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Upcoming Ranger Changes - Extremely Sad


shadowpass.4236

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yeah it's sad that at 2000 range and with skills like rapid fire and the soulbeast modifiers that they didn't nerf all the lb's dps across all its skill as it should be :) lb given its range and the safety it puts ranger in hits way to hard. Theres some great rangers out there that can fight great but the way ranger is now due to it's crazy ranged dps it promotes sitting back and just pew pew pew pew pew pew pew lol resulting in players being carried which is unhealthy for the game. Like alot of things are in this game lol.

Just remove the projectile speed increases that Longbow got.This will let players strafe to avoid arrows like we used to be able to do at launch. It's a great mechanic in GW1 and should have been kept here.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Power stab is a 1s evade and has no cool down.I can't believe people are defending this :joy:

No cooldown? It's not like Power Stab
is
the greatsword auto and I can just spam it nonstop.

There are two attacks that come first that can be interrupted or kited.

Imagine defending a 20k instant oneshot from stealth but thinking a 1s evade with a buildup is too strong. :joy:

Power Stab is a 1s evade. FACT.Power Stab has no cool down. FACT.

Nothing I said was incorrect, imagine discussing semantics when I stated FACTS. :joy:

Proof:

Shadowpass you obviously don't get that Apharma is just doing with your Ranger what you do with Mesmer traits and skills? Exaggerating and using stuff in a way that it looks like you want it to look, no matter that it is not rly true ingame. But that Mantras have a way bigger cooldown than in the tooltip duo to insane long recharge not only a passive cd but a active recharge makes the Mesmer or Fb very vulnerable and can even be interrupted you don't think you need to count in, what is simply wrong. Anyway you don't make sense at all, you are biased in every possible direction and you change your so called "facts" the way you need it and only when it comes to your main you finally wanna talk for real and not only what is on paper and exaggerate some tooltips.

For the Greatsword autoattack, it clearly is unintended, you get a full 1 sec dodge in addition without an interrupt cd of 4 secs when canceling and you also can provoke it by making the skill simply not hit (means you don't even need to stow). I would be on your side when the skill can be canceled and you get like a very very short evade frame (0,1 secs something like old Blurred Frenzy) for the cost of 4 secs interrupt cd. Means you have to decide as a Mesmer if you wanna get 0.1 sec evade on 4 secs cd or 2,5 secs full Blurred duration incl. dmg application on a normal cd or if you as Ranger want to have a full 1 sec dodge during a normal autoattack chain + dmg application or if you want to have a 0.1 secs evade frame on 4 secs interrupt cd +another 1 secs dodge before chain restarts.

Means i don't agree to @Tyga.7056 that it should not be possible at all to stow evade-skills as long as it has some opportunity costs, then it adds skill ceiling, then Shadowpass would be right, i think there would be no problem when you could do the same with Ranger Greatsword autoattack than with old Blurred. When you cancel it, it gives a clearly shorter evade frame but goes on interrrupt cd. There was and still is no need to delete this option for Blurred or Ranger autoattack in general and in that case clearly killed some skill ceiling.

But atm Ranger Greatsword gives 2 full seconds evade without any interrupt cd (when you just not hit the skill) or with only 0,3 secs when you stow cancel it. That is not skillful that is just a no cost advantage clearly not intended and also not fair. Simply because it is a 3. chainskill makes it impossible to only add the normal stow-cancel interrupt cd to it. Because then it would mean that Rangers don't have any autoattack for the whole interrupt cd duration and these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling the skill for a 0,1 sec evade frame most of the time i guess. Or would you prefer it that way Shadowpass? I guess not. That brings us back to @Tyga.7056 suggestion to make the autoattack chain restart when canceling or not hit the 3. skill.

I like how Anet removes all class specific buff request threads but never the nerf complain threads from PvP subforum :joy:

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@warherox.7943 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yeah it's sad that at 2000 range and with skills like rapid fire and the soulbeast modifiers that they didn't nerf all the lb's dps across all its skill as it should be :) lb given its range and the safety it puts ranger in hits way to hard. Theres some great rangers out there that can fight great but the way ranger is now due to it's crazy ranged dps it promotes sitting back and just pew pew pew pew pew pew pew lol resulting in players being carried which is unhealthy for the game. Like alot of things are in this game lol.

Just remove the projectile speed increases that Longbow got.This will let players strafe to avoid arrows like we used to be able to do at launch. It's a great mechanic in GW1 and should have been kept here.

You mean make it so that 90% of our projectiles miss for no reason other than the fact that someone is spamming adadadadad?

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@"bravan.3876"

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.

  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this post. Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in detail exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like..."No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."

  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it can insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.

  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."

  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.

  3. Do me a favor and try to only use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.

  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have any staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yeah it's sad that at 2000 range and with skills like rapid fire and the soulbeast modifiers that they didn't nerf all the lb's dps across all its skill as it should be :) lb given its range and the safety it puts ranger in hits way to hard. Theres some great rangers out there that can fight great but the way ranger is now due to it's crazy ranged dps it promotes sitting back and just pew pew pew pew pew pew pew lol resulting in players being carried which is unhealthy for the game. Like alot of things are in this game lol.

Just remove the projectile speed increases that Longbow got.This will let players strafe to avoid arrows like we used to be able to do at launch. It's a great mechanic in GW1 and should have been kept here.

You mean make it so that 90% of our projectiles miss for no reason other than the fact that someone is spamming adadadadad?

Seems fine to me.

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@warherox.7943 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yeah it's sad that at 2000 range and with skills like rapid fire and the soulbeast modifiers that they didn't nerf all the lb's dps across all its skill as it should be :) lb given its range and the safety it puts ranger in hits way to hard. Theres some great rangers out there that can fight great but the way ranger is now due to it's crazy ranged dps it promotes sitting back and just pew pew pew pew pew pew pew lol resulting in players being carried which is unhealthy for the game. Like alot of things are in this game lol.

Just remove the projectile speed increases that Longbow got.This will let players strafe to avoid arrows like we used to be able to do at launch. It's a great mechanic in GW1 and should have been kept here.

You mean make it so that 90% of our projectiles miss for no reason other than the fact that someone is spamming adadadadad?

Seems fine to me.

lol

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@shadowpass.4236 said:@"bravan.3876"

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.

  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this post. Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in detail exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like..."No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."

  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it can insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.

  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."

  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.

  3. Do me a favor and try to only use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.

  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have any staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.

I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.

I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be timed pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (even though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

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@bravan.3876 said:

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.
  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this
    . Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in
    detail
    exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...
    "No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."
  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it
    can
    insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.
  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."
  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.
  3. Do me a favor and try to
    only
    use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.
  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have
    any
    staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
  1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.
  2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

  1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.Here. I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.
  2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.
  3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.
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@shadowpass.4236 said:

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.
  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this
    . Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in
    detail
    exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...
    "No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."
  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it
    can
    insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.
  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."
  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.
  3. Do me a favor and try to
    only
    use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.
  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have
    any
    staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
  1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.
  2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

  1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.
    I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.
  2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.
  3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.

Just check every of your comments i quoted in my answer. And one example i already gave here. On paper the pure cd on tooltip is 10 secs, the reality is, that you have a 2,25 sec recharge in addition (what is way more than the usual under 1 sec cast or even channelskills which already recharging during they are still running for an in fact lower cd then in the tooltip) and the recharge is not a passive cd it is an active cast can be interrupted so the Fb or Mesmer has to invest other cds or need to disengage and time the recharge to good moment (means even more cds before you can start recharging). These are additional cd costs, and these are the reasons for the kinda low cds writen on tooltip and that is justified. Some stuff where you changed argumentations also happened after i stopped writing in that thread (like when you finally admit that you had to outplay Vallun heavily to not die fast, even with chaosline carry. Sry i am too lazy and too busy to search all your comments where you even counter your own arguments depending on how you need it that moment. Unlogic also your claim that EU ppl are just too bad to play a build you call very easy to play. Unlogic also that you can find wall of text arguments on how to counter Condithief when it clearly is at least as hard to counter as a chaosline oneshot Mesmer spamming stealth for days.

It is about the 2 sec evade spam for no costs what is not balanced, doesn't add skill ceiling (even lower it). It doesn't matter that the Ranger still cannot facetank on point forever with that or that ppl can avoid a hit from autoattacks. 2 secs evade was clearly not intended and is not balanced. If it wouldn't prevent all autoattacks for 4 secs i would say just add an interrupt cd (and lower evade frame to 0,1 secs when canceled) and make it restart the chain when 3. skill doesn't hit anything but these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling then. I get the frusttration because we were allowed to use it for 7 years but in the end it is a right move to fix it. We can argue about the way they fixed it (just restart chain like Tyga suggested would be better i think).

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@bravan.3876 said:

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.
  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this
    . Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in
    detail
    exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...
    "No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."
  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it
    can
    insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.
  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."
  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.
  3. Do me a favor and try to
    only
    use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.
  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have
    any
    staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
  1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.
  2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

  1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.
    I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.
  2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.
  3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.
  1. Just check every of your comments i quoted in my answer. And one example i already gave here. On paper the pure cd on tooltip is 10 secs, the reality is, that you have a 2,25 sec recharge in addition (what is way more than the usual under 1 sec cast or even channelskills which already recharging during they are still running for an in fact lower cd then in the tooltip) and the recharge is not a passive cd it is an active cast can be interrupted so the Fb or Mesmer has to invest other cds or need to disengage and time the recharge to good moment (means even more cds before you can start recharging). These are additional cd costs, and these are the reasons for the kinda low cds writen on tooltip and that is justified. Some stuff where you changed argumentations also happened after i stopped writing in that thread (like when you finally admit that you had to outplay Vallun heavily to not die fast, even with chaosline carry. Sry i am too lazy and too busy to search all your comments where you even counter your own arguments depending on how you need it that moment. Unlogic also your claim that EU ppl are just too bad to play a build you call very easy to play. Unlogic also that you can find wall of text arguments on how to counter Condithief when it clearly is at least as hard to counter as a chaosline oneshot Mesmer spamming stealth for days.
  2. It is about the 2 sec evade spam for no costs what is not balanced, doesn't add skill ceiling (even lower it). It doesn't matter that the Ranger still cannot facetank on point forever with that or that ppl can avoid a hit from autoattacks. 2 secs evade was clearly not intended and is not balanced. If it wouldn't prevent all autoattacks for 4 secs i would say just add an interrupt cd (and lower evade frame to 0,1 secs when canceled) and make it restart the chain when 3. skill doesn't hit anything but these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling then. I get the frusttration because we were allowed to use it for 7 years but in the end it is a right move to fix it. We can argue about the way they fixed it (just restart chain like Tyga suggested would be better i think).
  1. Sorry I'm not going to comb through the 7 pages in that thread. If you have any specific examples, feel free to link them. The cooldown for the skill is 10 seconds, everyone knows there is a 2.25 channel time and a 1s cooldown between charge uses. So, what would you like people to say? That Mantra of Recovery has a 14.25s cooldown? Like... that's so redundant. The fact that you and a few other people were bringing that up as if it were a valid defense just looks like you're reaching for an argument.
  2. Greatsword ranger can barely stand on point against any of the current meta classes. Further reducing that ability will lower our viability dramatically. I disagree with your statement that "fixing it" is the right move.
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@shadowpass.4236 said:

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.
  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this
    . Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in
    detail
    exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...
    "No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."
  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it
    can
    insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.
  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."
  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.
  3. Do me a favor and try to
    only
    use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.
  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have
    any
    staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
  1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.
  2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

  1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.
    I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.
  2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.
  3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.
  1. Just check every of your comments i quoted in my answer. And one example i already gave here. On paper the pure cd on tooltip is 10 secs, the reality is, that you have a 2,25 sec recharge in addition (what is way more than the usual under 1 sec cast or even channelskills which already recharging during they are still running for an in fact lower cd then in the tooltip) and the recharge is not a passive cd it is an active cast can be interrupted so the Fb or Mesmer has to invest other cds or need to disengage and time the recharge to good moment (means even more cds before you can start recharging). These are additional cd costs, and these are the reasons for the kinda low cds writen on tooltip and that is justified. Some stuff where you changed argumentations also happened after i stopped writing in that thread (like when you finally admit that you had to outplay Vallun heavily to not die fast, even with chaosline carry. Sry i am too lazy and too busy to search all your comments where you even counter your own arguments depending on how you need it that moment. Unlogic also your claim that EU ppl are just too bad to play a build you call very easy to play. Unlogic also that you can find wall of text arguments on how to counter Condithief when it clearly is at least as hard to counter as a chaosline oneshot Mesmer spamming stealth for days.
  2. It is about the 2 sec evade spam for no costs what is not balanced, doesn't add skill ceiling (even lower it). It doesn't matter that the Ranger still cannot facetank on point forever with that or that ppl can avoid a hit from autoattacks. 2 secs evade was clearly not intended and is not balanced. If it wouldn't prevent all autoattacks for 4 secs i would say just add an interrupt cd (and lower evade frame to 0,1 secs when canceled) and make it restart the chain when 3. skill doesn't hit anything but these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling then. I get the frusttration because we were allowed to use it for 7 years but in the end it is a right move to fix it. We can argue about the way they fixed it (just restart chain like Tyga suggested would be better i think).
  1. Sorry I'm not going to comb through the 7 pages in that thread. If you have any specific examples, feel free to link them. The cooldown for the skill is 10 seconds, everyone knows there is a 2.25 channel time and a 1s cooldown between charge uses. So, what would you like people to say? That Mantra of Recovery has a 14.25s cooldown? Like... that's so redundant. The fact that you and a few other people were bringing that up as if it were a valid defense just looks like you're reaching for an argument.
  2. Greatsword ranger can barely stand on point against any of the current meta classes. Further reducing that ability will lower our viability dramatically. I disagree with your statement that "fixing it" is the right move.
  1. But you expect me to go through 7 pages even tho i argued with you about that already in the thread and you only need to rewatch my quotes from your comments? Yeah no. I also even gave you more than one example here already. Only saying Healmantra has 10 secs cd is exxaggerating just the way to say Ranger 3. autoattack chain skill has no cd (on tooltip is has no cd so yeah right). On paper both is correct, in fact both is wrong. The reason why Mantra recharge cds are lower are based in the recharge mechanic what is the base mechanic from Mantras, you need to count them into your arguemnts to make it realistic and not just exxaggerating to make stuff look op by exaggerating tooltips, that is Jawgeous ranting lvl and nothing i can take serious.
  2. As said that has nothing to do with a 2 secs evade for no costs is unintended and doesn't add any higher skill ceiling and is not balanced.
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@"Tayga.3192" said:Power Stab was an exploit in Anet's eyes, and they bugfixed it.

Then it would have said "Bug Fix" or "fix unintended behavior". It's a skill change, nothing more. If they were adressing this as a bug, they would (or should) have done something about how autoattacks flip when stowing your weapon. The trick you can do with it is a result of that, not because it has an evade on it.

You're advertising this being "a bug" to make it fit your agenda. Anet has never called it a bug. Stop calling it a bug fix until they explicitly say that's the reasoning.

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@bravan.3876 said:

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.
  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this
    . Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in
    detail
    exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...
    "No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."
  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it
    can
    insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.
  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."
  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.
  3. Do me a favor and try to
    only
    use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.
  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have
    any
    staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
  1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.
  2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

  1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.
    I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.
  2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.
  3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.
  1. Just check every of your comments i quoted in my answer. And one example i already gave here. On paper the pure cd on tooltip is 10 secs, the reality is, that you have a 2,25 sec recharge in addition (what is way more than the usual under 1 sec cast or even channelskills which already recharging during they are still running for an in fact lower cd then in the tooltip) and the recharge is not a passive cd it is an active cast can be interrupted so the Fb or Mesmer has to invest other cds or need to disengage and time the recharge to good moment (means even more cds before you can start recharging). These are additional cd costs, and these are the reasons for the kinda low cds writen on tooltip and that is justified. Some stuff where you changed argumentations also happened after i stopped writing in that thread (like when you finally admit that you had to outplay Vallun heavily to not die fast, even with chaosline carry. Sry i am too lazy and too busy to search all your comments where you even counter your own arguments depending on how you need it that moment. Unlogic also your claim that EU ppl are just too bad to play a build you call very easy to play. Unlogic also that you can find wall of text arguments on how to counter Condithief when it clearly is at least as hard to counter as a chaosline oneshot Mesmer spamming stealth for days.
  2. It is about the 2 sec evade spam for no costs what is not balanced, doesn't add skill ceiling (even lower it). It doesn't matter that the Ranger still cannot facetank on point forever with that or that ppl can avoid a hit from autoattacks. 2 secs evade was clearly not intended and is not balanced. If it wouldn't prevent all autoattacks for 4 secs i would say just add an interrupt cd (and lower evade frame to 0,1 secs when canceled) and make it restart the chain when 3. skill doesn't hit anything but these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling then. I get the frusttration because we were allowed to use it for 7 years but in the end it is a right move to fix it. We can argue about the way they fixed it (just restart chain like Tyga suggested would be better i think).
  1. Sorry I'm not going to comb through the 7 pages in that thread. If you have any specific examples, feel free to link them. The cooldown for the skill is 10 seconds, everyone knows there is a 2.25 channel time and a 1s cooldown between charge uses. So, what would you like people to say? That Mantra of Recovery has a 14.25s cooldown? Like... that's so redundant. The fact that you and a few other people were bringing that up as if it were a valid defense just looks like you're reaching for an argument.
  2. Greatsword ranger can barely stand on point against any of the current meta classes. Further reducing that ability will lower our viability dramatically. I disagree with your statement that "fixing it" is the right move.
  1. But you expect me to go through 7 pages even tho i argued with you about that already in the thread and you only need to rewatch my quotes from your comments? Yeah no. I also even gave you more than one example here already. Only saying Healmantra has 10 secs cd is exxaggerating just the way to say Ranger 3. autoattack chain skill has no cd (on tooltip is has no cd so yeah right). On paper both is correct, in fact both is wrong. The reason why Mantra recharge cds are lower are based in the recharge mechanic what is the base mechanic from Mantras, you need to count them into your arguemnts to make it realistic and not just exxaggerating to make stuff look op by exaggerating tooltips, that is Jawgeous ranting lvl and nothing i can take serious.
  2. As said that has nothing to do with a 2 secs evade for no costs is unintended and doesn't add any higher skill ceiling and is not balanced.
  1. If you want me to read it, then link me the comments you want me to look at. Otherwise, drop the topic. I disagree with your statements so prove me wrong.
  2. I disagree.
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@"apharma.3741" said:Power stab is a 1s evade and has no cool down.I can't believe people are defending this :joy:

Tied to an autochain that requires you to autoattack your targets two times first.

Don't dumb it down to "1sec evade no cool down, lolz", it's not how it works in reality at all. And everyone knows that.

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@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:I really try to understand people on this forum. What's the point of asking to nerf xyz class powercreep and at the same time defend the powercreep of your main class? Like really? I'll write this, every single class and spec in gw2 need massive nerfs, what ranger got was just a small poke to the hand "you are a very, very bad boi" and nothing beside that. There's still a lot of thingies that need nerfs on core ranger, soulbeast and druid aswell, a lot.People somehow got used to this unbalanced kitten stuff and think that it was intented since the beginning of the game and abused it with no end, but when a-net FINALLY decides to fix that some people just go nuts and start QQ "my class is unplayable" or "xyz class was deleted". Guys? What is wrong with you? Just because something was in the game since release, it doesn't mean that very specific behaviour of abc skill/trait was intended, it could be just overlooked, after all there is a kitten load of possible interactions with each traits/skills so it was really easy to do so. I'm pretty sure that even now, some people keep finding broken interactions, even though that things were in the game since release.

Tell me, what nerfs does druid need?

As long as you can spot one in WvW or PvP, it needs nerfs. Doesn't matter what nerfs, as long as it's a nerf.

Actually, that could be their next patch note. "Spotted a Druid in sPvP. Reduced self-healing from Celestial Avatar skills by 50 %."

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.
  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this
    . Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in
    detail
    exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...
    "No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."
  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it
    can
    insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.
  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."
  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.
  3. Do me a favor and try to
    only
    use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.
  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have
    any
    staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
  1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.
  2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

  1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.
    I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.
  2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.
  3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.
  1. Just check every of your comments i quoted in my answer. And one example i already gave here. On paper the pure cd on tooltip is 10 secs, the reality is, that you have a 2,25 sec recharge in addition (what is way more than the usual under 1 sec cast or even channelskills which already recharging during they are still running for an in fact lower cd then in the tooltip) and the recharge is not a passive cd it is an active cast can be interrupted so the Fb or Mesmer has to invest other cds or need to disengage and time the recharge to good moment (means even more cds before you can start recharging). These are additional cd costs, and these are the reasons for the kinda low cds writen on tooltip and that is justified. Some stuff where you changed argumentations also happened after i stopped writing in that thread (like when you finally admit that you had to outplay Vallun heavily to not die fast, even with chaosline carry. Sry i am too lazy and too busy to search all your comments where you even counter your own arguments depending on how you need it that moment. Unlogic also your claim that EU ppl are just too bad to play a build you call very easy to play. Unlogic also that you can find wall of text arguments on how to counter Condithief when it clearly is at least as hard to counter as a chaosline oneshot Mesmer spamming stealth for days.
  2. It is about the 2 sec evade spam for no costs what is not balanced, doesn't add skill ceiling (even lower it). It doesn't matter that the Ranger still cannot facetank on point forever with that or that ppl can avoid a hit from autoattacks. 2 secs evade was clearly not intended and is not balanced. If it wouldn't prevent all autoattacks for 4 secs i would say just add an interrupt cd (and lower evade frame to 0,1 secs when canceled) and make it restart the chain when 3. skill doesn't hit anything but these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling then. I get the frusttration because we were allowed to use it for 7 years but in the end it is a right move to fix it. We can argue about the way they fixed it (just restart chain like Tyga suggested would be better i think).
  1. Sorry I'm not going to comb through the 7 pages in that thread. If you have any specific examples, feel free to link them. The cooldown for the skill is 10 seconds, everyone knows there is a 2.25 channel time and a 1s cooldown between charge uses. So, what would you like people to say? That Mantra of Recovery has a 14.25s cooldown? Like... that's so redundant. The fact that you and a few other people were bringing that up as if it were a valid defense just looks like you're reaching for an argument.
  2. Greatsword ranger can barely stand on point against any of the current meta classes. Further reducing that ability will lower our viability dramatically. I disagree with your statement that "fixing it" is the right move.
  1. But you expect me to go through 7 pages even tho i argued with you about that already in the thread and you only need to rewatch my quotes from your comments? Yeah no. I also even gave you more than one example here already. Only saying Healmantra has 10 secs cd is exxaggerating just the way to say Ranger 3. autoattack chain skill has no cd (on tooltip is has no cd so yeah right). On paper both is correct, in fact both is wrong. The reason why Mantra recharge cds are lower are based in the recharge mechanic what is the base mechanic from Mantras, you need to count them into your arguemnts to make it realistic and not just exxaggerating to make stuff look op by exaggerating tooltips, that is Jawgeous ranting lvl and nothing i can take serious.
  2. As said that has nothing to do with a 2 secs evade for no costs is unintended and doesn't add any higher skill ceiling and is not balanced.
  1. If you want me to read it, then link me the comments you want me to look at. Otherwise, drop the topic. I disagree with your statements so prove me wrong.
  2. I disagree.
  1. Lol already wrote more than one wall of text to prove you wrong by using logic, facts and based on game knowledge arguments trying to be as unbiased as possible as a multiplayer even agree to some of your points. I don't need to do it again, it is all there already black on white so to say. I have done everything i needed to do. I don't restart. You can check it or let it be, i don't care in the end.
  2. Fine for me, as said i my view you are extremely biased, immune to every good argument and even facts and proves. I am not surprised it is the same when we talk about Ranger than it was with Mesmer just the other direction. Conclusion once again: Waste of time trying to have a constructive discussion with you and just stop answering to you. I even agree to parts of your arguments but you never rly agree to anything i say. I mean one time you said you do but then just restarted with the same wrong arguments vs other ppl, so yeah that was kind of worthless to say you agree in anything with me. In fact you don't agree in a single point, that is at least how you act.
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@bravan.3876 said:

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.
  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this
    . Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in
    detail
    exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...
    "No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."
  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it
    can
    insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.
  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."
  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.
  3. Do me a favor and try to
    only
    use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.
  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have
    any
    staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
  1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.
  2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

  1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.
    I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.
  2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.
  3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.
  1. Just check every of your comments i quoted in my answer. And one example i already gave here. On paper the pure cd on tooltip is 10 secs, the reality is, that you have a 2,25 sec recharge in addition (what is way more than the usual under 1 sec cast or even channelskills which already recharging during they are still running for an in fact lower cd then in the tooltip) and the recharge is not a passive cd it is an active cast can be interrupted so the Fb or Mesmer has to invest other cds or need to disengage and time the recharge to good moment (means even more cds before you can start recharging). These are additional cd costs, and these are the reasons for the kinda low cds writen on tooltip and that is justified. Some stuff where you changed argumentations also happened after i stopped writing in that thread (like when you finally admit that you had to outplay Vallun heavily to not die fast, even with chaosline carry. Sry i am too lazy and too busy to search all your comments where you even counter your own arguments depending on how you need it that moment. Unlogic also your claim that EU ppl are just too bad to play a build you call very easy to play. Unlogic also that you can find wall of text arguments on how to counter Condithief when it clearly is at least as hard to counter as a chaosline oneshot Mesmer spamming stealth for days.
  2. It is about the 2 sec evade spam for no costs what is not balanced, doesn't add skill ceiling (even lower it). It doesn't matter that the Ranger still cannot facetank on point forever with that or that ppl can avoid a hit from autoattacks. 2 secs evade was clearly not intended and is not balanced. If it wouldn't prevent all autoattacks for 4 secs i would say just add an interrupt cd (and lower evade frame to 0,1 secs when canceled) and make it restart the chain when 3. skill doesn't hit anything but these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling then. I get the frusttration because we were allowed to use it for 7 years but in the end it is a right move to fix it. We can argue about the way they fixed it (just restart chain like Tyga suggested would be better i think).
  1. Sorry I'm not going to comb through the 7 pages in that thread. If you have any specific examples, feel free to link them. The cooldown for the skill is 10 seconds, everyone knows there is a 2.25 channel time and a 1s cooldown between charge uses. So, what would you like people to say? That Mantra of Recovery has a 14.25s cooldown? Like... that's so redundant. The fact that you and a few other people were bringing that up as if it were a valid defense just looks like you're reaching for an argument.
  2. Greatsword ranger can barely stand on point against any of the current meta classes. Further reducing that ability will lower our viability dramatically. I disagree with your statement that "fixing it" is the right move.
  1. But you expect me to go through 7 pages even tho i argued with you about that already in the thread and you only need to rewatch my quotes from your comments? Yeah no. I also even gave you more than one example here already. Only saying Healmantra has 10 secs cd is exxaggerating just the way to say Ranger 3. autoattack chain skill has no cd (on tooltip is has no cd so yeah right). On paper both is correct, in fact both is wrong. The reason why Mantra recharge cds are lower are based in the recharge mechanic what is the base mechanic from Mantras, you need to count them into your arguemnts to make it realistic and not just exxaggerating to make stuff look op by exaggerating tooltips, that is Jawgeous ranting lvl and nothing i can take serious.
  2. As said that has nothing to do with a 2 secs evade for no costs is unintended and doesn't add any higher skill ceiling and is not balanced.
  1. If you want me to read it, then link me the comments you want me to look at. Otherwise, drop the topic. I disagree with your statements so prove me wrong.
  2. I disagree.
  1. Lol already wrote more than one wall of text to prove you wrong by using logic, facts and based on game knowledge arguments trying to be as unbiased as possible as a multiplayer even agree to some of your points. I don't need to do it again, it is all there already black on white so to say. I have done everything i needed to do. I don't restart. You can check it or let it be, i don't care in the end.
  2. Fine for me, as said i my view you are extremely biased, immune to every good argument and even facts and proves. I am not surprised it is the same when we talk about Ranger than it was with Mesmer just the other direction. Conclusion once again: Waste of time trying to have a constructive discussion with you and just stop answering to you. I even agree to parts of your arguments but you never rly agree to anything i say. I mean one time you said you do but then just restarted with the same wrong arguments vs other ppl, so yeah that was kind of worthless to say you agree in anything with me. In fact you don't agree in a single point, that is at least how you act.
  1. I disagree. If you want me to admit otherwise, link me a single post where you believe you're correct so I can read it again.
  2. I'm not biased. I play every single class and I find mesmer is probably the one I have the most fun on. There are builds I'd like to see nerfed on ranger and I'd like to see several other classes (including mesmer) receive buffs. However, I have the ability recognize when something is too strong. I'm in Aerospace and Mech Engineering and my focus is heavily on design and innovation. I'm good at pinpointing which areas are the best to focus on and develop further/first, where the problem areas are, and how to approach and construct the project in a way that not only performs well, but sells well/is easy to market. I also compete(d) professionally in several other games (shooters, BRs, MOBAs, etc. etc.) I understand balance very well.
  3. If you prove me wrong, I'll admit to it. But just saying, "I'm right and you're wrong." isn't a valid argument.
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@shadowpass.4236 said:

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.
  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this
    . Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in
    detail
    exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...
    "No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."
  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it
    can
    insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.
  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."
  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.
  3. Do me a favor and try to
    only
    use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.
  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have
    any
    staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
  1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.
  2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

  1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.
    I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.
  2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.
  3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.
  1. Just check every of your comments i quoted in my answer. And one example i already gave here. On paper the pure cd on tooltip is 10 secs, the reality is, that you have a 2,25 sec recharge in addition (what is way more than the usual under 1 sec cast or even channelskills which already recharging during they are still running for an in fact lower cd then in the tooltip) and the recharge is not a passive cd it is an active cast can be interrupted so the Fb or Mesmer has to invest other cds or need to disengage and time the recharge to good moment (means even more cds before you can start recharging). These are additional cd costs, and these are the reasons for the kinda low cds writen on tooltip and that is justified. Some stuff where you changed argumentations also happened after i stopped writing in that thread (like when you finally admit that you had to outplay Vallun heavily to not die fast, even with chaosline carry. Sry i am too lazy and too busy to search all your comments where you even counter your own arguments depending on how you need it that moment. Unlogic also your claim that EU ppl are just too bad to play a build you call very easy to play. Unlogic also that you can find wall of text arguments on how to counter Condithief when it clearly is at least as hard to counter as a chaosline oneshot Mesmer spamming stealth for days.
  2. It is about the 2 sec evade spam for no costs what is not balanced, doesn't add skill ceiling (even lower it). It doesn't matter that the Ranger still cannot facetank on point forever with that or that ppl can avoid a hit from autoattacks. 2 secs evade was clearly not intended and is not balanced. If it wouldn't prevent all autoattacks for 4 secs i would say just add an interrupt cd (and lower evade frame to 0,1 secs when canceled) and make it restart the chain when 3. skill doesn't hit anything but these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling then. I get the frusttration because we were allowed to use it for 7 years but in the end it is a right move to fix it. We can argue about the way they fixed it (just restart chain like Tyga suggested would be better i think).
  1. Sorry I'm not going to comb through the 7 pages in that thread. If you have any specific examples, feel free to link them. The cooldown for the skill is 10 seconds, everyone knows there is a 2.25 channel time and a 1s cooldown between charge uses. So, what would you like people to say? That Mantra of Recovery has a 14.25s cooldown? Like... that's so redundant. The fact that you and a few other people were bringing that up as if it were a valid defense just looks like you're reaching for an argument.
  2. Greatsword ranger can barely stand on point against any of the current meta classes. Further reducing that ability will lower our viability dramatically. I disagree with your statement that "fixing it" is the right move.
  1. But you expect me to go through 7 pages even tho i argued with you about that already in the thread and you only need to rewatch my quotes from your comments? Yeah no. I also even gave you more than one example here already. Only saying Healmantra has 10 secs cd is exxaggerating just the way to say Ranger 3. autoattack chain skill has no cd (on tooltip is has no cd so yeah right). On paper both is correct, in fact both is wrong. The reason why Mantra recharge cds are lower are based in the recharge mechanic what is the base mechanic from Mantras, you need to count them into your arguemnts to make it realistic and not just exxaggerating to make stuff look op by exaggerating tooltips, that is Jawgeous ranting lvl and nothing i can take serious.
  2. As said that has nothing to do with a 2 secs evade for no costs is unintended and doesn't add any higher skill ceiling and is not balanced.
  1. If you want me to read it, then link me the comments you want me to look at. Otherwise, drop the topic. I disagree with your statements so prove me wrong.
  2. I disagree.
  1. Lol already wrote more than one wall of text to prove you wrong by using logic, facts and based on game knowledge arguments trying to be as unbiased as possible as a multiplayer even agree to some of your points. I don't need to do it again, it is all there already black on white so to say. I have done everything i needed to do. I don't restart. You can check it or let it be, i don't care in the end.
  2. Fine for me, as said i my view you are extremely biased, immune to every good argument and even facts and proves. I am not surprised it is the same when we talk about Ranger than it was with Mesmer just the other direction. Conclusion once again: Waste of time trying to have a constructive discussion with you and just stop answering to you. I even agree to parts of your arguments but you never rly agree to anything i say. I mean one time you said you do but then just restarted with the same wrong arguments vs other ppl, so yeah that was kind of worthless to say you agree in anything with me. In fact you don't agree in a single point, that is at least how you act.
  1. I disagree. If you want me to admit otherwise, link me a
    single
    post where you believe you're correct so I can read it again.
  2. I'm not biased. I play every single class and I find mesmer is probably the one I have the most fun on. There are builds I'd like to see nerfed on ranger and I'd like to see several other classes (including mesmer) receive buffs. However, I have the ability recognize when something is too strong. I'm in Aerospace and Mech Engineering and my focus is heavily on design and innovation. I'm good at pinpointing which areas are the best to focus on and develop further/first, where the problem areas are, and how to approach and construct the project in a way that not only performs well, but sells well/is easy to market. I also compete(d) professionally in several other games (shooters, BRs, MOBAs, etc. etc.) I understand balance very well.
  3. If you prove me wrong, I'll admit to it. But just saying, "I'm right and you're wrong." isn't a valid argument.

As said it is all there if you feel better by not rewatching stuff when i already told you where to look than it is your lazyness and not my problem. I mean i even gave you a pretty good summerary here in this thread, should already be enough.

We disagree about you being biased or not. Also fine for me.

@Abyssisis.3971 said:7 years, 0 complains, even after it was buffed once for 10% increase damage and a second time for 80% additional damage. Yet, it’s OPed, but only after anet releases these future “balance” changes, clearly this is a placebo effect...

I and probably a lot of other ppl were always fully aware of that issue and not a fanboy of it. That GS Ranger was not overperforming because of it as a whole doesn't change the fact that 2 secs evade on an autoattack skill without any interrupt cd costs never was intended and also is not balanced or add any skill ceiling.

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@bravan.3876 said:

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.
  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this
    . Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in
    detail
    exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...
    "No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."
  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it
    can
    insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.
  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."
  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.
  3. Do me a favor and try to
    only
    use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.
  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have
    any
    staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
  1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.
  2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

  1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.
    I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.
  2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.
  3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.
  1. Just check every of your comments i quoted in my answer. And one example i already gave here. On paper the pure cd on tooltip is 10 secs, the reality is, that you have a 2,25 sec recharge in addition (what is way more than the usual under 1 sec cast or even channelskills which already recharging during they are still running for an in fact lower cd then in the tooltip) and the recharge is not a passive cd it is an active cast can be interrupted so the Fb or Mesmer has to invest other cds or need to disengage and time the recharge to good moment (means even more cds before you can start recharging). These are additional cd costs, and these are the reasons for the kinda low cds writen on tooltip and that is justified. Some stuff where you changed argumentations also happened after i stopped writing in that thread (like when you finally admit that you had to outplay Vallun heavily to not die fast, even with chaosline carry. Sry i am too lazy and too busy to search all your comments where you even counter your own arguments depending on how you need it that moment. Unlogic also your claim that EU ppl are just too bad to play a build you call very easy to play. Unlogic also that you can find wall of text arguments on how to counter Condithief when it clearly is at least as hard to counter as a chaosline oneshot Mesmer spamming stealth for days.
  2. It is about the 2 sec evade spam for no costs what is not balanced, doesn't add skill ceiling (even lower it). It doesn't matter that the Ranger still cannot facetank on point forever with that or that ppl can avoid a hit from autoattacks. 2 secs evade was clearly not intended and is not balanced. If it wouldn't prevent all autoattacks for 4 secs i would say just add an interrupt cd (and lower evade frame to 0,1 secs when canceled) and make it restart the chain when 3. skill doesn't hit anything but these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling then. I get the frusttration because we were allowed to use it for 7 years but in the end it is a right move to fix it. We can argue about the way they fixed it (just restart chain like Tyga suggested would be better i think).
  1. Sorry I'm not going to comb through the 7 pages in that thread. If you have any specific examples, feel free to link them. The cooldown for the skill is 10 seconds, everyone knows there is a 2.25 channel time and a 1s cooldown between charge uses. So, what would you like people to say? That Mantra of Recovery has a 14.25s cooldown? Like... that's so redundant. The fact that you and a few other people were bringing that up as if it were a valid defense just looks like you're reaching for an argument.
  2. Greatsword ranger can barely stand on point against any of the current meta classes. Further reducing that ability will lower our viability dramatically. I disagree with your statement that "fixing it" is the right move.
  1. But you expect me to go through 7 pages even tho i argued with you about that already in the thread and you only need to rewatch my quotes from your comments? Yeah no. I also even gave you more than one example here already. Only saying Healmantra has 10 secs cd is exxaggerating just the way to say Ranger 3. autoattack chain skill has no cd (on tooltip is has no cd so yeah right). On paper both is correct, in fact both is wrong. The reason why Mantra recharge cds are lower are based in the recharge mechanic what is the base mechanic from Mantras, you need to count them into your arguemnts to make it realistic and not just exxaggerating to make stuff look op by exaggerating tooltips, that is Jawgeous ranting lvl and nothing i can take serious.
  2. As said that has nothing to do with a 2 secs evade for no costs is unintended and doesn't add any higher skill ceiling and is not balanced.
  1. If you want me to read it, then link me the comments you want me to look at. Otherwise, drop the topic. I disagree with your statements so prove me wrong.
  2. I disagree.
  1. Lol already wrote more than one wall of text to prove you wrong by using logic, facts and based on game knowledge arguments trying to be as unbiased as possible as a multiplayer even agree to some of your points. I don't need to do it again, it is all there already black on white so to say. I have done everything i needed to do. I don't restart. You can check it or let it be, i don't care in the end.
  2. Fine for me, as said i my view you are extremely biased, immune to every good argument and even facts and proves. I am not surprised it is the same when we talk about Ranger than it was with Mesmer just the other direction. Conclusion once again: Waste of time trying to have a constructive discussion with you and just stop answering to you. I even agree to parts of your arguments but you never rly agree to anything i say. I mean one time you said you do but then just restarted with the same wrong arguments vs other ppl, so yeah that was kind of worthless to say you agree in anything with me. In fact you don't agree in a single point, that is at least how you act.
  1. I disagree. If you want me to admit otherwise, link me a
    single
    post where you believe you're correct so I can read it again.
  2. I'm not biased. I play every single class and I find mesmer is probably the one I have the most fun on. There are builds I'd like to see nerfed on ranger and I'd like to see several other classes (including mesmer) receive buffs. However, I have the ability recognize when something is too strong. I'm in Aerospace and Mech Engineering and my focus is heavily on design and innovation. I'm good at pinpointing which areas are the best to focus on and develop further/first, where the problem areas are, and how to approach and construct the project in a way that not only performs well, but sells well/is easy to market. I also compete(d) professionally in several other games (shooters, BRs, MOBAs, etc. etc.) I understand balance very well.
  3. If you prove me wrong, I'll admit to it. But just saying, "I'm right and you're wrong." isn't a valid argument.

1 As said it is all there if you feel better by not rewatching stuff when i already told you where to look than it is your lazyness and not my problem. We disagree about you being biased or not. Also fine for me.

@"Abyssisis.3971" said:7 years, 0 complains, even after it was buffed once for 10% increase damage and a second time for 80% additional damage. Yet, it’s OPed, but only after anet releases these future “balance” changes, clearly this is a placebo effect...
  1. I and probably a lot of other ppl were always fully aware of that issue and not a fanboy of it. That GS Ranger was not overperforming because of it as a whole doesn't change the fact that 2 secs evade on an autoattack skill without any interrupt cd costs never was intended and also is not balanced or add any skill ceiling.
  1. Don't call me lazy when you literally said, "Sry i am too lazy" when I asked you to link me a single post you think you proved me wrong in.Just saying, "You're biased." doesn't make me biased. It's an attempt to discredit me because you can't/refuse to prove me wrong.
  2. If it wasn't over/underperforming, that means that the weapon is balanced and should be left alone.Since you clearly don't know the definition of the term Skill Ceiling:
    A skill ceiling is the level of skill required to use a hero to their maximum potential.
    In other words, learning how to use the GS auto evades skillfully was necessary in order to reach the weapon's maximum potential. You're wrong here.
  1. Stop this bulls... pls. I already wasted more than enough time and wrote more than one wall of text explaining very well why you are wrong with a lot of things. I am too lazy because i already did it. It is all there, check it yourself. I even gave you a good summary here already. I did more than enough. It is your turn. Or just let it be i don't care.
  2. No it doesn't mean the weapon itself was balanced, 2 sec evade on an autoattackskill withotu any interrupt cd cost, i mean seriously how can you even defend that. Logic at it's best.
  3. I know the definition and i made a further distinction to it because needed in this case. Like the only part it add some more skill ceiling was the need of knowing about it. The moment you know about it it lowers the skill ceiling in the gameplay part itself. Simple.
  1. Then link it. :joy:
  2. "GS Ranger was not overperforming... also is not balanced." Okay way to contradict yourself. You can't say GS ranger isn't too strong but the weapon is.
  3. Well, thanks to me, now you know the definition of it. You clearly didn't know it before if you said that learning how to use the GS evades effectively does not increase the skill ceiling.

Anyways maybe you don't make as much sense as I thought you did. Telling me to not run Chaos to prove that Mantras are too strong on their own was pretty illogical. Oh well.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.
  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this
    . Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in
    detail
    exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...
    "No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."
  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it
    can
    insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.
  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."
  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.
  3. Do me a favor and try to
    only
    use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.
  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have
    any
    staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
  1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.
  2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

  1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.
    I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.
  2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.
  3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.
  1. Just check every of your comments i quoted in my answer. And one example i already gave here. On paper the pure cd on tooltip is 10 secs, the reality is, that you have a 2,25 sec recharge in addition (what is way more than the usual under 1 sec cast or even channelskills which already recharging during they are still running for an in fact lower cd then in the tooltip) and the recharge is not a passive cd it is an active cast can be interrupted so the Fb or Mesmer has to invest other cds or need to disengage and time the recharge to good moment (means even more cds before you can start recharging). These are additional cd costs, and these are the reasons for the kinda low cds writen on tooltip and that is justified. Some stuff where you changed argumentations also happened after i stopped writing in that thread (like when you finally admit that you had to outplay Vallun heavily to not die fast, even with chaosline carry. Sry i am too lazy and too busy to search all your comments where you even counter your own arguments depending on how you need it that moment. Unlogic also your claim that EU ppl are just too bad to play a build you call very easy to play. Unlogic also that you can find wall of text arguments on how to counter Condithief when it clearly is at least as hard to counter as a chaosline oneshot Mesmer spamming stealth for days.
  2. It is about the 2 sec evade spam for no costs what is not balanced, doesn't add skill ceiling (even lower it). It doesn't matter that the Ranger still cannot facetank on point forever with that or that ppl can avoid a hit from autoattacks. 2 secs evade was clearly not intended and is not balanced. If it wouldn't prevent all autoattacks for 4 secs i would say just add an interrupt cd (and lower evade frame to 0,1 secs when canceled) and make it restart the chain when 3. skill doesn't hit anything but these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling then. I get the frusttration because we were allowed to use it for 7 years but in the end it is a right move to fix it. We can argue about the way they fixed it (just restart chain like Tyga suggested would be better i think).
  1. Sorry I'm not going to comb through the 7 pages in that thread. If you have any specific examples, feel free to link them. The cooldown for the skill is 10 seconds, everyone knows there is a 2.25 channel time and a 1s cooldown between charge uses. So, what would you like people to say? That Mantra of Recovery has a 14.25s cooldown? Like... that's so redundant. The fact that you and a few other people were bringing that up as if it were a valid defense just looks like you're reaching for an argument.
  2. Greatsword ranger can barely stand on point against any of the current meta classes. Further reducing that ability will lower our viability dramatically. I disagree with your statement that "fixing it" is the right move.
  1. But you expect me to go through 7 pages even tho i argued with you about that already in the thread and you only need to rewatch my quotes from your comments? Yeah no. I also even gave you more than one example here already. Only saying Healmantra has 10 secs cd is exxaggerating just the way to say Ranger 3. autoattack chain skill has no cd (on tooltip is has no cd so yeah right). On paper both is correct, in fact both is wrong. The reason why Mantra recharge cds are lower are based in the recharge mechanic what is the base mechanic from Mantras, you need to count them into your arguemnts to make it realistic and not just exxaggerating to make stuff look op by exaggerating tooltips, that is Jawgeous ranting lvl and nothing i can take serious.
  2. As said that has nothing to do with a 2 secs evade for no costs is unintended and doesn't add any higher skill ceiling and is not balanced.
  1. If you want me to read it, then link me the comments you want me to look at. Otherwise, drop the topic. I disagree with your statements so prove me wrong.
  2. I disagree.
  1. Lol already wrote more than one wall of text to prove you wrong by using logic, facts and based on game knowledge arguments trying to be as unbiased as possible as a multiplayer even agree to some of your points. I don't need to do it again, it is all there already black on white so to say. I have done everything i needed to do. I don't restart. You can check it or let it be, i don't care in the end.
  2. Fine for me, as said i my view you are extremely biased, immune to every good argument and even facts and proves. I am not surprised it is the same when we talk about Ranger than it was with Mesmer just the other direction. Conclusion once again: Waste of time trying to have a constructive discussion with you and just stop answering to you. I even agree to parts of your arguments but you never rly agree to anything i say. I mean one time you said you do but then just restarted with the same wrong arguments vs other ppl, so yeah that was kind of worthless to say you agree in anything with me. In fact you don't agree in a single point, that is at least how you act.
  1. I disagree. If you want me to admit otherwise, link me a
    single
    post where you believe you're correct so I can read it again.
  2. I'm not biased. I play every single class and I find mesmer is probably the one I have the most fun on. There are builds I'd like to see nerfed on ranger and I'd like to see several other classes (including mesmer) receive buffs. However, I have the ability recognize when something is too strong. I'm in Aerospace and Mech Engineering and my focus is heavily on design and innovation. I'm good at pinpointing which areas are the best to focus on and develop further/first, where the problem areas are, and how to approach and construct the project in a way that not only performs well, but sells well/is easy to market. I also compete(d) professionally in several other games (shooters, BRs, MOBAs, etc. etc.) I understand balance very well.
  3. If you prove me wrong, I'll admit to it. But just saying, "I'm right and you're wrong." isn't a valid argument.

1 As said it is all there if you feel better by not rewatching stuff when i already told you where to look than it is your lazyness and not my problem. We disagree about you being biased or not. Also fine for me.

@"Abyssisis.3971" said:7 years, 0 complains, even after it was buffed once for 10% increase damage and a second time for 80% additional damage. Yet, it’s OPed, but only after anet releases these future “balance” changes, clearly this is a placebo effect...
  1. I and probably a lot of other ppl were always fully aware of that issue and not a fanboy of it. That GS Ranger was not overperforming because of it as a whole doesn't change the fact that 2 secs evade on an autoattack skill without any interrupt cd costs never was intended and also is not balanced or add any skill ceiling.
  1. Don't call me lazy when you literally said, "Sry i am too lazy" when I asked you to link me a single post you think you proved me wrong in.Just saying, "You're biased." doesn't make me biased. It's an attempt to discredit me because you can't/refuse to prove me wrong.
  2. If it wasn't over/underperforming, that means that the weapon is balanced and should be left alone.Since you clearly don't know the definition of the term Skill Ceiling:
    A skill ceiling is the level of skill required to use a hero to their maximum potential.
    In other words, learning how to use the GS auto evades skillfully was necessary in order to reach the weapon's maximum potential. You're wrong here.
  1. Stop this bulls... pls. I already wasted more than enough time and wrote more than one wall of text explaining very well why you are wrong with a lot of things. I am too lazy because i already did it. It is all there, check it yourself. I even gave you a good summary here already. I did more than enough. It is your turn. Or just let it be i don't care.
  2. No it doesn't mean the weapon itself was balanced, 2 sec evade on an autoattackskill withotu any interrupt cd cost, i mean seriously how can you even defend that. Logic at it's best.
  3. I know the definition and i made a further distinction to it because needed in this case. Like the only part it add some more skill ceiling was the need of knowing about it. The moment you know about it it lowers the skill ceiling in the gameplay part itself. Simple.
  1. Then link it. :joy:
  2. "GS Ranger was not overperforming... also is not balanced." Okay way to contradict yourself. You can't say GS ranger isn't too strong but the weapon is.
  3. Well, thanks to me, now you know the definition of it. You clearly didn't know it before if you said that learning how to use the GS evades effectively does not increase the skill ceiling.

Anyways maybe you don't make as much sense as I thought you did. Telling me to not run Chaos to prove that Mantras are too strong on their own was pretty illogical. Oh well.
  1. Again: im not going through 7 sides of the thread because you already forgot everything i wrote. It is not my responsibility. If you forgot then re-read it yourself.
  2. A build has a lot of different parts working together. There can be one Part overperforming during it get compensated by other Parts underperforming. Just like a build that is op is not op because of everyhting it uses, there are specific things make it op and you always should balance the root problem. Also there can be broken mechanics, they can result into op stuff or not but even when not they are unhealthy. 2 sec evade spam on an autoattack skill without any cost from an interrupt cd is such thing. A 2 sec evade was not intended and is not balance nor does it add any skill ceiling in the gameplay part. It is simple no cost evade spam every ape can do. Simple because it is a pure defensive mechanic get abuse makes it not overly problematic. Still it should get fixed.
  3. Where we are at Chaosline Mesmer again. Your Core build is overperforming only because of Chaosline in the first place (added by only Mantra of Pain as secondary carry mechanic and has nothing to do at all with any other Mantra). You can play only PU core without any Mantra (or at least only with Mantra of Pain) and the result would be the same. During a Mantra Mesmer/ Mirage without stealthspam for days and without broken passsive sustain from a defensive line is not any issue to counter and to get killed, except for the braindead Mantra of Pain spam what will not rly kill any of the high sustain bruiser builds by its own. Go find my comments where i explained very detailed why the clips with Vallun you were showing don't prove anything about the brustcombo being uncounterable. The 2 times Vallun died were because he played bad. Go back to my post where i explained why your screens don't prove anything. or where i explained how many counters Mantra of Distraction has during you claim it has not a single one or the post where i tell you how you need to analyze Mantras cds as a whole with the recharge included. Just rewatch all my posts i quoted you. You can click on your notification symbol in above right corner of this forum page to do that. Or watch the summary i gave you in this thread, i mentioned a lot here already.
  4. I now rly will stop to answer to you before i get too triggered and say something i need to feel sry for later.
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@bravan.3876 said:

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.
  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this
    . Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in
    detail
    exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...
    "No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."
  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it
    can
    insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.
  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."
  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.
  3. Do me a favor and try to
    only
    use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.
  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have
    any
    staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
  1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.
  2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

  1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.
    I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.
  2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.
  3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.
  1. Just check every of your comments i quoted in my answer. And one example i already gave here. On paper the pure cd on tooltip is 10 secs, the reality is, that you have a 2,25 sec recharge in addition (what is way more than the usual under 1 sec cast or even channelskills which already recharging during they are still running for an in fact lower cd then in the tooltip) and the recharge is not a passive cd it is an active cast can be interrupted so the Fb or Mesmer has to invest other cds or need to disengage and time the recharge to good moment (means even more cds before you can start recharging). These are additional cd costs, and these are the reasons for the kinda low cds writen on tooltip and that is justified. Some stuff where you changed argumentations also happened after i stopped writing in that thread (like when you finally admit that you had to outplay Vallun heavily to not die fast, even with chaosline carry. Sry i am too lazy and too busy to search all your comments where you even counter your own arguments depending on how you need it that moment. Unlogic also your claim that EU ppl are just too bad to play a build you call very easy to play. Unlogic also that you can find wall of text arguments on how to counter Condithief when it clearly is at least as hard to counter as a chaosline oneshot Mesmer spamming stealth for days.
  2. It is about the 2 sec evade spam for no costs what is not balanced, doesn't add skill ceiling (even lower it). It doesn't matter that the Ranger still cannot facetank on point forever with that or that ppl can avoid a hit from autoattacks. 2 secs evade was clearly not intended and is not balanced. If it wouldn't prevent all autoattacks for 4 secs i would say just add an interrupt cd (and lower evade frame to 0,1 secs when canceled) and make it restart the chain when 3. skill doesn't hit anything but these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling then. I get the frusttration because we were allowed to use it for 7 years but in the end it is a right move to fix it. We can argue about the way they fixed it (just restart chain like Tyga suggested would be better i think).
  1. Sorry I'm not going to comb through the 7 pages in that thread. If you have any specific examples, feel free to link them. The cooldown for the skill is 10 seconds, everyone knows there is a 2.25 channel time and a 1s cooldown between charge uses. So, what would you like people to say? That Mantra of Recovery has a 14.25s cooldown? Like... that's so redundant. The fact that you and a few other people were bringing that up as if it were a valid defense just looks like you're reaching for an argument.
  2. Greatsword ranger can barely stand on point against any of the current meta classes. Further reducing that ability will lower our viability dramatically. I disagree with your statement that "fixing it" is the right move.
  1. But you expect me to go through 7 pages even tho i argued with you about that already in the thread and you only need to rewatch my quotes from your comments? Yeah no. I also even gave you more than one example here already. Only saying Healmantra has 10 secs cd is exxaggerating just the way to say Ranger 3. autoattack chain skill has no cd (on tooltip is has no cd so yeah right). On paper both is correct, in fact both is wrong. The reason why Mantra recharge cds are lower are based in the recharge mechanic what is the base mechanic from Mantras, you need to count them into your arguemnts to make it realistic and not just exxaggerating to make stuff look op by exaggerating tooltips, that is Jawgeous ranting lvl and nothing i can take serious.
  2. As said that has nothing to do with a 2 secs evade for no costs is unintended and doesn't add any higher skill ceiling and is not balanced.
  1. If you want me to read it, then link me the comments you want me to look at. Otherwise, drop the topic. I disagree with your statements so prove me wrong.
  2. I disagree.
  1. Lol already wrote more than one wall of text to prove you wrong by using logic, facts and based on game knowledge arguments trying to be as unbiased as possible as a multiplayer even agree to some of your points. I don't need to do it again, it is all there already black on white so to say. I have done everything i needed to do. I don't restart. You can check it or let it be, i don't care in the end.
  2. Fine for me, as said i my view you are extremely biased, immune to every good argument and even facts and proves. I am not surprised it is the same when we talk about Ranger than it was with Mesmer just the other direction. Conclusion once again: Waste of time trying to have a constructive discussion with you and just stop answering to you. I even agree to parts of your arguments but you never rly agree to anything i say. I mean one time you said you do but then just restarted with the same wrong arguments vs other ppl, so yeah that was kind of worthless to say you agree in anything with me. In fact you don't agree in a single point, that is at least how you act.
  1. I disagree. If you want me to admit otherwise, link me a
    single
    post where you believe you're correct so I can read it again.
  2. I'm not biased. I play every single class and I find mesmer is probably the one I have the most fun on. There are builds I'd like to see nerfed on ranger and I'd like to see several other classes (including mesmer) receive buffs. However, I have the ability recognize when something is too strong. I'm in Aerospace and Mech Engineering and my focus is heavily on design and innovation. I'm good at pinpointing which areas are the best to focus on and develop further/first, where the problem areas are, and how to approach and construct the project in a way that not only performs well, but sells well/is easy to market. I also compete(d) professionally in several other games (shooters, BRs, MOBAs, etc. etc.) I understand balance very well.
  3. If you prove me wrong, I'll admit to it. But just saying, "I'm right and you're wrong." isn't a valid argument.

1 As said it is all there if you feel better by not rewatching stuff when i already told you where to look than it is your lazyness and not my problem. We disagree about you being biased or not. Also fine for me.

@"Abyssisis.3971" said:7 years, 0 complains, even after it was buffed once for 10% increase damage and a second time for 80% additional damage. Yet, it’s OPed, but only after anet releases these future “balance” changes, clearly this is a placebo effect...
  1. I and probably a lot of other ppl were always fully aware of that issue and not a fanboy of it. That GS Ranger was not overperforming because of it as a whole doesn't change the fact that 2 secs evade on an autoattack skill without any interrupt cd costs never was intended and also is not balanced or add any skill ceiling.
  1. Don't call me lazy when you literally said, "Sry i am too lazy" when I asked you to link me a single post you think you proved me wrong in.Just saying, "You're biased." doesn't make me biased. It's an attempt to discredit me because you can't/refuse to prove me wrong.
  2. If it wasn't over/underperforming, that means that the weapon is balanced and should be left alone.Since you clearly don't know the definition of the term Skill Ceiling:
    A skill ceiling is the level of skill required to use a hero to their maximum potential.
    In other words, learning how to use the GS auto evades skillfully was necessary in order to reach the weapon's maximum potential. You're wrong here.
  1. Stop this bulls... pls. I already wasted more than enough time and wrote more than one wall of text explaining very well why you are wrong with a lot of things. I am too lazy because i already did it. It is all there, check it yourself. I even gave you a good summary here already. I did more than enough. It is your turn. Or just let it be i don't care.
  2. No it doesn't mean the weapon itself was balanced, 2 sec evade on an autoattackskill withotu any interrupt cd cost, i mean seriously how can you even defend that. Logic at it's best.
  3. I know the definition and i made a further distinction to it because needed in this case. Like the only part it add some more skill ceiling was the need of knowing about it. The moment you know about it it lowers the skill ceiling in the gameplay part itself. Simple.
  1. Then link it. :joy:
  2. "GS Ranger was not overperforming... also is not balanced." Okay way to contradict yourself. You can't say GS ranger isn't too strong but the weapon is.
  3. Well, thanks to me, now you know the definition of it. You clearly didn't know it before if you said that learning how to use the GS evades effectively does not increase the skill ceiling.

Anyways maybe you don't make as much sense as I thought you did. Telling me to not run Chaos to prove that Mantras are too strong on their own was pretty illogical. Oh well.
  1. Again: im not going through 7 sides of the thread because you already forgot everything i wrote. It is not my responsibility. If you forgot then re-read it yourself.
  2. A build has a lot of different parts working together. There can be one Part overperforming during it get compensated by other Parts underperforming. Just like a build that is op is not op because of everyhting it uses, there are specific things make it op and you always should balance the root problem. Also there can be broken mechanics, they can result into op stuff or not but even when not they are unhealthy. 2 sec evade spam on an autoattack skill without any cost from an interrupt cd is such thing. A 2 sec evade was not intended and is not balance nor does it add any skill ceiling in the gameplay part. It is simple no cost evade spam every ape can do. Simple because it is a pure defensive mechanic get abuse makes it not overly problematic. Still it should get fixed.
  3. Where we are at Chaosline Mesmer again. Your Core build is overperforming only because of Chaosline in the first place (added by only Mantra of Pain as secondary carry mechanic and has nothing to do at all with any other Mantra). You can play only PU core without any Mantra (or at least only with Mantra of Pain) and the result would be the same. During a Mantra Mesmer/ Mirage without stealthspam for days and without broken passsive sustain from a defensive line is not any issue to counter and to get killed, except for the braindead Mantra of Pain spam what will not rly kill any of the high sustain bruiser builds by its own. Go find my comments where i explained very detailed why the clips with Vallun you were showing don't prove anything about the brustcombo being uncounterable. The 2 times Vallun died were because he played bad. Go back to my post where i explained why your screens don't prove anything. or where i explained how many counters Mantra of Distraction has during you claim it has not a single one or the post where i tell you how you need to analyze Mantras cds as a whole with the recharge included. Just rewatch all my posts i quoted you. You can click on your notification symbol in above right corner of this forum page to do that. Or watch the summary i gave you in this thread, i mentioned a lot here already.
  4. I now rly will stop to answer to you before i get too triggered and say something i need to feel sry for later.
  1. As I've stated previously, I do not believe you proved me wrong. If you say otherwise, then link me a single post where you believe this to be true.Your logical fallacy is:
    - "You said that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove."So again, it's illogical and incorrect of you to assume that it's
    my
    job to constantly disprove all of the claims you're flinging around.
  2. Sure but if the build as a whole isn't overperforming, then nerfing aspects of it will cause it to underperform. And as several other people have stated, the change is
    not
    a bug fix.
  3. The issue I have with mantras is it's ability to oneshot from stealth. The Mirage variant of mantras is not only more popular, but stronger and arguably more effective. Mur plays this version in the top 10. Mirage mantras is more mobile, has more cc, and way more survivability. The screenshots, clips, and raw gameplay footage I've posted are direct proof of my claims. Again, just because you say they don't, doesn't mean anything.
  4. Bye!
  1. Holy cow you don't get it, i already made all the effort to prove you wrong, if you forgot about that and even don't read the summary i gave several times in this thread it is your problem.
  2. As said in this case it was not overly problematic because it is a pure defensive mechanic get abused here. That always will get less of complains and will cause less big issues than if you could hit a skill doing 10k dmg twice instead of one time as intended. It will not kill GS Ranger just as it didn't make it insane broken.
  3. As said you can onehsot ppl completely without Mantras used. The only Mantra makes it even easier and has a SECONDARY relation to the oneshot out of stealth for days problematic is Mantra of Pain, no other Mantra, ONLY this one. The main issue from your build is Chaosline and no, a Powermirage (using Domination; Duelling or Illusion) doesn't have more sustain than that and the sustain a Mirage has is way more active than from Chaosline. A Powermirage even with double Mantra is nothing i fear no matter on what class (except some Necrobuilds), all their moves are counterable and predictable and it can be killed without problems. Choaline PU is a different story and that is mostly caused by Chaosline. But again, just re-read the Mesmer thread, it is all writen there and at some point you even made one comment that you agree with me, right after i left the thread. In the end you didn't rly agree... i guess you only didn't have any arguments left at that point and kind of surrendered to then come back later and use the same wrong arguments vs other ppl again. Waste of time dealing with you as said. I also don't just say somethign is wrong or right, i always explain very detailed. But you seems to forget anyway, who cares. Continue with your nonsense. This is a Ranger thread, i stop talking about Mesmer now here in general.
  4. Bye!
  1. Effort =/= results. You did not prove me wrong, just because you spent time and effort and say you did... doesn't mean you actually did. For the umpteenth time, link me a post where you believe this to be true and I'll reconsider.
  2. Sorry I think your logic is faulty again. A Mirage's ability to dodge while cc'd is a pure defensive mechanic that gets abused and it is frequently complained about. The same logic applies across the board. For example, Full Counter used to be on too low of a cooldown and present-day Holosmiths have too much sustain. People are vocal about overtuned defensive mechanics. However, I have never heard anyone complaining about GS autos until the upcoming balance patch's preview was released.
  3. I think Chaos is very strong but it's not the cause for Mantras being overpowered. They are both overtuned and deserving on nerfs.Again, your logical fallacy is: Burden of Proof - "You said that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove."All of your responses to me can be summed up like this... "I'm right, you're wrong. I make sense, you don't make sense. I have arguments, you don't have arguments." without anything substantial to back up any of your claims.
  4. Bye!
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@shadowpass.4236 said:

You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.
  1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this
    . Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).
  • Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in
    detail
    exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...
    "No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."
  • It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it
    can
    insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.
  1. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."
  2. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.
  3. Do me a favor and try to
    only
    use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.
  • A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have
    any
    staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.
  1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.
  2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

  1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.
    I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.
  2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.
  3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.
  1. Just check every of your comments i quoted in my answer. And one example i already gave here. On paper the pure cd on tooltip is 10 secs, the reality is, that you have a 2,25 sec recharge in addition (what is way more than the usual under 1 sec cast or even channelskills which already recharging during they are still running for an in fact lower cd then in the tooltip) and the recharge is not a passive cd it is an active cast can be interrupted so the Fb or Mesmer has to invest other cds or need to disengage and time the recharge to good moment (means even more cds before you can start recharging). These are additional cd costs, and these are the reasons for the kinda low cds writen on tooltip and that is justified. Some stuff where you changed argumentations also happened after i stopped writing in that thread (like when you finally admit that you had to outplay Vallun heavily to not die fast, even with chaosline carry. Sry i am too lazy and too busy to search all your comments where you even counter your own arguments depending on how you need it that moment. Unlogic also your claim that EU ppl are just too bad to play a build you call very easy to play. Unlogic also that you can find wall of text arguments on how to counter Condithief when it clearly is at least as hard to counter as a chaosline oneshot Mesmer spamming stealth for days.
  2. It is about the 2 sec evade spam for no costs what is not balanced, doesn't add skill ceiling (even lower it). It doesn't matter that the Ranger still cannot facetank on point forever with that or that ppl can avoid a hit from autoattacks. 2 secs evade was clearly not intended and is not balanced. If it wouldn't prevent all autoattacks for 4 secs i would say just add an interrupt cd (and lower evade frame to 0,1 secs when canceled) and make it restart the chain when 3. skill doesn't hit anything but these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling then. I get the frusttration because we were allowed to use it for 7 years but in the end it is a right move to fix it. We can argue about the way they fixed it (just restart chain like Tyga suggested would be better i think).
  1. Sorry I'm not going to comb through the 7 pages in that thread. If you have any specific examples, feel free to link them. The cooldown for the skill is 10 seconds, everyone knows there is a 2.25 channel time and a 1s cooldown between charge uses. So, what would you like people to say? That Mantra of Recovery has a 14.25s cooldown? Like... that's so redundant. The fact that you and a few other people were bringing that up as if it were a valid defense just looks like you're reaching for an argument.
  2. Greatsword ranger can barely stand on point against any of the current meta classes. Further reducing that ability will lower our viability dramatically. I disagree with your statement that "fixing it" is the right move.
  1. But you expect me to go through 7 pages even tho i argued with you about that already in the thread and you only need to rewatch my quotes from your comments? Yeah no. I also even gave you more than one example here already. Only saying Healmantra has 10 secs cd is exxaggerating just the way to say Ranger 3. autoattack chain skill has no cd (on tooltip is has no cd so yeah right). On paper both is correct, in fact both is wrong. The reason why Mantra recharge cds are lower are based in the recharge mechanic what is the base mechanic from Mantras, you need to count them into your arguemnts to make it realistic and not just exxaggerating to make stuff look op by exaggerating tooltips, that is Jawgeous ranting lvl and nothing i can take serious.
  2. As said that has nothing to do with a 2 secs evade for no costs is unintended and doesn't add any higher skill ceiling and is not balanced.
  1. If you want me to read it, then link me the comments you want me to look at. Otherwise, drop the topic. I disagree with your statements so prove me wrong.
  2. I disagree.
  1. Lol already wrote more than one wall of text to prove you wrong by using logic, facts and based on game knowledge arguments trying to be as unbiased as possible as a multiplayer even agree to some of your points. I don't need to do it again, it is all there already black on white so to say. I have done everything i needed to do. I don't restart. You can check it or let it be, i don't care in the end.
  2. Fine for me, as said i my view you are extremely biased, immune to every good argument and even facts and proves. I am not surprised it is the same when we talk about Ranger than it was with Mesmer just the other direction. Conclusion once again: Waste of time trying to have a constructive discussion with you and just stop answering to you. I even agree to parts of your arguments but you never rly agree to anything i say. I mean one time you said you do but then just restarted with the same wrong arguments vs other ppl, so yeah that was kind of worthless to say you agree in anything with me. In fact you don't agree in a single point, that is at least how you act.
  1. I disagree. If you want me to admit otherwise, link me a
    single
    post where you believe you're correct so I can read it again.
  2. I'm not biased. I play every single class and I find mesmer is probably the one I have the most fun on. There are builds I'd like to see nerfed on ranger and I'd like to see several other classes (including mesmer) receive buffs. However, I have the ability recognize when something is too strong. I'm in Aerospace and Mech Engineering and my focus is heavily on design and innovation. I'm good at pinpointing which areas are the best to focus on and develop further/first, where the problem areas are, and how to approach and construct the project in a way that not only performs well, but sells well/is easy to market. I also compete(d) professionally in several other games (shooters, BRs, MOBAs, etc. etc.) I understand balance very well.
  3. If you prove me wrong, I'll admit to it. But just saying, "I'm right and you're wrong." isn't a valid argument.

1 As said it is all there if you feel better by not rewatching stuff when i already told you where to look than it is your lazyness and not my problem. We disagree about you being biased or not. Also fine for me.

@"Abyssisis.3971" said:7 years, 0 complains, even after it was buffed once for 10% increase damage and a second time for 80% additional damage. Yet, it’s OPed, but only after anet releases these future “balance” changes, clearly this is a placebo effect...
  1. I and probably a lot of other ppl were always fully aware of that issue and not a fanboy of it. That GS Ranger was not overperforming because of it as a whole doesn't change the fact that 2 secs evade on an autoattack skill without any interrupt cd costs never was intended and also is not balanced or add any skill ceiling.
  1. Don't call me lazy when you literally said, "Sry i am too lazy" when I asked you to link me a single post you think you proved me wrong in.Just saying, "You're biased." doesn't make me biased. It's an attempt to discredit me because you can't/refuse to prove me wrong.
  2. If it wasn't over/underperforming, that means that the weapon is balanced and should be left alone.Since you clearly don't know the definition of the term Skill Ceiling:
    A skill ceiling is the level of skill required to use a hero to their maximum potential.
    In other words, learning how to use the GS auto evades skillfully was necessary in order to reach the weapon's maximum potential. You're wrong here.
  1. Stop this bulls... pls. I already wasted more than enough time and wrote more than one wall of text explaining very well why you are wrong with a lot of things. I am too lazy because i already did it. It is all there, check it yourself. I even gave you a good summary here already. I did more than enough. It is your turn. Or just let it be i don't care.
  2. No it doesn't mean the weapon itself was balanced, 2 sec evade on an autoattackskill withotu any interrupt cd cost, i mean seriously how can you even defend that. Logic at it's best.
  3. I know the definition and i made a further distinction to it because needed in this case. Like the only part it add some more skill ceiling was the need of knowing about it. The moment you know about it it lowers the skill ceiling in the gameplay part itself. Simple.
  1. Then link it. :joy:
  2. "GS Ranger was not overperforming... also is not balanced." Okay way to contradict yourself. You can't say GS ranger isn't too strong but the weapon is.
  3. Well, thanks to me, now you know the definition of it. You clearly didn't know it before if you said that learning how to use the GS evades effectively does not increase the skill ceiling.

Anyways maybe you don't make as much sense as I thought you did. Telling me to not run Chaos to prove that Mantras are too strong on their own was pretty illogical. Oh well.
  1. Again: im not going through 7 sides of the thread because you already forgot everything i wrote. It is not my responsibility. If you forgot then re-read it yourself.
  2. A build has a lot of different parts working together. There can be one Part overperforming during it get compensated by other Parts underperforming. Just like a build that is op is not op because of everyhting it uses, there are specific things make it op and you always should balance the root problem. Also there can be broken mechanics, they can result into op stuff or not but even when not they are unhealthy. 2 sec evade spam on an autoattack skill without any cost from an interrupt cd is such thing. A 2 sec evade was not intended and is not balance nor does it add any skill ceiling in the gameplay part. It is simple no cost evade spam every ape can do. Simple because it is a pure defensive mechanic get abuse makes it not overly problematic. Still it should get fixed.
  3. Where we are at Chaosline Mesmer again. Your Core build is overperforming only because of Chaosline in the first place (added by only Mantra of Pain as secondary carry mechanic and has nothing to do at all with any other Mantra). You can play only PU core without any Mantra (or at least only with Mantra of Pain) and the result would be the same. During a Mantra Mesmer/ Mirage without stealthspam for days and without broken passsive sustain from a defensive line is not any issue to counter and to get killed, except for the braindead Mantra of Pain spam what will not rly kill any of the high sustain bruiser builds by its own. Go find my comments where i explained very detailed why the clips with Vallun you were showing don't prove anything about the brustcombo being uncounterable. The 2 times Vallun died were because he played bad. Go back to my post where i explained why your screens don't prove anything. or where i explained how many counters Mantra of Distraction has during you claim it has not a single one or the post where i tell you how you need to analyze Mantras cds as a whole with the recharge included. Just rewatch all my posts i quoted you. You can click on your notification symbol in above right corner of this forum page to do that. Or watch the summary i gave you in this thread, i mentioned a lot here already.
  4. I now rly will stop to answer to you before i get too triggered and say something i need to feel sry for later.
  1. As I've stated previously, I do not believe you proved me wrong. If you say otherwise, then link me a single post where you believe this to be true.Your logical fallacy is:
    - "You said that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove."So again, it's illogical and incorrect of you to assume that it's
    my
    job to constantly disprove all of the claims you're flinging around.
  2. Sure but if the build as a whole isn't overperforming, then nerfing aspects of it will cause it to underperform. And as several other people have stated, the change is
    not
    a bug fix.
  3. The issue I have with mantras is it's ability to oneshot from stealth. The Mirage variant of mantras is not only more popular, but stronger and arguably more effective. Mur plays this version in the top 10. Mirage mantras is more mobile, has more cc, and way more survivability. The screenshots, clips, and raw gameplay footage I've posted are direct proof of my claims. Again, just because you say they don't, doesn't mean anything.
  4. Bye!
  1. Holy cow you don't get it, i already made all the effort to prove you wrong, if you forgot about that and even don't read the summary i gave several times in this thread it is your problem.
  2. As said in this case it was not overly problematic because it is a pure defensive mechanic get abused here. That always will get less of complains and will cause less big issues than if you could hit a skill doing 10k dmg twice instead of one time as intended. It will not kill GS Ranger just as it didn't make it insane broken.
  3. As said you can onehsot ppl completely without Mantras used. The only Mantra makes it even easier and has a SECONDARY relation to the oneshot out of stealth for days problematic is Mantra of Pain, no other Mantra, ONLY this one. The main issue from your build is Chaosline and no, a Powermirage (using Domination; Duelling or Illusion) doesn't have more sustain than that and the sustain a Mirage has is way more active than from Chaosline. A Powermirage even with double Mantra is nothing i fear no matter on what class (except some Necrobuilds), all their moves are counterable and predictable and it can be killed without problems. Choaline PU is a different story and that is mostly caused by Chaosline. But again, just re-read the Mesmer thread, it is all writen there and at some point you even made one comment that you agree with me, right after i left the thread. In the end you didn't rly agree... i guess you only didn't have any arguments left at that point and kind of surrendered to then come back later and use the same wrong arguments vs other ppl again. Waste of time dealing with you as said. I also don't just say somethign is wrong or right, i always explain very detailed. But you seems to forget anyway, who cares. Continue with your nonsense. This is a Ranger thread, i stop talking about Mesmer now here in general.
  4. Bye!
  1. Effort =/= results. You did not prove me wrong, just because you spent time and effort and say you did...
    doesn't mean you actually did.
    For the umpteenth time, link me a post where you believe this to be true and I'll reconsider.
  2. Sorry I think your logic is faulty again. A Mirage's ability to dodge while cc'd is a pure defensive mechanic that gets abused and it is
    frequently
    complained about. The same logic applies across the board. For example, Full Counter used to be on too low of a cooldown and present-day Holosmiths have too much sustain. People
    are
    vocal about overtuned defensive mechanics. However, I have never heard anyone complaining about GS autos until the upcoming balance patch's preview was released.
  3. I think Chaos is very strong but it's not the cause for Mantras being overpowered. They are both overtuned and deserving on nerfs.Again, your logical fallacy is:
    - "You said that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove."All of your responses to me can be summed up like this... "I'm right, you're wrong. I make sense, you don't make sense. I have arguments, you don't have arguments." without anything substantial to back up any of your claims.
  4. Bye!
  1. It is threre black on white, i also gave you enough examples as a summary (without re writing my whole argumentation because again: this is a Ranger not a Mesmer thread) just you being too lazy to re-read the thread after you forgot everything, it seems even your own post where you agree to me, doesn't make it unhappen lol. But nice try.
  2. Mirage ability to dodge while cced is intended mechanic and even baseline mechanic of the spec, what do you even compare here? Holo sustain as a whole is broken as hell in particular combined with the perma miniburst dmg, high cc uptime and good mobility. Ofc ppl complain more about that. No one ever said that the 3. skill of Ranger GS auto is comparable broken. Fullcounter has a high offensive component in addition to all the defense. Another comparison doesn't make sense. And in the end, how much the bunch of left in the game gold plebs complain about anything or not never was a good indicator of what is op or unhealthy mechanic or not. As said it doesn't make GS Ranger utterly broken but finally fixing it will also not kill the weapon. And fixing it is by logic the correct, although late move.
  3. Nope as said read the Mesmer thread again, there i explained and founded everything very detailed, i don't do it here again. I don't list all the counterplay to MoD and the difference to MoP and why MoD is not broken or op in any means and also not needed for the oneshot, and i don't re-write anything, i did already give a good summary, more then enough for you to be able to remember. I don't do the reasearch for you, it is not my responsibility to do it again. It is all writen and what do ppl do when they forgot about something? They read the book again they learnt it from. It is all there, i don't start that kitten from zero. So again nice try to contradict all the effort i did already in Mesmer thread in a Ranger channel with this nonsense request. Re-read my posts i quoted you or don't. Up to you, i already made my points and they all still stand.
  4. Bye again (yeah yeah nonsense always able to trigger me, sad life)
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