You forgot to swap Lost Time with Danger Time — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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You forgot to swap Lost Time with Danger Time

Thanks for the heads up on the next patch, but it looks like you forgot a small change since you left us with these abominations for the next 3 months:

  • DT pchrono still exists, doing way above average dps (37k) just because it relies on slow uptime which it contributes 0% of. Alternatively, you can stack 7 of these higher-than-average dps roles to maintain both perma-slow and perma-quickness for a whole raid squad without any boon duration investment, eliminating the need of a quickness support and achieving unprecedented levels of dps. pChrono shouldn't be doing ridiculous amounts of damage considering how easily it can generate its own boons, and its reliance on a condition it doesn't even apply seriously needs to be reviewed.
  • Danger Time + Seize the Moment allows hybrid chronos to do almost as much damage as a dps condi scourge (28k) whilst providing almost perma-quickness for a subgroup/party with no boon duration investment (whilst under the same conditions for DT pchrono). Why play trash tier dps specs when you can do the same damage AND supply one the most important boons in the game at the same time???
  • Lost Time doesn't deserve to exist in the grandmaster trait slot anymore, especially with the 3s ICD. It's now a complete garbage trait that doesn't even stand a chance against the other two, WAY more useful traits. I literally cannot see where it would be taken over Chronophantasma or the new Seize the Moment in a practical sense, EVER.

Doing this might also remind you that:

  • You promised to update some of weapon traits, especially the ones that give bonus stats. Well, Fencer's Finesse screams HELLO, since other similar traits give +120 ferocity PASSIVELY and another easy +120 for just equipping it. What's this measly +150 that can only be obtained by stacking hits beforehand only using the appropriate weapon?
  • Core mesmer is the only core profession with absolutely NO way to increase its crit chance, especially given that you've butchered external sources of precision. The amount of assassin's gear needed to reach the crit cap is plain stupid.
  • Danger Time could be a lot more dangerous if it was placed a grandmaster slot. Lost Time is lost... it needs help.
  • PvP chrono is still kinda dead from when you accidentally killed it, since this change won't even seem to matter.
  • The changes that keep being released is only making mesmer more and more unbalanced and unnecessarily complicated. If changes were reverted back a year, mesmer would probably be A LOT more balanced than it is now and easier to change according to the meta. Changes don't need to be made for the sake of making new problems.

Leaving us with these only tells us that you actually don't care about balance at all and that all these repeated balance changes are meant to be treated as literal jokes. Having to wait in 3 month intervals, whilst pointing various valid areas of improvement and QoL, only to get meh changes like this simply feels depressing.

Comments

  • Delofasht.4231Delofasht.4231 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2019

    Basically none of the real issues with Mesmer have been resolved, and the devs have shown that fixing any Mesmer issues is never going to happen. With that said, it is a waste of time to even bother with requests on these forums. They either do not read their official forums for input, or only pay attention to issues with Mesmer that are posted by the non-Mesmer community.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2019

    @Noodle Ant.1605
    Why would they make any of the changes you suggested? An "abomination" must be an oddity before its reined in.
    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    DT pchrono is stacked about equally to DH in raids. And much less when you count fractals.

    And if you are just using benchmarks, condi scourge has less dps than soulbeast, and warrior, both of which can bring important effects with no boon duration.

    Your post reads more like a complaint about general power creep leaving necromancer behind than anything specific to mesmer.

    It is understandable but maybe suggest a buff in the necromancer sub forum instead of singling out one of the many, many, many builds that out perform that spec.

  • @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @Noodle Ant.1605
    Why would they make any of the changes you suggested? An "abomination" must be an oddity before its reined in.
    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    DT pchrono is stacked about equally to DH in raids. And much less when you count fractals.

    And if you are just using benchmarks, condi scourge has less dps than soulbeast, and warrior, both of which can bring important effects with no boon duration.

    Your post reads more like a complaint about general power creep leaving necromancer behind than anything specific to mesmer.

    It is understandable but maybe suggest a buff in the necromancer sub forum instead of singling out one of the many, many, many builds that out perform that spec.

    It’s just a number. Did you know that pchrono without DT is also trash tier dps spec? Do you want me to replace that scourge with pchrono, because it basically proves the same point?

    It also seems like you missed these two points:

    • You promised to update some of weapon traits, especially the ones that give bonus stats. Well, Fencer's Finesse screams HELLO, since other similar traits give +120 ferocity PASSIVELY and another easy +120 for just equipping it. What's this measly +150 that can only be obtained by stacking hits beforehand only using the appropriate weapon?
    • Core mesmer is the only core profession with absolutely NO way to increase its crit chance, especially given that you've butchered external sources of precision. The amount of assassin's gear needed to reach the crit cap is plain stupid.

    ANY power mes build CANNOT be buffed and until DT is addressed first. This includes future especs. It is an uninteractive dmg increase that is actually literally as strong as Chronophantasma. Why it sits in the master tier while it provides grandmaster tier effects is very highly questionable.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2019

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @Noodle Ant.1605
    Why would they make any of the changes you suggested? An "abomination" must be an oddity before its reined in.
    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    DT pchrono is stacked about equally to DH in raids. And much less when you count fractals.

    And if you are just using benchmarks, condi scourge has less dps than soulbeast, and warrior, both of which can bring important effects with no boon duration.

    Your post reads more like a complaint about general power creep leaving necromancer behind than anything specific to mesmer.

    It is understandable but maybe suggest a buff in the necromancer sub forum instead of singling out one of the many, many, many builds that out perform that spec.

    It’s just a number. Did you know that pchrono without DT is also trash tier dps spec? Do you want me to replace that scourge with pchrono, because it basically proves the same point?

    Did you know that cmirage without IH is also not optimal? Its almost like builds take traits that favour them.

    There are variants of the pchrono dps builds, so why should I care if they all use DT. And pchrono without DT doesn't have to be dps. I hear pchrono support is top tier.

    It also seems like you missed these two points:

    • You promised to update some of weapon traits, especially the ones that give bonus stats. Well, Fencer's Finesse screams HELLO, since other similar traits give +120 ferocity PASSIVELY and another easy +120 for just equipping it. What's this measly +150 that can only be obtained by stacking hits beforehand only using the appropriate weapon?
    • Core mesmer is the only core profession with absolutely NO way to increase its crit chance, especially given that you've butchered external sources of precision. The amount of assassin's gear needed to reach the crit cap is plain stupid.

    I know of no such promise. And they can worry about core after they spend the development time fixing chrono in WvW and spvp.

    ANY power mes build CANNOT be buffed and until DT is addressed first. This includes future especs. It is an uninteractive dmg increase that is actually literally as strong as Chronophantasma. Why it sits in the master tier while it provides grandmaster tier effects is very highly questionable.

    That is your opinion and has no bearing on other especs, current or future.

    My opinion is your priorities are off. Stop asking for nerfs when we can't get basic stuff sorted.

  • Me Games Ma.8426Me Games Ma.8426 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2019

    I finally understand the reason behind the lost time change.

    Waiting for a fix on this is going to be 3 months of lost time...

    (I am telling you. Robert Gee is no longer with Arena Net...)

    Edit: I actually don't.believe that there will ever be a fix :(

  • @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @Noodle Ant.1605
    Why would they make any of the changes you suggested? An "abomination" must be an oddity before its reined in.
    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    DT pchrono is stacked about equally to DH in raids. And much less when you count fractals.

    And if you are just using benchmarks, condi scourge has less dps than soulbeast, and warrior, both of which can bring important effects with no boon duration.

    Your post reads more like a complaint about general power creep leaving necromancer behind than anything specific to mesmer.

    It is understandable but maybe suggest a buff in the necromancer sub forum instead of singling out one of the many, many, many builds that out perform that spec.

    It’s just a number. Did you know that pchrono without DT is also trash tier dps spec? Do you want me to replace that scourge with pchrono, because it basically proves the same point?

    Did you know that cmirage without IH is also not optimal? Its almost like builds take traits that favour them.

    Why are you comparing DT to IH? One procs every time he mirage dodges, whereas the other only exists for like what, maybe 5% of the game?

    There are variants of the pchrono dps builds, so why should I care if they all use DT. And pchrono without DT doesn't have to be dps. I hear pchrono support is top tier.

    DT pchrono was a mistake. Dps pchrono without DT is considered trash tier and unviable, because they nerfed it from viability for no reason.

    Why don’t you play another spec since they are definitely not returning IP anytime soon? Why should I care about your IP if what I play isn’t affected by it? /s.

    It also seems like you missed these two points:

    • You promised to update some of weapon traits, especially the ones that give bonus stats. Well, Fencer's Finesse screams HELLO, since other similar traits give +120 ferocity PASSIVELY and another easy +120 for just equipping it. What's this measly +150 that can only be obtained by stacking hits beforehand only using the appropriate weapon?
    • Core mesmer is the only core profession with absolutely NO way to increase its crit chance, especially given that you've butchered external sources of precision. The amount of assassin's gear needed to reach the crit cap is plain stupid.

    I know of no such promise. And they can worry about core after they spend the development time fixing chrono in WvW and spvp.

    Wow, I found it.

    we're continuing to update weapon traits to offer more meaningful options when players are not using the related weapons while also enhancing those weapons' playstyles if the player is using them

    Seem like they just forgot about it. Totally unexpected /s.

    Development time is not a currency. If so, they are definitely not spending it efficiently. They are intentionally choosing to leave chrono as is.

    Besides, if DT was moved to grandmaster, it has all the reason in the world to be as broken as it needs to be, to fix chrono in competitive gamemodes even without the need to pointlessly plead for IP to be restored (cuz it really doesn’t look like it will).

    ANY power mes build CANNOT be buffed and until DT is addressed first. This includes future especs. It is an uninteractive dmg increase that is actually literally as strong as Chronophantasma. Why it sits in the master tier while it provides grandmaster tier effects is very highly questionable.

    That is your opinion and has no bearing on other especs, current or future.

    Core mesmer cannot be buffed because DT chrono will be buffed. Every espec stems from core mesmer which, if left in its current state, will only create broken especs and more QQ. It is ridiculously close to reaching a balanced state where all especs will be much easier to manage, and the denial of this path of least resistance is disappointing.

    My opinion is your priorities are off. Stop asking for nerfs when we can't get basic stuff sorted.

    DT is an infection that has just been left to worsen and kitten the development of chrono. It needs to be addressed. Tbh, this actual, proper nerf wouldn’t affect anyone unless they plan to or are already abusing the brokenness of DT, and desperately holding on it is only dooming chrono to die.

  • @Me Games Ma.8426 said:
    I finally understand the reason behind the lost time change.

    Waiting for a fix on this is going to be 3 months of lost time...

    (I am telling you. Robert Gee is no longer with Arena Net...)

    Edit: I actually don't.believe that there will ever be a fix :(

    Robert Gee just posted on the balance thread.
    Now If it was Irenio who designed the mesmer elites, mesmer wouldn't had received 1/3 of these post-pof nerfs.

    The degenerate

  • Bring back Irenio

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2019

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @Noodle Ant.1605
    Why would they make any of the changes you suggested? An "abomination" must be an oddity before its reined in.
    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    DT pchrono is stacked about equally to DH in raids. And much less when you count fractals.

    And if you are just using benchmarks, condi scourge has less dps than soulbeast, and warrior, both of which can bring important effects with no boon duration.

    Your post reads more like a complaint about general power creep leaving necromancer behind than anything specific to mesmer.

    It is understandable but maybe suggest a buff in the necromancer sub forum instead of singling out one of the many, many, many builds that out perform that spec.

    It’s just a number. Did you know that pchrono without DT is also trash tier dps spec? Do you want me to replace that scourge with pchrono, because it basically proves the same point?

    Did you know that cmirage without IH is also not optimal? Its almost like builds take traits that favour them.

    Why are you comparing DT to IH? One procs every time he mirage dodges, whereas the other only exists for like what, maybe 5% of the game

    There are variants of the pchrono dps builds, so why should I care if they all use DT. And pchrono without DT doesn't have to be dps. I hear pchrono support is top tier.

    DT pchrono was a mistake. Dps pchrono without DT is considered trash tier and unviable, because they nerfed it from viability for no reason.

    Why don’t you play another spec since they are definitely not returning IP anytime soon? Why should I care about your IP if what I play isn’t affected by it? /s.

    It also seems like you missed these two points:

    • You promised to update some of weapon traits, especially the ones that give bonus stats. Well, Fencer's Finesse screams HELLO, since other similar traits give +120 ferocity PASSIVELY and another easy +120 for just equipping it. What's this measly +150 that can only be obtained by stacking hits beforehand only using the appropriate weapon?
    • Core mesmer is the only core profession with absolutely NO way to increase its crit chance, especially given that you've butchered external sources of precision. The amount of assassin's gear needed to reach the crit cap is plain stupid.

    I know of no such promise. And they can worry about core after they spend the development time fixing chrono in WvW and spvp.

    Wow, I found it.

    we're continuing to update weapon traits to offer more meaningful options when players are not using the related weapons while also enhancing those weapons' playstyles if the player is using them

    Seem like they just forgot about it. Totally unexpected /s.

    Development time is not a currency. If so, they are definitely not spending it efficiently. They are intentionally choosing to leave chrono as is.

    Besides, if DT was moved to grandmaster, it has all the reason in the world to be as broken as it needs to be, to fix chrono in competitive gamemodes even without the need to pointlessly plead for IP to be restored (cuz it really doesn’t look like it will).

    ANY power mes build CANNOT be buffed and until DT is addressed first. This includes future especs. It is an uninteractive dmg increase that is actually literally as strong as Chronophantasma. Why it sits in the master tier while it provides grandmaster tier effects is very highly questionable.

    That is your opinion and has no bearing on other especs, current or future.

    Core mesmer cannot be buffed because DT chrono will be buffed. Every espec stems from core mesmer which, if left in its current state, will only create broken especs and more QQ. It is ridiculously close to reaching a balanced state where all especs will be much easier to manage, and the denial of this path of least resistance is disappointing.

    My opinion is your priorities are off. Stop asking for nerfs when we can't get basic stuff sorted.

    DT is an infection that has just been left to worsen and kitten the development of chrono. It needs to be addressed. Tbh, this actual, proper nerf wouldn’t affect anyone unless they plan to or are already abusing the brokenness of DT, and desperately holding on it is only dooming chrono to die.

    So this is all about core, not "future especs". Are you free to play or something?

    There is no brokenness. Pchrono is stacked less than DH. And slightly more than Deadeye.

    You don't care about mesmer being viable in multiple game modes. You care about not having to buy Heart of Thorns. Saying things like "future especs" is nonsense.

    This isn't a deceptive evasion situation where the class mechanic is being limited. All professions pick as many modifiers as they can for dps builds. To diverge from that is a choice.

    Mesmer's viability in each game mode is more important than whether a dps chrono can take improved alacrity.

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @Noodle Ant.1605
    Why would they make any of the changes you suggested? An "abomination" must be an oddity before its reined in.
    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    DT pchrono is stacked about equally to DH in raids. And much less when you count fractals.

    And if you are just using benchmarks, condi scourge has less dps than soulbeast, and warrior, both of which can bring important effects with no boon duration.

    Your post reads more like a complaint about general power creep leaving necromancer behind than anything specific to mesmer.

    It is understandable but maybe suggest a buff in the necromancer sub forum instead of singling out one of the many, many, many builds that out perform that spec.

    It’s just a number. Did you know that pchrono without DT is also trash tier dps spec? Do you want me to replace that scourge with pchrono, because it basically proves the same point?

    Did you know that cmirage without IH is also not optimal? Its almost like builds take traits that favour them.

    Why are you comparing DT to IH? One procs every time he mirage dodges, whereas the other only exists for like what, maybe 5% of the game

    There are variants of the pchrono dps builds, so why should I care if they all use DT. And pchrono without DT doesn't have to be dps. I hear pchrono support is top tier.

    DT pchrono was a mistake. Dps pchrono without DT is considered trash tier and unviable, because they nerfed it from viability for no reason.

    Why don’t you play another spec since they are definitely not returning IP anytime soon? Why should I care about your IP if what I play isn’t affected by it? /s.

    It also seems like you missed these two points:

    • You promised to update some of weapon traits, especially the ones that give bonus stats. Well, Fencer's Finesse screams HELLO, since other similar traits give +120 ferocity PASSIVELY and another easy +120 for just equipping it. What's this measly +150 that can only be obtained by stacking hits beforehand only using the appropriate weapon?
    • Core mesmer is the only core profession with absolutely NO way to increase its crit chance, especially given that you've butchered external sources of precision. The amount of assassin's gear needed to reach the crit cap is plain stupid.

    I know of no such promise. And they can worry about core after they spend the development time fixing chrono in WvW and spvp.

    Wow, I found it.

    we're continuing to update weapon traits to offer more meaningful options when players are not using the related weapons while also enhancing those weapons' playstyles if the player is using them

    Seem like they just forgot about it. Totally unexpected /s.

    Development time is not a currency. If so, they are definitely not spending it efficiently. They are intentionally choosing to leave chrono as is.

    Besides, if DT was moved to grandmaster, it has all the reason in the world to be as broken as it needs to be, to fix chrono in competitive gamemodes even without the need to pointlessly plead for IP to be restored (cuz it really doesn’t look like it will).

    ANY power mes build CANNOT be buffed and until DT is addressed first. This includes future especs. It is an uninteractive dmg increase that is actually literally as strong as Chronophantasma. Why it sits in the master tier while it provides grandmaster tier effects is very highly questionable.

    That is your opinion and has no bearing on other especs, current or future.

    Core mesmer cannot be buffed because DT chrono will be buffed. Every espec stems from core mesmer which, if left in its current state, will only create broken especs and more QQ. It is ridiculously close to reaching a balanced state where all especs will be much easier to manage, and the denial of this path of least resistance is disappointing.

    My opinion is your priorities are off. Stop asking for nerfs when we can't get basic stuff sorted.

    DT is an infection that has just been left to worsen and kitten the development of chrono. It needs to be addressed. Tbh, this actual, proper nerf wouldn’t affect anyone unless they plan to or are already abusing the brokenness of DT, and desperately holding on it is only dooming chrono to die.

    So this is all about core, not "future especs". Are you free to play or something?

    There is no brokenness. Pchrono is stacked less than DH. And slightly more than Deadeye.

    You don't care about mesmer being viable in multiple game modes. You care about not having to buy Heart of Thorns. Saying things like "future especs" is nonsense.

    This isn't a deceptive evasion situation where the class mechanic is being limited. All professions pick as many modifiers as they can for dps builds. To diverge from that is a choice.

    Mesmer's viability in each game mode is more important than whether a dps chrono can take improved alacrity.

    Are you actually kidding me?

    I main dps pchrono, I KNOW how it works. And I just happen to have observed that ever since Danger Time got changed to its abominable state (42k bench when it was first released, mind you) chrono has just eaten nerf after nerf because hey look that trait is sooooo viable (P.S don’t take it outside of raids, it’s useless).

    Damage modifiers are one thing. When they take effect is another. When people are rebutting with Snowcrow’s DT pchrono (‘It’s higher than many other power specs, blah blah w/e’) in anything but organised raids, I cringe - because if you take that build anywhere else, you do as much dps as core mes, wow. Both IA and IR are 95% more useful than DT in terms of dps simply because of the slow requirement.

    You know why DT chronos aren’t stacked? It’s because it doesn’t work. How about we get rid of it and work with the things that do work? That’s why it’s an infection - 42-38-37k looks REAL BIG, but what happens if the chrono can’t demand perma slow from its group? It doesn’t exist. Trash tier dps.

    If DT worked really well in PvP (which it doesn’t really) then maybe I’d reconsider, but then slow on CC (pre-patch Lost Time) was just shafted and... oh wait, why aren’t you calling reverts on that too? And if DT was moved to grandmaster... you have all the flexibility in the world to make a PvP spec viable.

    Maybe stop throwing out ridiculous assumptions and actually find ways to fix your precious spec outside of futilely begging for IP to be restored? To me, you sound like someone’s whose still bawling their eyes out after the chrono trade off and really, the best solution is for you to stop playing it. But how in the world does me insulting you help the state of chrono at all?

    And why are you even so against this specific change even though it actually fixes the spec in some way?

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @Noodle Ant.1605
    Why would they make any of the changes you suggested? An "abomination" must be an oddity before its reined in.
    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    DT pchrono is stacked about equally to DH in raids. And much less when you count fractals.

    And if you are just using benchmarks, condi scourge has less dps than soulbeast, and warrior, both of which can bring important effects with no boon duration.

    Your post reads more like a complaint about general power creep leaving necromancer behind than anything specific to mesmer.

    It is understandable but maybe suggest a buff in the necromancer sub forum instead of singling out one of the many, many, many builds that out perform that spec.

    It’s just a number. Did you know that pchrono without DT is also trash tier dps spec? Do you want me to replace that scourge with pchrono, because it basically proves the same point?

    Did you know that cmirage without IH is also not optimal? Its almost like builds take traits that favour them.

    Why are you comparing DT to IH? One procs every time he mirage dodges, whereas the other only exists for like what, maybe 5% of the game

    There are variants of the pchrono dps builds, so why should I care if they all use DT. And pchrono without DT doesn't have to be dps. I hear pchrono support is top tier.

    DT pchrono was a mistake. Dps pchrono without DT is considered trash tier and unviable, because they nerfed it from viability for no reason.

    Why don’t you play another spec since they are definitely not returning IP anytime soon? Why should I care about your IP if what I play isn’t affected by it? /s.

    It also seems like you missed these two points:

    • You promised to update some of weapon traits, especially the ones that give bonus stats. Well, Fencer's Finesse screams HELLO, since other similar traits give +120 ferocity PASSIVELY and another easy +120 for just equipping it. What's this measly +150 that can only be obtained by stacking hits beforehand only using the appropriate weapon?
    • Core mesmer is the only core profession with absolutely NO way to increase its crit chance, especially given that you've butchered external sources of precision. The amount of assassin's gear needed to reach the crit cap is plain stupid.

    I know of no such promise. And they can worry about core after they spend the development time fixing chrono in WvW and spvp.

    Wow, I found it.

    we're continuing to update weapon traits to offer more meaningful options when players are not using the related weapons while also enhancing those weapons' playstyles if the player is using them

    Seem like they just forgot about it. Totally unexpected /s.

    Development time is not a currency. If so, they are definitely not spending it efficiently. They are intentionally choosing to leave chrono as is.

    Besides, if DT was moved to grandmaster, it has all the reason in the world to be as broken as it needs to be, to fix chrono in competitive gamemodes even without the need to pointlessly plead for IP to be restored (cuz it really doesn’t look like it will).

    ANY power mes build CANNOT be buffed and until DT is addressed first. This includes future especs. It is an uninteractive dmg increase that is actually literally as strong as Chronophantasma. Why it sits in the master tier while it provides grandmaster tier effects is very highly questionable.

    That is your opinion and has no bearing on other especs, current or future.

    Core mesmer cannot be buffed because DT chrono will be buffed. Every espec stems from core mesmer which, if left in its current state, will only create broken especs and more QQ. It is ridiculously close to reaching a balanced state where all especs will be much easier to manage, and the denial of this path of least resistance is disappointing.

    My opinion is your priorities are off. Stop asking for nerfs when we can't get basic stuff sorted.

    DT is an infection that has just been left to worsen and kitten the development of chrono. It needs to be addressed. Tbh, this actual, proper nerf wouldn’t affect anyone unless they plan to or are already abusing the brokenness of DT, and desperately holding on it is only dooming chrono to die.

    So this is all about core, not "future especs". Are you free to play or something?

    There is no brokenness. Pchrono is stacked less than DH. And slightly more than Deadeye.

    You don't care about mesmer being viable in multiple game modes. You care about not having to buy Heart of Thorns. Saying things like "future especs" is nonsense.

    This isn't a deceptive evasion situation where the class mechanic is being limited. All professions pick as many modifiers as they can for dps builds. To diverge from that is a choice.

    Mesmer's viability in each game mode is more important than whether a dps chrono can take improved alacrity.

    Are you actually kidding me?

    I main dps pchrono, I KNOW how it works. And I just happen to have observed that ever since Danger Time got changed to its abominable state (42k bench when it was first released, mind you) chrono has just eaten nerf after nerf because hey look that trait is sooooo viable (P.S don’t take it outside of raids, it’s useless).

    Damage modifiers are one thing. When they take effect is another. When people are rebutting with Snowcrow’s DT pchrono (‘It’s higher than many other power specs, blah blah w/e’) in anything but organised raids, I cringe - because if you take that build anywhere else, you do as much dps as core mes, wow. Both IA and IR are 95% more useful than DT in terms of dps simply because of the slow requirement.

    You know why DT chronos aren’t stacked? It’s because it doesn’t work. How about we get rid of it and work with the things that do work? That’s why it’s an infection - 42-38-37k looks REAL BIG, but what happens if the chrono can’t demand perma slow from its group? It doesn’t exist. Trash tier dps.

    If DT worked really well in PvP (which it doesn’t really) then maybe I’d reconsider, but then slow on CC (pre-patch Lost Time) was just shafted and... oh wait, why aren’t you calling reverts on that too? And if DT was moved to grandmaster... you have all the flexibility in the world to make a PvP spec viable.

    Maybe stop throwing out ridiculous assumptions and actually find ways to fix your precious spec outside of futilely begging for IP to be restored? To me, you sound like someone’s whose still bawling their eyes out after the chrono trade off and really, the best solution is for you to stop playing it. But how in the world does me insulting you help the state of chrono at all?

    And why are you even so against this specific change even though it actually fixes the spec in some way?

    What fix? They are incompetent at buffing things following a nerf. All that will happen is dps chrono instead of being meta in raids will be meta in nothing. The trait would simply be gone and there would be no recourse.

    For this reason, I don't care if DT doesn't work very well in PvP and people are forced to use Mirage. At least Mesmer is viable in that game mode.

    You see buffing Seize the Moment as an affront to dps scourge. I see it as a a step towards fixing well dependency.

    Why must we lose more things? At this point only lateral trades or buffs are tolerable.

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @Noodle Ant.1605
    Why would they make any of the changes you suggested? An "abomination" must be an oddity before its reined in.
    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    DT pchrono is stacked about equally to DH in raids. And much less when you count fractals.

    And if you are just using benchmarks, condi scourge has less dps than soulbeast, and warrior, both of which can bring important effects with no boon duration.

    Your post reads more like a complaint about general power creep leaving necromancer behind than anything specific to mesmer.

    It is understandable but maybe suggest a buff in the necromancer sub forum instead of singling out one of the many, many, many builds that out perform that spec.

    It’s just a number. Did you know that pchrono without DT is also trash tier dps spec? Do you want me to replace that scourge with pchrono, because it basically proves the same point?

    Did you know that cmirage without IH is also not optimal? Its almost like builds take traits that favour them.

    Why are you comparing DT to IH? One procs every time he mirage dodges, whereas the other only exists for like what, maybe 5% of the game

    There are variants of the pchrono dps builds, so why should I care if they all use DT. And pchrono without DT doesn't have to be dps. I hear pchrono support is top tier.

    DT pchrono was a mistake. Dps pchrono without DT is considered trash tier and unviable, because they nerfed it from viability for no reason.

    Why don’t you play another spec since they are definitely not returning IP anytime soon? Why should I care about your IP if what I play isn’t affected by it? /s.

    It also seems like you missed these two points:

    • You promised to update some of weapon traits, especially the ones that give bonus stats. Well, Fencer's Finesse screams HELLO, since other similar traits give +120 ferocity PASSIVELY and another easy +120 for just equipping it. What's this measly +150 that can only be obtained by stacking hits beforehand only using the appropriate weapon?
    • Core mesmer is the only core profession with absolutely NO way to increase its crit chance, especially given that you've butchered external sources of precision. The amount of assassin's gear needed to reach the crit cap is plain stupid.

    I know of no such promise. And they can worry about core after they spend the development time fixing chrono in WvW and spvp.

    Wow, I found it.

    we're continuing to update weapon traits to offer more meaningful options when players are not using the related weapons while also enhancing those weapons' playstyles if the player is using them

    Seem like they just forgot about it. Totally unexpected /s.

    Development time is not a currency. If so, they are definitely not spending it efficiently. They are intentionally choosing to leave chrono as is.

    Besides, if DT was moved to grandmaster, it has all the reason in the world to be as broken as it needs to be, to fix chrono in competitive gamemodes even without the need to pointlessly plead for IP to be restored (cuz it really doesn’t look like it will).

    ANY power mes build CANNOT be buffed and until DT is addressed first. This includes future especs. It is an uninteractive dmg increase that is actually literally as strong as Chronophantasma. Why it sits in the master tier while it provides grandmaster tier effects is very highly questionable.

    That is your opinion and has no bearing on other especs, current or future.

    Core mesmer cannot be buffed because DT chrono will be buffed. Every espec stems from core mesmer which, if left in its current state, will only create broken especs and more QQ. It is ridiculously close to reaching a balanced state where all especs will be much easier to manage, and the denial of this path of least resistance is disappointing.

    My opinion is your priorities are off. Stop asking for nerfs when we can't get basic stuff sorted.

    DT is an infection that has just been left to worsen and kitten the development of chrono. It needs to be addressed. Tbh, this actual, proper nerf wouldn’t affect anyone unless they plan to or are already abusing the brokenness of DT, and desperately holding on it is only dooming chrono to die.

    So this is all about core, not "future especs". Are you free to play or something?

    There is no brokenness. Pchrono is stacked less than DH. And slightly more than Deadeye.

    You don't care about mesmer being viable in multiple game modes. You care about not having to buy Heart of Thorns. Saying things like "future especs" is nonsense.

    This isn't a deceptive evasion situation where the class mechanic is being limited. All professions pick as many modifiers as they can for dps builds. To diverge from that is a choice.

    Mesmer's viability in each game mode is more important than whether a dps chrono can take improved alacrity.

    Are you actually kidding me?

    I main dps pchrono, I KNOW how it works. And I just happen to have observed that ever since Danger Time got changed to its abominable state (42k bench when it was first released, mind you) chrono has just eaten nerf after nerf because hey look that trait is sooooo viable (P.S don’t take it outside of raids, it’s useless).

    Damage modifiers are one thing. When they take effect is another. When people are rebutting with Snowcrow’s DT pchrono (‘It’s higher than many other power specs, blah blah w/e’) in anything but organised raids, I cringe - because if you take that build anywhere else, you do as much dps as core mes, wow. Both IA and IR are 95% more useful than DT in terms of dps simply because of the slow requirement.

    You know why DT chronos aren’t stacked? It’s because it doesn’t work. How about we get rid of it and work with the things that do work? That’s why it’s an infection - 42-38-37k looks REAL BIG, but what happens if the chrono can’t demand perma slow from its group? It doesn’t exist. Trash tier dps.

    If DT worked really well in PvP (which it doesn’t really) then maybe I’d reconsider, but then slow on CC (pre-patch Lost Time) was just shafted and... oh wait, why aren’t you calling reverts on that too? And if DT was moved to grandmaster... you have all the flexibility in the world to make a PvP spec viable.

    Maybe stop throwing out ridiculous assumptions and actually find ways to fix your precious spec outside of futilely begging for IP to be restored? To me, you sound like someone’s whose still bawling their eyes out after the chrono trade off and really, the best solution is for you to stop playing it. But how in the world does me insulting you help the state of chrono at all?

    And why are you even so against this specific change even though it actually fixes the spec in some way?

    What fix? They are incompetent at buffing things following a nerf. All that will happen is dps chrono instead of being meta in raids will be meta in nothing. The trait would simply be gone and there would be no recourse.

    For this reason, I don't care if DT doesn't work very well in PvP and people are forced to use Mirage. At least Mesmer is viable in that game mode.

    You see buffing Seize the Moment as an affront to dps scourge. I see it as a a step towards fixing well dependency.

    Why must we lose more things? At this point only lateral trades or buffs are tolerable.

    Have you accidentally become dangerously attached to the trait now? If so, I can’t say I feel sorry because either you saw that change and didn’t think ‘this won’t last forever’ or that you’re foolishly wanting to hold onto the trait so that chrono can continue dying.

    ‘No recourse’ - that’s what you think. I think it’s because they see a big fat viable trait that doesn’t need any compensation. Maybe we should stop thinking and having opinions thanks /s.

    Where did I say that I didn’t approve of the Seize the Moment buff? Did you not see the ‘Danger Time’ attached to it? Without DT, it would deal closer to 23-24k and that’s a lot more acceptable in my eyes.

    Big edit:

    I forgot to quote :sweat_smile:.

    DT is part of the recourse. Or are these continuous string of nerfs the recourse of DT?

    Moving DT isn’t all about PvE dps. It stops them from thinking that chrono offense needs to be slow-centric, which is absurd. Split Second’s bonus and Time Sink come into mind.

    Many of us can agree the trade offs are incomplete, compensation-wise (without DT), especially the really uninteresting shatters. How about planning from there instead of denying the fixing something else that’s destroying the spec, since it’s half obvious any change won’t be rolled out until the next 3 months?

  • Nepster.4275Nepster.4275 Member ✭✭✭

    As I see from your talking, OP doesnt want to make chrono go useless, he just wants to prevent it from getting the same treatment as Staff Weaver did, or well, I guess that what he wants. Aside from that, in my honest opinion, supp chrono can be fully replaced in 90% of the raids, its already fully replaced in fractals, atleast pChrono has a place in raids but aside from some bosses pChrono isnt really good, I mean, its really not working as OP said, being that dependent on slow is just a joke in itself, like look at Weaver it is dependent on weakness a condition that even the weaver itself can generate and also weakness in itself isnt a rare condition. On the other hand, pChrono isnt doing that high damage, it generates quickness and some alac and might for itself but aside from that nothing special about pChrono, DT should not be changed, and should not even be moved, it only gives 15% crit chance and 10% damage, there are traits on other classes that are the same if not better, and they are not grandmaster line either.
    And since you were building your opinion on SC site, and said its doing way above avg dps, it isnt, if you take the top 10 dps classes and their DPS, the avg number is 36949, chrono is 36474(if we take the grinded numbers, with avg numbers maybe it would get higher than avg but its still not way above it, not even talking about the slow depency)
    My overal opinion about pChrono is that its fine, just like mirage, its used on some bosses for abusing it, doesnt really work on others.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They actually forgot to disable that elite spec

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    @Nepster.4275 said:
    DT should not be changed, and should not even be moved, it only gives 15% crit chance and 10% damage, there are traits on other classes that are the same if not better, and they are not grandmaster line either.

    It’s a straight up ~20% dps boost, not sure of other non-grandmaster traits that do the same, but the main gripe is that the chrono using it does literally nothing to contribute to the slow uptime. Or alternatively, it just doesn’t exist at all :smile:

    Also, it’s the DT + Chronophantasma (~20% & ~25%) put together which makes chrono comparatively busted to core (which means future especs will need to be blown up similarly to compete). A change I’ve been asking for some time now is for a simple crit chance boost for core mes, which can be ripped off from/at least devalues DT, with the current intention of preventing chrono from being trash given low uptime on such a rare condition.

    And since you were building your opinion on SC site, and said its doing way above avg dps, it isnt, if you take the top 10 dps classes and their DPS, the avg number is 36949, chrono is 36474(if we take the grinded numbers, with avg numbers maybe it would get higher than avg but its still not way above it, not even talking about the slow depency)

    This isn’t me personally speaking, but all power specs beneath pchrono’s number would like to have a word, despite being better in different ways. We are often portrayed as delusional whenever discussing the unpromising state of chrono, since that number exists.

    My overal opinion about pChrono is that its fine, just like mirage, its used on some bosses for abusing it, doesnt really work on others.

    Not sure what to think. pChrono is heavily dependant on both boss AND comp. Given that the spec already doesn’t perform the same across different bosses/encounters (sometimes horribly so), I would at least like to reduce the dependency on having slow just to simply do ‘viable’ dps.

    If mirage is capable of doing almost the same amount of dps as no-slow pchrono on a stationary golem that doesn’t move or attack (no confusion and torment dmg bonus and also ideal conditions for the pchrono), I would treat this issue as something worth considering. Moving DT with LT was just a one of many possible suggestions to address the bigger picture.

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    They actually forgot to disable that elite spec

    They still need something for players to put in upcoming build templates :grimace:.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    They actually forgot to disable that elite spec

    They still need something for players to put in upcoming build templates :grimace:.

    Chronos not in the list for templates ;)