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Concerns about Elementalist


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PvE tempest heal

I wish Superior Rune of Radiance upgraded their 6-bonus from 33% to 50% (not a massive improve but 5 seconds something is just awkward) and also the vitality bonus was replaced with a healing bonus or have somewhere in the water line a conversion from vit to healing power or something, considering that usually we do use some Magi stuff (and there's no enhancement that does that conversion). I just wish we could break away from monk runes being the defacto healing runes on tempest heal or any other healer really.

Wild idea: Make "Eye of The Storm!" give quickness (10sec), and Speedy Conduit give 4sec on overloads, in addition to the existing swiftness. In raid you would trait Tempestuous Aria to get the shout to 10 people covering quickness (like an alac renegade would do with the Righteous Rebel trait).

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  • 1 month later...

I do so love my elementalists, but my biggest problem is that I am exhausted from smashing a thousand buttons in very precise patterns in an ever shifting fast paced environment; Meanwhile at the same time, having to an entirely different order of button mashing only to die to someone who roll dodged through it all and was able to do enough damage through any defense we can muster with less effort than it took to actually to prepare the defense. Engineers are a very close second, but they have the ability to escape FAR greater than we do in nearly every build they muster.

I consider the elementalist as a lost design philosophy. It's escaped and loose and I have been in the acceptance stage of grief for years now. I find the question of balance exhausting. Shaving percents of a second until there's nothing left. As buff dispensers were decent, but so very easily thwarted.

I'm also kinda exhausted of the fact that other professions get some really nifty and new takes on their roles, and we get Tempest (a line that pretty much gives a little extra edge as an auramancer) and then we get Weaver, which to me just seemed like someone dared to ask the question: "But, what would happen if a Tempest moved to the front line instead of the mid line?"

Or we can sit on our staffs and be absolutely bored.

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  • 7 months later...

It really makes no sense that Mesmers and Necromancer has such high health pools while eles are so low while the mesmers and necromancers have such good sustain. mesmer also has stealth and clones while necros have shroud. Maybe a long time ago when elementalist could actually sustain themselves with healing and regen but now that those mechanics have been nerfed to oblivion goodluck surviving. I'm probably going to just swap classes, most likely necro for it's sustain and ability to rip boons and transfer conditions. why fight the meta, ill go with whats number 1 . Elementalist used to be fun :/. wish they'd give ele some sustain or do away with the health differentials. Its been a couple years since i was a hardcore gw2 player, coming back, ele feels like a glass butter knife compared to the other classes. The game has also become a stun and condi dump. which sucks because the 2 ele abilities that would have helped them against this situation got nerfed.

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I won't comment on core as I don't play it, but both weaver and tempest definitely do not lack sustain. You've got access to tons of barrier, auras, evades, stunbreaks, hard and soft CC, condi application, cleanses.... so if you are struggling to survive, maybe you should tweak your build. Yes, all of the above was toned down in the big patch, but so the nerfs were across all classes, so it's fair. The only thing that I would personally like to have - is a more access to stabilit, which after the patch is very limited, "Rework" of focus 5 was also terrible but still we can live with it.
Also, necros have high HP because they have almost nothing of the above - stunbreaks are very little and stab access is even lower. Mesmers don't have massive HP - they are in the middle range, and actually now that mirage has 1 dodge, and chrono is unplayable anywhere outside of raids, I wouldn't call the class OP.

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@"ollbirtan.2915" said:I won't comment on core as I don't play it, but both weaver and tempest definitely do not lack sustain. You've got access to tons of barrier, auras, evades, stunbreaks, hard and soft CC, condi application, cleanses.... so if you are struggling to survive, maybe you should tweak your build. Yes, all of the above was toned down in the big patch, but so the nerfs were across all classes, so it's fair. The only thing that I would personally like to have - is a more access to stabilit, which after the patch is very limited, "Rework" of focus 5 was also terrible but still we can live with it.

Also, necros have high HP because they have almost nothing of the above - stunbreaks are very little and stab access is even lower. Mesmers don't have massive HP - they are in the middle range, and actually now that mirage has 1 dodge, and chrono is unplayable anywhere outside of raids, I wouldn't call the class OP.

Few things only weaver has good barrier and evasion tempest at best has good side support for it self best not to lump them together or you lose out on a lot of missing effects. Ele core got hit hard in the nerf it gets hard in every update to feed the elite spec. there a good reason why you never played the core ele class.

Necros have better stab then ele (if you lump the elite spec and core all into one lol) Mesmer has stealth that alone is a massive buff to its staying power if your going that type of build (agen if you lump the elite spec together).

My point core ele is super neglected and keeps getting nerfed to make its elite spec. balanced. Most ppl who talk about these things lump the classes together to fill there logic and its just not a good way of looking at the game.

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You missing my point entirely. I already said that I only speak about Tempest and Weaver - the only 2 eSpecs I play. I do not play core, so I can't comment on that. Also, guardian is probably one of the few truly 'viable' core professions, so it's not like ele is unique in being subpar without an eSpec.

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ele can build for survivability for sure and do just fine not dying, but the problem is that ele has to invest fully in dps to do any damage. Their combat and access to special abilities is abysmal compared to other classes. They don't bring unique buffs like spotter or assassins presence, their personal might generation is mainly through blasting fire fields, their condition damage relies soley on fire which is only in 1/4 of their skills. To top it off their best weapon sets are all close range which puts ele in a tough position since they don't have a lot of access to protection or stability unless they take the worst traitline, earth. Sword and weaver is a good example of how they had to make the weapon full of evades because ele just can't hang in melee, yet both weaver and tempest are melee or close to melee specializations. They keep trying to shoehorn ele into being this pbaoe machine, but its the most paper thin class and doesn't have the spike damage of an assassin nor the in-and-out capabilities of the thief.

But seriously, why are all elite specs and half of the weapon choices for ele close range.

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@ScottBroChill.3254 said:

But seriously, why are all elite specs and half of the weapon choices for ele close range.

Because HoT spec was meant to be Sword but ran out of time so changed to Warhorn because that was the quickest and easiest way to get it done on time, then Sword obviously for PoF (who doesn't want a mage with sword?) Hopefully next elite spec will be a long range weapon.. I'd prefer Longbow as that is the weapon that fits Ele the best imo

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@ScottBroChill.3254 said:ele can build for survivability for sure and do just fine not dying, but the problem is that ele has to invest fully in dps to do any damage. Their combat and access to special abilities is abysmal compared to other classes. They don't bring unique buffs like spotter or assassins presence, their personal might generation is mainly through blasting fire fields, their condition damage relies soley on fire which is only in 1/4 of their skills. To top it off their best weapon sets are all close range which puts ele in a tough position since they don't have a lot of access to protection or stability unless they take the worst traitline, earth. Sword and weaver is a good example of how they had to make the weapon full of evades because ele just can't hang in melee, yet both weaver and tempest are melee or close to melee specializations. They keep trying to shoehorn ele into being this pbaoe machine, but its the most paper thin class and doesn't have the spike damage of an assassin nor the in-and-out capabilities of the thief.

But seriously, why are all elite specs and half of the weapon choices for ele close range.

Fire weaver is a bit better off because they don't have to commit fully to a single element. This means you can access most of your toolkit without actually fully leaving fire attunement.

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I must say i do like the fire GM updates they are very imaginative i would love to see boon lost effect pushed to the other atument traits. Water you lose reg for a powerful heal or resistance air lose fury for quickness or lost swiftness for super speed for earth lost protection for stab maybe even an arcain one though i have no ideal how it would work.

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Elementalist is the most complicated class that needs a rework and I can prove it.

And a point that I think it is super strange. The magician uses magic, he has staffs, scepters, orbs and attacks from afar. But in this game, the magicians' strongest weapon is a dagger or sword and you have to attack closely. The same thing for the Rangers, as the name says. But the strongest build is with a melee Greatsword.

Ok let's start.We all know that his damage / might boon is done by Fire, try another element and fail miserably.Other Classes: A weapon for Power build or Condi Build.Elementalist: Power, Healing, Condi and a miserable CC in every weapon.Note: If you want to do a high dps, better be friend of a Druid, Chrono or Firebrand.

Other Classes: They swap weapons to achieve greater damage or for a different attack strategy, Melee to Ranged.Elementalist: They Swap elements to survive a situation, thus giving up damage to heal or defend itself.Note: Let's compare it to Revenant, which is similar and at the same time opposite to Elementalist.Revenants change legendaries and their utilities skills change, elementalists change elements and their weapon skills change.Revenants can swap legendaries and weapons, none of them you will need to abstain from the damage.

Other Classes: 1 Healing skill, incredible healing/life steal traitline.Elementalist: A lot of horrible healing skills, horrible healing traitline.Note: To do a decent healing, smash your keyboard with healing skills and better you use the combo fields.

Engineer: Can't swap weapon because they have Kits and Belt, It's ok because they do their job. You can equip a kit whenever you want.Elementalist: Can't swap weapon because they have Attunements and Conjures, Conjures you have a long CD and this was done for standing battles, with you're running in open world your weapon will stay back and I'm so sorry for the long CD. Attunements, again,Real Damage, Healing, Low Damage, Low defense and low Condi.Note: Here it became such a mess that it is much better to rework than to try to improve it.

Traitline

Other Classes: Divide into Power, Condi, Survival, Healing, Protection...Elementalist: Divide into nothing, such a mess.Fire has survival, Power damage, Condi Damage, Fire Aura, Critical agains burning, might boon, fire field while downed.Water has Healing ofc, Damage on Vulnerability, Aura Share, Cleanse, regen boon, damage to low heath enemies.Air has Precision, Power damage, CC damage, Ferocity, Air fresh, fury boon, move faster, glyphs.Earth Condi damage, Cleanse, Protection boon, aura improvement,Arcane has Power, Survival, Ferocity, Condi damage, improve crit hits, all boons from above. AurasTempest has auras, damage and boons.Weaver has Vitality, condi, power, vigor, miserable barrier and swiftness, a lot of swiftness.Not even Revenant and Engineer has this messy traitlines.Engineers doesn't have a traitline for each Kit.Revenants doesn't have a traitline for each legendary.

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@JohnWater.5760 said:Elementalist is the most complicated class that needs a rework and I can prove it.! >! > And a point that I think it is super strange. The magician uses magic, he has staffs, scepters, orbs and attacks from afar. But in this game, the magicians' strongest weapon is a dagger or sword and you have to attack closely. The same thing for the Rangers, as the name says. But the strongest build is with a melee Greatsword.! >! > Ok let's start.! > We all know that his damage / might boon is done by Fire, try another element and fail miserably.! > Other Classes: A weapon for Power build or Condi Build.! > Elementalist: Power, Healing, Condi and a miserable CC in every weapon.! > Note: If you want to do a high dps, better be friend of a Druid, Chrono or Firebrand.! >! > Other Classes: They swap weapons to achieve greater damage or for a different attack strategy, Melee to Ranged.! > Elementalist: They Swap elements to survive a situation, thus giving up damage to heal or defend itself.! > Note: Let's compare it to Revenant, which is similar and at the same time opposite to Elementalist.! > Revenants change legendaries and their utilities skills change, elementalists change elements and their weapon skills change.! > Revenants can swap legendaries and weapons, none of them you will need to abstain from the damage.! >! > Other Classes: 1 Healing skill, incredible healing/life steal traitline.! > Elementalist: A lot of horrible healing skills, horrible healing traitline.! > Note: To do a decent healing, smash your keyboard with healing skills and better you use the combo fields.! >! > Engineer: Can't swap weapon because they have Kits and Belt, It's ok because they do their job. You can equip a kit whenever you want.! > Elementalist: Can't swap weapon because they have Attunements and Conjures, Conjures you have a long CD and this was done for standing battles, with you're running in open world your weapon will stay back and I'm so sorry for the long CD. Attunements, again,Real Damage, Healing, Low Damage, Low defense and low Condi.! > Note: Here it became such a mess that it is much better to rework than to try to improve it.! >! > # Traitline! > Other Classes: Divide into Power, Condi, Survival, Healing, Protection...! > Elementalist: Divide into nothing, such a mess.! > Fire has survival, Power damage, Condi Damage, Fire Aura, Critical agains burning, might boon, fire field while downed.! > Water has Healing ofc, Damage on Vulnerability, Aura Share, Cleanse, regen boon, damage to low heath enemies.! > Air has Precision, Power damage, CC damage, Ferocity, Air fresh, fury boon, move faster, glyphs.! > Earth Condi damage, Cleanse, Protection boon, aura improvement,! > Arcane has Power, Survival, Ferocity, Condi damage, improve crit hits, all boons from above. Auras! > Tempest has auras, damage and boons.! > Weaver has Vitality, condi, power, vigor, miserable barrier and swiftness, a lot of swiftness.! > Not even Revenant and Engineer has this messy traitlines.! > Engineers doesn't have a traitline for each Kit.! > Revenants doesn't have a traitline for each legendary.

Originally (Beta and the first few months after release), what you're mentioning very accurately, describes the price we paid for flexibility. Add to that the cost of lowest health and lowest armor and it seemed fair at the time. Fast forward a good number of years and literally everything we did well, were even the best at, has been given to other classes for almost free, yet nothing has been adjusted or given back proportionally in my opinion.

At this point I can only think of three possible things, which to be honest I'm not going to spend too much effort fleshing out since nothing in the old, or these newer forums ever made a difference.

1) Give us in combat weapon swap, everything we have comes pre-nerfed already. Or allow conjures to become the weapon swap, based on charges/ammo2) Remove Arcane trait line and merge into core class mechanics3) Rework every professions base stats from a finite pool: high armor = low something, high hp = low something, opposite applies too.

You know, it isn't healthy to be so upset by changes, I can't help it though. Ele has been my most loved class in any game I've played. They caused me to quit, they caused me to come back, it really has become a toxic relationship sadly.

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@"JohnWater.5760" said:Elementalist is the most complicated class that needs a rework and I can prove it.

Other Classes: 1 Healing skill, incredible healing/life steal traitline.Elementalist: A lot of horrible healing skills, horrible healing traitline.Note: To do a decent healing, smash your keyboard with healing skills and better you use the combo fields.

LoL

Ele heals:

Other classes:

Can you find your 6 key?

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"JohnWater.5760" said:Elementalist is the most complicated class that needs a rework and I can prove it.

Other Classes:
1 Healing skill, incredible healing/life steal traitline.
Elementalist:
A lot of horrible healing skills, horrible healing traitline.
Note: To do a decent healing, smash your keyboard with healing skills and better you use the combo fields.

LoL

Ele heals:

Other classes:

Can you find your 6 key?

As I said, a lot of skills and using combo field. Thanks to prove what I said.Revenant can do that with 1 or 2 skills, Daredevil same, Guardian same, Engineer same.And yes, I can. It's right on the Q key.

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@MarzAttakz.9608 said:

@JohnWater.5760 said:Elementalist is the most complicated class that needs a rework and I can prove it.! >! >
And a point that I think it is super strange. The magician uses magic, he has staffs, scepters, orbs and attacks from afar. But in this game, the magicians' strongest weapon is a dagger or sword and you have to attack closely. The same thing for the Rangers, as the name says. But the strongest build is with a melee Greatsword.
! >! > Ok let's start.! > We all know that his damage / might boon is done by Fire, try another element and fail miserably.! >
Other Classes
: A weapon for Power build or Condi Build.! >
Elementalist:
Power, Healing, Condi and a miserable CC in every weapon.! >
Note: If you want to do a high dps, better be friend of a Druid, Chrono or Firebrand.
! >! >
Other Classes:
They swap weapons to achieve greater damage or for a different attack strategy, Melee to Ranged.! >
Elementalist:
They Swap elements to survive a situation, thus giving up damage to heal or defend itself.! >
Note: Let's compare it to Revenant, which is similar and at the same time opposite to Elementalist.! > Revenants change legendaries and their utilities skills change, elementalists change elements and their weapon skills change.! > Revenants can swap legendaries and weapons, none of them you will need to abstain from the damage.
! >! >
Other Classes:
1 Healing skill, incredible healing/life steal traitline.! >
Elementalist:
A lot of horrible healing skills, horrible healing traitline.! >
Note: To do a decent healing, smash your keyboard with healing skills and better you use the combo fields.
! >! >
Engineer:
Can't swap weapon because they have Kits and Belt, It's ok because they do their job. You can equip a kit whenever you want.! >
Elementalist
: Can't swap weapon because they have Attunements and Conjures, Conjures you have a long CD and this was done for standing battles, with you're running in open world your weapon will stay back and I'm so sorry for the long CD. Attunements, again,Real Damage, Healing, Low Damage, Low defense and low Condi.! >
Note: Here it became such a mess that it is much better to rework than to try to improve it.
! >! > # Traitline! >
Other Classes:
Divide into Power, Condi, Survival, Healing, Protection...! >
Elementalist:
Divide into nothing, such a mess.! > Fire has survival, Power damage, Condi Damage, Fire Aura, Critical agains burning, might boon, fire field while downed.! > Water has Healing ofc, Damage on Vulnerability, Aura Share, Cleanse, regen boon, damage to low heath enemies.! > Air has Precision, Power damage, CC damage, Ferocity, Air fresh, fury boon, move faster, glyphs.! > Earth Condi damage, Cleanse, Protection boon, aura improvement,! > Arcane has Power, Survival, Ferocity, Condi damage, improve crit hits, all boons from above. Auras! > Tempest has auras, damage and boons.! > Weaver has Vitality, condi, power, vigor, miserable barrier and swiftness, a lot of swiftness.! > Not even Revenant and Engineer has this messy traitlines.! > Engineers doesn't have a traitline for each Kit.! > Revenants doesn't have a traitline for each legendary.

! > Originally (Beta and the first few months after release), what you're mentioning very accurately, describes the price we paid for flexibility. Add to that the cost of lowest health and lowest armor and it seemed fair at the time. Fast forward a good number of years and literally everything we did well, were even the best at, has been given to other classes for almost free, yet nothing has been adjusted or given back proportionally in my opinion.! >At this point I can only think of three possible things, which to be honest I'm not going to spend too much effort fleshing out since nothing in the old, or these newer forums ever made a difference.1) Give us in combat weapon swap, everything we have comes pre-nerfed already. Or allow conjures to become the weapon swap, based on charges/ammo2) Remove Arcane trait line and merge into core class mechanics3) Rework every professions base stats from a finite pool: high armor = low something, high hp = low something, opposite applies too.

Good point, 1 and 2 it's definitely my favorite.You know, it isn't healthy to be so upset by changes, I can't help it though. Ele has been my most loved class in any game I've played. They caused me to quit, they caused me to come back, it really has become a toxic relationship sadly.I think this is the same for me. I really like Elementalist but sometimes it make me quit and play with Dragonhunter

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@JohnWater.5760 said:

@JohnWater.5760 said:Elementalist is the most complicated class that needs a rework and I can prove it.

Other Classes:
1 Healing skill, incredible healing/life steal traitline.
Elementalist:
A lot of horrible healing skills, horrible healing traitline.
Note: To do a decent healing, smash your keyboard with healing skills and better you use the combo fields.

LoL

Ele heals:

Other classes:

Can you find your 6 key?

As I said, a lot of skills and using combo field. Thanks to prove what I said.Revenant can do that with 1 or 2 skills, Daredevil same, Guardian same, Engineer same.And yes, I can. It's right on the Q key.

Yeah, I know. I was agreeing with you and illustrating the point!

I love the complexity of ele, but you're right. You have to work a lot harder to make that magic happen for some of the things we do! And there are other issues besides. I love it anyway, but it would be nice if they would err on the side of leaving this class in better-than-average shape since so few players seem capable with it (or willing to put up with it!) as it is. Feeling like you have to pull off a sleight of hand while others can accomplish something similar at the push of a button does tend to feel a little unrewarding!

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