tankes

[montaraz.5963]

Good;a question¿ apart from him mesmer is there any other tanke pve?it would be nice if you would put some other tanke for pve that is not always the same to vary.As Guardian,warrior, revenant .There are many skins that are not used in those classes you could change them.

[steki.1478]

You can tank on any meta support or generally any healer.

[RedShark.9548]

@steki.1478 said:You can tank on any meta support or generally any healer.

I dont think you can tank pve raids etc as warrior or revenant, im not rly into that, but ive never heard of them as being played as tanks.

Which is weird since they are heavy armor and get outshined by a light armor class. I think thats what the op was trying to say.

I dont get the last sentence tho.

[steki.1478]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@steki.1478 said:You can tank on any meta support or generally any healer.

I dont think you can tank pve raids etc as warrior or revenant, im not rly into that, but ive never heard of them as being played as tanks.

Which is weird since they are heavy armor and get outshined by a light armor class. I think thats what the op was trying to say.

I dont get the last sentence tho.

You're forgetting that armor type has absolutely no value outside of RP and visuals.

Mesmer isn't a tank because no other class can avoid taking damage that well. It's a tank because you can do your original role (support) while tanking without losing absolutely anything. Other classes would need to change weapons and traits which will benefit only them, but mesmer doesn't need to.

[RedShark.9548]

@steki.1478 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@steki.1478 said:You can tank on any meta support or generally any healer.

I dont think you can tank pve raids etc as warrior or revenant, im not rly into that, but ive never heard of them as being played as tanks.

Which is weird since they are heavy armor and get outshined by a light armor class. I think thats what the op was trying to say.

I dont get the last sentence tho.

You're forgetting that armor type has absolutely no value outside of RP and visuals.

Mesmer isn't a tank because no other class can avoid taking damage that well. It's a tank because you can do your original role (support) while tanking without losing absolutely anything. Other classes would need to change weapons and traits which will benefit only them, but mesmer doesn't need to.

Im not rly forgetting it. Its just common sense that a heavy armored unit could negate more dmg than a dude in a clothrobe. Ofc common sense is not appliable in gw2, because of magic n shizz. But the op probably used his common sense.And i also think that mesmer has still the most tools to negate dmg, even if others would change gear.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@steki.1478 said:You can tank on any meta support or generally any healer.

I dont think you can tank pve raids etc as warrior or revenant, im not rly into that, but ive never heard of them as being played as tanks.

Which is weird since they are heavy armor and get outshined by a light armor class. I think thats what the op was trying to say.

I dont get the last sentence tho.

You can absolutely tank as a Revenant I’ve done it at least once on every boss that requires a tank.

As for OP, Firebrand and Chrono are the two best tanks at the moment imo

[starlinvf.1358]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@steki.1478 said:You can tank on any meta support or generally any healer.

I dont think you can tank pve raids etc as warrior or revenant, im not rly into that, but ive never heard of them as being played as tanks.

Which is weird since they are heavy armor and get outshined by a light armor class. I think thats what the op was trying to say.

I dont get the last sentence tho.

You're forgetting that armor type has absolutely no value outside of RP and visuals.

Mesmer isn't a tank because no other class can avoid taking damage that well. It's a tank because you can do your original role (support) while tanking without losing absolutely anything. Other classes would need to change weapons and traits which will benefit only them, but mesmer doesn't need to.

Im not rly forgetting it. Its just common sense that a heavy armored unit could negate more dmg than a dude in a clothrobe. Ofc common sense is not appliable in gw2, because of magic n shizz. But the op probably used his common sense.And i also think that mesmer has still the most tools to negate dmg, even if others would change gear.

The ultimate irony here is that this "lack of common sense, cuz magic and shiz" basically exposes the illogical structure of classic "Tank and Spank" Trinity Comps.

Evasion builds ARE the Ideal archetype for a Tank, based on the flawed logic of how raids are normally designed.

Damage mitigation just reduces damage.... thus damage of enough magnitude and volume can easily overwhelm it, and has to be healed. This is the foundation the Hard trinity that everyone seems so fond of. Evasion is the penultimate defense, second only to "no hit box". It even outclasses most types of immunties, as there are a lot of "On-hit" mechanics that are still applicable, even if the strikes do no damage themselves. (Case in point, Ranger Stone Signet and Warrior defy pain still being vulnerable to Condition application).

Evasion IS "Damage avoidance", and inherently means no damage is taken, no effects are applied, and thus does not tax the healer. Its also a flat mechanical effect, so no amount of numerical fiddling of damage values can possibly overwhelm it. Its also superior to blocks, as many games have other mechanics that bypass or interplay with blocks. Evasion is so damn powerful, some of the newer bosses in various game modes are given attacks that bypass Evasion. Mesmer's Shared Distortion trait was nerfed down to only giving aegis, because it was able to bypass 1-shot mechanics in a couple of HOT raids for a whole group. Sparcus in the Boss Blitz has lava walls that bypass all known defenses, always dealing a huge amount of damage if you physically pass through it. Having seen what they did to Continuum split, I wouldn't be surprised if future raids also have specific mechanics to directly shutdown Distortion/Evasion as an option.

Ultimately the only reason Evasion is rarely useful in WoW-esque type games is how the combat, and by extension all the defense options, are governed by probability. The designers of those games manipulate that probability to do whatever they need/want it to do..... hence why RNG has become an increasingly overbearing and aggressive element of RPG-like games in the wake of MMOs. And evasion in boss fights can be controlled entirely on the Dev's side via probability and modifiers. But in action based games like GW2 and Tera, the mechanical nature of, and ability to actively control, all of our defenses make them reliable enough to counter any applicable threat or attack by way of player action.

If you look the structure of a typical Raid boss, the tank role is an extremely dumbed down version of PvP. You have an enemy that fixates on one target, only attacks once every few seconds at most, and usually has its damage potential loaded almost entirely into a single strike. It also doesn't move of its own initiative, or does a simple "follow" of the tank (it can be done- but historically PvE players are almost incapable of cooping with a mobile target). It doesn't try to avoid attacks, and only really survives by a combination of a massive HP pool and secondary mechanics to control their vulnerability profile. A GW2 world boss is effectively what a Raid boss IS without those secondary mechanics and environmental hazards. The Boss tank is also a 1v1 engagement from the player perspective, letting them focus all their attention on timing defenses and managing resources. Thief could reasonably do this job as well, except its defenses operate in a way that aren't conductive to keeping a boss stationary (see note about mobile bosses above). Being a PvP Duelist class at its core, and heavily built around damage avoidance, Memser is incredibly well suited for this type of fight situation.

But this only covers one of the reasons Chrono dominates that spot. Chrono takes this 2 steps further by having its Support skills not being in direct competition with what it uses to tank, and the support side of the build itself offers both Alacrity and Quickness in a single party slot; a Boon combination that doesn't exist in any other build to date. This gives Chrono a 3:1 Role Compression (Tank, Boon, and Area Control), where any other class could barely manage 2 at a trade off. It was arguably 4:1 at the start of HOT, since Signet of Inspiration could replicate (and maintain) a full set of boons once sparked from the party.

It takes a minimum of 3 supports to do what Chrono Tank does in 1 slot. 2 Chronos can cover all major boons for a party, except the 25 might stacking. The next closest party comp just to get Quickness and Alacrity is 2 FBs and a Renegade, which is 3 slots for the foundation of the party comp. You still need a Might Stacker and Healer build, which is usually compressed into Druid since the Sun/Frost Spirit/Spotter buffs are unique to, and brought by a Ranger anyway. Splitting the Druid would means the Boon stacker is probably off-DPS, and a high possibility of needing 2 full healing builds instead of a supplemental one for the split group.

While various party comps are POSSIBLE and viable, Druid and Twin Chrono allows you to build a party for ANY raid wing with only 3 Mandatory slots, leaves you 7 slots for DPS and/or fight specific builds, and is universally compatible with any hybrids needed to help party suvivabilty. A Party without Twin Chrono needs roughly 5 slots doing some kind of support job, and much more heavily distributed..... which means only certain build pairings are viable, on top of the fact that some of those builds aren't viable in certain fights.

The circumstance that allowed Chrono to accomplish this, just lends further evidence to how convoluted and arbitrary conventional Raid boss design actually is in its quest to "be difficult". HP Soaking is an antiquated method. Where its prevalence was once a technical necessity, its decayed into an ever escalating game of numbers that players have become increasing efficient at overcoming. I dare say that if we ever get a Raid boss that knows how to fight like a PvP player, you'll quickly see the team comp morph into GvG strategies. And I welcome that day; as we'll finally see a PvE fight that takes proper advantage of the game's combat system.

[Aeolus.3615]

Revenant is a good tank as well, barrier, damage reduction, better passive heals than guardian condinclense etc.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

Firebrands, thiefs and druids tank some encounters in meta compositions too. Everything can tank but usualy those 4 are the ones that lose the least whike doing so.

[Knighthonor.4061]

What do Tanks do in GW2 Raids? And why are Mesmers the best at it?

[sokeenoppa.5384]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@steki.1478 said:You can tank on any meta support or generally any healer.

I dont think you can tank pve raids etc as warrior or revenant, im not rly into that, but ive never heard of them as being played as tanks.

Which is weird since they are heavy armor and get outshined by a light armor class. I think thats what the op was trying to say.

I dont get the last sentence tho.

Revenant and druid are meta tanks in raids at many bosses these days

[Aeolus.3615]

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@steki.1478 said:You can tank on any meta support or generally any healer.

I dont think you can tank pve raids etc as warrior or revenant, im not rly into that, but ive never heard of them as being played as tanks.

Which is weird since they are heavy armor and get outshined by a light armor class. I think thats what the op was trying to say.

I dont get the last sentence tho.

Revenant and druid are meta tanks in raids at many bosses these days

sounds like what i have been playing has future on organized raid LOL.