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Poll: Build Templates


Mrs Lana.2506

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So yeah, I'm one of those pesky GW1 players who is going to point at GW1 and go this was free. ^^ However given I selected Other in the Poll I'm going to expand on why I chose it.

I'll split this into 2 halves. Build Templates then Gear Templates.

To be blunt the "Build Templates" which uses traits, they should be Free and Unlimited in my opinion. All I see looking at its current implementation is a cloud service that’s charging me to store roughly 30 byte string files. Which also won't let me load file via the game, i.e. the GW1 Method. Instead I must open a file copy the string and paste it. Now I'm not stupid, implementing this into the game obviously wasn't straight forward and took effort, however given the nature of builds I can't really see why you would charge for this specific feature. Maybe if you compromise and let things like Arc automate the copy paste from file aspect of it I won’t be so bothered, however I highly doubt this will happen either.

Now “Gear Templates” I can certainly see why you would monetize this and I certainly have no real issue with that, HOWEVER per character we have 2 slots, not per game type, 2 slots altogether, for both PvE and WvW (I won’t touch sPvP because that’s different).Now let’s just talk about PvE, more specifically let’s pick 1 aspect of PvE that’s going to probably utilise this the most that being Raids (I am aware EVERY mode will be able to utilise this but its easier to present my example using Raids).When entering a Raid there are usually 3 Roles a player will take, Offence, Defence or Support. Each of which can be broken down into more builds Offence into Power and Condition Damage for example, Support into Healing / Boons / Buffs. This is already pushing us over the 2 default slots we get.What’s more it’s also preventing us from having more than 1 set-up dedicated to 1 aspect of the game. I can’t have an open world setup, a raid setup and a WvW setup, without buying extra character specific slots. I am limited to either, a PvE setup and a WvW setup, or 2 setups dedicated to just 1 game mode.There is the reasonable argument of well just make an alt for each game mode, to an extent I agree with this, however just by giving players access to 3 Gear templates you eliminate most of the issue, especially when you consider some players will have at least 1 of every profession and will use some of them only in specific game modes.

I feel in this case 3 really is the magic number, on mode specific characters it lets you cover the 3 basic roles they might face, even if we go WvW specific and go say; Zerg, Roaming, Scout. On Jack of all trade characters it can be “Generic, Instanced and WvW”. It’s a better midground than 2 which is very quickly going to pressure a player towards the Gem Store on a per character basis potentially.My suggestion therefore would be to give us 3 Gear Slots per character by default if we are not on a Free To Play account, even going so far as to say that it might even be worth considering making it 4, that however would need more weighing up in relation to the value of a character slot itself.Hopefully my argument sounds pretty reasonable, it’s a lot to read after all xD.

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We need to quit trying to compare GW2 to GW - they are completely different games (similar story, new code). If we want everything from GW... where are my Heroes?!
Sorry, does not work that way. The valid complaint might be against getting rid of Arc. But quite frankly I am surprised they ever allowed a 3rd party hack to begin with.

They are giving us 6 for free, which will be enough for a majority of players. It seems to be WvW folks more upset... but according other posts here... WvW is almost empty... so there must not be many affected?

It is a quality of life improvement, and I am surprised they are giving 6 for free. Would you rather have it locked behind an expansion? :)

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@Ashantara.8731 said:This poll would have made more sense if done after the release of the feature. ;)

Yeah, I still have a lot of questions that would best be answered after the release of the feature and was not clear in the demo we got (part is my bad, I had things to do so skipped around the vid). For example, if extra gear will not have to be kept in inventory anymore it would be worth it. Not as much as a character slot if that is what is being discussed, but I would free up all those slots that now hold extra armor and weapons.

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@perilisk.1874 said:Insofar as the gear templates actually store the gear, and constitute free inventory slots, basically, there's no way they were ever going to be free and I'm fine with it.

They will store the gear rather than have to pull it from inventory? Take my $$ anet!! I would GLADLY pay, unless it gets too unreasonable (maybe 100 max each, the cost of a character slot is unreasonable). Quite a few more bonus points if the item templates are account based and they make all our souldbound stuff accountbound.

Not sure why they are charging for build templates though. It is convenience, yes, but it just saves you from selecting things, no item storage is saved.

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@"Ototo.3214" said:Came back to read some responses and I see people saying these will somehow make legendary gear clunky or won't stat swap quickly and I'm genuinely confused how they came to that conclusion...?

"Equipment Templates can also record the customization of legendary items, which can freely change attributes and upgrades. You can equip a single legendary item to multiple Equipment Templates with different attributes and upgrade choices for each."Did they miss this? ^Each different legendary setting will require a separate gear tab. Which means it will be functionally the same as having a separate ascended set for that tab - except the escended option will be cheaper.And remember, that you can have at best 6 of those tabs.

@Tukaram.8256 said:Would you rather have it locked behind an expansion? :)Yes. It would have been cheaper.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Ototo.3214" said:Came back to read some responses and I see people saying these will somehow make legendary gear clunky or won't stat swap quickly and I'm genuinely confused how they came to that conclusion...?

"Equipment Templates can also record the customization of legendary items, which can freely change attributes and upgrades. You can equip a single legendary item to multiple Equipment Templates with different attributes and upgrade choices for each."Did they miss this? ^Each different legendary setting will require a separate gear tab. Which means it will be functionally the same as having a separate ascended set for that tab - except the escended option will be cheaper.And remember, that you can have at best 6 of those tabs.

@Tukaram.8256 said:Would you rather have it locked behind an expansion? :)Yes. It would have been cheaper.

Have they announced the price? This whole thing seems a bit premature :)

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Imo per single profession, every next slot you buy have to be much cheaper. Yes you heard me right. Atm a lot of casuals (no offence) shouting 'i like it, i get a free slot'. Ye ofc, much of those don't know more then 'i have condi set and power set'. Deal done, for them it's a free advantage to QoL. However for power users like me i'm like why even start on the 1-3 free slots, when i potentially need 6-10 (pve), 6-15 for pvp, and so on? Ifi exagerrate (and because of the freedom in gw1 i did), i would need atm 70-180 build templates. Price of it? I don't even wanna hear it. Even if i somehow manage 30 slots, what point of them if any extending futher cost so much or i would have to manually select trait changes to offset the to extensive push to 180 build templates? Mind you power vs condi: Everything is different, skills, traits, weapons sigils. So for that template has 100% use. But then i have a banner variant and normal variant of both power war and condi war. Sorry but that extra template has much less value then the first. But not having it would kill the purpose of build tempaltes: a never ending always available gear customization switch. If it's ending, it means it's not a true QoL and you still need manual change. But then in pvp, i have a lot of build wich chance 1-4 traits, 0-3 skills. Yes i can do it manually. But gw1 had the option of not, and sometimes i click yes at start of game without thinking 'shit i should have switched', so QoL would be good.

But again: Pvp switching is actually easier, so for me a pvp 'kind of build template' is worth a lot less then pvp.

My honest conclusion atm is: to not use them even if they come. I cleverly invested in lot of char slots, and they actually work as build templates. Why pay not 'again' extra? nah no thanks. But it's certainly a pain for classes like guardian, mesmer who need tons of builds.

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On paper it sounds fine as it is really.I dont see the issue with them giving a few for free to start with and having to pay for extra ones.

Ive played other games that give you like a single template or two maybe then start charging you which is really limited anet is offering to give more than that to start with from what i understand.

I mean i guess it just depends i think if its a matter of slots which hold your gear which are like extra bag slots ideally yes i an see some cost behind those.If its just a template that you hit a save button for your traits and or to load the setup from then maybe a bit less. i mean what if they end up being like 300-400 gems thats not alot of gems in gold really.Most people who have more thane 5-6 builds across multiple decked out characters can probably realisticly afford to buy more slots without spending real cash.

We just need to wait and see what price points anet is looking at.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:If its just a template that you hit a save button for your traits and or to load the setup from then maybe a bit less. i mean what if they end up being like 300-400 gems thats not alot of gems in gold really.Most people who have more thane 5-6 builds across multiple decked out characters can probably realisticly afford to buy more slots without spending real cash.At 400 gems per unlock rate (the lowest i expect), I would be looking at ~15k gold or 500 euro investment (that's not full unlock for me, only an estimation of actual needs). Half of that for gear templates (that cannot be circumvented by linking chat codes) alone.Please, do tell me how realistic is that.I mean, even 1/10 of that would buy me an expansion.

By the way, that basically means that even the low cost of 50 gems per unlock would already be quite steep. Anet's basically trying to sell a single of many expansion features for the cost of a whole expac (or rather for a cost that is much greater than cost of a whole expac). And people still think i shouldn't complain.

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@Randulf.7614 said:Community for 7 years: Give us build templates - you can even monetise it with extra slots through the gemstore!Anet for 5 years: talk to the handDeltaConnect: Hey GW2 community, with my time and effort I made build templates. for all of you. for fully free. unlimited.Community: OMG TYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAnet: this addon technically oversteps a few boundaries, but since everyone loves it, it prevents people from continuously pestering us about it, and right now we arent deep in desperation mode anyway, we'll be magnanimous and let it slipAnet 1 year later: holy fuck, the studio is in shambles, layoffs, cancelled projects, the playerbase is on a steep downturn, 2 out of 3 game modes are neglected and nearly moribund, balance is as bad as it's ever been, people demanding a fully fledged expac and all we have to show is a tiny, minuscule piece of LS, and we'r hurting badly for money....good lord, what can we do,what can we do ...wait.....Anet now: We told you this LS would have expac-like features, so we have decided to shut down the addon we previously gave a pass and that you all were enjoying up till now, to release our own version where you'll get a minimal fraction of what you were getting for free, and then have to pay a pretty penny. also please dont focus too much on the fact that the content we are presenting as new now is something that was already done by third parties years ago.Community: since we are brainless cows with no self-respect that sounds perfectly reasonable. please milk us harder

ftfy

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:If its just a template that you hit a save button for your traits and or to load the setup from then maybe a bit less. i mean what if they end up being like 300-400 gems thats not alot of gems in gold really.Most people who have more thane 5-6 builds across multiple decked out characters can probably realisticly afford to buy more slots without spending real cash.At 400 gems per unlock rate (the lowest i expect), I would be looking at ~15k gold or 500 euro investment (that's not
full
unlock for me, only an estimation of actual needs). Half of that for gear templates (that cannot be circumvented by linking chat codes) alone.Please, do tell me how realistic is that.I mean, even 1/10 of that would buy me an expansion.

How many legendaries do you have?Any legendary armor?How much gold have you spent on these things in total?

Depending on your answers to the questions above 15k gold is still alot but not un feasible. Do you really need every single build in your head right now? No you can only play 1 at a time. Start by loading up your most common builds and go from there. If you need more then work for more just as one would work for a legendary.

I simply threw out a thought experiment with the idea that people who probably need that many build slots probably have more than enough gold to buy extra layouts depending on the cost which is still not confirmed. If you are some one who has 16 or 20 or even more than 24 builds across multiple characters I'm thinking you are probably not broke in game even so it gives you something to work towards if you dont want to spend real money. 15k gold broken up over time depending on how much you play can be gathered pretty reasonably im a super casual player and saved 2.3k gold in just about 2-3 months someone who is much more active than me (completes all raids per week, is super heavily active in pvp and wvw, does fractals daily, dabbles in the TP market, Farms????) can probably do much much better.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:Depending on your answers to the questions above 15k gold is still alot but not un feasible. Do you really need every single build in your head right now?No, but the above's just for gear i already have, not for stuff i have considered or might consider...

And that doesn't even include any new characters i might make in the future...

Besides, that's 15k for a single feature. It assumes i won't be spending gold for anything else. For years. Also, do you really think that, once they have started, they won't add more such monetized features in the future?

I did also notice you have ignored my comparison of this to price of an expansion - because it's extremely hard to defend that one, isn't it.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:Depending on your answers to the questions above 15k gold is still alot but not un feasible. Do you really need every single build in your head right now?No, but the above's just for gear i already have, not for stuff i have considered or might consider...

And that doesn't even include any new characters i might make in the future...Which requires additional character slots, which requires more gems, which then requires more gold to fund those characters. Do you not want to pay for this too or should anet just give you unlimited free character slots as well? This is what i dont understand.

Besides, that's 15k for a
single feature
. It assumes i won't be spending gold for anything else. For years. Also, do you really think that, once they have started, they won't add more such monetized features in the future?

Well you dont need to buy them all at once. You assumed you would do such a thing which is your choice to do. It would not be wise to buy all of them at once which most people would not do unless they had well over the amount it would cost to do so. If you have that much gold 15k gold is not a bother to you. Im struggling to understand your logic here so if you can make it clearer for me please feel free.The way i see it is that If you have enough to buy them all at once with the idea "ill just get them all now" which is what you assumed by totaling up an estaminet of 15k.

Then 15k gold is not an issue for you. IF it is a problem for you then you would do what any other person would do use whats given to you for free and then make adjustments after the fact.

I did also notice you have ignored my comparison of this to price of an expansion - because it's extremely hard to defend that one, isn't it.

Because the price of an expansion is not relevant to this conversation thats what people dont understand if anything its worse to even suggest it.

If anet introduces this feature with an x pack which you know wouldnt be for at least another year possibly year and a half and they do it like so.Guild Wars 2: "catchy title here" (awesome sauce!!! 40-60$ in 2019 maybe 29-39$ if they do a promotional "buy it early" kinda deal)New features - build templates (neat)Lets assume with the same format as what they are presenting now 3-6 for free (neat)and any extra after that still cost gems. ( Additional cost ontop of an xpack)

Now not only will you not have the feature if you dont buy the x pack unlocked (which now people complain about the feature being locked behind a paywall)you also still have to spend more money anyways to get the extra slots you so desire.Which results in the cost being more than "Just an x pack"

Note because you kept assuming the worst with my statements i assumed the worst situation with yours. Its only fair for a full true thought comparison.You cant be sure that even if the feature came with an x pack that it will be flawless and that you still wont have to pay to maximize that feature as a full luxury.

Mounts are proof of this as they had in game gold cost and mount skins cost gems which are by no means "required" for you to have but its a luxury thing.

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For me it kinda depends on whether or not the equipment templates purchases are acc bound or character bound. Like if I buy an extra one on one character does it unlock for all. If the answer is yes it unlocks for all then I'm fine with it. If it character bound then it's gonna be a but less for me. But thats personal. I have several characters that can use more then 2 equipment templates so if its charactert bound then thats gonna be very expensive for me. Dunno if I'm willing to do that then.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:Depending on your answers to the questions above 15k gold is still alot but not un feasible. Do you really need every single build in your head right now?No, but the above's just for gear i already have, not for stuff i have considered or might consider...

And that doesn't even include any new characters i might make in the future...Which requires additional character slots, which requires more gems, which then requires more gold to fund those characters. Do you not want to pay for this too or should anet just give you unlimited free character slots as well? This is what i dont understand.I wonder how did you get from me saying "15k for a single feature is way too expensive" to "single character slot is too expensive"?

Besides, that's 15k for a
single feature
. It assumes i won't be spending gold for anything else. For years. Many years (more than this game has left). Also, do you really think that, once they have started, they won't add more such monetized features in the future?

Well you dont need to buy them all at once. You assumed you would do such a thing which is your choice to do. It would not be wise to buy all of them at once which most people would not do unless they had well over the amount it would cost to do so. If you have that much gold 15k gold is not a bother to you. Im struggling to understand your logic here so if you can make it clearer for me please feel free.And i am struggling to understand logic in which 15k is considered "a lot but not unfeasible". I mean seriously, if you said 2k i might agree (Although it would still be a tad pricey for such a feature), but
15k
? I am a semi casual player, not a TP baron...

The way i see it is that If you have enough to buy them all at once with the idea "ill just get them all now" which is what you assumed by totaling up an estaminet of 15k.

Then 15k gold is not an issue for you. IF it is a problem for you then you would do what any other person would do use whats given to you for free and then make adjustments after the fact.I have made adjustments after the fact. The adjustment was "this thing is soo way overpriced, and way beyond my reach, there's no way i will spend even a dime on it".

I did also notice you have ignored my comparison of this to price of an expansion - because it's extremely hard to defend that one, isn't it.

Because the price of an expansion is not relevant to this conversation thats what people dont understand if anything its worse to even suggest it.Figured you'd say that. Because if you were to actually respond to it, having a single expansion feature cost as much as 10 expansions would be ridiculous.

If anet introduces this feature with an x pack which you know wouldnt be for at least another year possibly year and a half and they do it like so.
Guild Wars 2: "catchy title here"
(awesome sauce!!! 40-60$ in 2019 maybe 29-39$ if they do a promotional "buy it early" kinda deal)New features - build templates (neat)Lets assume with the same format as what they are presenting now 3-6 for free (neat)and any extra after that still cost gems. ( Additional cost ontop of an xpack)...an expansion feature that needs to be bought separately from an expac, at a cost 10 times greater that said expac. And you think that's perfectly okay. Yeah, i'm done, you're not even making sense now.
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I'm fine with the announced system (slightly depending on cost, but if it is 400 gems or less to keep it in line with bag slots that works for me). However, what would make me happy with it would be having account wide unlocks of individual character tabs. Ie, you have three slots, you buy a fourth, now -all- your alts forever have four. That would even make it reasonable to raise the tab price somewhat.

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@"Ashen.2907" said:I am genuinely surprised that the totally free option doesnt outpace all others in the poll. The, "The product of others' labor should be given to me for free," entitlement mentality isnt as dominant as I thought.I bet most of the people voting for that option won't be paying for it, since they won't be using it all that much anyway. It's interesting comparing the opinions with the "how many builds you have on your main character" poll. Especially seeing how the position on the issue usually correlates with the number of builds.

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