Poll NERF Results - your thoughts?

[Thundabolt.8541]

A small poll on a small forum cannot be used as a verification of the majority's opinion on each individual class.That said, certain numbers were significantly higher (and lower) than others. I'll provide the results from lowest to highest.

The reason I made these polls was because I believe it's very difficult to understand what a community wants just by reading each and every single opinion one-by-one. Sometimes it's best to start off simple, and looking at the highest and lowest numbers couldn't be a simpler way to begin. It's not recommended that changes are made simply based on these numbers, but it is something worth looking at.

• The class that received the LOWEST amount of nerf votes IN TOTAL was Elementalist.
• The class that received the HIGHEST amount of nerf votes IN TOTAL was Warrior.
• The poll that received the least amount of votes in general was the HoT nerf poll.
• The poll that received the most amount of votes in general was the PoF nerf poll.

Now for the specifics:

• CORE Warrior (1st) and CORE Thief (2nd) received the highest amounts of nerf votes in the CORE poll, with the runner-up being CORE Guardian.
• The lowest CORE nerf score was Revenant, Necromancer and Engineer, each with only 1 vote.
• HERALD (1st) and DRAGONHUNTER (2nd) received the highest amount of nerf votes in the HoT poll, with the runner-up being CHRONOMANCER.
• The class that received the lowest HoT nerf score was Reaper, with zero votes.
• SCOURGE (1st) and FIREBRAND (2nd) received the highest amount of nerf votes in the PoF poll, with the runner-up being HOLOSMITH.
• The class that received the lowest PoF nerf score was both Weaver and Renegade, with zero votes.

(There was also a CORE buff poll, in which Engineer and Necro gained the most votes, with Elementalist as the runner-up, and Revenant as a worthy mention.)

---

I think I used the wrong terms for these polls. "Nerf" and "buff" are a little too... accusatory? I would probably have gotten more positive responses, had I asked "which classes are in good standards" and "which classes are poorly balanced".

If you think about it, Warrior, Thief and Guardian are probably good class picks for those with F2P accounts. You have three options, which is a nice number when thinking about what you want out of WvW -- solo roaming (Thief), roaming and zerging (Warrior, Guardian). Reading people's comments there, a lot of people would've preferred to have voted "none" which is fair enough as well.

This year's HoT buffs definitely saw an increase in the usage of classes like Berserker, and Tempest. I've personally had a lot of fun with Scrapper this year, too.I saw a lot of nerf votes for Chronomancer, but I'm guessing those were just leftover votes from before it got hit with a crippling nerf.Reading people's comments, they seemed to mostly feel that HoT's classes were fine.

The results of the PoF poll... yeesh. I'm glad I didn't make a buff poll for that. But, it seems that most people mentioned the Scourge/Firebrand combo, and the pirateship build.I learned how to play Firebrand in PvP, so I admit that when I'm roaming with friends, I tend to jump onto it when we're getting ganked over and over. It does its job very well. A little too well, according to the comments. Since Necro is my least played class, I won't comment on Scourge, other than to say that it got a lot of attention overall.

I think I understand why it can be difficult to put the right changes on certain classes. WvW has such a massively outspoken community, and roaming and zerging are two completely different things.

Arenanet are like a socially-awkward person that don't know how to ask the right questions to better ascertain what would be best for everyone. But I think it's a good sign that they're starting to post balance suggestions and are asking for community feedback instead of just dropping the nerfs and buffs on us out of nowhere. However, it would still be nice to hear where they get their source information from.

I'll finish on the questions I should've asked before:

Which classes do you feel are poorly balanced, and which classes do you feel are an example of good balance standards?

[Adamsdjr.1350]

I had to make sure I was in the WvW section of the forums when I read that people wanted warrior nerfed. Seriously, why?

Nerf: Scourge, Firebrand, Rev, Scrapper, holoBuff: Chrono, Tempest,Adjust:

1. Weaver. Tone down its roaming capabilities a bit because it's currently unkillable if played well. Buff its group fight by giving the class a reflect wall in Air Attunment (staff)
2. Ranger. Nerf pewpew, it's anti fun and needs to go. Help them in groups by improving stance sharing capabilities
3. Warrior. Shift focus from being unkillable to being useful.

Rework:Base Necromancer's shroud could be reworked into a melee-style tanky boon corrupter/support

[bluberblasen.9684]

Buff elementalist Mainhand dagger especially air 1 range back to 300.

Nerf holo sustain especially heat therapy and or increase the downtime for holo mode.Nerf / rework / remove perma stealth. The rest on thief / dare devil/ dead eye is balanced.

Nerf spellbreaker / core warrior sustain especially heal gain on self mightNerf scourge especially barrier ( reaper and core are balanced)

Nerf weaver: twist of fate ( because all other utility skills are bad and this skill is the reason weaver are good and elementalist doesn't need two jail free cards in 5 seconds. Bad play should be punished and not rewarded.)Buff weaver: damage and bad trait lines after twist of fate is adjusted.

Reduce defender buff and bloodlust stats.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@bluberblasen.9684 said:Buff elementalist Mainhand dagger especially air 1 range back to 300.

Nerf holo sustain especially heat therapy and or increase the downtime for holo mode.Nerf / rework / remove perma stealth. The rest on thief / dare devil/ dead eye is balanced.

Nerf spellbreaker / core warrior sustain especially heal gain on self mightNerf scourge especially barrier ( reaper and core are balanced)

Nerf weaver: twist of fate ( because all other utility skills are bad and this skill is the reason weaver are good and elementalist doesn't need two jail free cards in 5 seconds. Bad play should be punished and not rewarded.)Buff weaver: damage and bad trait lines after twist of fate is adjusted.

Reduce defender buff and bloodlust stats.

Twist of Fate is fine, your hate for Sword and Love for Dagger doesnt mean you have to destroy sword xD Spellbreaker is pretty okay in a zerg situation, Scourge barrier is already getting nerfed, Perma stealth is dumb

[Dagger.2035]

I don't think the current situation can be fixed with buffs or nerfs. The elite specs weren't designed with WvW in mind and ArenaNet's vision for some professions limit their success in zergs. Ranger having mainly single target attacks for example.

I don't get the Weaver hate. It seems like a really limited elite spec without any ranged attacks. Either you spec for sustain and do no damage, or you spec for damage and have no sustain. This makes it ok for solo roaming, decent in havoc, and awful in large groups.

[Widmo.3186]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@"bluberblasen.9684" said:Buff elementalist Mainhand dagger especially air 1 range back to 300.

Nerf holo sustain especially heat therapy and or increase the downtime for holo mode.Nerf / rework / remove perma stealth. The rest on thief / dare devil/ dead eye is balanced.

Nerf spellbreaker / core warrior sustain especially heal gain on self mightNerf scourge especially barrier ( reaper and core are balanced)

Nerf weaver: twist of fate ( because all other utility skills are bad and this skill is the reason weaver are good and elementalist doesn't need two jail free cards in 5 seconds. Bad play should be punished and not rewarded.)Buff weaver: damage and bad trait lines after twist of fate is adjusted.

Reduce defender buff and bloodlust stats.

Twist of Fate is fine, your hate for Sword and Love for Dagger doesnt mean you have to destroy sword xD

But dude, i dont like sword, and those ppl are playing sword, while im playing dagger, they are playing sword, i feel bad for them playing sword, dagger is superior, everyone should play dagger, and core, weaver is bad, they play weaver, i play core, i feel bad for them playing weaver, lets all play core, core and dagger are superior, weaver and sword are bad.This guy is unreconstructed. His post is like "nerf everything (holo, teef, Spellbroken, Scourge) also Weaver, and the only class/thing i want to be buffed is ele dagger". Nice objectivism. ToF is one of the main reasons Weaver is playable and I dont think it should be touched. Only thing that might deserve nerf in Weaver skillset is condi damage of fireweaver build. Rest is fine.

Imo what deserves first place nerf is holo, then maybe condi teef, rest are minor issues.

@Adamsdjr.1350 said:

1. Weaver. Tone down its roaming capabilities a bit because it's currently unkillable if played well. Buff it's group fight by giving the class a reflect wall in Air Attunment (staff)

So now we are punishing spec because people that play it good are unkillable? Nerf should hit classes that are unkillable when played bad, not unkillable when players are playing well. Let me guess, you tried your chances against some1 and he wrecked you all over? Try playing this class by yourself, it has at best 3 gapclosers and overall small range, play around it. And I assure you, if you know what youre doing 2v1 vs Weaver is easy, 1v1 needs hard counter/decent mechanical skills of yours.

I also dont agree with scrapper nerf and core necro rework, but thats another story, wanted just to talk about Weaver.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Widmo.3186 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@"bluberblasen.9684" said:Buff elementalist Mainhand dagger especially air 1 range back to 300.

Nerf holo sustain especially heat therapy and or increase the downtime for holo mode.Nerf / rework / remove perma stealth. The rest on thief / dare devil/ dead eye is balanced.

Nerf spellbreaker / core warrior sustain especially heal gain on self mightNerf scourge especially barrier ( reaper and core are balanced)

Nerf weaver: twist of fate ( because all other utility skills are bad and this skill is the reason weaver are good and elementalist doesn't need two jail free cards in 5 seconds. Bad play should be punished and not rewarded.)Buff weaver: damage and bad trait lines after twist of fate is adjusted.

Reduce defender buff and bloodlust stats.

Twist of Fate is fine, your hate for Sword and Love for Dagger doesnt mean you have to destroy sword xD

But dude, i dont like sword, and those ppl are playing sword, while im playing dagger, they are playing sword, i feel bad for them playing sword, dagger is superior, everyone should play dagger, and core, weaver is bad, they play weaver, i play core, i feel bad for them playing weaver, lets all play core, core and dagger are superior, weaver and sword are bad.This guy is unreconstructed. His post is like "nerf everything (holo, teef, Spellbroken, Scourge) also Weaver, and the only class/thing i want to be buffed is ele dagger". Nice objectivism. ToF is one of the main reasons Weaver is playable and I dont think it should be touched. Only thing that might deserve nerf in Weaver skillset is condi damage of fireweaver build. Rest is fine.

Imo what deserves first place nerf is holo, then maybe condi teef, rest are minor issues.

This is true, Generally I think we all know Condi on weaver will be getting nerfed due to it's potential in PvE

[Axl.8924]

@Adamsdjr.1350 said:I had to make sure I was in the WvW section of the forums when I read that people wanted warrior nerfed. Seriously, why?

Nerf: Scourge, Firebrand, Rev, Scrapper, holoBuff: Chrono, Tempest,Adjust:

1. Weaver. Tone down its roaming capabilities a bit because it's currently unkillable if played well. Buff it's group fight by giving the class a reflect wall in Air Attunment (staff)
2. Ranger. Nerf pewpew, it's anti fun and needs to go. Help them in groups by improving stance sharing capabilities
3. Warrior. Shift focus from being unkillable to being useful.

Rework:Base Necromancer's shroud could be reworked into a melee-style tanky boon corrupter/support

I disagree as well i think we should get buff to core defensives for necro and also boon corrupt is only really useful in spvp and fractals of tier 2 and up. I also dislike being pidgeon holed into a role i don't want. What if i want to be a condi necro?

[XenesisII.1540]

Come on now, you know people overwhelmingly want to nerf mesmer, don't try to hide that behind meme voted polls!

@"Adamsdjr.1350" said:I had to make sure I was in the WvW section of the forums when I read that people wanted warrior nerfed. Seriously, why?

3. Warrior. Shift focus from being unkillable to being useful.

Probably why? No different than when engs were 1v3ing people and didn't see nothing wrong with that.And yes I've faced a few of those core warriors that are unkillable, mobile, and still pack a punch, where's the trade off?

[bluberblasen.9684]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@bluberblasen.9684 said:Buff elementalist Mainhand dagger especially air 1 range back to 300.

Nerf holo sustain especially heat therapy and or increase the downtime for holo mode.Nerf / rework / remove perma stealth. The rest on thief / dare devil/ dead eye is balanced.

Nerf spellbreaker / core warrior sustain especially heal gain on self mightNerf scourge especially barrier ( reaper and core are balanced)

Nerf weaver: twist of fate ( because all other utility skills are bad and this skill is the reason weaver are good and elementalist doesn't need two jail free cards in 5 seconds. Bad play should be punished and not rewarded.)Buff weaver: damage and bad trait lines after twist of fate is adjusted.

Reduce defender buff and bloodlust stats.

Twist of Fate is fine, your hate for Sword and Love for Dagger doesnt mean you have to destroy sword xD Spellbreaker is pretty okay in a zerg situation, Scourge barrier is already getting nerfed, Perma stealth is dumb

xDyou made me laugh.i played weaver for a long time.. and my hate for sword startet at the start from the unnecessary dagger range nerf :/at this point i startet playing core and tempest only... like a little kid that you stole his lollipopjust ignore my anti weaver opinion.. and i will never say( post ) anything anginst my own class :)

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@bluberblasen.9684 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@bluberblasen.9684 said:Buff elementalist Mainhand dagger especially air 1 range back to 300.

Nerf holo sustain especially heat therapy and or increase the downtime for holo mode.Nerf / rework / remove perma stealth. The rest on thief / dare devil/ dead eye is balanced.

Nerf spellbreaker / core warrior sustain especially heal gain on self mightNerf scourge especially barrier ( reaper and core are balanced)

Nerf weaver: twist of fate ( because all other utility skills are bad and this skill is the reason weaver are good and elementalist doesn't need two jail free cards in 5 seconds. Bad play should be punished and not rewarded.)Buff weaver: damage and bad trait lines after twist of fate is adjusted.

Reduce defender buff and bloodlust stats.

Twist of Fate is fine, your hate for Sword and Love for Dagger doesnt mean you have to destroy sword xD Spellbreaker is pretty okay in a zerg situation, Scourge barrier is already getting nerfed, Perma stealth is dumb

xDyou made me laugh.i played weaver for a long time.. and my hate for sword startet at the start from the unnecessary dagger range nerf :/at this point i startet playing core and tempest only... like a little kid that you stole his lollipopjust ignore my anti weaver opinion.. and i will never say( post ) anything anginst my own class :)

Pretty dumb, I and many others enjoy playing Ele,Tempest and Weaver it's a pretty fun class to play, but because you can't handle weaver you want it to be non existent and you probably want the days of Cele DD ele to be back so you can think to yourself that you are amazing and everyone else needs to get gud, I myself have played Ele since beta and although I enjoyed dagger myself, Sword Weaver is just as fun to play with and generally is balanced compared to other elite specs.

[Adamsdjr.1350]

@XenesisII.1540 said:Come on now, you know people overwhelmingly want to nerf mesmer, don't try to hide that behind meme voted polls!

@"Adamsdjr.1350" said:I had to make sure I was in the WvW section of the forums when I read that

people wanted warrior nerfed. Seriously, why

?

3. Warrior.
   Shift focus from being unkillable
   to being useful.

Probably why? No different than when engs were 1v3ing people and didn't see nothing wrong with that.And yes I've faced a few of those core warriors that are unkillable, mobile, and still pack a punch, where's the trade off?

Being unkillable doesn't make something overpowered. If they were unkillable AND actually did something, then it would be broken. They don't do much in this meta theyre just annoying.

[XenesisII.1540]

You're right, for instance there's a huge difference between an unkillable war and unkillable ele, one gives up a lot of killing power one doesn't. When something can slap on auto defenses and still able to hit you for 5-8k a hit, where's the trade off? (and please don't try to insult us by saying they hit like wet noodles)

Frankly no skill in the game should allow you to do damage while taking no damage, like mistform, shield stance, renewed focus are all balanced in this way.