Cancel Greatsword skill change

[Ferus.3165]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:They should definitely go ahead with the greatsword change.

For one, almost no rangers really utilize the auto attack for an actual, purposeful evade. I'm sure Eurantien and other hardcore PvPers do to some extent, but for 99% of the population, actually evading something with greatsword AA is a pure RNG experience. Making the AA provide endurance for a purposeful dodge is a much better experience.

how would you know that 99% of ranger players don't actively use the evade or play like it does not exist? i think you just pulled that out of your kitten lol

Because if you’ve played PvP against most ranger players they don’t save the evade for anything and never do a whiff to get another evade out of it. I wouldn’t be surprised if most rangers (let alone most players) didn’t know there was an evade in the first place.

if that were the case, why remove the evade then? it was clearly not a problem from what you witnessed and it's been like that since the game launched. i have never seen a topic about the evade on ranger gs before these balance patch notes arrived here.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:They should definitely go ahead with the greatsword change.

For one, almost no rangers really utilize the auto attack for an actual, purposeful evade. I'm sure Eurantien and other hardcore PvPers do to some extent, but for 99% of the population, actually evading something with greatsword AA is a pure RNG experience. Making the AA provide endurance for a purposeful dodge is a much better experience.

how would you know that 99% of ranger players don't actively use the evade or play like it does not exist? i think you just pulled that out of your kitten lol

Because if you’ve played PvP against most ranger players they don’t save the evade for anything and never do a whiff to get another evade out of it. I wouldn’t be surprised if most rangers (let alone most players) didn’t know there was an evade in the first place.

It's not about saving or not, it is about have it! In melee fight, that auto gives you 1 evade which is way better than 15 endurance. We have plenty of skills/traits who give us 50% endurance regeneration. Endurance regenerates over time, at a base rate of 5% per second and a max rate 10% per second. You need 50 endurance for an evade, so with 15 endurance/hit we need 3.3 hits to get an evade. This means 4 times auto skill no.1. Or now we get an evade every auto skill no.1.In the same time, I don't think endurance regeneration is stackable. Otherwise 15 endurance /hit+50% endurance regeneration+25 Endurance+6 sec 100% Endurance regeneration will be perma endurance/ perma evade :) .As I said to the other thread if they want to do something they should fix that cancelling, but don't replace the 1s evade with 15 endurance/hit every 2s !!!

[Durzlla.6295]

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:They should definitely go ahead with the greatsword change.

For one, almost no rangers really utilize the auto attack for an actual, purposeful evade. I'm sure Eurantien and other hardcore PvPers do to some extent, but for 99% of the population, actually evading something with greatsword AA is a pure RNG experience. Making the AA provide endurance for a purposeful dodge is a much better experience.

how would you know that 99% of ranger players don't actively use the evade or play like it does not exist? i think you just pulled that out of your kitten lol

Because if you’ve played PvP against most ranger players they don’t save the evade for anything and never do a whiff to get another evade out of it. I wouldn’t be surprised if most rangers (let alone most players) didn’t know there was an evade in the first place.

if that were the case, why remove the evade then? it was clearly not a problem from what you witnessed and it's been like that since the game launched. i have never seen a topic about the evade on ranger gs before these balance patch notes arrived here.

It’s a problem for players against the ranger since as far as they’re going to be aware it’s literally just random evade frames (hints the RNG feeling of it). Sure it’s not actually RNG, but to someone who doesn’t even realize there is an evade they’ll just flail wildly and evade at random, sometimes even back to back since they may miss an attack by accident etc. > @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:They should definitely go ahead with the greatsword change.

For one, almost no rangers really utilize the auto attack for an actual, purposeful evade. I'm sure Eurantien and other hardcore PvPers do to some extent, but for 99% of the population, actually evading something with greatsword AA is a pure RNG experience. Making the AA provide endurance for a purposeful dodge is a much better experience.

how would you know that 99% of ranger players don't actively use the evade or play like it does not exist? i think you just pulled that out of your kitten lol

Because if you’ve played PvP against most ranger players they don’t save the evade for anything and never do a whiff to get another evade out of it. I wouldn’t be surprised if most rangers (let alone most players) didn’t know there was an evade in the first place.

It's not about saving or not, it is about have it! In melee fight, that auto gives you 1 evade which is way better than 15 endurance. We have plenty of skills/traits who give us 50% endurance regeneration. Endurance regenerates over time, at a base rate of 5% per second and a max rate 10% per second. You need 50 endurance for an evade, so with 15 endurance/hit we need 3.3 hits to get an evade. This means 4 times auto skill no.1. Or now we get an evade every auto skill no.1.In the same time, I don't think endurance regeneration is stackable. Otherwise 15 endurance /hit+50% endurance regeneration+25 Endurance+6 sec 100% Endurance regeneration will be perma endurance/ perma evade :) .As I said to the other thread if they want to do something they should fix that cancelling, but don't replace the 1s evade with 15 endurance/hit every 2s !!!

Endurance REGEN doesn’t stack, but gainin 15 endurance on hit WILL stack with vigor or our WS endurance regen. So it is going to be very strong still when stacked with either of those things.

That being said I think getting endurance gain in exchange for the evade will be fine if the auto got a shorter cast or more damage on the hit. Unless what a few other people have said ends up true where it’s 15 endurance PER HIT on the auto, the. It’ll be absolutely amazing as is and shouldn’t be changed. But I’m not expecting it to be that good.

[Eurantien.4632]

No one will get off a full auto chain with new GS in a fight. If you face tank for 2.5 seconds, you're toast.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@"Durzlla.6295" said:Endurance REGEN doesn’t stack, but gainin 15 endurance on hit WILL stack with vigor or our WS endurance regen. So it is going to be very strong still when stacked with either of those things.

That being said I think getting endurance gain in exchange for the evade will be fine if the auto got a shorter cast or more damage on the hit. Unless what a few other people have said ends up true where it’s 15 endurance PER HIT on the auto, the. It’ll be absolutely amazing as is and shouldn’t be changed. But I’m not expecting it to be that good.

"You need 50 endurance for an evade, so with 15 endurance/hit we need 3.3 hits to get an evade. This means 4 times auto skill no.1. Or now we get an evade every auto skill no.1."I don't think the third form of skil no.1 will be every 1 sec ... so it is no possible way that that skill will be better than Power Stab.Technical talking, even the third form it will be every 1 sec still need 4 sec to gain 50 endurance, so you'll get 1 dodge. If you already used 1 of your 2 dodge, this will be useful, but if you didn't use any of your 2 dodge, those15x4 times endurance will be waste.With the actual form of GS, you evade every 1 sec, but you still have 2 dodges to spare.I don't see how 15 endurance /hit could be better than 1 evade/s.

Conclusion, this is a BIG NERF to GS!

[Eurantien.4632]

You guys remember that time they tried to put smoke assault on the smokesale F2? This is crazier than that.

[monk seal.8079]

@Eurantien.4632 said:Ranger has no staying power in a fight without the GS auto evade. I didn't realize how negatively impactful this change will be until I played today and actively thought about how much I use the evade - and I use it intentionally most of the time. This is going to be a brutal change.

Does this mean ranger players will have to use the boonbeast build to have any chance in team fights?

[Cyric.7813]

Hands of from GS!

[Abyssisis.3971]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@"Durzlla.6295" said:Endurance REGEN doesn’t stack, but gainin 15 endurance on hit WILL stack with vigor or our WS endurance regen. So it is going to be very strong still when stacked with either of those things.

That being said I think getting endurance gain in exchange for the evade will be fine if the auto got a shorter cast or more damage on the hit. Unless what a few other people have said ends up true where it’s 15 endurance PER HIT on the auto, the. It’ll be absolutely amazing as is and shouldn’t be changed. But I’m not expecting it to be that good.

"You need 50 endurance for an evade, so with 15 endurance/hit we need 3.3 hits to get an evade. This means 4 times auto skill no.1. Or now we get an evade every auto skill no.1."I don't think the third form of skil no.1 will be every 1 sec ... so it is no possible way that that skill will be better than Power Stab.Technical talking, even the third form it will be every 1 sec still need 4 sec to gain 50 endurance, so you'll get 1 dodge. If you already used 1 of your 2 dodge, this will be useful, but if you didn't use any of your 2 dodge, those15x4 times endurance will be waste.With the actual form of GS, you evade every 1 sec, but you still have 2 dodges to spare.I don't see how 15 endurance /hit could be better than 1 evade/s.

Conclusion, this is a BIG NERF to GS!

I don’t think it’s 15 endurance per auto hit, i think it’s 15 endurance per enduring swing.

[Lazze.9870]

@Durzlla.6295 said:It’s a problem for players against the ranger since as far as they’re going to be aware it’s literally just random evade frames (hints the RNG feeling of it). Sure it’s not actually RNG, but to someone who doesn’t even realize there is an evade they’ll just flail wildly and evade at random, sometimes even back to back since they may miss an attack by accident etc.

You gotta be joking?

Let's change a skill because some players don't fully understand how it works, and might get annoyed by it.

[Eurantien.4632]

@monk seal.8079 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:Ranger has no staying power in a fight without the GS auto evade. I didn't realize how negatively impactful this change will be until I played today and actively thought about how much I use the evade - and I use it intentionally most of the time. This is going to be a brutal change.

Does this mean ranger players will have to use the boonbeast build to have any chance in team fights?

We might. Boon beast is much tankier and the change to sword could possibly mean we could go s/a for more offense, we have a leap to get in there to use whirling defense and then still have our evade options to get out with serpents follow up after whirling and hornets sting. This is what I envision: merge -> assault or leap in -> you have serpents strike or unmerge and smoke and leap out if you want, or you blast with warhorn or you attack with whirling defense, or hornets sting. If you stay and DPS you have lots of ways to get out, especially with hornets sting. Then once you're out you could time an unmerge smokescale for a kd during hornets sting and follow up with a path of scars to pull them out of te fight towards you that's is now ranged and ready to kite with a/w and maybe even stealth with warhorn vlast in smoke if you need to and haven't used it yet. Sword imo, is gonna be much better as it now is no longer purely defense but a nice hybrid, especially with cripple on auto and leap.

There's a possibility that sword just might be better than GS for a lb pairing too but we will see.

Personally, I think GS will still work it'll just be a shadow of its former self. Before we could go in with swoop run out with gs 4, or auto evades, kinda wait for CDs, throw the GS, go back in with pet merge then get out.

Now we will have go in, swoop to get out or GS block and that's it, once those are gone we have no more evades to help us out. On one hand we will be able to sit there in GS 4 and that'll be nice, on the other, once that's gone we have nothing. So the in and out playstyle won't really be the same.

Possibly quick draw might make a strong come back to make full use of GS 4 but we'll have to see how the CDs interact and giving up MM probably isn't work it imo.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Ferus.3165 said:the dodge on gs is quite important for a ranger because this class has no access to the myriads of blocks invul skills needed to stay in melee for a longer duration and it also does not have the necessary teleports to weave in and out of melee range as e.g. thieves do. No aoe attacks to speak of, no boon corrupts, not alot of control skills, no support build that is comparable to the meta. Why would you play a ranger when it is as much of a squish class like thief but lacks the tools to survive and dies as fast as a warrior without stances. The removal of the auto chain dodge is the demise of ranger greatsword.

Ranger is not meant to be in meele thats why ranger has acces to range weapon and pets . But crippling is bit unnecsery and swoop is a bad evade since its clunky back to axe/axe /axe/wh gameplay for since those are the good weps on ranger

[Dahkeus.8243]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:They should definitely go ahead with the greatsword change.

For one, almost no rangers really utilize the auto attack for an actual, purposeful evade. I'm sure Eurantien and other hardcore PvPers do to some extent, but for 99% of the population, actually evading something with greatsword AA is a pure RNG experience. Making the AA provide endurance for a purposeful dodge is a much better experience.

Out of the 99 % of the population you're talking about playing this game, another 99 % don't give a flying F about what the skill does at all, including giving endurance.

It's a non-argument. And the evade isn't RNG. That's not what RNG means.

Read the post again. The evade isn't RNG. Evading something is.

And look at all the forum drama going on over this. Clearly there is a sizeable portion of the community that care about balance changes for this and while I'm sure most would love for you to believe that they are pro enough to expertly time their auto attacks to purposefully evade key attacks in a way that would net less damage taken than if they just simply gained endurance from attacking, if you believe that, then I have some swampland in Florida to sell you.

[Dahkeus.8243]

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:They should definitely go ahead with the greatsword change.

For one, almost no rangers really utilize the auto attack for an actual, purposeful evade. I'm sure Eurantien and other hardcore PvPers do to some extent, but for 99% of the population, actually evading something with greatsword AA is a pure RNG experience. Making the AA provide endurance for a purposeful dodge is a much better experience.

how would you know that 99% of ranger players don't actively use the evade or play like it does not exist? i think you just pulled that out of your kitten lol

It's a generalization based on my experience playing the game since beta. Don't take the number that seriously.

What, do you think I was pretending to quote some imaginary analytics report or something?

[Deax.1572]

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:They should definitely go ahead with the greatsword change.

For one, almost no rangers really utilize the auto attack for an actual, purposeful evade. I'm sure Eurantien and other hardcore PvPers do to some extent, but for 99% of the population, actually evading something with greatsword AA is a pure RNG experience. Making the AA provide endurance for a purposeful dodge is a much better experience.

how would you know that 99% of ranger players don't actively use the evade or play like it does not exist? i think you just pulled that out of your kitten lol

It's a generalization based on my experience playing the game since beta. Don't take the number that seriously.

What, do you think I was pretending to quote some imaginary analytics report or something?

When i play these days (not much tbh) i mostly play wvw and i can say with absolute certainty that it's not pure RNG. Greatsword AA is amazing for cleaving under pressure. You downed a guy, one guy is starting to rez, some AoE is on you, another guy is trying to land skills on you. I can evade damage AND do damage, it's not RNG at that point, it's an active defense/offense mix. The new change would delete this option and replace it with a "meh" option.With the old option - Even if you don't land the 3rd AA you still get the evade and what's better is that you can use it twice before the AA resets granting you 2s of evade.New option - Get a tiny bit of endurance IF you land the hit.Every hit you evaded is damage you didn't take, saving a heal, saving condi clears. Even if it's "RNG" it's better to have it than not have it, imo.

[Ferus.3165]

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:They should definitely go ahead with the greatsword change.

For one, almost no rangers really utilize the auto attack for an actual, purposeful evade. I'm sure Eurantien and other hardcore PvPers do to some extent, but for 99% of the population, actually evading something with greatsword AA is a pure RNG experience. Making the AA provide endurance for a purposeful dodge is a much better experience.

how would you know that 99% of ranger players don't actively use the evade or play like it does not exist? i think you just pulled that out of your kitten lol

It's a generalization based on my experience playing the game since beta. Don't take the number that seriously.

What, do you think I was pretending to quote some imaginary analytics report or something?

so it's bs what you are spouting... personal opinion and not what the majority of the playerbase thinks... from what i experienced it is the complete opposite of what you say, but it doesn't matter anyway. Time to join the deadeye army.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Abyssisis.3971 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@"Durzlla.6295" said:Endurance REGEN doesn’t stack, but gainin 15 endurance on hit WILL stack with vigor or our WS endurance regen. So it is going to be very strong still when stacked with either of those things.

That being said I think getting endurance gain in exchange for the evade will be fine if the auto got a shorter cast or more damage on the hit. Unless what a few other people have said ends up true where it’s 15 endurance PER HIT on the auto, the. It’ll be absolutely amazing as is and shouldn’t be changed. But I’m not expecting it to be that good.

"You need 50 endurance for an evade, so with 15 endurance/hit we need 3.3 hits to get an evade. This means 4 times auto skill no.1. Or now we get an evade every auto skill no.1."I don't think the third form of skil no.1 will be every 1 sec ... so it is no possible way that that skill will be better than Power Stab.Technical talking, even the third form it will be every 1 sec still need 4 sec to gain 50 endurance, so you'll get 1 dodge. If you already used 1 of your 2 dodge, this will be useful, but if you didn't use any of your 2 dodge, those15x4 times endurance will be waste.With the actual form of GS, you evade every 1 sec, but you still have 2 dodges to spare.I don't see how 15 endurance /hit could be better than 1 evade/s.

Conclusion, this is a BIG NERF to GS!

I don’t think it’s 15 endurance per auto hit, i think it’s 15 endurance per enduring swing.

"Power Stab: This skill no longer evades for its duration. Its name has been changed to Enduring Swing. This skill now grants 15 endurance if it hits."

[Lazze.9870]

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:They should definitely go ahead with the greatsword change.

For one, almost no rangers really utilize the auto attack for an actual, purposeful evade. I'm sure Eurantien and other hardcore PvPers do to some extent, but for 99% of the population, actually evading something with greatsword AA is a pure RNG experience. Making the AA provide endurance for a purposeful dodge is a much better experience.

Out of the 99 % of the population you're talking about playing this game, another 99 % don't give a flying F about what the skill does at all, including giving endurance.

It's a non-argument. And the evade isn't RNG. That's not what RNG means.

Read the post again. The evade isn't RNG. Evading something is.

And look at all the forum drama going on over this. Clearly there is a sizeable portion of the community that care about balance changes for this and while I'm sure most would love for you to believe that they are pro enough to expertly time their auto attacks to purposefully evade key attacks in a way that would net less damage taken than if they just simply gained endurance from attacking, if you believe that, then I have some swampland in Florida to sell you.

If you think gaining 15 endurance for swinging the entire autochain with greatsword on ranger is gonna have any impact whatsoever, chances are you got swampland to sell because you already bought it from someone else.

And read my post again. Those players you are refering to don't care if it's the evade or the endurance. The players that do care lost a useful skill in exchange for something they will never get any value out of.

Your argument is trash.

[Archon.3987]

You can only use the "oh so much better" 3-targets-get-hit counterattack kick if "Counterattack" (it should be called "Block" now because counterattacking is not what the skill does anymore) has successfully blocked an attack.

They removed an entire skill to make a manual counterkick which you have no actual control over whatsoever.When there was no block successful earlier one at least had a light CC skill.This is so bad.

[Levetty.1279]

@Dahkeus.8243 said:Read the post again. The evade isn't RNG. Evading something is.

Stop using words you don't know the meaning of.

[Substance E.4852]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Ranger is not meant to be in meele thats why ranger has acces to range weapon and pets .

Is that why they nerfed our ranged potential in WvW, insist on all our ranged attacks be projectiles, and refuse to give us any decent ranged aoe?

[Dahkeus.8243]

Even if you technically reduce more damage by continually swinging away and getting lucky enough to avoid damage during the 3rd step of your auto attack compared to gaining enough endurance to dodge a specific attack, it's still better design.

Evade on the third swing of an auto attack is basically akin to passive gameplay.

@Levetty.1279 said:

@"Dahkeus.8243" said:Read the post again. The evade isn't RNG. Evading something is.

Stop using words you don't know the meaning of.

If you're not actively pressing a button in order to try and avoid an action that you're anticipating and are just auto-attacking, then anything you avoid is purely based on the chance of some attack hitting you while your character is swinging away. Technically not "random number generator", but it's still a random effect. It's not complicated.

[Eurantien.4632]

Greatsword is terrible. People just walk away from you and you have 0 chase potential due to the loss of CRIPPLING throw. This weapon set was one that almost no one complained about since LAUNCH and it's been gutted. This change was clearly not meant for PvP and I'm disgusted. Counterattack Kick needs to last for at least 3 more seconds or longer and even then, GS has gone from a well rounded weapon to something far inferior.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Eurantien.4632 said:Greatsword is terrible. People just walk away from you and you have 0 chase potential due to the loss of CRIPPLING throw. This weapon set was one that almost no one complained about since LAUNCH and it's been gutted. This change was clearly not meant for PvP and I'm disgusted. Counterattack Kick needs to last for at least 3 more seconds or longer and even then, GS has gone from a well rounded weapon to something far inferior.

Totally agree with you. In sPVP is more than worst. Most of the ppl already know the animation for blocking and they just run away before you can kick.Every time when I try to chase someone, I am running like a clown with my big GS without any possibility to catch him. It is more than hilarious when you see a ranger running with GS after an enemy. The 3rd form of Auto is useless, those 15 endurances are useless because you can't stay anymore in front of a melee class. They broke totally GS.

[Phoebe Ascension.8437]

Insanely sad about the Greatsword auto attack change. It was never in a lifetime overpowered, because of how hard it was to activate, and it was offset by low dps, and long cast time, and a 'big tell'. Nobody in a lifetime complainted about this skill ('nerf it', never heard), yet YOU DID anet. What's more, this skill, is one of the most 'ranger identity' skills i had in long while. It was the thing that made one of the weakest dps greatswords IN GAME, still FUN TO USE. A game is made to be fun, not a dreaded experience.

And if that FUN to use skill, is NOT overpowered, not even in wvw, pvp, or pve, and YET you kill it, WHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? are you for real. I shouldn't even start about this, but now i have to. Bound on thief is way more an issue (like 20x more into the possible realm of overpowered, then this. Also full counter, wich can be activated on command, and has insane powerfull second part is there. And because full counter isn't block but evade, it actually cannot be interrupted. And like that isn't enough warrior has greatsword 3. Add these things, and you got much more evade shit. But imo, i can even live with these classes skills, though some could use a tuning (but definitely NOT a removal). And yet the waaaaaaaaaaaaaay weaker, skill, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay harder to control powerstab is REMOVED from the game. Just like that. poof gone. One of the certainties in this game: ranger greatsword, is average, but fun to use, is now GONE by arenanet.

Also endurance gain is very weak. You must complete 3 strikes before you are allowed to dodge (otherwise you get even fewer endurance). And dodging every third attack, doenst work, because enemies time their skills different (more random). And when you apply that to reality, the 15 endurance will either hit cap (start of fight) or get you to late endurance, or give you 0 because you have to evade after 2nd strike, or because it's BLOCKED/evades/invul by enemy, you get 0 endurance. And yet arenanet i tested this in game already in the form of decapitate, if you want to use it's 15 endurance gain you loose a lot of dps, and uptime on berserk mode, and often in crucial situation you dont land it, making it useless anyway. Plus decapitate is on command, can be used any time. Powerstab is hided after annoying two step auto attack.

Arenanet i'm very pragmatic in nerfs, balance etc (though i hate your general nerf dps agenda, and nerf support agenda in raid lately, makes game a dread to play rather then fun). But this? a skill absolutely not overpowered in not even the slightest sense, yet known that true rangers love it while other professions say 'meh powerstab', and yet you removed it arenanet.

Why don't you remove wvw anet? It's also fun to play. Oh wait, remove living story... Nerf what's fun. Right? New logic. I havent spend on ultimate edition since gw2 launch. Every time 1 element killed my motivation to buy it. So far, you managed 2 years to get me into buying it, up until this point. It may sound stupid arenanet, but if you don't repair this iconic skill, you will not get an extra 40 euro/dollar from me. I feel like i have to make a statement because how bad and illogical this decision is, and how far it is from someone who truly plays the game. The last 3 months have WAY to much number crunching (a passive accountant doing this job), but the accountant meanwhile kills the fun of accounting, because he doenst realize a coloured book is more fun then a black and white book, because he doenst actually have to use the accountant software he creates. This post is not offensive (meant). IF it is ask to edit the part you find so. But yes i'm extremely dissapointed.

Don't fix what ain't broke. Rule nr 1 arenanet. And btw you have enough to fix what is broken (like templates, otherwise they'd be here already), you lost a ton of employees, can we please not do this kind of stuff and be more efficient. Let the fun stuff in game be the fun stuff in game. Change new content. /Don't Fix what Ain't broke!