druids is a joke right now all the constant nerfs, you guys have really made it slow and un fun to play, Yall actually made me really miss the hot days and all of the fun fast placed plays i could do.I saw a post by shadowpass regarding some pretty cool ideas for ranger

Soulbeast can you give dagger some love?

The autoshot change why? Nerf soulbeast dont nerf core and any future specializations.Heres an idea have the soulbeast only get the benefits of all its damage modifiers when they are close (500 meters) to a target and make longbow have a more aggressive damage drop the closer someone is thus creating better counter play.

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@RedShark.9548 said:

@Ronnie Hu.1694 said:defense and discipline is a must for warrior, these is no place for tactics already

It would be if they made fast hands baseline.

Baseline Fast Hands. The wish of all warriors circa 2013. Honestly, unless I ran banners and/or axes I'd never take Discipline if Fast Hands were baseline, but then that'd be an increase in build diversity right?

What would they replace fast hands with though is the next question. How about move Brawler's Recovery into the Fast Hands slot, and make a new Major trait to replace the slot that Brawler's Recovery vacated?

Fast And Furious: Quickness grants you 100 Precision and 100 Ferocity. That would provide some synergy with Heightened Focus and might create a reason to take it.

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@warherox.7943 said:I'm glad that Ranger longbow is getting looked at, however it needs more changes. Longbow needs a projectile speed decrease so players can actually strafe to dodge the arrows like you could at launch and in GW1. The current projectile speed means you can barely dodge Point Blank Shot. Sure, there is an animation for it but by the time you hit dodge, you're already knocked back because the arrow moves insanely fast.

Yeah, nerf longbow! Buff 1 shot 25k malicious backstab thieves and permastealth 1,500 range deadeyes! Give Thief more damage, more evade, more ports, more stealth! And nerf that Ranger longbow real good!

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For the love of GOD, bring back PvE's Holo's toolbelt while overheating; really u killed Holo in PVE. We, PvE Holo-players don't care about PvP nerfs 'cuz in PVP Holo is broken (With Mirage and Support FB).

34K DPS with sword pistol isn't good if u consider that SWORD/PISTOL HOLO IS INFERIOR IN ALL WAYS AGAISNT DH ---> CC. Mobilty, BURST, RANGE DPS, DPS TO CLEAVE, AUTO-SUSTAIN. And I don't include that Sword Pistol rotation is super boring, MEGA boring to do 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-3-4-1-1-1-1-1-3-4 the entire time.

Idk but this game should be called Guardian Wars 2, cuz Guardian is meta in all game modes BY FAR: PvP - Firebrand | PVE: DH - Firebrand (CONDI-POWER-HEALER) | WvW - Healer.

In WvW, again, don't get Scrapper out of meta pls, or do u want to keep FB as the only support again?

Sorry for how i'm writting but man, not all ppl wants to play DH in PvE as DPS Class.

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how about giving deadeye rifle some love when kneeling.

like a stab pulse. thief has so little stunbreak/stability as is.

for PvE and Wvw.....specially WvW. deadeye gets stun/knock down spammed due to the lack of stability. also could make the Kneeling rifle 4 skill actually do something. like a smoke wall instead of just "block ranged, with cast time" which is pretty....eh

seriously...thief really lacks stability, which is a problem when kneel immoblizes you.

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@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Revenant

  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.
  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.IMO this would lose the flavor of the skill. It would just be a generic nuke that you thoughtlessly press. I suggest bringing the numbers from near to far closer to each other rather than making it same.

Warrior

  • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in PvE and PvP and 10% in WvW in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
  • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.I absolutely hate the thought of having barrier on this skill. It's really I don't know...out of place?
  • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
  • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.
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Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.Big question for me. It saved me many times when I run away and interrupted chaser's incoming boost or CC. In other words it will be a big decrease (unjustified?) on defensive part of skill use.

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@aceofbass.2163 said:

Revenant
  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.
  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    IMO this would lose the flavor of the skill. It would just be a generic nuke that you thoughtlessly press. I suggest bringing the numbers from near to far closer to each other rather than making it same.

Warrior
  • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in PvE and PvP and 10% in WvW in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
  • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    I absolutely hate the thought of having barrier on this skill. It's really I don't know...out of place?
  • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
  • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

I agree with the Warrior-Barrier thing. They are tanky enough ,a bit of barrier would make it even more ridiculous^^

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@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:so how is the long range shot nerf is impacting the insane damage bearbow rangers can dish out? What about Sicem and rapid shot?

Any brilliant ideas on how to bring ranger more into the squad meta as some compensation for continiously nerfing it, or is that just not important at all for the one of the professions that has seen the least screen time in the wvw meta?

To be fair, I have seen soulbeast in a guild group for the stances, it still isn't enough for Rangers to be considered meta but it shows that they are close to be i guess

Shared stances definetely got potensial, and so does druid if they were willing to rework the staff and a few traits. But, Anet is being completely silent about it.

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What are your concerns and the consequences you expect with this set of changes?I am concerned that scrapper and tempest will both be worse than before the antitoxin rune nerf. The Firebrand nerfs are actually less severe than this nerf is to these two support specs, and firebrand is already way better. The antitoxin rune nerf is needed, but since you are removing this crutch in this patch, you have to put much more effort into bringing firebrand down and compensating scrapper and tempest so they can get in the support meta. One of these specs needs to have stability share so that there are alternatives. No, 1 stack of stab on an earth major master trait, that has not been touched since 2012, is not going to cut it. There need to be multiple traits or skills that grant stability to allies. At least half the amount of what firebrand offers for there to be a viable alternative.

A great stab alternative exists with soulbeast and shared dolyak stance. Why not bring that into the meta instead of strengthening classes that can already perform in the meta as is.

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@Virdo.1540 said:

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:
Revenant
  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.
  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    IMO this would lose the flavor of the skill. It would just be a generic nuke that you thoughtlessly press. I suggest bringing the numbers from near to far closer to each other rather than making it same.

Warrior
  • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in PvE and PvP and 10% in WvW in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
  • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    I absolutely hate the thought of having barrier on this skill. It's really I don't know...out of place?
  • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
  • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

I agree with the Warrior-Barrier thing. They are tanky enough ,a bit of barrier would make it even more ridiculous^^

Well, its party barrier and it requires them to not take a shield or dps offhand in that slot, so we'll have to see how much barrier it actually is. Might be something with a low base but high Healing Power coefficient. Depending on HOW they rework tactics they may be adding in effects that depend on having barrier, or it could just be a lazy 'Let's throw barrier onto Call to Arms to see if people take warhorn during a fight."

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@Mak.2657 said:

Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.Big question for me. It saved me many times when I run away and interrupted chaser's incoming boost or CC. In other words it will be a big decrease (unjustified?) on defensive part of skill use.

Line of sight is not equal to character orientation. I believe you will still be able to hit your opponent behind chasing after you, as long as there are no solid objects (objects with hitbox, e.g., a tree, a rock or simply terrain feature) between you and your opponent.

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