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Players Asking for dps check without knowking the boss mechanics in fractal


SeikeNz.3526

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:why some players don't even learn the boss mechanics before asking for dps? they just want to kill it before they need to evade, if for some reason the boss do something different they just die and harass other players with lower dps

Thats their goal on that run. They want to skip mechanics with good dps. Thats the reason why players do raids with Solo healer aswell instead of 2 or 3 healers.

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welcome to pugging in any game ever, where other people will blame you for their personal failures reguardless of whos actually to blame.

if ppl have low dps you should be doing mechanics anyway even in t4, it boggles my mind too why someone would blame on another their inability to press the dodge key, but hey, thats randoms for you. howeverrrrr, sometimes you have a comp made for high dps only and so failing a "dps check" is difficult to recover from because no one brought support and the lack of a healer/aegis etc can make doing a mechanic really difficult, where with high dps you would never have came across that problem.

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@"Lexi.1398" said:welcome to pugging in any game ever, where other people will blame you for their personal failures reguardless of whos actually to blame.

if ppl have low dps you should be doing mechanics anyway even in t4, it boggles my mind too why someone would blame on another their inability to press the dodge key, but hey, thats randoms for you. howeverrrrr, sometimes you have a comp made for high dps only and so failing a "dps check" is difficult to recover from because no one brought support and the lack of a healer/aegis etc can make doing a mechanic really difficult, where with high dps you would never have came across that problem.

It's interesting that nowadays people think the only way to have big sick dps is bring 5 dps in t4. When no one play support, 5 dps means 5 corpses.

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@Rodrick.1942 said:

@"Lexi.1398" said:welcome to pugging in any game ever, where other people will blame you for their personal failures reguardless of whos actually to blame.

if ppl have low dps you should be doing mechanics anyway even in t4, it boggles my mind too why someone would blame on another their inability to press the dodge key, but hey, thats randoms for you. howeverrrrr, sometimes you have a comp made for high dps only and so failing a "dps check" is difficult to recover from because no one brought support and the lack of a healer/aegis etc can make doing a mechanic really difficult, where with high dps you would never have came across that problem.

It's interesting that nowadays people think the only way to have big sick dps is bring 5 dps in t4. When no one play support, 5 dps means 5 corpses.

Depends on the group. Also before there was support builds, 5 dps was the usual approach to fractals with maybe a mesmer or guardian for reflects.

There is 2 general ways to do T4 CMs. Full dps no healer (while bringing hybrid supports for boons/benefits), or 1 heal and 4 dps (with again some hybrid support for boons/bendits not provided by healers).

Regular T4 follow the same pattern. Get good enough to not bring a healer (because even if you phase or skip mechanics, you have to avoid other mechanics up to that point) or bring a healer to carry the group. Personally l prefer running a healer for normal T4 (and no healer for CM) simply because some T4 fractals throw a lot of trash and effects at the group and not every player decides to avoid all mechanics.

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@"BRNBRITO.9624" said:My favorite is seeing Daredevils with Thieves guild on 99/100CM.

"Basilisk Venom is bad, Thieves guild does a lot of damage".

Sure does when no one CCs the boss and you just auto-attack instead of helping with 750 CC and getting 50% modifier to burn with signet and actual skills :)

DD with thieves guild on any boss with cc. That elite does 40k damage on a incredible long cd and casttime. Its almost never worth it.

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@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"BRNBRITO.9624" said:My favorite is seeing Daredevils with Thieves guild on 99/100CM.

"Basilisk Venom is bad, Thieves guild does a lot of damage".

Sure does when no one CCs the boss and you just auto-attack instead of helping with 750 CC and getting 50% modifier to burn with signet and actual skills :)

DD with thieves guild on any boss with cc. That elite does 40k damage on a incredible long cd and casttime. Its almost never worth it.

Problem is people just copy-paste golem builds/rotations and think they're doing fine

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@"BRNBRITO.9624" said:My favorite is seeing Daredevils with Thieves guild on 99/100CM.

"Basilisk Venom is bad, Thieves guild does a lot of damage".

Sure does when no one CCs the boss and you just auto-attack instead of helping with 750 CC and getting 50% modifier to burn with signet and actual skills :)

This is why its important to change traits and skills depending on the fight. Some fights its ok to go full dps and some fights you just must CC :)

Some days i also just go full signet when running with static, lol.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Idk, I'd say that having good dps is a baseline.It's, like, when you drive a car withing speed limit and suddenly someone just walks onto the road, no indication, no crosswalk, and you hit them, you don't go 'huh, I should've been more careful,' rather 'wtf, who even does that,' except you curse way, which I can't do here because of our fair and benevolent moderators.

It's not someone's fault that they don't know how to react to a mechanic that's not showing up when people are playing well, but killed them this time because you had 5k dps on a dragonhunter.It's like on this meme, is that some casual joke I'm actually too competent to understand?

@dodgerrule.8739 said:This is just a tactic to try and claim them being better by skipping mechanics.But people who are able to skip mechanics by doing good dps are better than people who have to do them because they can't push buttons in a sequence for a few minutes

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@shejesa.3712 said:Idk, I'd say that having good dps is a baseline.It's, like, when you drive a car withing speed limit and suddenly someone just walks onto the road, no indication, no crosswalk, and you hit them, you don't go 'huh, I should've been more careful,' rather 'kitten, who even does that,' except you curse way, which I can't do here because of our fair and benevolent moderators.

It's not someone's fault that they don't know how to react to a mechanic that's not showing up when people are playing well, but killed them this time because you had 5k dps on a dragonhunter.It's like on this meme, is that some casual joke I'm actually too competent to understand?

@dodgerrule.8739 said:This is just a tactic to try and claim them being better by skipping mechanics.But people who are able to skip mechanics by doing good dps are better than people who have to do them because they can't push buttons in a sequence for a few minutes

and this is why dps meters get a bad name, certain users think big numbers and fast kills/spamming rotations/wearing zerg gear is more important than interesting gameplay. They also forget people have been happily clearing fractals without thgis kind of attitude. Something has gradually changed, and its not those people happily clearing years ago.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@shejesa.3712 said:Idk, I'd say that having good dps is a baseline.It's, like, when you drive a car withing speed limit and suddenly someone just walks onto the road, no indication, no crosswalk, and you hit them, you don't go 'huh, I should've been more careful,' rather 'kitten, who even does that,' except you curse way, which I can't do here because of our fair and benevolent moderators.

It's not someone's fault that they don't know how to react to a mechanic that's not showing up when people are playing well, but killed them this time because you had 5k dps on a dragonhunter.It's like on this meme, is that some casual joke I'm actually too competent to understand?

@dodgerrule.8739 said:This is just a tactic to try and claim them being better by skipping mechanics.But people who are able to skip mechanics by doing good dps are better than people who have to do them because they can't push buttons in a sequence for a few minutes

and this is why dps meters get a bad name, certain users think big numbers and fast kills/spamming rotations/wearing zerg gear is more important than interesting gameplay. They also forget people have been happily clearing fractals without thgis kind of attitude. Something has gradually changed, and its not those people happily clearing years ago.

I've been clearing fractals since 2 weeks after they were introduced into the game.

There were hardcore groups in the past, there were way worse rewards, there was way less players playing fractrals at the top end.

I had to ping gear regularly. Was required to run the correct class and exchange utility skills if need be. Most often people knew each other since the actual fractal community was tiny at the top end.

Damage meters did not change anything which was not present already. The increase in rewards and players as well as mega servers did the rest. That is in no way the fault of damage meters.

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And as before many many players happily cleared fractals without a need to "ping' gear or use meters. This is a behavioural issue that stems from a raiding culture.

Re dmg meters, the developers of ff14 conducted some behavioral analysis and it confirmed meters do cause toxic behaviour and have banned anyone from talking about meter statistics in game. Incidentally ff14 probably has the most friendly least toxic community of any any mmorpg.

Furthermore if you correlate toxicity with meter usage I'm betting there would be a strong correlation. Just check wow at the end of the spectrum to see where this can go.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:And as before many many players happily cleared fractals without a need to "ping' gear or use meters. This is a behavioural issue that stems from a raiding culture.

and players are clearing content currently too without having to use damage meters or being subject to people complaining.

The only problems arise is when players underperform severly, or if the other person had been toxic eitherway (as in the past).

Just out of curiosity, since you are rather often bringing up fractals, what is your level of fractal experience in this game?

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Re dmg meters, the developers of ff14 conducted some behavioral analysis and it confirmed meters do cause toxic behaviour and have banned anyone from talking about meter statistics in game. Incidentally ff14 probably has the most friendly least toxic community of any any mmorpg.

Yes, they banned toxicity and toxic behavior, not damage meters. That's the same here by the way.

So we have concluded that neither FF14 nor GW2 allow for toxic behavior but both allow the use of damage meters. Your point?

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Furthermore if you correlate toxicity with meter usage I'm betting there would be a strong correlation. Just check wow at the end of the spectrum to see where this can go.

and I'd bet that if you correlate vast performance differences between players in a group, no matter if a damage meter is present or not, toxicity would rise too, expecially if things go bad.

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@"vesica tempestas.1563" said:And as before many many players happily cleared fractals without a need to "ping' gear or use meters. This is a behavioural issue that stems from a raiding culture.

Re dmg meters, the developers of ff14 conducted some behavioral analysis and it confirmed meters do cause toxic behaviour and have banned anyone from talking about meter statistics in game. Incidentally ff14 probably has the most friendly least toxic community of any any mmorpg.

Furthermore if you correlate toxicity with meter usage I'm betting there would be a strong correlation. Just check wow at the end of the spectrum to see where this can

If by raiding culture you mean using objective data to make informed decisions about the team then yes I agree. People fear objective data because it is undisputable.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:and this is why dps meters get a bad name, certain users think big numbers and fast kills/spamming rotations/wearing zerg gear is more important than interesting gameplay. They also forget people have been happily clearing fractals without thgis kind of attitude. Something has gradually changed, and its not those people happily clearing years ago.

Your analysis of this situation skips the fact that even the gw2 encounters which feature truly interesting mechanics become more and more mundane with an increasing number of clears, while the importance of attaining the endreward tends to grow. Which is where faster completion times and generally higher damage output come in.Fortunately you get the obligatory bonus points for deciding which players have fun the wrong way and how to do it right.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

and this is why dps meters get a bad name, certain users think big numbers and fast kills/spamming rotations/wearing zerg gear is more important than interesting gameplay. They also forget people have been happily clearing fractals without thgis kind of attitude. Something has gradually changed, and its not those people happily clearing years ago.

That 'something' is the knowledge of the game accessible to us. It's natural that you can accept a small kid to get his diaper messy, but once you know how to sit on a toilet you're expected to do it.It's basically the same thing, when you know how you can deal dps you're expected to deal dps. it's simple as that. If you don't want to deal dps, don't join teams that are optimized, make your own 'chill run no elitism' and keep failing on skovald

Re dmg meters, the developers of ff14 conducted some behavioral analysis and it confirmed meters do cause toxic behaviour and have banned anyone from talking about meter statistics in game. Incidentally ff14 probably has the most friendly least toxic community of any any mmorpg.

Have you ever heard about policing speech?

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@shejesa.3712 said:

and this is why dps meters get a bad name, certain users think big numbers and fast kills/spamming rotations/wearing zerg gear is more important than interesting gameplay. They also forget people have been happily clearing fractals without thgis kind of attitude. Something has gradually changed, and its not those people happily clearing years ago.

That 'something' is the knowledge of the game accessible to us. It's natural that you can accept a small kid to get his diaper messy, but once you know how to sit on a toilet you're expected to do it.It's basically the same thing, when you know how you can deal dps you're expected to deal dps. it's simple as that. If you don't want to deal dps, don't join teams that are optimized, make your own 'chill run no elitism' and keep failing on skovald

That's STILL a player-determined requirement. The fact is that the game is designed so that you DON'T need that knowledge to the extent that a DPS meter is necessary to filter people out. The question here has NEVER been about if you CAN, you SHOULD. It's about recognizing the game doesn't not require it for success.

Either way, I think it's amusing at this point because the more people insist on these high levels of performance from the playerbase, the more they exclude people they can play with ... players aren't stupid and if you don't want them in your team because they don't do what you think they should (even when it's not necessary), that only hurts you, not them.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

and this is why dps meters get a bad name, certain users think big numbers and fast kills/spamming rotations/wearing zerg gear is more important than interesting gameplay. They also forget people have been happily clearing fractals without thgis kind of attitude. Something has gradually changed, and its not those people happily clearing years ago.

That 'something' is the knowledge of the game accessible to us. It's natural that you can accept a small kid to get his diaper messy, but once you know how to sit on a toilet you're expected to do it.It's basically the same thing, when you know how you can deal dps you're expected to deal dps. it's simple as that. If you don't want to deal dps, don't join teams that are optimized, make your own 'chill run no elitism' and keep failing on skovald

That's STILL a player-determined requirement. The fact is that the game is designed so that you DON'T need that knowledge to the extent that a DPS meter is necessary to filter people out. The question here has NEVER been about if you CAN, you SHOULD. It's about recognizing the game doesn't not require it for success.

Either way, I think it's amusing at this point because the more people insist on these high levels of performance from the playerbase, the more they exclude people they can play with ... players aren't stupid and if you don't want them in your team because they don't do what you think they should (even when it's not necessary), that only hurts you, not them.

It doesnt hurt the side that want certain level of skill at all. Looks to me like you are not that type of player so you dont understand the mentality behind that.

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Dps make people toxic as much as spoons make people overweight. It is surprising how in 2019 we still demonize a TOOL, nothing more, by using arguments like "gdpr", "toxicity", "behavioral issues" etc. Toxic people will be toxic, dps meters or no, they ALWAYS find a tool to excuse their behavior, be it AP or gear check or zodiac signs (if youre into those, anyway) or whatever. The vast majority doesnt ask anyone to do 95% of snowcrow benchmarks (unless you join such a group) , they care if you should do 12-15k or more (with a benchmark of 35k) and you do 5k. A dps meters is an objective way of seeing if you even remotely pull your weight. Thats it. No, I dont use dps meters. I did for a few days in wvw to see my corrupts, uninstalled it since.

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

and this is why dps meters get a bad name, certain users think big numbers and fast kills/spamming rotations/wearing zerg gear is more important than interesting gameplay. They also forget people have been happily clearing fractals without thgis kind of attitude. Something has gradually changed, and its not those people happily clearing years ago.

That 'something' is the knowledge of the game accessible to us. It's natural that you can accept a small kid to get his diaper messy, but once you know how to sit on a toilet you're expected to do it.It's basically the same thing, when you know how you can deal dps you're expected to deal dps. it's simple as that. If you don't want to deal dps, don't join teams that are optimized, make your own 'chill run no elitism' and keep failing on skovald

That's STILL a player-determined requirement. The fact is that the game is designed so that you DON'T need that knowledge to the extent that a DPS meter is necessary to filter people out. The question here has NEVER been about if you CAN, you SHOULD. It's about recognizing the game doesn't not require it for success.

Either way, I think it's amusing at this point because the more people insist on these high levels of performance from the playerbase, the more they exclude people they can play with ... players aren't stupid and if you don't want them in your team because they don't do what you think they should (even when it's not necessary), that only hurts you, not them.

It doesnt hurt the side that want certain level of skill at all. Looks to me like you are not that type of player so you dont understand the mentality behind that.

Yes it does, because you artificially restrict who you play with based on a player-imposed set of rules.

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