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@Pawlegance.7012 said:Tbh, I expect GW2 to run its course for the next 2-3 years until GW3 or whatever project ANet is currently working on is announced/released. Sales have been plummeting for a very long time, the lay-offs and the announcement of the Icebrood Saga as well as the vague timeframe in OP show where their focus is.

All I can say is thank you for great gaming in GW2 and even moreso in GW1. GW1 still got my heart (and, personally, is the better game).

Sales have been stable for a long long time. Sure sales go down out from an expansion but the current last three quarters are not the lowest this game has ever seen. We had quarters lower than this back in 2016. So sales haven't been plummeting for a long long time.

As for the lay offs, most of the people laid off weren't working on this game. If you do the math, the game started with about 300 employees and hired about a hundred more. Then let go about 140. So you're about 40 employees less than there were at launch. Most of those employees were not working on Guild Wars 2, but other projects which were cancelled. On top of that, some people who were working on other projects were moved back to Guild Wars 2.

No one really knows how many people are working on Guild Wars 2 now compared with before the layoffs.

You're trying to equate Guild Wars 2 with Anet, but Anet is a company that did have other irons on the fire, From all reports, those layoffs mostly centered around those other projects.

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Tbh i don't get why you wait for swiss with special tournaments? We already had 2 without swiss which were a success. You already needed too long for swiss to be released and when it finally will be up no one will be left care enough for the game to come back for some special ATs. Just give us this low effort free content already, we don't need swiss for it.And give us new elite specs with or without expansion. It is new content you get for all 3 gamemodes simultaneously and a heavily needed meta shake up in all gamemodes.

Also you can't let the community do all the effort to make tournaments, we need way more Anet support for hardcore and competitive content, including GvG and hardcore Raiding btw. You don't need to go back to ESL format right on the first step but i think the combat system has enough potential to try it again some day when you just start to do more frequent balance changes and hotfixes (so that a bunker meta killing all esport hype cannot survive long enough to hurt the game that much). You have so many casual friendly features which makes sense but don't over do it with being casual friendly. You still need to reward player more for playing your game more and for playing your game better.

Also don't be too afraid of adding new gamemodes compete with conquest. I think the amount of player coming back to PvP will compensate for the split of the population. And when not you can just delete the modes again (or they just die without your support by its own, like stronghold). Just try something. Nothing can be worse for the game mode than doing nothing and waiting for the few plans you have atm to finally get released after years of waiting already. Also mini seasons sounds good, but i am sure at this point it is not enough to bring ppl back. We need meta shake ups with new elite specs combined with new gamemodes even in competition to conquest (means support with seasons and a q, not onyl during 2 weeks conquest break). Have more trust in your game. The combat system brought it that far even with you dealing with WvW/ PvP so purely most of the time. Imagine what you can get when supporting it better. Its a gold mine can be timeless hype if you do it right. And it is the endless repeatable gamemodes like PvP/WvW/ GvG you can harvest the gold mine the easiest than with PvE ever. Wake up, i beg you, and risk something, try something. The best way to waste all the potential of your game is to be afraid to try stuff, to admit when it failed, to go a step back and try something else.

Hell i even would pay a monthy sub only directed to PvP/WvW/GvG for more Anet support and more content and better/ more balance patches. And i know i am by far not the only one. Start harvesting!

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Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

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@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

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@bravan.3876 said:

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

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@Dark.7235 said:All of this is fine and fluffy. It makes very little difference. The different modes need sweeping massive changes with regular at least quarterly balances.My thoughts are more WvW oriented as over the years I have shifted from PvE and PvP more to WvW. But I have enjoyed all modes over time some to lesser degrees.

...

Logged in just to say that this is probably the best forum post i've ever readen.

Congrats, I hope they listen to you :)

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

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@bravan.3876 said:

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

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@bravan.3876 said:

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

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@bravan.3876 said:

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

Sold as a PvP game?

Anet said straight out, more than once on the convention tours before the game launched that they didn't even mention PvP for the first year of promotion because they didn't want to give the idea that the game was centered on PvP. They said this. That doesn't mean PvP wasn't important per se, but it wasn't marketed that way. The tag line was always a living breathing world. They talked endlessly about dynamic events. They brought computers to shows showing the Shatterer encounter and later the Shadow Behemoth.

The PvP attention was very small even after the first year of promotion. You might think since you may have focused on it that it was the center, but I promise you that was not the case.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

Sold as a PvP game?

Anet said straight out, more than once on the convention tours before the game launched that they didn't even mention PvP for the first year of promotion because they didn't want to give the idea that the game was centered on PvP. They said this. That doesn't mean PvP wasn't important per se, but it wasn't marketed that way. The tag line was always a living breathing world. They talked endlessly about dynamic events. They brought computers to shows showing the Shatterer encounter and later the Shadow Behemoth.

The PvP attention was very small even after the first year of promotion. You might think since you may have focused on it that it was the center, but I promise you that was not the case.

I don't remember anymore when i started to pay attention to GW2 advertisment pre release and i think it doesn't even matter how much they promoted which gamemode. They clearly made advertisment with PvP/WvW what brought me into the game. So i got fooled? They also clearly supported PvP way more until PoF release then they do now (until it failed with e-sports i guess). So i had reasons to start and continue to play the game as competitive player and now you wanna tell me that i am not welcome anymore? I mean i am happy for you that Open World is your thing and that you are happy to have WvW/PvP as a little side project when running out of content but i think it is not the best way to keep the game alive to only have content for one type of player. And it wasn't like this right from the start, it clearly wasn't. But when Anet changed into this PvE and casual only company than pls Anet, say it that clearly so we can stop our foolish hope and move on, like a lot of competent PvP/WvW player did already.

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what a joke. y’all were promising swiss when i uninstalled this trash last year

& you’re promising it now like it’s a new feature & not an overdue update announced over a year ago?

pvp in it’s current state is a complete joke, just like this announcement.

2v2 as a mode in ranked got me thinking about a reinstall to check to out, but hey why have old players return? old vets coming back to the game? yeah who would want that? just announce content that should have been out months ago as ‘new’ & watch your playbase dwindle further. top tier pvp devs here.

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@bravan.3876 said:

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

Sold as a PvP game?

Anet said straight out, more than once on the convention tours before the game launched that they didn't even mention PvP for the first year of promotion because they didn't want to give the idea that the game was centered on PvP. They said this. That doesn't mean PvP wasn't important per se, but it wasn't marketed that way. The tag line was always a living breathing world. They talked endlessly about dynamic events. They brought computers to shows showing the Shatterer encounter and later the Shadow Behemoth.

The PvP attention was very small even after the first year of promotion. You might think since you may have focused on it that it was the center, but I promise you that was not the case.

I don't remember anymore when i started to pay attention to GW2 advertisment pre release and i think it doesn't even matter how much they promoted which gamemode. They clearly made advertisment with PvP/WvW what brought me into the game. So i got fooled? They also clearly supported PvP way more until PoF release then they do now (until it failed with e-sports i guess). So i had reasons to start and continue to play the game as competitive player and now you wanna tell me that i am not welcome anymore? I mean i am happy for you that Open World is your thing and that you are happy to have WvW/PvP as a little side project when running out of content but i think it is not the best way to keep the game alive to only have content for one type of player. And it wasn't like this right from the start, it clearly wasn't. But when Anet changed into this PvE and casual only company than pls Anet, say it that clearly so we can stop our foolish hope and move on, like a lot of competent PvP/WvW player did already.

I don't remember a specific advertisement that was just a PvP advertisement pretty much ever. I do remember that they had some sort of thing at later cons where they demostrated the PvP. The point is, the game wasn't centered on PvP from day one, period. I don't really know how anyone could argue it was. If anything just tracking upgrades in the 7 years since then should have convinced anyone. This is not Anet's bread and butter. It's there, but it's not a focus. They did try to do something with it, but even at it's height there were always far more PvE players. That's the audience.

I get that that's frustrating. But it's a business reality. If there were more PvPers than PvEer in this game, Anet would behave differently.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

@Pawlegance.7012 said:Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.@bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

Sold as a PvP game?

Anet said straight out, more than once on the convention tours before the game launched that they didn't even mention PvP for the first year of promotion because they didn't want to give the idea that the game was centered on PvP. They said this. That doesn't mean PvP wasn't important per se, but it wasn't marketed that way. The tag line was always a living breathing world. They talked endlessly about dynamic events. They brought computers to shows showing the Shatterer encounter and later the Shadow Behemoth.

The PvP attention was very small even after the first year of promotion. You might think since you may have focused on it that it was the center, but I promise you that was not the case.

I don't remember anymore when i started to pay attention to GW2 advertisment pre release and i think it doesn't even matter how much they promoted which gamemode. They clearly made advertisment with PvP/WvW what brought me into the game. So i got fooled? They also clearly supported PvP way more until PoF release then they do now (until it failed with e-sports i guess). So i had reasons to start and continue to play the game as competitive player and now you wanna tell me that i am not welcome anymore? I mean i am happy for you that Open World is your thing and that you are happy to have WvW/PvP as a little side project when running out of content but i think it is not the best way to keep the game alive to only have content for one type of player. And it wasn't like this right from the start, it clearly wasn't. But when Anet changed into this PvE and casual only company than pls Anet, say it that clearly so we can stop our foolish hope and move on, like a lot of competent PvP/WvW player did already.

I don't remember a specific advertisement that was just a PvP advertisement pretty much ever. I do remember that they had some sort of thing at later cons where they demostrated the PvP. The point is, the game wasn't centered on PvP from day one, period. I don't really know how anyone could argue it was. If anything just tracking upgrades in the 7 years since then should have convinced anyone. This is not Anet's bread and butter. It's there, but it's not a focus. They did try to do something with it, but even at it's height there were always far more PvE players. That's the audience.

I get that that's frustrating. But it's a business reality. If there were more PvPers than PvEer in this game, Anet would behave differently.

There were WvW and PvP advertisement i watched pre release , at least PvP/WvW got mentioned as supported gamemodes. You just saw a normal game advertised as a game giving different types of player different type of content. Ofc PvE always is a big part of a game. I mean there even was e-sport. Only after e-sport failed you could feel the support from Anet dropping remarkable (in HoT we got advertised PvP and WvW only content, but in PoF finally no one mentioned PvP/WvW anymore). I mean all the pros and other competitive player didn't join a PvE only game, why would we? PvP/WvW was advertised at least as supported gamemodes aside from big PvE Living World. Or did we dumb PvP/ WvWer just all missunderstood Anet right from the start? Well at least it seems we are not welcome anymore, we can agree to that at least :anguished:

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DisclaimerPlease, take below suggestions with a grain of salt.


Here are my thoughts on how to revamp WvW:

Victory or DeathAdd a rather difficult PvX encounter to WvW. This makes it possible to give higher rewards to WvWers and justify them because it is "hard" content. I call it Victory or Death. In essence, every x hours (e.g. 3-4) a VoD encounter happens. In EB, two teams spawn "Realm Lords" which after a short while begin to move to a common target. E.g. the mid between the garrisons of these teams. They stop moving once they are in range of each other and hurl projectiles at each other. Enemy players in proximity also receive some minor punishment but it is the player's jobs to eliminate one another. When a Realm Lord dies, every player the killing team who tagged that Lord receives a kill proof. On death, the Lord also leaves a control point behind which on capture also rewards all contributing players of that World with a kill proof. This is supposedly a quasi kill confirmed mechanic, which rewards all contributing players of that team in WvW regardless of their location in WvW.

Kill proofs may be exchanged for high quality gear (ascended, legendary components/weapons/armor).

Realm Lords may scale in difficulty and rewards with wvw population.

Change in ScoringKilling Lords also replace the current scoring system. World ranking is determined by Lord kill count. Kills may be weighted by population or only every x-th Lord kill counts (to even out population gaps and making sure everyone feels important).

Remember Lord KIll ContributionEach time a Lord is killed, collect contribution per server. Aggregate server contribution per week and buff players of each server at the end of the week accordingly. The buffed factors may be Magic Find, XP boost, mastery boost, reward track boost etc. Advertise your server's contribution to each player, make them proud.

GvGAdd a "challenger mode" to guild panels. Here guilds may challenge other guilds in Victory or Death battles. In essence, the fight happens on instanced sections of EB and are designed for a specific team sized. Matches are designed for an early, mid and late game. In early game, players gather supply and build siege weapons, player only skirmishes occur, in mid game most skirmishes are fought with combined weapons of yourself and siege weapons, in late game the Guild Lords (similar to the Realm Lord) move toward each other and accelerate play. A match is decided when a Guild Lord dies. Each Guild Lord is accompanied by their own entourage. Taking them out first is crucial because they heal the Lord. Guild Lords spawn right at the start of the match and may be killed at anytime.

Guilds receive rating for the outcome of a GvG and get loot similar to WvW Victory or Death.

Note:Guild/Realm Lords cannot be healed, their entourage (if existing) may be healed, tho.

LadderAdd ladder play to GvG similar to Gw1.

TournamentsAdd, manual and/or automatic, tournaments which reward guilds with temporary or permanent skins, gear, outfits, etc for top placement. Guilds also climb or fall the ladder faster when participating in tournaments.

FluxSometimes it is nice to change the current meta. Add mutators/flux to the game which affect certain skill mechanics to shake up play. Nobody likes a stale meta! Flux may be active between tournaments.

@Stephane Lo Presti.7258 , well, that's my take on it. You may notice a lot of inspiration came from GW1. Since we don't really have any hard facts to discuss , I chose to bring something hard to discuss into this thread.

There is a lot more I could write right now, but my baby boy needs some love and attention. Sorry :)

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While your at it can you actually fix PvP.. it was nice 2 seasons ago well balanced now its just a mess its a game of how much conditions can you do cause no other strat is viable. unless you can do a good spellbreaker but cmon i dont want to have to resort to that give me back my well rounded classes please.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This post is literally why I quit playing.

Playing since beta and this is just another fluff post with vague promises, “this is our top priority,” “this is our number 1 priority,” “we still don’t feel comfortable giving any specific release date or information, but this is all very important to us, please keep buying gems in the meantime.”

Insulting honestly, whoever is in-charge of this shit should really quit at arena net and go be a politician because they would be great at it. All bull and fluff.

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@Interpretor.3091 said:This post is literally why I quit playing.

Playing since beta and this is just another fluff post with vague promises, “this is our top priority,” “this is our number 1 priority,” “we still don’t feel comfortable giving any specific release date or information, but this is all very important to us, please keep buying gems in the meantime.”

Insulting honestly, whoever is in-charge of this kitten should really quit at arena net and go be a politician because they would be great at it. All bull and fluff.

I just read subtitles, if i dont see anything about builds templates i just skip whole article. I just can't take it serious. It is 7 years since release, but still no builds. Even obvious things like changing pvp build while playing pve still not implemented. It says a lot about how do they care about PVP.

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@"Stephane Lo Presti.7258" said:I think everyone salutes working on improving the existing modes as well as experimenting with the new ones such as the 2v2,...A couple of things have stuck with me after playing the game for over 4 years and as feedback from someone constantly trying to come back to GW2 from other games, mostly because of the fairness and the value that it gives with respect to its' price, as well as the combat mechanics, I would like to share my thoughts which, I think, a lot of players can relate to.

  1. In GW2, once you get the armor sets that you want, that's pretty much it when it comes to progression. There isn't any strong incentive for continuous pvp/wvw gameplay for most players. On the other hand, even though there are dozens of pve maps, there are only 4 wvw maps. If there was some substantial money prize related to this game mode, I can see the reasoning for not changing the wvw maps (although there's been a change to the home worlds some time in the past). I've moved on from GW2 to Black Desert Online in the past 2 years and the main point that proved the gameplay interesting was that pvp, gvg could happen anywhere on the world map, you can choose and plan where to fight for the node ownership and have the most substantial reward in the game for actually succeeding in it. When you look at GW2, there are so many beautiful pve maps, but are mostly empty because there is no real incentive to visit them other than to enjoy the view if you're into that kind of stuff. Imaging "MAP OWNERSHIP" or "CITY OWNERSHIP" by a guild or server in GW2!!!! I think that the existence of this game mode alone would transform the game and bring a lot of interest back to GW2. The concept is just one of the possible ways wvw and pvp could be transformed into something amazing.
  2. Combat in GW2, even though there are some imbalances between classes(which is bound to exist at some level in any mmo) and can feel a bit slow after coming from some faster paced games, has still some of the most fair, reasonable and, although subjectively, pretty fun mechanics that can highlight the difference between highly skilled vs averagely skilled players. Even though this is in relation to other posts, there is no strong reason for a total remake of the franchise in the way of creating a new game like GW3.
  3. LS updates and the story telling in GW2 has always been one of the strongest aspects of the game. Updating the LS and bringing fresh maps in seems to be the way of dealing with the PVE monotony, with the lack of incentive to grind for gold once you get the ascended/legendary gear. However, even though this has probably been brought to ArenaNet's attention before, it inevitably spreads the game population and has no real incentive for replayability. How many pve maps are too many? In my opinion, there already are too many. I am sure that people would go nuts if, similarly to the point 1., a guild could "own" a dungeon or a fractal tier in a way that wouldn't only show their emblem, but also bring a substantial gold reward to the guild and those funds would be distributable among guild members. Imagine that!
  4. The lack of just solo casual, but not meaningless life skill aspect really needs to be addressed radically where people who would dedicate a certain time for gathering, processing should feel rewarding, whether it be gold or further level cap increase, in game ranking,... In addition to that, with the fashion franchise that it is, adding player housing just seems like a no-brainer and would definitely add a lot to the pve/roleplay communities.
  5. Lastly, as mentioned in the point 3., the lack of substantial incentive after obtaining ascended/legendary gear needs to be addressed in some way. I think there is a lot of room for ideas how to do this, but moves like increasing the stat value for legendary gear, weekly house/villa maintenance, feeding your mounts, acquiring expensive wvw/pvp materials/devices that help in a gvg/wvw war,...

I really hope that this comment gets the attention of someone from ArenaNet, as well as other fans interested in giving feedback to improve our beloved franchise to the ranks where it potentially deserves.

Sincerely,Garathow

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