We need chrono back now!

[Adamsdjr.1350]

@Straegen.2938 said:Odd that a lot of commanders now run Chrono if it sucks so badly

The only time I see it is if it's a pug commander and they're usually in full tank gear just so they don't die. It's a great class for commanding because there's very little to do so most of your time can be used for marking places to run and watching enemy movements. Other than that, it doesn't do anything. Not sure why it's so difficult just to make Chrono a boon-ripping class in wvw, a niche that is very under served atm

[kraai.7265]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:It isn't that Chronos don't have any decent zerg support. They've got Feedback, Portal, Temporal Curtain, Null Field, Illusion of Life, Mantra of Concentration, Mantra of Distraction, Time Warp, Gravity Well, Mass Invisibility, and Well of Precognition. But, the support doesn't tell the whole story. There's two things that are really lacking, which is why i'm reluctant to take mesmer into WvW.

feedback: guardians can do this with shield 5, less cd, plus they bring so much more utilty and support to the table.

portal: portal bombs are impossible in this meta, we can only get people up a castle/tower wall, anyway it's still somewhat usefull.

temporal curtain: the only thing usefull and unique, but with 25 secs of cd, and beeing so predictable its meh.

illusion of life: talked about this one already, good on papers but it's impossible to use properly, way too much casting time, between the cleave and powercreep it's really hard to land, not mentioning warclaws insta killing downed too.

mantras: the stability and condi cleanse mantra ar ok, but guards do that much better and far easier and they bring more to the table, mantra of distraction works pretty well in big fights if necros use corruption to take away stability.

mass invisibility: talked about this one earlier too, its worthless, not enough stealth, only affects 10 players, and scrappers are way better for this one, we lost veil too since those stupid scrapper changes.

well of precognition: this one its not that bad but still outshined by guardian's weapon skills.

(1): No good ranged damage options. Other than the occasional Phantasmal Berserker and Mirror Blade, the mesmer doesn't have much to offer on offense. The Greatsword auto is terrible, mesmers have poor AoE, and those illusions die really fast in a zerg.(2): Bringing all of the support skills and traits is a terrible build that's likely to get you killed. Mesmers live off of Blink and Decoy. This leaves mesmers with one free utility slot to take all of their unique support skills. While the mesmer can, in theory, support a zerg in a lot of ways, in practice they get maybe one or two niche utilities and that is the end of it. Mesmers can do anything, just not a lot of it.

1- I never use greatsword in zerg fights and never will, even a ranger can do it better and thats the least wanted spec for a zerg fight, not enough aoe even with mirage, plus trying to burst someone in the middle of a fight its pointless.2- you hit the nail here, we have a lot we can offer, but its so outshined by other specs it's worthless, so we can only do focus pulls, and get players inside a keep, thats it. I don't use decoy beacause even while in stealth you can get downed by a few aoe attacks or a rev burst. But blink is mandatory, because of the lack of range we got right now.

Chrono is hit especially hard now that they don't have Self-Shattering and good shatters anymore. All of the mesmer specs work well for solo and small scale, but in large scale it don't translate up well.

When it comes to zerg support, you don't need to be the best at it. Those utilities are still there, and they're still helpful even if similar roles can also be fulfilled by another class.

The biggest issue that I can see is that it is ONLY utilities that offer any sort of zerg support. The mesmer weapon skills are all about blocks and illusions, with maybe one CC skill thrown in. They're great for dueling, but they don't have any big movers in there. The shatters, again, focus on a single player and either do damage, CC, or block (diversion) This leaves a big hole in the mesmer philosophy: the tricky class has no trickery in their weapons. The mesmer needs to use their utilities for all of their weird effects, including mobility and stealth.

of course m8, also you don't have to be the best dps, you can just roll ranger and pew pew some idiot from the backline, but that's only viable when you follow a pugmander, or you play casually with friends, real wvw guilds with organized groups won't let you bring whatever you want, they need the best possible class for each job, mesmer used to have it's own job, now pof specs replaced every single job chrono could do, and mesmer became a mediocre back up for each of this specs or a strictly roaming class.holo/scrapper give tons more of stealthrenegade brings better boons overall to the tablefb is a better support overalland our last job was simply gutted (im talking about backline cc chronos)

[subversiontwo.7501]

I don't think anyone disagrees with the onset or general concerns. The class has some issues fitting into roles in WvW and the nerfs to Chrono went overboard (probably because of PvE issues, raids in particular, and in how Chrono kept being used quite alot just for its spec-unique resets).

The problems that caused were hard to adress for that reason (the resets themselves being the theme, or the time manipulation it was meant to respresent, even alacrity has been adressed and readressed over and over so it has been obvious that it has been causing the developers balance concerns), yet at the same time, the way they have adressed the class by poking at everything else around instead has certainly become a real and creeping problem for WvW now. It's similar to Rangers in PvE in a way where the big pink elephant is the frost spirit but they are slaughtering everything else around it instead. So yeah, a longwinded way of just agreeing that the Chrono changes have gone overboard and have been misdirected.

I've liked both the support chrono and the interrupt-damage chrono.

However, where there may be some disagreement and things to discuss is how deeply this affects the class overall. Finding a good spot for every spec (not class) everywhere is nigh impossible and when people say that Mesmers have no real roles now anymore I think they go a bit overboard too. Chrono may have been axed but the core role of Mesmers in WvW have always been to provide some unique support and then find another role to mimic to a lesser degree. There are definately Mesmer builds that can do this in WvW still, even at larger Scale and you can still approach it from a support perspective. Losing aspects of its role there is no different from how they've treated Engineers for example. A big chunk was taken out of the Scrapper and made it less diverse and fun but it still has role, albeit lessened. I'm more concerned with the future of the class than the present, even with the axe of Chrono-diversity.

So I'll admit that I'll miss some of my Chrono builds as well but there still remains a role for Chrono (admittedly a boring one, but it's there) and there are easily other things that you can do with the class on other builds that are given less credit than is fair here. Greatsword Mirages are better than what is being given credit here for example. It still has plenty of non-reflectables, is fun to play and offers something different within the class. It may not be as strong as eg., an Ele at being played similar to an Ele but it does well enough while still providing even a large group with choice niche support. Mesmers still seem well-received in most groups to a reasonable degree and at most scales, overall.

Then, of course, seeing Chrono repurposed and brought back into a better balance again is something I'm sure we'd all like. It's certainly possible but it means slaying some elephants and picking up the pieces from there.

[Cyninja.2954]

I'm sorry, your class has been discontinued for this game mode. Please reroll to Firebrand.

We are sorry for any inconvenice caused, please do not call again. click.

[Xion.5694]

@kraai.7265 said:

• Focus pull: the only thing left for us to do, the only unique skill related to our class that no other can do better, and it's not enough to make us usefull in any way.

Jus a reminder that FB has this on their tome, so nope.The only uniqness that remains is the killable Continuum Split (F4), as all your mechanic resources it can be easly killable.

[LetoII.3782]

@Xion.5694 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

• Focus pull: the only thing left for us to do, the only unique skill related to our class that no other can do better, and it's not enough to make us usefull in any way.

Jus a reminder that FB has this on their tome, so nope.The only uniqness that remains is the killable Continuum Split (F4), as all your mechanic resources it can be easly killable.

Firebrand pull isn't half what the mes can do, crocodile tears detected

[Riba.3271]

Chronos okay. Just play DPS with Dueling + Chaos. I don't want to share the exact build because it is connected to other people and guilds not much related to me.

You already have Illusion of life (saves a few people), double grav (kills a few people), veil (stealths whole zerg), shield 5 (stuns all enemies) with plenty of other choices to be more useful than a few players. And a class that is worth than a few players is viable, for example rangers, dps engis and thieves struggle killing 1 person alone in a zerg fight, even if they down one, they can't finish him. Chrono destroys dozens of them with just gravs, shield 5s and pulls, maybe GS shatter combos if you opt for that build.

Its just simple math: Save a few people + kill a few people = you're worth more than a few people.

Yes boonshare chrono was easier to play and you might miss it with all your heart, but Chrono itself is compeletely viable in WvW. The spec being realint on another traitline is not acceptable balancing though but I am just countering your arguments of Chrono being dead rather than discussing that topic.

[kraai.7265]

@"Threather.9354" said:Chronos okay. Just play DPS with Dueling + Chaos. I don't want to share the exact build because it is connected to other people and guilds not much related to me.

You already have Illusion of life (saves a few people), double grav (kills a few people), veil (stealths whole zerg), shield 5 (stuns all enemies) with plenty of other choices to be more useful than a few players. And a class that is worth than a few players is viable, for example rangers, dps engis and thieves struggle killing 1 person alone in a zerg fight, even if they down one, they can't finish him. Chrono destroys dozens of them with just gravs, shield 5s and pulls, maybe GS shatter combos if you opt for that build.

Its just simple math: Save a few people + kill a few people = you're worth more than a few people.

Yes boonshare chrono was easier to play and you might miss it with all your heart, but Chrono itself is compeletely viable in WvW. The spec being realint on another traitline is not acceptable balancing though but I am just countering your arguments of Chrono being dead rather than discussing that topic.

Lol it's si funny when people reply without Even readingVeil: You mean that 2 seconds stealth with a huge visual tell? No thx commanders prefer sceappers for that massive smoke field with no visual clues.iol: as i stated is a stupid skill, between warclaws and powercreep that skill has so much delay it almost never works as intended.Double grav well: are You kidding me ? I just stated it's impossible to land one with the one clone requirement, do You Even play mesmer? i tried every single setup i could in order to generate clones in the middle of zerg fights, even the retaliation on clones trait, you know what happens? they get destroyed almost at the same time they are casted.Greatsword: m8 i already talked about gs in zerg, its as usefull as a shortbow soulbeast, You can't defend yourself at all, thats why everyone uses scepter, same Range dmg but with a free hand and a block, gs only works for roaming.

And btw if what i want back is boonshare i would ask for signets rework, but if You have read what i'm posting My complains revolve around cc dps Chrono(that dueling-chaos-chrono build you are talking about), no one is expecting boonshare to come back. Also i was always talking about organized groups, i already know that when someone plays casually it doesent really matter which Build ir class he is using.

Plz next time You try school Simeone take the time to read what he's saying before writing, it's so infuriating to get this kind of replies. All of what You said is completely inaccurate and was already adressed in my original post

And if You still disagree go Build a Chrono try to "save some people, kill some others" with that joke of a res skills, and that single Gravity well, try to land that stupid iol skill in between warclaws finishes, and try not to get destroyed landing that single Gravity well with Focus pull, without on demand distortion, stability or heals, hope your fb keeps right beside You at all times.(because in case You don't know it has a really short Range, we aren't like backline eles throwing meteors)

[Riba.3271]

@kraai.7265 said:

@"Threather.9354" said:Chronos okay. Just play DPS with Dueling + Chaos. I don't want to share the exact build because it is connected to other people and guilds not much related to me.

You already have Illusion of life (saves a few people), double grav (kills a few people), veil (stealths whole zerg), shield 5 (stuns all enemies) with plenty of other choices to be more useful than a few players. And a class that is worth than a few players is viable, for example rangers, dps engis and thieves struggle killing 1 person alone in a zerg fight, even if they down one, they can't finish him. Chrono destroys dozens of them with just gravs, shield 5s and pulls, maybe GS shatter combos if you opt for that build.

Its just simple math: Save a few people + kill a few people = you're worth more than a few people.

Yes boonshare chrono was easier to play and you might miss it with all your heart, but Chrono itself is compeletely viable in WvW. The spec being realint on another traitline is not acceptable balancing though but I am just countering your arguments of Chrono being dead rather than discussing that topic.

Lol it's si funny when people reply without Even readingVeil: You mean that 2 seconds stealth with a huge visual tell? No thx commanders prefer sceappers for that massive smoke field with no visual clues.iol: as i stated is a stupid skill, between warclaws and powercreep that skill has so much delay it almost never works as intended.Double grav well: are You kidding me ? I just stated it's impossible to land one with the one clone requirement, do You Even play mesmer? i tried every single setup i could in order to generate clones in the middle of zerg fights, even the retaliation on clones trait, you know what happens? they get destroyed almost at the same time they are casted.Greatsword: m8 i already talked about gs in zerg, its as usefull as a shortbow soulbeast, You can't defend yourself at all, thats why everyone uses scepter, same Range dmg but with a free hand and a block, gs only works for roaming.

And btw if what i want back is boonshare i would ask for signets rework, but if You have read what i'm posting My complains revolve around cc dps Chrono(that dueling-chaos-chrono build you are talking about), no one is expecting boonshare to come back. Also i was always talking about organized groups, i already know that when someone plays casually it doesent really matter which Build ir class he is using.

Plz next time You try school Simeone take the time to read what he's saying before writing, it's so infuriating to get this kind of replies. All of what You said is completely inaccurate and was already adressed in my original post

And if You still disagree go Build a Chrono try to "save some people, kill some others" with that joke of a res skills, and that single Gravity well, try to land that stupid iol skill in between warclaws finishes, and try not to get destroyed landing that single Gravity well with Focus pull, without on demand distortion, stability or heals, hope your fb keeps right beside You at all times.(because in case You don't know it has a really short Range, we aren't like backline eles throwing meteors)

I said dueling, you can just dodge to summon a clone and shatter afterwards before the clone gets destroyed.

I am sorry but it is literally impossible to fail this unless you click both your dodge bar and shatter with your mouse, neither of which you should do.

Yes scepter is the more mainstream build but I did mention greatsword as a variant MEANING it isn't the main build but it still can work if you know all the greatsword mechanics. Indeed scepter and focus are easy peasy to use and will fit melee train better, but unfortunately there are fights when following open commanders where you get outpressured by enemy, can't finish downs and greatsword would be more useful.

And if you call both gravity and illusion of life joke skills, I don't know, maybe stop shooting them around reactively and read a few seconds ahead in a fight like a good player? Like I said, chrono is harder now. You have to be better than on other classes.

[kraai.7265]

@Threather.9354 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Threather.9354 said:Chronos okay. Just play DPS with Dueling + Chaos. I don't want to share the exact build because it is connected to other people and guilds not much related to me.

You already have Illusion of life (saves a few people), double grav (kills a few people), veil (stealths whole zerg), shield 5 (stuns all enemies) with plenty of other choices to be more useful than a few players. And a class that is worth than a few players is viable, for example rangers, dps engis and thieves struggle killing 1 person alone in a zerg fight, even if they down one, they can't finish him. Chrono destroys dozens of them with just gravs, shield 5s and pulls, maybe GS shatter combos if you opt for that build.

Its just simple math: Save a few people + kill a few people = you're worth more than a few people.

Yes boonshare chrono was easier to play and you might miss it with all your heart, but Chrono itself is compeletely viable in WvW. The spec being realint on another traitline is not acceptable balancing though but I am just countering your arguments of Chrono being dead rather than discussing that topic.

Lol it's si funny when people reply without Even readingVeil: You mean that 2 seconds stealth with a huge visual tell? No thx commanders prefer sceappers for that massive smoke field with no visual clues.iol: as i stated is a stupid skill, between warclaws and powercreep that skill has so much delay it almost never works as intended.Double grav well: are You kidding me ? I just stated it's impossible to land one with the one clone requirement, do You Even play mesmer? i tried every single setup i could in order to generate clones in the middle of zerg fights, even the retaliation on clones trait, you know what happens? they get destroyed almost at the same time they are casted.Greatsword: m8 i already talked about gs in zerg, its as usefull as a shortbow soulbeast, You can't defend yourself at all, thats why everyone uses scepter, same Range dmg but with a free hand and a block, gs only works for roaming.

And btw if what i want back is boonshare i would ask for signets rework, but if You have read what i'm posting My complains revolve around cc dps Chrono(that DOMI-chaos-chrono build you are talking about), no one is expecting boonshare to come back. Also i was always talking about organized groups, i already know that when someone plays casually it doesent really matter which Build ir class he is using.

Plz next time You try school Simeone take the time to read what he's saying before writing, it's so infuriating to get this kind of replies. All of what You said is completely inaccurate and was already adressed in my original post

And if You still disagree go Build a Chrono try to "save some people, kill some others" with that joke of a res skills, and that single Gravity well, try to land that stupid iol skill in between warclaws finishes, and try not to get destroyed landing that single Gravity well with Focus pull, without on demand distortion, stability or heals, hope your fb keeps right beside You at all times.(because in case You don't know it has a really short Range, we aren't like backline eles throwing meteors)

I said dueling, you can just dodge to summon a clone and shatter afterwards before the clone gets destroyed.

I am sorry but it is literally impossible to fail this unless you click both your dodge bar and shatter with your mouse, neither of which you should do.

really m8 start to read the whole post, already talked about dueling too, chrono need chaos (survability, ci, random boons) and domination (boonstrip, cc , damage on interrupts) dueling is a roaming trait line, used for dueling builds not zerg fights, and PLZ START READING WHAT I WRITE DONT MAKE ME WASTE MY TIME.

"i tried every single setup i could in order to generate clones in the middle of zerg fights, even the retaliation on clones trait, you know what happens? they get destroyed almost at the same time they are casted."

i litteraly wrote this 3 minutes ago you didn't even read it, ill explain it better for you, you are in a zerg fight, necros start to spam the red sea, revs use their burst skills, you are in close range already in combat (so you can prok clones on dodges) and those aoe from necros, or rev burst skills reks them before you can even react or o use f4, also i can see you dont even play mesmer, so ill explain the double gravity well for you, in order to use that you have to first cast grav well, wait for the last second before cast and use f4 in the middle.So you are actually recommending me to enter combat AGAINST A ZERG dodge to prok a clone, start using gravity well (2 sec casting) use f4 and then use the second well?Do you understand what's wrong now? in those 2-3 seconds of precast the clone you had for triggering f4 gets destroyed!!!

Plz m8, READ!!! if not, stop commenting, you clearly don't know well how chrono / mes works. saying gs can work in zerg fights... So don't make me waste my time, trying to convince me a class you don't even play works.

And if what you really meant is to generate 3 clones so f4 can last long enough to cast gravity well that confirms you don't even play mesmer on pve, or you never been in a large fight with a chrono build. (you will lose the first clones before even casting the second or third one)