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Still Chronomancer has not got any fix (case study)

Hi friends, i have no idea where to begin, however 2 things come to mind when talking about chronomancer:

First is the wells, the Utility skills of the elite spec Chronomancer has 3/6 valid skills and 1/6 functional skill, the valid skills are (Well of Action, Well of Recall and Gravity Well), while the functional skills goes to the gravity well. Now after pointing these out i would state why the others are not valid by simply saying mantras and other skills perform better than the other wells. i will also state that the WoA and WoR are not functional because of the need to stay on it to get the boons-which is why you have these skills in your utlity slots to begin with-. and finally because the gravity well does CC effect, it keeps the enemies inside and damage them which is why i could say its valid and functional, whilst the other wells can't keep the enemies nor allies inside the wells to give boons or inflict damage or non-damage condition to others which made them non-functional skills.
and by adding one extra info to your knowledge base, there are three(3) classes in the whole game which actually have wells in their skills (necromancer, chronomancer and scrapper) and the chronomancer skills are the only skills that cannot be used underwater. you can study how wells works in each character and by that time you will see which skills are most useless.

Second, the F1-F4 resources . Now speaking of mesmer clones, by shattering them they start to find the shortest path to navigate to the enemy, they don't teleport in which they could take long time to go the the enemy specially when fighting shadow stepping class (like thief) in which they can shadow step to locations which in fact could be of a distance 3000+ if you navigate through out the ground mesh and while they move toward the enemy they will get destroyed by one of the following (clone out of range, clone died, clone got replaced, clone shattered), by looking at this then you will end up to have 1/4 chance to get your clones shattered in most cases. now in chrono add this to the ability to use F1-F4... do you see how this is broken ? you can't use F1-F4 because 1/4 you can activate the skills and when you activate the skills you won't get the boons and damage the enemy unless they shatter at them. and if we all accept this , don't you think, F1-F4 should have almost no CD,or even by going chrono, then you should have 3+ clones ??

in comparisons with other classes, i managed to imagine how would this look like if this affect other classes.
Warrior (Actual): Gaining adrenaline when basically hitting and swapping weapons.
Warrior (Nerf applied): lose 10% adrenaline per hit (or similar).
Guardian (Actual): F1-F3 ready to use anytime.
Guardian(Nerf applied): gain charging points in which you stack them by applying symbol skills whilst in combat, then consume 1 charge point when using F1-F3, they also maintain their CD.
Revenent (Actual): have 50% energy in none combat mode and 100% in combat.
Revenent(Nerf applied): have 50% energy in none combat mode and 100% in combat, however lose 10% of energy when you get hit.
Engineer (Actual): can use belt skills anytime.
Engineer(Nerf applied): belt skills cannot be used out of combat and starts with its CD.
Ranger (Actual): have active pet and ready to deploy pet (swapping).
Ranger(Nerf applied): have only one pet and can't swap pets (meaning if it dies > it will act as mini until it revives).
Thief (Actual): Initiatives are ready to use anytime and regenerate automatically.
Thief(Nerf applied): Initiatives reset to 5 out of combat and cannot be generated automatically however it get generated by using utility skills, stealing also consume initiatives.
Necromancer (Actual): gather life-force anytime. and gathered when someone near dies.
Necromancer(Nerf applied): gather life-force in combat only and can only be gathered when using some type of skills.
Elementalist (Actual): swapping elements 5 secs CD.
Elementalist(Nerf applied): you can't swap elements outside of combat and each element has its CD, like 10, 20, 25 and 60.
Mesmer (Actual): nerfed
Mesmer(Nerf applied): nerfed too much...

Now of course these are all fail balancing if these were to be applied. however, i see it very similar to what happened to chronomancer.
Leave your thoughts here i will read it and happily respond to it every week

Comments

  • I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hiraga Taichiru.1580 said:
    Warrior (Actual): Gaining adrenaline when basically hitting and swapping weapons.
    Warrior (Nerf applied): lose 10% adrenaline per hit (or similar).
    Guardian (Actual): F1-F3 ready to use anytime.
    Guardian(Nerf applied): gain charging points in which you stack them by applying symbol skills whilst in combat, then consume 1 charge point when using F1-F3, they also maintain their CD.
    Revenent (Actual): have 50% energy in none combat mode and 100% in combat.
    Revenent(Nerf applied): have 50% energy in none combat mode and 100% in combat, however lose 10% of energy when you get hit.
    Engineer (Actual): can use belt skills anytime.
    Engineer(Nerf applied): belt skills cannot be used out of combat and starts with its CD.
    Ranger (Actual): have active pet and ready to deploy pet (swapping).
    Ranger(Nerf applied): have only one pet and can't swap pets (meaning if it dies > it will act as mini until it revives).
    Thief (Actual): Initiatives are ready to use anytime and regenerate automatically.
    Thief(Nerf applied): Initiatives reset to 5 out of combat and cannot be generated automatically however it get generated by using utility skills, stealing also consume initiatives.
    Necromancer (Actual): gather life-force anytime. and gathered when someone near dies.
    Necromancer(Nerf applied): gather life-force in combat only and can only be gathered when using some type of skills.
    Elementalist (Actual): swapping elements 5 secs CD.
    Elementalist(Nerf applied): you can't swap elements outside of combat and each element has its CD, like 10, 20, 25 and 60.
    Mesmer (Actual): nerfed
    Mesmer(Nerf applied): nerfed too much...

    I thought about to make meme thread too but in pvp but was lazy xD

  • Sorry, you will have to wait in line before Chronomancer gets fixed. Druid is ahead of you and there may be other specializations that have higher priority.

  • monk seal.8079monk seal.8079 Member ✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    Not salty, in fact very happy that we no longer have to deal with cheesy mantra power chronomancer shatter builds. In PvE, Druid players have had to adjust to changes made to that specializtion and the lack of fixes, so chronomancer players need to do the same. Why should they receive favored treatment over other professions? Mesmer profession had a major rework in 2018: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/27216/game-update-notes-february-6-2018

  • I am sure they intend to look at it, but their balance pace is simply way too slow and narrowly focused, and with such an unfortunately impactful change like this one, it becomes even more glaring.

  • Let's look at the second of the suggested fixes:

    @Hiraga Taichiru.1580 said:

    Second, the F1-F4 resources . Now speaking of mesmer clones, by shattering them they start to find the shortest path to navigate to the enemy, they don't teleport in which they could take long time to go the the enemy specially when fighting shadow stepping class (like thief) in which they can shadow step to locations which in fact could be of a distance 3000+ if you navigate through out the ground mesh and while they move toward the enemy they will get destroyed by one of the following (clone out of range, clone died, clone got replaced, clone shattered), by looking at this then you will end up to have 1/4 chance to get your clones shattered in most cases. now in chrono add this to the ability to use F1-F4... do you see how this is broken ? you can't use F1-F4 because 1/4 you can activate the skills and when you activate the skills you won't get the boons and damage the enemy unless they shatter at them. and if we all accept this , don't you think, F1-F4 should have almost no CD,or even by going chrono, then you should have 3+ clones ??

    The problems with power shatter chronomancer builds in PvP and WvW were recently addressed by changes made by Anet. Do the PvP and WvW communities really want chronomancer to become unbalanced again?

  • Hiraga Taichiru.1580Hiraga Taichiru.1580 Member ✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    @monk seal.8079 said:
    Let's look at the second of the suggested fixes:

    ....

    The problems with power shatter Chronomancer builds in PvP and WvW were recently addressed by changes made by Anet. Do the PvP and WvW communities really want Chronomancer to become unbalanced again?

    Hi, just checking in... thanks for your response, however, let me address this.
    Chronomancer has Utility skills, which are the most useless skills in the whole game in competitive game modes which you mentioned above (PvP and WvW).
    Chronomancer has shield skills in which are not that great and could be countered pretty easily :

    • Shield skill 4: blocks for short duration and phantasm won't appear unless casting is finished (blocking could be countered with unblockable) and while blocking some classes are able to CC you and make you lose the phantasm and Deja vu (short, phantasm -poor mechanism-, and could be countered) its not evade or something similar like teleportation.
    • Shield skill 5: Great skill but super easy to evade, this skill should be unblockable/inevitable and they should bring back the 8s alacrity instead of 4 quickness and 4 alacrity -Chronomancer does not need quickness. And if you tell me that's to give other players quickness and alacrity, then I would simply say they ripped off all support traits in Chrono so why bother now?-

    Now if you are able to see this, then you could count that there are eight(8) skills which I could say most of them are pretty much useless, which is the core reason Chronomancers focus on shattering skills F1-F5 (damage/support traits). After the support trait lines have been washed away, they left with damage Chronomancers. Now damage Chronos can't get their full potential unless the enemy has a slow condition, and this could easily get cleansed. With the removal of IP and the merge of F4 with F5 banished all (damage/condition/support).
    and keep in mind that the trait lines of the Chronomancer are not that effective in which if you look at it you will find that two(2) trait lines for support and one(1) for damage, with the last nerf they tried to improve the condition damage with F2 has the shortest CD if all clones got shattered in which this will be the probability of (1/4 *1/3) (chance to shatter * number of clones). these, my friend, are all inconsistency.

    To summarize things we have 8 skills that are not effective at all, we have shatter skills in which we have 1/12 chance to get its full potential, poor trait line managing ( as Chronomancer alacrity should be a Unique feature which is why they put 50% alacrity as a selective trait. however, it should be mandatory trait and cannot be selected ). now after you have seen this. do you think reverting back would be unbalanced?

    PS. I have not mentioned all the problems. I can enlight you with more problems but these are the main

  • In the spirit of offering constructive ideas, I would like to see Portal Entre reworked so that it is again useful in PvP . The duration of Portal Entre was reduced to 30 seconds in PvP and the skill is now rarely used in matches . I propose increasing the duration to 45 seconds (not the original 60 seconds) and to counter complaints that this would give mesmers too much of an advantage, increase the recharge to 90 seconds to limit the number of times the skill can be used in a PvP match. Would the mesmer community support such a change?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @monk seal.8079 said:
    In the spirit of offering constructive ideas, I would like to see Portal Entre reworked so that it is again useful in PvP . The duration of Portal Entre was reduced to 30 seconds in PvP and the skill is now rarely used in matches . I propose increasing the duration to 45 seconds (not the original 60 seconds) and to counter complaints that this would give mesmers too much of an advantage, increase the recharge to 90 seconds to limit the number of times the skill can be used in a PvP match. Would the mesmer community support such a change?

    i dont think anybody cares at this point, i just play 1shoty mirage to get people salty. if i wanted to win games i would play other classes. if you wanna teamplay with portal take thief, its better in every aspect

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2019

    @monk seal.8079 said:
    Not salty, in fact very happy that we no longer have to deal with cheesy mantra power chronomancer shatter builds. In PvE, Druid players have had to adjust to changes made to that specializtion and the lack of fixes, so chronomancer players need to do the same. Why should they receive favored treatment over other professions? Mesmer profession had a major rework in 2018: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/27216/game-update-notes-february-6-2018

    Ye, not salty clearly /s
    Fixing something they should have done since the game launch is called "favored treatment"?
    Scrapper had full rework on gyros and all traits,and now getting another "fix". Are you salty that engineer getting "favored treatment" ahead of any other class ? ;)

  • @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2019

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

  • @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2019

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

  • @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
    "She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be."
    It would be better to not add it at all.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    It was both in the same time.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
    "She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be."
    It would be better to not add it at all.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    It was both in the same time.

    I will be very thankful if you showed me where I am wrong please

    I asked her to answer for me and send her the link to this conversation. She read it and then she said she dont like to answer to this kind of post because it is pointless. You dont have to belive me this but I dont care.

    And I just said what I heared. No personal opinion there.
    Personal opinion is something like this: I feel like all these types of post are made by crybabies that rather scream at developer then try to adapt.

  • Ansau.7326Ansau.7326 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    The reason why Retribution is not working in pve is not because it has a lucklasting performance, but because of how useless are in general defensive specializations in pve, as the game mode is based on AI having hard hitting attacks that cannot be sustained so active defenses are the only solution, between fairly long times of hitting an AFK hitpoint bag.

    And Retribution is far from being bad. In fact, it outperforms both Chaos and Inspiration at sustain and support. Passive endurance recovery, stability on dodge, damage reduction and turns an spammable elite into a counter to condis. Mesmer doesn't even have anything remotely close to any of those things, let alone all together in a single specialization.

    It's funny, you come here with a laughable example and yet you feel free to discredit others with the most childish excuse possible (someone else said me something but I will not bother telling you). I don't know who is that friend of yours playing hardcore gvg, I even doubt that it exists.

    The fact that you compared and elite spec (and a useless one like chrono) with a core spec (that is meta in wvw/pvp) like Retribution shows how much of ignorance your explanations are full of.

    RIP Chrono 10/2015 - 07/2019
    RIP Mirage 07/2017 - 02/2020

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2019

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    The reason why Retribution is not working in pve is not because it has a lucklasting performance, but because of how useless are in general defensive specializations in pve, as the game mode is based on AI having hard hitting attacks that cannot be sustained so active defenses are the only solution, between fairly long times of hitting an AFK hitpoint bag.

    And Retribution is far from being bad. In fact, it outperforms both Chaos and Inspiration at sustain and support. Passive endurance recovery, stability on dodge, damage reduction and turns an spammable elite into a counter to condis. Mesmer doesn't even have anything remotely close to any of those things, let alone all together in a single specialization.

    It's funny, you come here with a laughable example and yet you feel free to discredit others with the most childish excuse possible (someone else said me something but I will not bother telling you). I don't know who is that friend of yours playing hardcore gvg, I even doubt that it exists.

    The fact that you compared and elite spec (and a useless one like chrono) with a core spec (that is meta in wvw/pvp) like Retribution shows how much of ignorance your explanations are full of.

    Traitline is traitline. Elite or not, it doesnt matter. I know that defense is usless in pve and that is why I made this example. Scrapper is also rarely used in pve but works in wvw.
    In the other hand chrono is used in pve as power dps, condi dps, power support, condi support and can also be used for heals so it is not usless or unplayable there.

    In my opinion, if you want to be competetive in something you need to swap to whatever is op at the moment or whatever counters that op pick. If chrono is not op then swap to something else.

    And for my friend. I dont care as I have said :D

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    The reason why Retribution is not working in pve is not because it has a lucklasting performance, but because of how useless are in general defensive specializations in pve, as the game mode is based on AI having hard hitting attacks that cannot be sustained so active defenses are the only solution, between fairly long times of hitting an AFK hitpoint bag.

    And Retribution is far from being bad. In fact, it outperforms both Chaos and Inspiration at sustain and support. Passive endurance recovery, stability on dodge, damage reduction and turns an spammable elite into a counter to condis. Mesmer doesn't even have anything remotely close to any of those things, let alone all together in a single specialization.

    It's funny, you come here with a laughable example and yet you feel free to discredit others with the most childish excuse possible (someone else said me something but I will not bother telling you). I don't know who is that friend of yours playing hardcore gvg, I even doubt that it exists.

    The fact that you compared and elite spec (and a useless one like chrono) with a core spec (that is meta in wvw/pvp) like Retribution shows how much of ignorance your explanations are full of.

    Traitline is traitline. Elite or not, it doesnt matter. I know that defense is usless in pve and that is why I made this example. Scrapper is also rarely used in pve but works in wvw.
    In the other hand chrono is used in pve as power dps, condi dps, power support, condi support and can also be used for heals so it is not usless or unplayable there.

    In my opinion, if you want to be competetive in something you need to swap to whatever is op at the moment or whatever counters that op pick. If chrono is not op then swap to something else.

    And for my friend. I dont care as I have said :D

    to elaborate, chrono CAN be used as power dps but is subpar, CAN be used as condi dps but is subpar ( confusion as main dmg means its kitten at trash clear that gets chain CC and relies on bosses spaming ), CAN heal but its worse then other options. Only thing its actually GOOD at is tank+buff on raids due to allot of block/evades, and thats preety much it.

  • @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    The reason why Retribution is not working in pve is not because it has a lucklasting performance, but because of how useless are in general defensive specializations in pve, as the game mode is based on AI having hard hitting attacks that cannot be sustained so active defenses are the only solution, between fairly long times of hitting an AFK hitpoint bag.

    And Retribution is far from being bad. In fact, it outperforms both Chaos and Inspiration at sustain and support. Passive endurance recovery, stability on dodge, damage reduction and turns an spammable elite into a counter to condis. Mesmer doesn't even have anything remotely close to any of those things, let alone all together in a single specialization.

    It's funny, you come here with a laughable example and yet you feel free to discredit others with the most childish excuse possible (someone else said me something but I will not bother telling you). I don't know who is that friend of yours playing hardcore gvg, I even doubt that it exists.

    The fact that you compared and elite spec (and a useless one like chrono) with a core spec (that is meta in wvw/pvp) like Retribution shows how much of ignorance your explanations are full of.

    Traitline is traitline. Elite or not, it doesnt matter. I know that defense is usless in pve and that is why I made this example. Scrapper is also rarely used in pve but works in wvw.
    In the other hand chrono is used in pve as power dps, condi dps, power support, condi support and can also be used for heals so it is not usless or unplayable there.

    In my opinion, if you want to be competetive in something you need to swap to whatever is op at the moment or whatever counters that op pick. If chrono is not op then swap to something else.

    And for my friend. I dont care as I have said :D

    No, it does, despite you trying to deny it. Elite specializations change core mechanics, unlock skills and weapons and define the theme of the builds including them. The trivialization you're doing is just a cheesy way to validate your point, but it's just that, a trivialization that only touches the surface of the topic while ignoring the full iceberg.

    Anyway, the issue with Chrono is beyond mesmer effectiveness as a class in the game (the point you're trying to bring to dismiss the discussion in question?). Chrono not only suffered the worst core mechanical downgrade in Gw2 from a performance point of view, it also was left in a position where joy and entertainment don't go any longer with it. Not only the elite has lost a lot of effectiveness across all game modes, nobody likes the change, nobody enjoys playing the new mechanics. The result is Chrono is being left in the dust as a specialization that only brings the players frustration and a bad experience in the game.

    OP topic was to put in perspective of other professions the magnitude of the mistake that anet has made with chrono. Effectiveness and viability in game modes are irrelevant, quality of life and player experience is what it is in question.

    If your point was: but it doesn't matter because mirage is still a thing, let me tell you that you both missed the point and failed at the attempt to argument against it.

    I guess I never understood it then. For me traits (elite or not), weapons and even classes dont matter. What I play is what is best for my style and type of play. Game changes. If you want to be competetive this is the right mindset. We can only argue if changes were deserved or not. And I feel like chronos changes were deserved. Now it is not the only choice for pve so I can swap to take what is best.
    If you dont feel the same I am sorry but it is not my problem. This is public forum and I can state my opinion.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    The reason why Retribution is not working in pve is not because it has a lucklasting performance, but because of how useless are in general defensive specializations in pve, as the game mode is based on AI having hard hitting attacks that cannot be sustained so active defenses are the only solution, between fairly long times of hitting an AFK hitpoint bag.

    And Retribution is far from being bad. In fact, it outperforms both Chaos and Inspiration at sustain and support. Passive endurance recovery, stability on dodge, damage reduction and turns an spammable elite into a counter to condis. Mesmer doesn't even have anything remotely close to any of those things, let alone all together in a single specialization.

    It's funny, you come here with a laughable example and yet you feel free to discredit others with the most childish excuse possible (someone else said me something but I will not bother telling you). I don't know who is that friend of yours playing hardcore gvg, I even doubt that it exists.

    The fact that you compared and elite spec (and a useless one like chrono) with a core spec (that is meta in wvw/pvp) like Retribution shows how much of ignorance your explanations are full of.

    Traitline is traitline. Elite or not, it doesnt matter. I know that defense is usless in pve and that is why I made this example. Scrapper is also rarely used in pve but works in wvw.
    In the other hand chrono is used in pve as power dps, condi dps, power support, condi support and can also be used for heals so it is not usless or unplayable there.

    In my opinion, if you want to be competetive in something you need to swap to whatever is op at the moment or whatever counters that op pick. If chrono is not op then swap to something else.

    And for my friend. I dont care as I have said :D

    to elaborate, chrono CAN be used as power dps but is subpar, CAN be used as condi dps but is subpar ( confusion as main dmg means its kitten at trash clear that gets chain CC and relies on bosses spaming ), CAN heal but its worse then other options. Only thing its actually GOOD at is tank+buff on raids due to allot of block/evades, and thats preety much it.

    Thats why recent sabir record was done with power chrono. Condi chrono is as good as scepter mirage, not best in slot but second on 1 boss. I solohealed some bosses as a chrono, why waste a slot for healer when you can take support chrono that heals. Are we talking about best in slot or usable?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    The reason why Retribution is not working in pve is not because it has a lucklasting performance, but because of how useless are in general defensive specializations in pve, as the game mode is based on AI having hard hitting attacks that cannot be sustained so active defenses are the only solution, between fairly long times of hitting an AFK hitpoint bag.

    And Retribution is far from being bad. In fact, it outperforms both Chaos and Inspiration at sustain and support. Passive endurance recovery, stability on dodge, damage reduction and turns an spammable elite into a counter to condis. Mesmer doesn't even have anything remotely close to any of those things, let alone all together in a single specialization.

    It's funny, you come here with a laughable example and yet you feel free to discredit others with the most childish excuse possible (someone else said me something but I will not bother telling you). I don't know who is that friend of yours playing hardcore gvg, I even doubt that it exists.

    The fact that you compared and elite spec (and a useless one like chrono) with a core spec (that is meta in wvw/pvp) like Retribution shows how much of ignorance your explanations are full of.

    Traitline is traitline. Elite or not, it doesnt matter. I know that defense is usless in pve and that is why I made this example. Scrapper is also rarely used in pve but works in wvw.
    In the other hand chrono is used in pve as power dps, condi dps, power support, condi support and can also be used for heals so it is not usless or unplayable there.

    In my opinion, if you want to be competetive in something you need to swap to whatever is op at the moment or whatever counters that op pick. If chrono is not op then swap to something else.

    And for my friend. I dont care as I have said :D

    to elaborate, chrono CAN be used as power dps but is subpar, CAN be used as condi dps but is subpar ( confusion as main dmg means its kitten at trash clear that gets chain CC and relies on bosses spaming ), CAN heal but its worse then other options. Only thing its actually GOOD at is tank+buff on raids due to allot of block/evades, and thats preety much it.

    Thats why recent sabir record was done with power chrono. Condi chrono is as good as scepter mirage, not best in slot but second on 1 boss. I solohealed some bosses as a chrono, why waste a slot for healer when you can take support chrono that heals. Are we talking about best in slot or usable?

    everything is usable if you try hard enough, you can make power mirage with axe and no offhand and play it, doesnt mean its any good.

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    The reason why Retribution is not working in pve is not because it has a lucklasting performance, but because of how useless are in general defensive specializations in pve, as the game mode is based on AI having hard hitting attacks that cannot be sustained so active defenses are the only solution, between fairly long times of hitting an AFK hitpoint bag.

    And Retribution is far from being bad. In fact, it outperforms both Chaos and Inspiration at sustain and support. Passive endurance recovery, stability on dodge, damage reduction and turns an spammable elite into a counter to condis. Mesmer doesn't even have anything remotely close to any of those things, let alone all together in a single specialization.

    It's funny, you come here with a laughable example and yet you feel free to discredit others with the most childish excuse possible (someone else said me something but I will not bother telling you). I don't know who is that friend of yours playing hardcore gvg, I even doubt that it exists.

    The fact that you compared and elite spec (and a useless one like chrono) with a core spec (that is meta in wvw/pvp) like Retribution shows how much of ignorance your explanations are full of.

    Traitline is traitline. Elite or not, it doesnt matter. I know that defense is usless in pve and that is why I made this example. Scrapper is also rarely used in pve but works in wvw.
    In the other hand chrono is used in pve as power dps, condi dps, power support, condi support and can also be used for heals so it is not usless or unplayable there.

    In my opinion, if you want to be competetive in something you need to swap to whatever is op at the moment or whatever counters that op pick. If chrono is not op then swap to something else.

    And for my friend. I dont care as I have said :D

    Oh how fun that sounds, in order to be "good" at this game you should play whatever op build regardless if it's your own character or a class you hate....
    I even tried this with holo and im wrecking every pvp match i get in, just spamming my skills (i don't even know all of them just spam forge and elixirs) this game sucks right now and it's a meme of what it was originally.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2019

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    The reason why Retribution is not working in pve is not because it has a lucklasting performance, but because of how useless are in general defensive specializations in pve, as the game mode is based on AI having hard hitting attacks that cannot be sustained so active defenses are the only solution, between fairly long times of hitting an AFK hitpoint bag.

    And Retribution is far from being bad. In fact, it outperforms both Chaos and Inspiration at sustain and support. Passive endurance recovery, stability on dodge, damage reduction and turns an spammable elite into a counter to condis. Mesmer doesn't even have anything remotely close to any of those things, let alone all together in a single specialization.

    It's funny, you come here with a laughable example and yet you feel free to discredit others with the most childish excuse possible (someone else said me something but I will not bother telling you). I don't know who is that friend of yours playing hardcore gvg, I even doubt that it exists.

    The fact that you compared and elite spec (and a useless one like chrono) with a core spec (that is meta in wvw/pvp) like Retribution shows how much of ignorance your explanations are full of.

    Traitline is traitline. Elite or not, it doesnt matter. I know that defense is usless in pve and that is why I made this example. Scrapper is also rarely used in pve but works in wvw.
    In the other hand chrono is used in pve as power dps, condi dps, power support, condi support and can also be used for heals so it is not usless or unplayable there.

    In my opinion, if you want to be competetive in something you need to swap to whatever is op at the moment or whatever counters that op pick. If chrono is not op then swap to something else.

    And for my friend. I dont care as I have said :D

    Oh how fun that sounds, in order to be "good" at this game you should play whatever op build regardless if it's your own character or a class you hate....
    I even tried this with holo and im wrecking every pvp match i get in, just spamming my skills (i don't even know all of them just spam forge and elixirs) this game sucks right now and it's a meme of what it was originally.

    Still, if you find a player with same skill and more op build/in better matchup you will lose. Some players want to do everything to win. That is what makes the game fun for them. You cannot say that this is not the right way only because someone elses is diferent

    Beeing good and winning is mostly not related. You can win and still be bad if you have better build and/or your opponent is worse. You can lose even if you are better if you have worse build or bad matchup. If you want to win as much as possible you should have best possible build. Just skill might not be enough.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    The reason why Retribution is not working in pve is not because it has a lucklasting performance, but because of how useless are in general defensive specializations in pve, as the game mode is based on AI having hard hitting attacks that cannot be sustained so active defenses are the only solution, between fairly long times of hitting an AFK hitpoint bag.

    And Retribution is far from being bad. In fact, it outperforms both Chaos and Inspiration at sustain and support. Passive endurance recovery, stability on dodge, damage reduction and turns an spammable elite into a counter to condis. Mesmer doesn't even have anything remotely close to any of those things, let alone all together in a single specialization.

    It's funny, you come here with a laughable example and yet you feel free to discredit others with the most childish excuse possible (someone else said me something but I will not bother telling you). I don't know who is that friend of yours playing hardcore gvg, I even doubt that it exists.

    The fact that you compared and elite spec (and a useless one like chrono) with a core spec (that is meta in wvw/pvp) like Retribution shows how much of ignorance your explanations are full of.

    Traitline is traitline. Elite or not, it doesnt matter. I know that defense is usless in pve and that is why I made this example. Scrapper is also rarely used in pve but works in wvw.
    In the other hand chrono is used in pve as power dps, condi dps, power support, condi support and can also be used for heals so it is not usless or unplayable there.

    In my opinion, if you want to be competetive in something you need to swap to whatever is op at the moment or whatever counters that op pick. If chrono is not op then swap to something else.

    And for my friend. I dont care as I have said :D

    to elaborate, chrono CAN be used as power dps but is subpar, CAN be used as condi dps but is subpar ( confusion as main dmg means its kitten at trash clear that gets chain CC and relies on bosses spaming ), CAN heal but its worse then other options. Only thing its actually GOOD at is tank+buff on raids due to allot of block/evades, and thats preety much it.

    Thats why recent sabir record was done with power chrono. Condi chrono is as good as scepter mirage, not best in slot but second on 1 boss. I solohealed some bosses as a chrono, why waste a slot for healer when you can take support chrono that heals. Are we talking about best in slot or usable?

    everything is usable if you try hard enough, you can make power mirage with axe and no offhand and play it, doesnt mean its any good.

    In my mind, usable means close to meta builds. If your build is above 30k on golem it is usable for me. Only confusion/torment builds that outperform in real fights can go lower. Rest of the builds are usless in my mind and only reason to take them is if they are needed for specific mechanic.

    Condi chrono is second/third best option on largos. 4th build will never come close so I think condi chrono is good. Not great but definitely not usless.

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    The reason why Retribution is not working in pve is not because it has a lucklasting performance, but because of how useless are in general defensive specializations in pve, as the game mode is based on AI having hard hitting attacks that cannot be sustained so active defenses are the only solution, between fairly long times of hitting an AFK hitpoint bag.

    And Retribution is far from being bad. In fact, it outperforms both Chaos and Inspiration at sustain and support. Passive endurance recovery, stability on dodge, damage reduction and turns an spammable elite into a counter to condis. Mesmer doesn't even have anything remotely close to any of those things, let alone all together in a single specialization.

    It's funny, you come here with a laughable example and yet you feel free to discredit others with the most childish excuse possible (someone else said me something but I will not bother telling you). I don't know who is that friend of yours playing hardcore gvg, I even doubt that it exists.

    The fact that you compared and elite spec (and a useless one like chrono) with a core spec (that is meta in wvw/pvp) like Retribution shows how much of ignorance your explanations are full of.

    Traitline is traitline. Elite or not, it doesnt matter. I know that defense is usless in pve and that is why I made this example. Scrapper is also rarely used in pve but works in wvw.
    In the other hand chrono is used in pve as power dps, condi dps, power support, condi support and can also be used for heals so it is not usless or unplayable there.

    In my opinion, if you want to be competetive in something you need to swap to whatever is op at the moment or whatever counters that op pick. If chrono is not op then swap to something else.

    And for my friend. I dont care as I have said :D

    Oh how fun that sounds, in order to be "good" at this game you should play whatever op build regardless if it's your own character or a class you hate....
    I even tried this with holo and im wrecking every pvp match i get in, just spamming my skills (i don't even know all of them just spam forge and elixirs) this game sucks right now and it's a meme of what it was originally.

    Still, if you find a player with same skill and more op build/in better matchup you will lose. Some players want to do everything to win. That is what makes the game fun for them. You cannot say that this is not the right way only because someone elses is diferent

    Beeing good and winning is mostly not related. You can win and still be bad if you have better build and/or your opponent is worse. You can lose even if you are better if you have worse build or bad matchup. If you want to win as much as possible you should have best possible build. Just skill might not be enough.

    It's the right way i know, but it's lame and sad, most players don't even remember the times every class was balanced, there were tons of weapon and build variation and everything worked fine, so skill based, now it's just a piece of kitten, run meta build rek everyone, run custom build feel handicapped every match.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    The reason why Retribution is not working in pve is not because it has a lucklasting performance, but because of how useless are in general defensive specializations in pve, as the game mode is based on AI having hard hitting attacks that cannot be sustained so active defenses are the only solution, between fairly long times of hitting an AFK hitpoint bag.

    And Retribution is far from being bad. In fact, it outperforms both Chaos and Inspiration at sustain and support. Passive endurance recovery, stability on dodge, damage reduction and turns an spammable elite into a counter to condis. Mesmer doesn't even have anything remotely close to any of those things, let alone all together in a single specialization.

    It's funny, you come here with a laughable example and yet you feel free to discredit others with the most childish excuse possible (someone else said me something but I will not bother telling you). I don't know who is that friend of yours playing hardcore gvg, I even doubt that it exists.

    The fact that you compared and elite spec (and a useless one like chrono) with a core spec (that is meta in wvw/pvp) like Retribution shows how much of ignorance your explanations are full of.

    Traitline is traitline. Elite or not, it doesnt matter. I know that defense is usless in pve and that is why I made this example. Scrapper is also rarely used in pve but works in wvw.
    In the other hand chrono is used in pve as power dps, condi dps, power support, condi support and can also be used for heals so it is not usless or unplayable there.

    In my opinion, if you want to be competetive in something you need to swap to whatever is op at the moment or whatever counters that op pick. If chrono is not op then swap to something else.

    And for my friend. I dont care as I have said :D

    Oh how fun that sounds, in order to be "good" at this game you should play whatever op build regardless if it's your own character or a class you hate....
    I even tried this with holo and im wrecking every pvp match i get in, just spamming my skills (i don't even know all of them just spam forge and elixirs) this game sucks right now and it's a meme of what it was originally.

    Still, if you find a player with same skill and more op build/in better matchup you will lose. Some players want to do everything to win. That is what makes the game fun for them. You cannot say that this is not the right way only because someone elses is diferent

    Beeing good and winning is mostly not related. You can win and still be bad if you have better build and/or your opponent is worse. You can lose even if you are better if you have worse build or bad matchup. If you want to win as much as possible you should have best possible build. Just skill might not be enough.

    its just as silly as detonate plasma thief, having entire spec with unique gear and runes. only to be usable in couple of fights. even tho there are other builds that do the same in those fights while being usable in other ones too, am I supposed to make 4 different gear types to run raids? Do i go condi chrono, then condi mirage, then power support chrono for other ones. oh and power chrono for fractals. 4 different builds with different gears. to run general content.
    or, you know. make dh and be meta everywhere.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I feel like you are complicating things. In pve/wvw chronomancer traitline is not that good now (compared how it used to be). If there was no mesmer playable I would take it as a problem but if I remember correctly, mirage is still doing well.

    For example retribution from revenant has no use in raids. Yet revenants do (and are quite strong in their roles).

    Im sorry but doing well where?? in wvw we can only roam as mirages to find duels or small fights, those are dead since we have warclaws so no use, and chrono is unplayable, mirage in zerg fights is as usefull as core ranger, and that core support mesmer build in metabattle is a bad joke outshined by every other spec.

    Sry for late response. As I have said I dont play wvw so I asked a friend that is part of a hardcore wvw guild to answer for you. She said she dont want to explain it to you since it looks like you dont want to listen and she is tired of explaining something to players that just dont want to understand because their class is not as op as it used to be.

    "You are just clueless/dont want to listen so I wont explain anything,you are bad and no longer carried by OP spec"
    it's ad hominem plus it's useless comment

    How is yours any diferent? :D

    Dont think its useless to let you know about your logical fallacy. If you have nothing to say, stay quiet.
    About chrono in pvp - completely dead and useless.

    I dont understand how there could be any logical fallacy if there is no statement including logic. My post was only reaction to his reaction. I apologised why I havent responded yet and gave my reason. As I have said, chrono is bad traitline in wvw/pvp but that is same as retribution (revenant) in pve. Mesmer is still played in wvw even by top players. I wanted to support my claim by an example but she refused to respond. Nothing I can do about it.

    And the way I see it, 95 percent of posts on forum are usless or wrong. At least mine wasnt both.

    The reason why Retribution is not working in pve is not because it has a lucklasting performance, but because of how useless are in general defensive specializations in pve, as the game mode is based on AI having hard hitting attacks that cannot be sustained so active defenses are the only solution, between fairly long times of hitting an AFK hitpoint bag.

    And Retribution is far from being bad. In fact, it outperforms both Chaos and Inspiration at sustain and support. Passive endurance recovery, stability on dodge, damage reduction and turns an spammable elite into a counter to condis. Mesmer doesn't even have anything remotely close to any of those things, let alone all together in a single specialization.

    It's funny, you come here with a laughable example and yet you feel free to discredit others with the most childish excuse possible (someone else said me something but I will not bother telling you). I don't know who is that friend of yours playing hardcore gvg, I even doubt that it exists.

    The fact that you compared and elite spec (and a useless one like chrono) with a core spec (that is meta in wvw/pvp) like Retribution shows how much of ignorance your explanations are full of.

    Traitline is traitline. Elite or not, it doesnt matter. I know that defense is usless in pve and that is why I made this example. Scrapper is also rarely used in pve but works in wvw.
    In the other hand chrono is used in pve as power dps, condi dps, power support, condi support and can also be used for heals so it is not usless or unplayable there.

    In my opinion, if you want to be competetive in something you need to swap to whatever is op at the moment or whatever counters that op pick. If chrono is not op then swap to something else.

    And for my friend. I dont care as I have said :D

    Oh how fun that sounds, in order to be "good" at this game you should play whatever op build regardless if it's your own character or a class you hate....
    I even tried this with holo and im wrecking every pvp match i get in, just spamming my skills (i don't even know all of them just spam forge and elixirs) this game sucks right now and it's a meme of what it was originally.

    Still, if you find a player with same skill and more op build/in better matchup you will lose. Some players want to do everything to win. That is what makes the game fun for them. You cannot say that this is not the right way only because someone elses is diferent

    Beeing good and winning is mostly not related. You can win and still be bad if you have better build and/or your opponent is worse. You can lose even if you are better if you have worse build or bad matchup. If you want to win as much as possible you should have best possible build. Just skill might not be enough.

    its just as silly as detonate plasma thief, having entire spec with unique gear and runes. only to be usable in couple of fights. even tho there are other builds that do the same in those fights while being usable in other ones too, am I supposed to make 4 different gear types to run raids? Do i go condi chrono, then condi mirage, then power support chrono for other ones. oh and power chrono for fractals. 4 different builds with different gears. to run general content.
    or, you know. make dh and be meta everywhere.

    If you just want a kill, double shortbow soulbeast is easy way to do it. Personaly my chrono has 60 inventory slots filled with trinkets, runes, sigils and weapons (i have legendary armor) to adapt my build. I have at least 1 chrono build for each fight. Gearing boonthief for 1 boss cost the same for me. You dont need it but it is fun for me and players I raid with.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @monk seal.8079 said:
    Not salty, in fact very happy that we no longer have to deal with cheesy mantra power chronomancer shatter builds. In PvE, Druid players have had to adjust to changes made to that specializtion and the lack of fixes, so chronomancer players need to do the same. Why should they receive favored treatment over other professions? Mesmer profession had a major rework in 2018: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/27216/game-update-notes-february-6-2018

    Only serious Mantra power builds allowed. (serious face)