Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Drop of Visage of the Khan-Ur was doubled ¿Is that a joke?


Recommended Posts

But guys!Just look at the reward you can get after finishing the collection. Metal Legion T-shirt!!! Item worth ... let me see ... 5g + 200 hatched chilis at npc merchant ? or completely free as a reward from wvw/pvp reward track?Something's really wrong with that collection. It's called 'Merchantise...'. Trying to aquire an item available once per day by doing 4 time consuming metas has nothing to do with merchantise at all (even not considering ridiculous drop rate). Unless we call buying/selling via TP merchantise.

Btw. I wonder how many weapons (Bloodletter, Flamewalker, ashfall, ironsight bolt thrower) which are being sold on TP come from "Recovered" Charr Artifacts, and how many from pvp/wvw tracks?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 162
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@"banshee.9328" said:But guys!Just look at the reward you can get after finishing the collection. Metal Legion T-shirt!!! Item worth ... let me see ... 5g + 200 hatched chilis at npc merchant ? or completely free as a reward from wvw/pvp reward track?Something's really wrong with that collection. It's called 'Merchantise...'. Trying to aquire an item available once per day by doing 4 time consuming metas has nothing to do with merchantise at all (even not considering ridiculous drop rate). Unless we call buying/selling via TP merchantise.

Btw. I wonder how many weapons (Bloodletter, Flamewalker, ashfall, ironsight bolt thrower) which are being sold on TP come from "Recovered" Charr Artifacts, and how many from pvp/wvw tracks?

Read the blue tool tip for the collection to understand why the reward is a t-shirt.

The metas are not time consuming. They all take about 7 min except for the Iron Legion one which takes around 16 min. Players also have the option to purchase the keys which remove the new to do the metas. Like everything else in the game, it’s fast more efficient to just farm the gold. The chests from map completion and the vault also appear to randomly give a key. So you only really need to do three metas per day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The metas are not time consuming. They all take about 7 min except for the Iron Legion one which takes around 16 min. Players also have the option to purchase the keys which remove the new to do the metas. Like everything else in the game, it’s fast more efficient to just farm the gold. The chests from map completion and the vault also appear to randomly give a key. So you only really need to do three metas per day.

So 7+7+7+16=37 minutes. If you come just in time of course. And I get 4 keys. For what? What is the reward for your time? With the current drop rate faster one gets money from selling keys and buys visage than gets an item from vault.Are keys the reward or treasure inside the vault?FYI: 7 visages up to date dropped from Charr Artifact according to GW2eff. You can add 1 or 2 to if any non registered lucky guy got it.Is there any point doing metas after finishing the achievements? There is one. WP just before Ash one starts. Do it. Sell key. Repeat until people realise it is worthless and price go down to 1s. Kappa.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@banshee.9328 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The metas are not time consuming. They all take about 7 min except for the Iron Legion one which takes around 16 min. Players also have the option to purchase the keys which remove the new to do the metas. Like everything else in the game, it’s fast more efficient to just farm the gold. The chests from map completion and the vault also appear to randomly give a key. So you only really need to do three metas per day.

So 7+7+7+16=37 minutes. If you come just in time of course. And I get 4 keys. For what? What is the reward for your time? With the current drop rate faster one gets money from selling keys and buys visage than gets an item from vault.Are keys the reward or treasure inside the vault?FYI: 7 visages up to date dropped from Charr Artifact according to GW2eff. You can add 1 or 2 to if any non registered lucky guy got it.Is there any point doing metas after finishing the achievements? There is one. WP just before Ash one starts. Do it. Sell key. Repeat until people realise it is worthless and price go down to 1s. Kappa.

And you spend about as much time on some other metas in the game (e.g. DS, DF). I also noted in my post that you could simply buy the keys and that the chest gives a random one.

GW2efficency isn’t a reliable source as it isn’t representative of the population. Plenty of players here made that point to me over a year ago when I was using it like you are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:GW2efficency isn’t a reliable source as it isn’t representative of the population. Plenty of players here made that point to me over a year ago when I was using it like you are.

It is actually representative of the population interested in achievement hunting, those that would actually farm the meta events for multiple days in order to get those items. About 80% of the players at the 35k AP Range have a gw2eff account. And a rough estimate of 11% (using those with 5k AP) up to 18% (using Hellfire/Radiant Vembrace acquisition) in the top 10% of the game, which is by the way only at 2.7k AP at the moment. 2.7k AP is nothing.

So it depends how "representative" of a population is a number between 10% and 20%

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not asking about getting keys. I am asking about reason for getting them. For now it's just waste of time if you do meta or money if you buy them.Problem is vault, it is unrewarding. You get more while doing anything in this game.

Gw2eff gathers data from over 200k players atm. If you do not trust values, look gw2bltc, gw2tp etc. Just check availibility. With current buy price almost noone would hoard it or acc bind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:I was told we only need 1 visage to unlock all 3

This doesn't seem to be the case, as the number of accounts that have unlocked the three different weights on efficiency is not equal . . .

@SinisterSlay.6973 said:I love release day drop rates. Means you can play normally, sell everything you get for big money. Come back a month later and buy them back for a huge discount and get the achievement

In general I would agree, this is a smart tactic. This issue here is getting it to drop so you can sell it in the first place ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:GW2efficency isn’t a reliable source as it isn’t representative of the population. Plenty of players here made that point to me over a year ago when I was using it like you are.

It is actually representative of the population interested in achievement hunting, those that would actually farm the meta events for multiple days in order to get those items. About 80% of the players at the 35k AP Range have a gw2eff account. And a rough estimate of 11% (using those with 5k AP) up to 18% (using Hellfire/Radiant Vembrace acquisition) in the top 10% of the game, which is by the way only at 2.7k AP at the moment. 2.7k AP is nothing.

So it depends how "representative" of a population is a number between 10% and 20%

It’s representative of that subset of players. The person I responded to was using that to infer across the entire player population.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@mortrialus.3062 said:

Do you really need everything to enjoy the game?

Do you enjoy with impossible achievements?

It's not impossible. It's just put of most people's reach. Which is what most achievements SHOULD be.

Wow, most achievements totally out of my reach. Yeah, that's why I play a game - to have things dangled in front of me that I'll never get. Isn't that why everyone plays? (Sarcasm font off)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@banshee.9328 said:I am not asking about getting keys. I am asking about reason for getting them. For now it's just waste of time if you do meta or money if you buy them.Problem is vault, it is unrewarding. You get more while doing anything in this game.

The same can be said about any meta that isn’t DF. A year or so ago you could’ve said the same about any meta that wasn’t Istan. They did add additional rewards to the vault chest. But yeah, it’s not going to be as rewards as other areas of the game such as gold farming.

Gw2eff gathers data from over 200k players atm. If you do not trust values, look gw2bltc, gw2tp etc. Just check availibility. With current buy price almost noone would hoard it or acc bind.

It’s whether those 200K accounts are representative of the entire player population.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@banshee.9328 said:I am not asking about getting keys. I am asking about reason for getting them. For now it's just waste of time if you do meta or money if you buy them.Problem is vault, it is unrewarding. You get more while doing anything in this game.

The same can be said about any meta that isn’t DF. A year or so ago you could’ve said the same about any meta that wasn’t Istan. They did add additional rewards to the vault chest. But yeah, it’s not going to be as rewards as other areas of the game such as gold farming.

Gw2eff gathers data from over 200k players atm. If you do not trust values, look gw2bltc, gw2tp etc. Just check availibility. With current buy price almost noone would hoard it or acc bind.

It’s whether those 200K
accounts
are representative of the entire player population.

Estimate your income from vault. Compare to any HoT meta or even Tequatl.

And as I stated before if you dont trust gw2eff you can add 1 or 2 to overall number of visage drops. Well you can even add 10 it doesnt change anything. Or just observe supply moves on gw2tp or gw2bltc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@banshee.9328 said:

@banshee.9328 said:I am not asking about getting keys. I am asking about reason for getting them. For now it's just waste of time if you do meta or money if you buy them.Problem is vault, it is unrewarding. You get more while doing anything in this game.

The same can be said about any meta that isn’t DF. A year or so ago you could’ve said the same about any meta that wasn’t Istan. They did add additional rewards to the vault chest. But yeah, it’s not going to be as rewards as other areas of the game such as gold farming.

Gw2eff gathers data from over 200k players atm. If you do not trust values, look gw2bltc, gw2tp etc. Just check availibility. With current buy price almost noone would hoard it or acc bind.

It’s whether those 200K
accounts
are representative of the entire player population.

Estimate your income from vault. Compare to any HoT meta or even Tequatl.

I already told you that it wasn’t going to be as rewarding as other metas and Anet hasn’t been consistent with this.

And as I stated before if you dont trust gw2eff you can add 1 or 2 to overall number of visage drops. Well you can even add 10 it doesnt change anything. Or just observe supply moves on gw2tp or gw2bltc.

Arbitrarily modifying the results on gw2eff doesn’t make it any more reliable. You have no way of knowing that those who are doing the metas or buying keys use gw2eff. The number of unlocks shown could very well be a small percentage of the actual unlocks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Witch of Doom.5739 said:

Do you really need everything to enjoy the game?

Do you enjoy with impossible achievements?

It's not impossible. It's just put of most people's reach. Which is what most achievements SHOULD be.

Wow, most achievements totally out of my reach. Yeah, that's why I play a game - to have things dangled in front of me that I'll never get. Isn't that why everyone plays? (Sarcasm font off)

It's too bad this is literally the only achievement they ever added to the game and there isn't a spectrum of achievements across the game of a variety of difficulties.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Arbitrarily modifying the results on gw2eff doesn’t make it any more reliable. You have no way of knowing that those who are doing the metas or buying keys use gw2eff. The number of unlocks shown could very well be a small percentage of the actual unlocks.If you had relatively more drops than gw2eff is showing, you could observe some movement on TP. At least minimal. It represents whole population. Of course you can say that many ppl may wish to take skin for theirselves and don't put it on TP. But seriously, just look at prices on TP. Do you believe there is noone wishing to get instant 5000g?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@banshee.9328 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Arbitrarily modifying the results on gw2eff doesn’t make it any more reliable. You have no way of knowing that those who are doing the metas or buying keys use gw2eff. The number of unlocks shown could very well be a small percentage of the actual unlocks.If you had relatively more drops than gw2eff is showing, you could observe some movement on TP. At least minimal. It represents whole population. Of course you can say that many ppl may wish to take skin for theirselves and don't put it on TP. But seriously, just look at prices on TP. Do you believe there is
noone
wishing to get instant 5000g?

You’re assuming that players check the price before using it or are aware that it has a high price. If they did sell, it could have been to buy orders so you wouldn’t see the supply every increase.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Bandido.8719" said:

Do you really need everything to enjoy the game?

Do you enjoy with impossible achievements?

It's not impossible. It's just put of most people's reach. Which is what most achievements SHOULD be.

Wow, most achievements totally out of my reach. Yeah, that's why I play a game - to have things dangled in front of me that I'll never get. Isn't that why everyone plays? (Sarcasm font off)

It's too bad this is literally the only achievement they ever added to the game and there isn't a spectrum of achievements across the game of a variety of difficulties.

What part of "sarcasm" is not clear? But I will say that there are many achievements via collections that are impossible for me, also ones that require a certain amount of dexterity because my hands sometimes shake. Yes, I know I can't have every game achievement quickly and easily, but it is discouraging to know that so many are literally impossible. Not wasting sleep (or money) over it, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ayrilana.1396 said:It’s whether those 200K accounts are representative of the entire player population.

As I said, they are about the 10% to 20% of the players that play this game and are eligible to get the Visage. The entire player population won't be farming this meta given how the majority of the game's accounts doesn't even have access to Bound by Blood. A great number is also banned because they were gold sellers.

In order to -try- to get the Visage you must have at least one level 80 character, to play in the zone properly. Having finished the episode is a must too (or at least the first instance), it includes acquisition of both expansions (now that Heart of Thorns is bundled with Path of Fire) . You are gonna tell me now, that there is a player out there that is farming this meta for this specific item, even though they have two full expansions and a complete core game to play? I find that really unlikely, those that are bothered with that are finished with the rest of the game.

So yes the gw2efficiency are very much representative of the population that dropped the Visages. Also, as I said 80% of the game's population in the 35k AP range have a gw2efficiency account. I'm willing to bet that those achievement hunters run the meta more times than the rest of the playerbase combined.

Edit: Arenanet told us there 11 million accounts. Using the official leaderboards you can see that 10% of the accounts have 2.7k AP+, which means 1.1 million accounts. 2.7k AP is literally nothing, especially for owners of both expansions. You will get more than that if you casually finish the core game and the 2 expansions (and maybe a couple of ls episodes) provided you don't do any dailies. If you include dailies, you need just 270 days to reach that point with dailies alone...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Arbitrarily modifying the results on gw2eff doesn’t make it any more reliable. You have no way of knowing that those who are doing the metas or buying keys use gw2eff. The number of unlocks shown could very well be a small percentage of the actual unlocks.If you had relatively more drops than gw2eff is showing, you could observe some movement on TP. At least minimal. It represents whole population. Of course you can say that many ppl may wish to take skin for theirselves and don't put it on TP. But seriously, just look at prices on TP. Do you believe there is
noone
wishing to get instant 5000g?

You’re assuming that players check the price before using it or are aware that it has a high price. If they did sell, it could have been to buy orders so you wouldn’t see the supply every increase.

And you see number of buy orders going down?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:It’s whether those 200K
accounts
are representative of the entire player population.

As I said, they are about the 10% to 20% of the players that
play
this game and are eligible to get the Visage. The entire player population won't be farming this meta given how the majority of the game's accounts doesn't even have access to Bound by Blood. A great number is also banned because they were gold sellers.

And you’re basing this on what? GW2Efficiency data?

In order to -try- to get the Visage you must have at least one level 80 character, to play in the zone properly. Having finished the episode is a must too (or at least the first instance), it includes acquisition of both expansions (now that Heart of Thorns is bundled with Path of Fire) . You are gonna tell me now, that there is a player out there that is farming this meta for this specific item, even though they have two full expansions and a complete core game to play? I find that really unlikely, those that are bothered with that are finished with the rest of the game.

Yes, those subset of players you described will likely not play. You have no idea what percentage of the population those players are.

So yes the gw2efficiency are very much representative of the population that dropped the Visages. Also, as I said 80% of the game's population in the 35k AP range have a gw2efficiency account. I'm willing to bet that those achievement hunters run the meta more times than the rest of the playerbase combined.

You have no way of knowing if it’s representative. It’s not just AP hunters that farm metas. The AP hunters are not representative of the rest of the player population.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guild Wars 2 has always had a problem with rare high-value drops and their particular drop rates. To give you an example, I've played for 7 years and I think I've only received 2, maybe three, legendary precursors from drops.

Now, infusions are a whole other ball game with how massively expensive they can become, they're even rarer than precursors imo. If you get even a moderatly desirable infusion, it can approach the cost of a fully built legendary or even surpass it. And it's just one item! I'm glad that these pseudo Lottery items exist and I'm glad that they're worth something, they're just so infrequently accessed that it's more of a reminder of how this games rewards structure are so disparate.

Sure, they're basically just a cosmetic item with a slight attribute bonus, but it's all about the appearance here. For an item to have basically no functional capacity Beyond its appearance, sure it sucks that it doesn't drop more often, but I'm not very keen on loot rewards the way they currently exist, especially with how infrequently some drop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ayrilana.1396 said:And you’re basing this on what? GW2Efficiency data?

A mix of gw2efficiency and the official leaderboards. Arenanet told us we have 11 million accounts We know from the official leaderboards that to get to the top 10% you need only 2.7k AP. Do note than I'm on EU, so 2.7k is for the EU, NA is lower, and the average is also lower, but let's work with what we have. You need BOTH expansions to access Bound by Blood. Finishing the core game plus both of the expansions, plus some other LS (unless you started playing yesterday) will net you more than 2.7k AP. I find it unreasonable to believe that a player that bought 2 expansions and has a core game to play, will go farm a meta instead. They have tons of other non-farming content ahead of them.

Then I had to go and find out how many gw2efficiency accounts have above 2.7k APIf you use those with 5k AP (and the first achievement title) you get the lowest number, or 11% but that assumes there is no player between 2.7k and 5k with a gw2efficiency account, which is why it's the lowest possible number.Then we have data for hellfire and radiant vambraces, achievable at 3k AP using those we get anything between 14% and 18%, this is guess work and impossible to get precise, but we know it's a number above 11% and below 18%. That's a very good number.

You have no way of knowing if it’s representative. It’s not just AP hunters that farm metas. The AP hunters are not representative of the rest of the player population.

The AP hunters are not representative of the player population. I said those top AP hunters more than likely run the meta more times than the rest of the playerbase combined, because it's in their nature to do so. They are AP farmers and the meta gives AP. They got to those high points by farming events and metas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:It’s whether those 200K
accounts
are representative of the entire player population.

As I said, they are about the 10% to 20% of the players that
play
this game and are eligible to get the Visage. The entire player population won't be farming this meta given how the majority of the game's accounts doesn't even have access to Bound by Blood. A great number is also banned because they were gold sellers.

In order to -try- to get the Visage you must have at least one level 80 character, to play in the zone properly. Having finished the episode is a must too (or at least the first instance), it includes acquisition of both expansions (now that Heart of Thorns is bundled with Path of Fire) . You are gonna tell me now, that there is a player out there that is farming this meta for this specific item, even though they have two full expansions and a complete core game to play? I find that really unlikely, those that are bothered with that are finished with the rest of the game.

So yes the gw2efficiency are very much representative of the population that dropped the Visages. Also, as I said 80% of the game's population in the 35k AP range have a gw2efficiency account. I'm willing to bet that those achievement hunters run the meta more times than the rest of the playerbase combined.

Edit: Arenanet told us there 11 million accounts. Using the official leaderboards you can see that 10% of the accounts have 2.7k AP+, which means 1.1 million accounts. 2.7k AP is literally nothing, especially for owners of both expansions. You will get more than that if you casually finish the core game and the 2 expansions (and maybe a couple of ls episodes) provided you don't do any dailies. If you include dailies, you need just 270 days to reach that point with dailies alone...

Gw2efficiency users are probably representative of the subset of the GW2 community that is dedicated to the game and pursues achievements. However, they might not be representative of the entire player population and, therefore, might not reflect accurately players that have dropped the helmets. One does not need to farm meta to drop the helmet. Farmers have higher chances of eventually getting one due to the increased number of boxes they open, but it does not mean that only farmers get helmets. Moreover, the lower the drop rate the less it matters whether you farm metas or not.

The episode has been released just recently and we do know that the drop rates are very low, so it is hard to make estimates at this time. However, I believe that a combination of gw2efficiency statistics with TP statistics and prices will produce a better representation of the situation with helmets than gw2efficiency data alone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's deceptive. You've all been fooled into thinking they made it easier to get the helmet. They made you think they listened to feedback, but screwed us over at the same time.

Before the update: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:K6Bsvh05TeAJ:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%2522Recovered%2522_Charr_Artifact+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d (cached version of the wiki page for the "Recovered" Charr Artifact)

Before the update the only items in the box were:Uncommon: piece of rare unidentified gearRare: a few named weapons and the Visage of the Khan-UrUltra rare: the infusion

After the update: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Recovered%22_Charr_ArtifactCommon: piece of rare unidentified gear, the 4 legion keys for opening the vault of Khan-Ur, and a whole bunch of carrion flame weaponsUncommon (new category): a whole bunch of carrion and legionnaire weaponsRare: still the same with the named weapons and the helmetUltra rare: same with just the infusion

Before the update there was a total of 7 items in the "Recovered" Charr Artifact loot table. Now there's a total of 48 items! They kept it simple with it only containing new unique items (and a piece of rare unidentified gear) that players would actually want. Now it has a whole bunch of trash weapons you can buy for practically nothing on the trading post. And there was no need to add the legion keys to it because they are tradeable and are pretty cheap in the trading post.

It doesn't matter if they increased the drop rate of the helmet. They made sure to add in a ton of garbage to make sure the drop rate stays relatively the same. More items means the chance to get the helmet go down because the game has to roll for everything when you open the box.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ol Nik.2518 said:Gw2efficiency users are probably representative of the subset of the GW2 community that is dedicated to the game and pursues achievements.

Dedicated to the game? Probably. But pursuing achievements: not so much, the numbers aren't really impressive on gw2efficiency, other than those with 35k+ AP

One does not need to farm meta to drop the helmet. Farmers have higher chances of eventually getting one due to the increased number of boxes they open, but it does not mean that only farmers get helmets. Moreover, the lower the drop rate the less it matters whether you farm metas or not.

True, but 200 players farming the meta 1k times will have significantly higher chances of getting the drop as 10k players playing the meta once. Few players that over-farm will always get better results than loads of players that play once and then leave.

The episode has been released just recently and we do know that the drop rates are very low, so it is hard to make estimates at this time. However, I believe that a combination of gw2efficiency statistics with TP statistics and prices will produce a better representation of the situation with helmets than gw2efficiency data alone.

Of course, using as many data points as possible is always better. gw2efficiency shouldn't be used for that kind of comparison anyway

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...