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New Death Magic rework upcoming! (10/1 balance notes)


nikelaus.9745

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@DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:it's goot that anet realises that there is something wrong with DM, still post rework it provides you with ramp up thoughness which depletes if you are stun-chained (since u cannot keep up those high stacks then) and no stability at all.. I dont see how any competent pvp builds would use that line

I’ll be honest here and say that the buff itself is mediocre. But anet seems to want to adopt a design philosophy which involves standardizing everything under similar metrics, and the only thing that all classes share are stats. So that’s why we see the exchange of might granting traits into “gain 120 power” traits.

But the design of DM right now makes sense when you think about it from the perspective of stats. They saw how stats redistribution opened up builds when they added 600 ferocity. So now they are adding 600 toughness into the mix with deathmagic

That should be enough information to see why this is going to be a strong spvp spec.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"DEATHsCLAW.1978" said:it's goot that anet realises that there is something wrong with DM, still post rework it provides you with ramp up thoughness which depletes if you are stun-chained (since u cannot keep up those high stacks then) and no stability at all.. I dont see how any competent pvp builds would use that line

I’ll be honest here and say that the buff itself is mediocre. But anet seems to want to adopt a design philosophy which involves standardizing everything under similar metrics, and the only thing that all classes share are stats. So that’s why we see the exchange of might granting traits into “gain 120 power” traits.

But the design of DM right now makes sense when you think about it from the perspective of stats. They saw how stats redistribution opened up builds when they added 600 ferocity. So now they are adding 600 toughness into the mix with deathmagic

That should be enough information to see why this is going to be a strong spvp spec.

I give you the "standartising" thing and that its good

but anet is still not adressing the core problems of necromancer (no vigor, blocks, evades, poor mobility, long cast times,...) and as long as no traitline grants any of it it wont be chosen over an offensive one in spvp (exeption is maybe bloodmagic for ressing teammates)

in my opinion just defensively the boon rip alone from Spite is worth more than that 600 thoughness

at least in a pvp environnment where enemies run around with might and stab

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:it's goot that anet realises that there is something wrong with DM, still post rework it provides you with ramp up thoughness which depletes if you are stun-chained (since u cannot keep up those high stacks then) and no stability at all.. I dont see how any competent pvp builds would use that line

I’ll be honest here and say that the buff itself is mediocre. But anet seems to want to adopt a design philosophy which involves standardizing everything under similar metrics, and the only thing that all classes share are stats. So that’s why we see the exchange of might granting traits into “gain 120 power” traits.

But the design of DM right now makes sense when you think about it from the perspective of stats. They saw how stats redistribution opened up builds when they added 600 ferocity. So now they are adding 600 toughness into the mix with deathmagic

Does it though? Because for most professions it was not an increase of 600 it was considerably less but still an increase. These traits also trigger immediately and dont requires a build up of stacking an effect 30 times.

That should be enough information to see why this is going to be a strong spvp spec.If this was Pre HoT or early HoT meta i would agree with you here but this is 2019 where burst meta is king.600 toughness will not mean a darn thing and that assumes you have maximum stacks which likely wont be easily sustainable not to mention the time needed to build it up. Burst meta attempts to hit you before you have time to make a build up.

So will this be a strong spvp spec for necro, no probably not...Will people test it out of course.

even assuming some one takes foot in the grave for most professions its not hard to push necro off a point with a single cc wich can be enough time to decap the point even if the necro is trying to bunker.Lets also not forget the common focus the necro first that has become a standard for spvp. will 600 toughness alone assuming max stacks be enough to save you probably not.... overall they took a line that was very sub par and its still sub par with a small potential of being slightly better assuming the caster can achieve high stack counts.

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I ran the numbers. Assuming no investment in toughness from trinkets, weapons, or armor.

The ceiling for the current death magic is -47.94% direct damage reduction, -20% condition damage reduction, and 182 power while maintaining 10 stacks of corruptor's fervor, protection, and 1 stack of poison on your foe.

The ceiling for the new death magic is -48.92% direct damage reduction, -10% condition damage reduction, and 300 power while maintaining 30 stacks of death's carapace.

This change translates to a slight damage buff from deadly strength, and better protection uptime, at the cost of reduced condition damage reduction and more stacks to maintain.

Overall I would call this change a Nerf to death magic as you used to get a bigger effect (-10% damage reduction from putrid defense) with less investment. And you also get less condition damage reduction.

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the
hell
do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor.

How is that any different to how it works now?

Did I say it was? Death Magic is weak as hell now and they're nerfing it. The only thing that might be better is Death Nova, since it seems they're changing it to always deal the flat damage even on sacrifice minion active skills like Putrid Explosion.

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the hell do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor.

Well think about it. The GM trait proc on condi application, so one spin to win that hits 2 targets will get you 24 stacks alone...that’s ignoring every other trait. Then the shrouded removal will give you 3 per condition cleanse. If this counts external sources of condi cleanse we are talking perma uptime on this buff, from those two traits alone

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This is underwhelming, regardless if it's good or not. It's pretty hard to get excited about effects that stack a passive damage mitigation stat.

On that note, the amount and durations are poorly thought out ... Even at max stacks, you only get 600 toughness and it's on the order of 10 seconds. That's pretty MEH if you ask me.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the
hell
do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor.

Well think about it. The GM trait proc on condi application, so one spin to win that hits 2 targets will get you 24 stacks alone...that’s ignoring every other trait. Then the shrouded removal will give you 3 per condition cleanse. If this counts external sources of condi cleanse we are talking perma uptime on this buff, from those two traits alone

While you are fighting. But when you cant cast skills for kitten and getting hard focus you wont gain anything from the defense line lul.

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@Obtena.7952 said:This is underwhelming, regardless if it's good or not. It's pretty hard to get excited about effects that stack a passive damage mitigation stat.

On that note, the amount and durations are poorly thought out ... Even at max stacks, you only get 600 toughness and it's on the order of 10 seconds. That's pretty MEH if you ask me.

Who are you and what did you do to the obtena I know? Not defending anet choices :smiley:

Just kidding.

I'm also not that hyped about the changes. Some are good, but most of them feel like someone didn't really think about the changes or didn't test them.The core problem is, that I think they only test stuff in open world pve. Where basically anything works.I do have something in mind for solo roaming and maybe gonna test it in pvp as well, but yeah...

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Sooo... will the traitline picture be jokofied?

While I do like the stacking effect and feel that the new Corrupter's Fervor and Deadly Strength makes the line slightly more appealing to sturdy power Reaper builds, ANet missed the mark for me.

  • Thoughness is still overemphasized
  • Minions are still overemphasized
  • Unholy Sanctury has no meaningful interaction with the traitline.

When looking at playstyles, I don't see any changes. Why the effort?

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Death Magic: This trait line has been reworked. Many traits now revolve around a new effect called Death's Carapace that increases toughness by 20 for each stack up to a maximum of 30 stacks. Death's Carapace stacks are applied for 10 seconds from all traits except Flesh of the Master.

Way to much raw stats, there is no real point in making something imbalanced for the sake of leading players to use it.

Minor:Armored Shroud: This trait now gives 5 stacks of Death's Carapace when entering shroud.

Strictly speaking it's not bad. A bit of a nerf but not bad.

Soul Comprehension: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now also grants 1 stack of Death's Carapace for each kill the necromancer participates in.

Like always, great in WvW, trash everywhere else.

Beyond the Veil: This trait has been reworked. It now reduces condition damage by 10% while the necromancer has at least 10 stacks of Death's Carapace.

Meh...

Adept:Flesh of the Master: Instead of granting armor for each minion, this trait now causes the necromancer's minions to grant them 2 Death's Carapace stacks as long as the minions are alive.

More passive minion gameplay...

Putrid Defense: This trait has changed positions and its functionality has changed. It now causes poison to deal 15% more damage and grants 1 Death's Carapace stack when applying poison.

I'm curious whether you'll gain 2 death carapace per poison stack with corruptor fervor... All in all, it's not really engaging but it follow the logic of the change...

Shrouded Removal: This trait has changed positions. In addition to its previous effects, it now grants 3 Death's Carapace stacks when a condition is removed.

Meh...

Master:Necromantic Corruption: This trait is unchanged.

Still in this stupid passive minion gameplay... so disappointing. Is it because there is no hope to ever have good minion active skills?

Dark Defiance: This trait is unchanged.

Thanks god.

Deadly Strength: This trait has been reworked. It now causes Death's Carapace to grant an additional 10 power per stack.

Meh... Well, as an after thought, it's a buff we got here.

Grandmaster:Death Nova: Updated skill facts and description. Updated attack name from Lesser Poison Cloud to Poison Nova in order to indicate that it has different behavior from Corrosive Poison Cloud. Fixed an issue that caused this trait to use the minion's stats instead of the necromancer's. Fixed various issues that caused this trait to behave inconsistently with certain minions. Increased damage by 60% in PvE only.

P A S S I V E minion gameplay...

Corrupter's Fervor: This trait has been reworked. It now grants 1 Death's Carapace stack when applying any condition. Additionally, at 25 Death's Carapace stacks or above, the necromancer gains pulsing protection for 3 seconds every 3 seconds.

That's not wise in anyway... Absolutely not.

Unholy Sanctuary: This trait is unchanged.

lol

So, to sum it up: Nerf of basic performances to increase potential performance, traits that needed to be changed ain't changed and huge stat powercreep that will mostly impact WvW.

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@XECOR.2814 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the
hell
do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor.

Well think about it. The GM trait proc on condi application, so one spin to win that hits 2 targets will get you 24 stacks alone...that’s ignoring every other trait. Then the shrouded removal will give you 3 per condition cleanse. If this counts external sources of condi cleanse we are talking perma uptime on this buff, from those two traits alone

While you are fighting. But when you cant cast skills for kitten and getting hard focus you wont gain anything from the defense line

True. I mean what death magic needed was more unique gameplay, but instead we got a pure stat for the buff. In the end I think it’s the buff itself that it lackluster. If they just made the buff do something else other than toughness it would be more unique and formidable. But as of right now this is their design philosophy which is like...meh.

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the
hell
do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor.

Well my guess would be that hitting multiple targets helps stacking.

That was my thought as well. WvW condi-bombing is one way to build a full stack quickly. Another is against PvE bosses that allow more time to develop a stack.

Unless I misunderstood the preview notes, the purpose of the change is to make Necro easier to bag at the start of an engagement, increase the value of disengaging from Necro to reset the fight, and place more emphasis on having other professions support and escort.

Unfortunately, I feel like the changes will nerf Necro more outside of WvW zerging than it will in a zerg.

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