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Upcoming Ranger melee weapon balance changes

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  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Gonna be tough chasing people without crippling throw

  • @shadowpass.4236 said:

    The 10x damage difference was in regards to PvE.

    There's ZERO RNG on Power Stab's evade. It's literally the same sequence of attacks every single time.

    I'm straight up telling you right now that the new GS4 change isn't nearly as good as you think it will be. It's like Bandit's Defense. No one gets hit by that kitten anyways. Huge, huge nerfs to this weapon.

    We're losing so much utility and depth with these nerfs.

    Sure that 10x damage was PvE but it still tells the bigger story of a huge player skill gap which is definitely there in PvP.

    I know you can double cast the gs evade if you cancel it at the right time. I know you can jump with GS 4 and other counter attacks to keep channeling blocks. I also usually screw those up and/or don't always bother with it. I also doubt that the vast majority of players even know you can do those things because of that "10x" skill gap. I 100% understand why top ranger players would be pissed and I feel bad for you but I'm not upset.

    That 15 endurance helps me with my next dodge and I can time that dodge when I want to. That's also a bit more healing/prot uptime because of an active dodge instead of evade frames. Making GS4 a full channeled block is a buff to my defenses that isn't randomly wasted on a clone etc when I mess up a jump.

    You lose an evade and damage on GS auto but you gain an evade and damage on GS4.2. I don't like the argument that no one gets hit by bandit's defense. I can say that about any skill to try to trivialize anyone's argument. I'll do it now. GS auto is only an evade and not pressure since no one ever gets hit by GS auto. /s. 3 second channel block followed by a 5 second window to evade & CC on a 12 second CD is a lot better than bandits defense taking up a utility slot. Bandit's defense also doesn't have an evade on that kick so it can be interrupted.

    Again, I understand your loss but it's 100% a gain for me.

  • Lazze.9870Lazze.9870 Member ✭✭✭

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    than bandits defense taking up a utility slot. Bandit's defense also doesn't have an evade on that kick so it can be interrupted.

    But it is a 20 sec cd stun break.

    Can't sum up the bad without the good.

  • @Lazze.9870 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    than bandits defense taking up a utility slot. Bandit's defense also doesn't have an evade on that kick so it can be interrupted.

    But it is a 20 sec cd stun break.

    Can't sum up the bad without the good.

    Oh absolutely that's a great aspect of it. I was mostly focused on the offensive aspect due to the claim "no one gets hit by it anyways."

  • Ferus.3165Ferus.3165 Member ✭✭✭

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    than bandits defense taking up a utility slot. Bandit's defense also doesn't have an evade on that kick so it can be interrupted.

    But it is a 20 sec cd stun break.

    Can't sum up the bad without the good.

    Oh absolutely that's a great aspect of it. I was mostly focused on the offensive aspect due to the claim "no one gets hit by it anyways."

    bandits defense is the most broken skill in this game... you get a 16 sec cd stunbreak, 1.5 sec block and a 2 sec knockdown all with one utility skill. I don't know what you are all on about but that skills deserves a cd increase to 40-45 sec. Anyone who is defending this skill is absolutely delusional.

  • @Ferus.3165 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    than bandits defense taking up a utility slot. Bandit's defense also doesn't have an evade on that kick so it can be interrupted.

    But it is a 20 sec cd stun break.

    Can't sum up the bad without the good.

    Oh absolutely that's a great aspect of it. I was mostly focused on the offensive aspect due to the claim "no one gets hit by it anyways."

    bandits defense is the most broken skill in this game... you get a 16 sec cd stunbreak, 1.5 sec block and a 2 sec knockdown all with one utility skill. I don't know what you are all on about but that skills deserves a cd increase to 40-45 sec. Anyone who is defending this skill is absolutely delusional.

    As a thief skill, it’s balanced if not alittle underpowered since it doesn’t also stealth the user.... It would be game breaking OPed if it was a ranger skill tho. Ahha

  • Holland.9351Holland.9351 Member ✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @Durzlla.6295 said:

    @Holland.9351 said:
    How can hornet recharge monarch if monarch has switched to serpent?

    But I'll see if it's any good.

    as for greatsword, just remove the kick and keep the throw. I have no opinion on the auto

    The #2 on ranger sword is going to be Monarch Leap which then chains into serpent strike. So you’d leap in; and then be able to serpent strike.

    so let's say you use monarch leap. It now becomes serpent strike.

    then you use hornet sting, which reduces cooldown on monarch leap... but there is no monarch leap because it's serpent strike.

  • Durzlla.6295Durzlla.6295 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Holland.9351 said:

    @Durzlla.6295 said:

    @Holland.9351 said:
    How can hornet recharge monarch if monarch has switched to serpent?

    But I'll see if it's any good.

    as for greatsword, just remove the kick and keep the throw. I have no opinion on the auto

    The #2 on ranger sword is going to be Monarch Leap which then chains into serpent strike. So you’d leap in; and then be able to serpent strike.

    so let's say you use monarch leap. It now becomes serpent strike.

    then you use hornet sting, which reduces cooldown on monarch leap... but there is no monarch leap because it's serpent strike.

    It only becomes Serpent Strike for 5s, or until you use Serpent Strike, that's how flip skills work.

    "But my children sing to me. Listen. They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family. As their mother, I have to grant them their wish."

  • @Durzlla.6295 said:

    @Holland.9351 said:

    @Durzlla.6295 said:

    @Holland.9351 said:
    How can hornet recharge monarch if monarch has switched to serpent?

    But I'll see if it's any good.

    as for greatsword, just remove the kick and keep the throw. I have no opinion on the auto

    The #2 on ranger sword is going to be Monarch Leap which then chains into serpent strike. So you’d leap in; and then be able to serpent strike.

    so let's say you use monarch leap. It now becomes serpent strike.

    then you use hornet sting, which reduces cooldown on monarch leap... but there is no monarch leap because it's serpent strike.

    It only becomes Serpent Strike for 5s, or until you use Serpent Strike, that's how flip skills work.

    All I'm saying is that it might not even apply the cooldown reduction while serpent strike is up.

  • @Ferus.3165 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    than bandits defense taking up a utility slot. Bandit's defense also doesn't have an evade on that kick so it can be interrupted.

    But it is a 20 sec cd stun break.

    Can't sum up the bad without the good.

    Oh absolutely that's a great aspect of it. I was mostly focused on the offensive aspect due to the claim "no one gets hit by it anyways."

    bandits defense is the most broken skill in this game... you get a 16 sec cd stunbreak, 1.5 sec block and a 2 sec knockdown all with one utility skill. I don't know what you are all on about but that skills deserves a cd increase to 40-45 sec. Anyone who is defending this skill is absolutely delusional.

    Lmao bandits defense isn't even close to broken. It's literally a block u have to time before the incoming attack due to not being 3 sec like most. It's a block u literally have to pop when u see a the cast animations of the opponents skill starting which makes it far more skill oriented than other blocks. The knock down basically stops it from being the worst block skill in the game and is on a class with few knock downs. Us it so hard to block on gs (how many sec of block) than follow with s smokescale knockdown or any other pet knockdown. Not saying the gs changes are good but comparing to BD is silly

  • jcbroe.4329jcbroe.4329 Member ✭✭✭

    Hey all, long time no see (better games out there to play).

    Just some thoughts:

    Power Stab - I get this change but it comes at an obnoxious time. People, myself included, have been asking in an attempt to reduce power creep for the separation of offensive and defensive functions in skills.
    But as @Chaith.8256 mentioned elsewhere, it feels really, really bad when a mechanic like this that has existed since launch is suddenly changed on what currently appears to be an under-performing spec when things like Warrior Reckless Impact, Mirage Infinite Horizon, Revenant Unrelenting Assault, and Holosmith Thermal Release Valve/Vent Exhaust with arguably more pronounced and gamechanging effects get to continue to exist and are "safe" from the balance cycle until 2020 or PvP/WvW are shut down.

    The assumed reasoning and outcome of the change also gets muddled by:
    Stalker's Strike - Why? Increased damage on a defensive skill when damage should be minimal (really just there to break stealth) or removed on defensive skill, utility (ie new Power Stab) added back as needed. Also, the damage is meaningless??? It could be a 1000% damage buff on this skill and it would still be bad at doing damage. Even if this is for PvE benchmarking I can't imagine this being a useful change in any sense - it looks to me like a low hanging fruit mathematical change so the devs can say they updated the weapon and then never give it a second look to give it the update it actually needs.

    Counterattack - I like this change conceptually except for the removal of Crippling Throw. It feels really bad for the skill to automatically stop blocking to do some attack you may not want it to do. The Kick is actually the worst part of Greatsword imo, why are we keeping it? Why is a weapon designed for close range and keeping people close even equipped with a skill the does the opposite and displaces people?
    Since this change is already happening and this is all too late - please make the followup kick a Knockdown instead of a Knockback in the future. RIP Crippling Throw.

    Sword............I don't even know where to begin with this. You're taking a weapon that functions well already as a utility weapon but that PvE people want more damage on so that there is an actual rotation......and you're shuffling the skills around to alter the gameplay flow to provide less overall utility and no increase to damage - so no change the the PvE rotation?
    Also Hornet's Sting was already borderline as a skill that flipped. As a standalone skill with double the cooldown? Garbage. Surely there's meant to be some sort of blind or interrupt component just as something, ANYTHING, to make this a worthwhile change? As it is now it's an escape/evade skill who's purpose to recharge a skill the completely invalidates this skills function.
    And Monarch's Leap.....did you guys forget a note where the damage of this weapon has been tripled? Or an immobilize added and Serpent's Strike damage tripled/quadrupled?
    I'm just struggling to comprehend why you would take an already niche, alright weapon and make it objectively worse here, don't mind me.

    Anyhow, that's just my feedback/reactions all. I'm sorry to see a lot of familiar faces still around and I'm mainly posting for visibility so that I can say to you guys:
    Stop. This isn't healthy. This game is long passed it's prime and has squandered all of its potential. How long are you going to wait around for trying to force changes and understanding to happen? There are many other games on the market and things to do. You are not being listened to, your feedback is not being accounted for, and your time is not being respected. You are being treated purely as a consumer, and as such my suggestion is to do the only thing that gets measured as feedback anymore - boycott. Stop playing, stop participating, stop paying. Trust me, it's a buy to play game and at the glacial pacing you can go 6 months at a time without checking in and nothing changes on you. You won't be missing anything, and think of all the things you are missing if you aren't satisfied here but haven't moved on.

    Just food for thought.

    Jroh | Former SOAC Ranger Podcaster | Top 100 PvP
    https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
    www.twitch.tv/itsJROH

  • Ferus.3165Ferus.3165 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Ferus.3165 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    than bandits defense taking up a utility slot. Bandit's defense also doesn't have an evade on that kick so it can be interrupted.

    But it is a 20 sec cd stun break.

    Can't sum up the bad without the good.

    Oh absolutely that's a great aspect of it. I was mostly focused on the offensive aspect due to the claim "no one gets hit by it anyways."

    bandits defense is the most broken skill in this game... you get a 16 sec cd stunbreak, 1.5 sec block and a 2 sec knockdown all with one utility skill. I don't know what you are all on about but that skills deserves a cd increase to 40-45 sec. Anyone who is defending this skill is absolutely delusional.

    Lmao bandits defense isn't even close to broken. It's literally a block u have to time before the incoming attack due to not being 3 sec like most. It's a block u literally have to pop when u see a the cast animations of the opponents skill starting which makes it far more skill oriented than other blocks. The knock down basically stops it from being the worst block skill in the game and is on a class with few knock downs. Us it so hard to block on gs (how many sec of block) than follow with s smokescale knockdown or any other pet knockdown. Not saying the gs changes are good but comparing to BD is silly

    it's not just a block... it's a stunbreak, a block and a knockdown on a 16 sec cd... that skill is beyong broken

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    @Ferus.3165 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Ferus.3165 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    than bandits defense taking up a utility slot. Bandit's defense also doesn't have an evade on that kick so it can be interrupted.

    But it is a 20 sec cd stun break.

    Can't sum up the bad without the good.

    Oh absolutely that's a great aspect of it. I was mostly focused on the offensive aspect due to the claim "no one gets hit by it anyways."

    bandits defense is the most broken skill in this game... you get a 16 sec cd stunbreak, 1.5 sec block and a 2 sec knockdown all with one utility skill. I don't know what you are all on about but that skills deserves a cd increase to 40-45 sec. Anyone who is defending this skill is absolutely delusional.

    Lmao bandits defense isn't even close to broken. It's literally a block u have to time before the incoming attack due to not being 3 sec like most. It's a block u literally have to pop when u see a the cast animations of the opponents skill starting which makes it far more skill oriented than other blocks. The knock down basically stops it from being the worst block skill in the game and is on a class with few knock downs. Us it so hard to block on gs (how many sec of block) than follow with s smokescale knockdown or any other pet knockdown. Not saying the gs changes are good but comparing to BD is silly

    it's not just a block... it's a stunbreak, a block and a knockdown on a 16 sec cd... that skill is beyong broken

    So a utility not a weapon skill is beyond broken but the ranger gs 3 sec block with crippling sword throw if chosen with a follow up kick after block isnt? Bias? Oh it's a stun break utility and 1 1/2 sec block that last as long as some skill cast times lol with a knockdown oh no so broken considering wheres thiefs other knock down skill, oh yeah on staff tied to specific criteria to proc unlike slb knock down via pet un merged or merged lol id say one def on the more broken side. Not sure I'd say its thief. Bias is heavy on this one.

  • Can we not neuter classes and change them like this. first went original sword auto and now rest of the skills and the gs nerfs?! i know i was in the minority but original auto was amazing and the animation was so much better than this new twirly one...

  • Ferus.3165Ferus.3165 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Ferus.3165 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Ferus.3165 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    than bandits defense taking up a utility slot. Bandit's defense also doesn't have an evade on that kick so it can be interrupted.

    But it is a 20 sec cd stun break.

    Can't sum up the bad without the good.

    Oh absolutely that's a great aspect of it. I was mostly focused on the offensive aspect due to the claim "no one gets hit by it anyways."

    bandits defense is the most broken skill in this game... you get a 16 sec cd stunbreak, 1.5 sec block and a 2 sec knockdown all with one utility skill. I don't know what you are all on about but that skills deserves a cd increase to 40-45 sec. Anyone who is defending this skill is absolutely delusional.

    Lmao bandits defense isn't even close to broken. It's literally a block u have to time before the incoming attack due to not being 3 sec like most. It's a block u literally have to pop when u see a the cast animations of the opponents skill starting which makes it far more skill oriented than other blocks. The knock down basically stops it from being the worst block skill in the game and is on a class with few knock downs. Us it so hard to block on gs (how many sec of block) than follow with s smokescale knockdown or any other pet knockdown. Not saying the gs changes are good but comparing to BD is silly

    it's not just a block... it's a stunbreak, a block and a knockdown on a 16 sec cd... that skill is beyong broken

    So a utility not a weapon skill is beyond broken but the ranger gs 3 sec block with crippling sword throw if chosen with a follow up kick after block isnt? Bias? Oh it's a stun break utility and 1 1/2 sec block that last as long as some skill cast times lol with a knockdown oh no so broken considering wheres thiefs other knock down skill, oh yeah on staff tied to specific criteria to proc unlike slb knock down via pet un merged or merged lol id say one def on the more broken side. Not sure I'd say its thief. Bias is heavy on this one.

    there is no room for debate here... The block and the knockdown on that cd would be fine aswell, but the stunbreak part makes the skill incredible overpowered... Thief is already extremely hard to hit and most cc skills have huge cast times and then when you manage to hit a dd (because the dd misplayed, that is the only chance for a dd to get hit with a cc skill) the dd has a 16 cd stunbreak? that is bs and everybody (except thief players as it seems) knows this. Comparable skills that have a stunbreak and some utility added have a much larger cd (e.g. Featherfoot Grace (40 sec cd), Quickening Zephyr (36 sec cd) ) . Again, the stunbreak is, what makes this skill so overpowered. Remove the stunbreak from bandits defense and the skill is fine with the 16 sec cd. Most skills could be blocked anyway with bandits defense if the dd would have simply reacted in time. The stunbreak is like a failsafe card that is not needed (reminds me of the old op'ness of the elusive mind trait) in any way and makes it kitten near impossible to lock down even a bad dd.

    The problem with bandits defense is that you can use this skill preemptively and reactively to gain an "almost invulnerability + cc for a fairly long duration" AND it has an extremely low cooldown. "Bandits Defense" in it's current state is broken and needs a heavy nerf. End of story.

  • You can only use the "oh so much better" 3-targets-get-hit counterattack kick if "Counterattack" (it should be called block now because counterattacking is not what the skill does anymore) has successfully blocked an attack.

    They removed an entire skill to make a manual counterkick which you have no actual control over whatsoever.
    When there was no block successful earlier one at least had a light CC skill.
    Worse than expected.

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    I'll save everybody the trouble of logging in. GS auto 3 is still slow as kitten and stalker's strike still hits like a wet noodle and thus dagger is useless. Embarrassment.

  • Lazze.9870Lazze.9870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    Tried it. Like some things, hate others. I think they AT LEAST should add some QoL by reducing the cast time on the GS auto and add 3 targets to the second attack in the sword autochain (which would have been a lot better than new skill icons that we only see for a split second).

    Off-hand dagger stays irrelevant. Sure, it has more pressure on top of what it has been used for, but it's not like its breaking its way into any builds (moving targets for a PvE condi ranger, maybe..). Regardless, the fact that they added ammo to Crippling Talon a whole two years after similar skills got that treatment is just mind boggling.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    With Hornet sting with the cd passed from 8 to 15 seconds and the fusion of Monarch's Leap and Serpent's Strike it will be impossible to kite and escape with the right timing using the sword.
    Power Stab: For Anet, destroy is easier to repair.
    No one I remember ever required increased dps dagger skills, people only asked for the mechanic with ammunition.

    I agreed with anet with the nerfs that the ranger got in the last period, sickem and unlockable attacks were too strong .. even nerf to the automatic attack they saw me agree, but the rest is absolutely stupid, it reminds me when Anet destroyed Druid before the release of PoF, now the same thing, instead of eliminating Slbs they decided to hit melee weapons.