World Vs World ~Reborn

[XenesisII.1540]

You guys do understand that concept only affects the borderland map right? Where it's mostly 1v1 anyways, and the weakest team gets double teamed more often than the other two(because this game promotes beating up the weakest not the strongest for points), and only sometimes you might get the 3rd team involved on that map is if you have bay and hills getting hit at the same time, or some fight guild look for some 3 way action and not actually taking anything.

Not the entire matchup going 1v1, ebg is still there. Overall sides tend to defend ebg, defend home, there's barely enough people to occupy all 4 maps much even 3 or even 2 for some servers, even on a big server like BG who mostly just maintain a keep and tower on the enemy maps. Again this idea doesn't even require any changes to the maps, just take out the home team spawning on top of the map.

But anyways that's for the other thread.

[Acheron.4731]

Can someone provide Cliff's notes for me?p.s. please type large, I pulled one of my eyes out after trying to read the first post

[Dagger.2035]

Larger maps with more objectives seem like the wrong way to go. Smaller maps in PvP games tend to be more popular and feel more intense since it is easier to find fights and get back to the action.

I also don’t like the idea of adding more PvE to the maps, especially if it provides an advantage during fights. Maybe they can have different areas for different players. EB can remain as is for PvP. Maybe remove the outer gates to make it easier to have a battle royal in Stonemist castle.

Then more PvE elements could be added to the northern portion of the home borderlands. Especially the empty corners. This will allow PvE players to get their feet wet and fight bosses without affecting WvW gameplay.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@XenesisII.1540 said:You can complain about feedback about making suggestions, but the thing is if you're going to make suggestions at least make sure they're not over the top, but viable, worthwhile, take into account the amount of time and work anet would have to put into it, and how well received the change would be to wvw players given the past history of development.

Like asking to remove eotm is a pointless change, there's no actual benefit to removing it, just because no one uses it right now doesn't mean it might not be useful again in the future. Asking to poll whether or not to change your most popular map for another is a head scratcher, should we go back to asking to replace alpines with desert again too?

Asking to expand a map when frankly no one complains about the size of the current ones, and the complaints about mounts isn't even about moving around maps making them feel small, it's about getting people off them. Population is also decreasing lately, there's less people on maps overall all times of the day, there's actually too much space for most of the day, the maps are not full there's no point expanding them, there's actually space to add more stuff if needed. Actually I would even say ebg is more popular because it's has more objectives that are faster to reach than the borderlands, you can find action much faster, you'll find fights around smc much more than any other objective in the game.

This is actually why I think the other suggestion to turn the homebl maps into 1v1 maps was actually a decent and viable idea, it actually brings down the amount of maps for a side to play from 4 to 3 while still giving all 3 teams a chance to face each other, 2 maps on a 1v1 basis, and ebg for it's usual 3 way, while also taking away the homebl concept and opening the way to add more 3 way maps like eotm into a match if they need to go back to 4 maps, no changes are required for the maps other than having one less team spawn on borderlands while still having 3 way and focused 2 way fighting over maps.

We can also try to jam a bunch of rewards into wvw, but the bottom line is, people are not going to stay in wvv unless they learn to enjoy wvw game play and gw2 combat, those are the two biggest hurdles for pve players getting into wvw, not the rewards. You only have to take one look at the gift of battle complaints and know how much pve players hate being in wvw, just dumping more rewards into wvw isn't going to magically help it, it'll attract players, it might give them some long term goals, but if the game play isn't fun to them they won't stay, class and combat balance need to be addressed for this, and given the next balance preview, that ain't ever happening.

New wvw only legendary weapons cool..... now have you noticed how long it took for them to release the gen 2 legendary weapons? 4 years. Good luck getting anet to give out free skins, their art department is busy making black lion weapons, outfits, mounts, glider skins every month that they need to sell to keep gw2 afloat.

Mastery in every part of the game is fluff progression, not sure what else you're expecting, it's there to give players an extra goal to work on. Inspiring presence when people have been complaining about stuff like Presence of the keep buff for 4 years now? this is the part where you go back in history and think if this is something the players really want or not. Might want to come up with more than 2 suggestions if you want to demolish the current 22 lines of mastery. Again asking for a complete rework is a pointless change, no actual reason to drop the current mastery lines, just add more new ones.

I do agree some more objectives might be good to fill in some empty areas, but they need to be pvp focused, also the amount you want to add is way overboard. Ideas like caves and tunnels and jungle are ok, but not with how terrible the camera is in this game, fighting somewhere that's like auric basin is good, fighting somewhere like watergate at red keep in ebg is a kitten nightmare because of how low the ceiling is at the cave entrance.

Lastly, I disagree, class balance is on top of the list of importance for me, because if a person is not enjoying their class they won't play the game, period. A map like EBG while it is outdated, is still enjoyable on the class I enjoy playing, you can go to WoW and see people enjoying 13 year old battleground maps. Your class is what you're playing 100% of the time in the game, no matter what area or map of the game you're playing in. Class and combat need to always be the top things to balance and look after.

See I like alot of the feedback here, this is good. The issue with your last sentiment the only part I have an issue with is that Balance will never happen no matter how hard we labor to push them too it. You and I both know they lack the knowledge and needed skills to maintain balance, Because we do want new things for our classes or at least new classes in general right? I mean new toys to play with is good, so the moment another batch of E-specs comes out we are at it again but if they don't release them people get bored and move on. So its a Catch 22, damned if they do and damned if they don't~

I would love to put balance on my 100% top priority list but going based on the previous era's and incarnations of guild wars 2, I doubt it will ever happen and thus is a waste of effort. I could infact go ahead and balance their classes do the number tweaks, do the skill and mechanics fixes and people wouldn't like it and on the other-side A-net would ignore it. Many people have offered them really good and solid feedback, going so far as admitting their class is over-preforming and instead of listening to the players they outright ignore us.

I also agree with your sentiment about people not staying no matter how many rewards they offer, It was merely something for the existing players in the mode. Im not sure how to fix the getting people adjusted to it and liking it, from what I see and have witnessed the vast majority of the player base hates pvp of any kinda WvW or otherwise. So you won't ever get those people, its the same issue raids face more people hate them then those willing to try and enjoy them at least in the vastness that is our dwindling community.

All and all a good post, thank you.

[XenesisII.1540]

Well we can say balance will never happen, so no point to put it on the priority list (even now we tell them barriers and boons need nerfing and they do the opposite)... but it's wvw, 99% of all the other suggestions will never be heard, acknowledged, or implemented either. We've had 7 years of development, thousands of suggestions, and very few player made suggestions have actually made it into the game to date. All this is also a waste of time.

Balance still needs to be maintained and should still be the top priority even as little they've managed to do (and I don't even mean perfect balance I mean reasonable as in not letting spike damage get out of hand, not letting condi get easy dump while dealing high damage, not let stealth get out of hand), like too many broken skills/specs have had too much play time over the years. And class balance, we've had 2 expansions, multiple gear stats and 3 different class specs available, and yet some classes still can't be viable at solo or group play.

A newbie pve player walks into wvw to work on getting their shiny new unique wvw gear skin, gets ganked by a poison dump deadeye or one wolf pack rapid fire soulbeast in the first 5 mins, doubt they sticking around for 10 more weeks of that.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Well we can say balance will never happen, so no point to put it on the priority list (even now we tell them barriers and boons need nerfing and they do the opposite)... but it's wvw, 99% of all the other suggestions will never be heard, acknowledged, or implemented either. We've had 7 years of development, thousands of suggestions, and very few player made suggestions have actually made it into the game to date. All this is also a waste of time.

Balance still needs to be maintained and should still be the top priority even as little they've managed to do (and I don't even mean perfect balance I mean reasonable as in not letting spike damage get out of hand, not letting condi get easy dump while dealing high damage, not let stealth get out of hand), like too many broken skills/specs have had too much play time over the years. And class balance, we've had 2 expansions, multiple gear stats and 3 different class specs available, and yet some classes still can't be viable at solo or group play.

A newbie pve player walks into wvw to work on getting their shiny new unique wvw gear skin, gets ganked by a poison dump deadeye or one wolf pack rapid fire soulbeast in the first 5 mins, doubt they sticking around for 10 more weeks of that.

I agree completely with everything you just said, and I feel the same way .( I hate how over-tuned mirage and the thieves "E-specs" are.) But in reality I've stopped expecting anything from A-net on that field. Id rather them just add more E-specs that counter 100% of everything the others bring, and will rock them from here to kingdom come just by raw mechanics than trust them to "Rework" anything.

Because when they rework something they either low-ball it and remove EVERYTHING from it, or they throw it to the level of god-dom and we have the issues we have now. There is no medium or middle ground, they are very reactionary in balance and they are very quick to just clap a class (At core level) than look at the interactions to make any given spec "Op". Prime example is soul-beast, ranger and druid. Druid and Core ranged got diddled HARD and soul-beast didn't? Why? Well simple they nerfed the base damage of weapon skills, stripped Druid of a lot of what made it competitive and then left soul-beast with all its multipliers. So EVEN WITH the nerfs it received it still didn't get a proper nerf.

The only thing that happened was druid and Core were threw into the dumpster fire even further, which is why you only really see soul-beast. There are some druids but they build to sustain and be annoying rather than outright kill people. They hold you long enough for others to show up and then just get credit, they can't compete on an actual level. Same goes for Core of most classes; Their "E-specs" even with trade-offs just preform and behave better, and they offer way more tools and playthings to use and when one happens to be over-preforming they nerf the core apsects of the whole class and then push more people to what is broken.

Things that should of been fixed a long time ago include.

1. The removal of the mass amount of multipliers soul-beast gets, this could be done easily by making the multipliers from other trait-lines NOT stacking with the soul-beast benefits. Meaning that say Oh I don't know, "Sic'em" Doesn't effect the player because we've coded it so the game recoginizes that the player is not the pet.(Easy. but left undone. Rather they just nerfed sic'em.)
2. Scourges were sold as a support spec, they should not and never should of been capable of the devastating damage they are allowed to deal. Its ludicrous that a "Support" spec can do that level of carnage and sure the buff/nerf we recently got might fix it but something in my gut tells me I no. As Im already seeing them just continue their conquest and destroying people.
3. Firebrand is in the same boat as scourge. It should be a support orientated spec, Not a support +Tanky +Unkillable condi-machine. It shouldn't be getting to be this master of all trades we have now, thats broken as hell.
4. Spellbreakers still wreck people, but they are one of the few we have to go in and slap scourges and firebrands so I can't say to fix them until the other two are addressed.
5. Do we even need to talk about holosmiths?
6. Dead-eyes and mirages, same beast different colors but they have similar issues.

All of this should of been dealt with, and this has left the PoF specs as the dominate force and you see them more than the HoT specs outside of herald. The only reason you see heralds at all is because its revenants ONE useful E-spec because Renegade is trash for any sort of competitive gameplay, Im sure if Renegade had tools to stand in like the other specs they would be more numerous than herald. (Both of these specs are support orientated specs, that deal damage and act more dps buffs than support. Another problem.)

The issue really stems from A-net being UNWILLING to actually enforce the role they designed the spec for, they believe everything must be dps and capable of mass dps and spam aoe's all day long. This will not ever change and I doubt it will get better, which is why I don't even touch balance in this thread and won't touch it because all Ill do is get suspended for getting heated. (Probs gonna happen for this response, more than likely.)

There is also class bias... but thats been a thing since Gw1 so nothing new there....

[XenesisII.1540]

Indeed, it's very tiresome to see them deal with extremes so much. It's like they operate with no guidelines either like for instance...

The skill "Sic 'Em!" is providing a damage modifier that is significantly higher than any other single persistent bonus damage increase, so we're reducing the bonus to match other similar skills in a competitive setting."Sic 'Em!": Reduced the bonus damage applied to a merged soulbeast from 40% to 25% in PvP and WvW only. Damage bonus for pets remains unchanged.

Two and a half months later...

Warrior's Cunning: This new trait increases damage by 25% against foes with health above 90%. Additionally, it increases damage by 50% against foes that have barrier. These bonuses do not stack.

SMH like wtf...

2. Scourges were sold as a support spec, they should not and never should of been capable of the devastating damage they are allowed to deal. Its ludicrous that a "Support" spec can do that level of carnage and sure the buff/nerf we recently got might fix it but something in my gut tells me I no. As Im already seeing them just continue their conquest and destroying people.

Honestly the day I played the open beta for PoF I thought the barrier should have been given to engineers as their thing to get them into group play, not scourges, as they already filled an important role for damage and corruption. Only reason I think they got the barrier was to make up for being out of shroud now compared to core and reaper, but that obviously could have been handled differently like they're doing now with the death magic revamp.

But yeah they made major mistakes giving over so much to scourges and firebrands, they were already essential parts of the meta since the beginning of the game.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Indeed, it's very tiresome to see them deal with extremes so much. It's like they operate with no guidelines either like for instance...

The skill "Sic 'Em!" is

providing a damage modifier that is significantly higher than any other single persistent bonus damage increase

, so we're reducing the bonus to match other similar skills in a competitive setting."Sic 'Em!": Reduced the bonus damage applied to a merged soulbeast from 40% to 25% in PvP and WvW only. Damage bonus for pets remains unchanged.

Two and a half months later...

Warrior's Cunning: This new trait increases damage by 25% against foes with health above 90%. Additionally, it

increases damage by 50% against foes that have barrier

. These bonuses do not stack.

SMH like kitten...

2. Scourges were sold as a support spec, they should not and never should of been capable of the devastating damage they are allowed to deal. Its ludicrous that a "Support" spec can do that level of carnage and sure the buff/nerf we recently got might fix it but something in my gut tells me I no. As Im already seeing them just continue their conquest and destroying people.

Honestly the day I played the open beta for PoF I thought the barrier should have been given to engineers as their thing to get them into group play, not scourges, as they already filled an important role for damage and corruption. Only reason I think they got the barrier was to make up for being out of shroud now compared to core and reaper, but that obviously could have been handled differently like they're doing now with the death magic revamp.

But yeah they made major mistakes giving over so much to scourges and firebrands, they were already essential parts of the meta since the beginning of the game.

I feel like the death-magic change really didn't do squat honestly. It feels even more cumbersome and the new "Deaths Carapace" Does nothing for your build, I tried to make it work and it feels horrible another pointless rework that just threw another traitline down the gutter. Saddest part is scourges and Firebrands will never be removed from required in WvW unless they get a hard rework and dedicated to support which we know will never happen.

With them as they are, and dead-eyes, daredevils and mirages as well holo's as they are balance won't matter. I feel like you're correct they have no guidelines and often just do knee jerk reactions to our feedback and basically do the "Fine, im taking my ball and going home."