Poll: Build Templates - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Poll: Build Templates

24

Comments

  • kurfu.5623kurfu.5623 Member ✭✭✭

    It's fine; they need cash to pay the bills.

    This is my signature. It is not very exciting.

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭

    RmVYosJTLlNhCpsJNAlNxqosJA
    The following string is for equipment templates for a very similar game made by a superior company. It is called Guild Wars and is made by Arenanet. This string told the game what type of armor/weapon your character would equip, but also its sigil rune and inscription. And it was stored client side, so i could have as many as i wanted. So after build a full set of legendary armor, runes, and sigils, why can i not have the same system as guild war 1.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    another thing I want to ask. There are addons for GW2 that do Build Templates, so why is this taking so long to add in GW2? That is what I dont understand

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    another thing I want to ask. There are addons for GW2 that do Build Templates, so why is this taking so long to add in GW2? That is what I dont understand

    Because this is ingrained into the very game itself as a feature not the same as a mod.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:
    It would be fine if i could enable it fully for 10€. They will most likely charge that per slot. Also can anyone explain the use of an account wide storage? that one just seems useless.

    It seems to exist solely for the build exchange between players (so you can look up someone else's build without changing to that class). For actual use of templates you will need the per-character slots.

    iirc a dev said you cant share gear templates

    I was talking about account-wide build template slots. Those can be shared.

    @kurfu.5623 said:
    It's fine; they need cash to pay the bills.

    So do I. To paraphrase someone's argument, I'm not running a charity here either.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cynder.2509Cynder.2509 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't see why we pay for a feature that already exists for free in gw1
    And that's another reason why you can consider gw1 being better than gw2...

    I'm Hunter, he/him/they
    Check out my Tumblr for more GW2 content if you want: http://is-it-because-im-charr.tumblr.com/
    Character infos: https://is-it-because-im-charr.tumblr.com/characters

  • solemn.9608solemn.9608 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    @Kanok.3027 said:
    Now, you say you don't get paid for your work if it doesn't sell. Correct, but you are not forcing others to buy it and they are not either. This is an optional feature. Completely optional. I use arcdps build templates, but can do without them.

    ~

    @Kanok.3027 said:
    Correct, but you are not forcing others to buy it and they are not either. This is an optional feature. Completely optional. I use arcdps build templates, but can do without them.

    ~

    @Kanok.3027 said:
    This is an optional feature. Completely optional. I use arcdps build templates, but can do without them.

    ~

    @Kanok.3027 said:
    Completely optional. I use arcdps build templates, but can do without them.

    ~

    @Kanok.3027 said:
    I use arcdps build templates, but can do without them.

    Interesting. Not biased whatsoever, though right? Someone who barely used arctemplates doesn't mind even though the rest of us with 5 or more, some of us 7 or more, some of us 10 or more, personally I have over 20 on my ele main, will need to spend $$$$$$$ to get back the functionality that was just taken from us.

  • @Kanok.3027 said:
    I'm fine with this. If I need additional slots, I can either use my debit card, or farm gold. Either way, I'm covered. People want everything for free, but forget that Anet is still a company with employees that need to be paid for their time and effort. If people really want to moan about it, perhaps Anet shouldn't even release this content because people are just going to meow and moan that they shouldn't gotten it all for free anyway, since day 1. Believe me, I saw the Twitter post and the amount of entitled posts about how it should have been free from day one with unlimited slots and so on was headache-inducing.

    You don't want to use the new build/equipment templates out of some misplaced principal? Fine, however, don't be surprised if arcdps's build templates don't work anymore (and no, not because Anet is going to disable that). I read what deltaconnected says and they said they aren't really going to be supporting build templates much longer, if at all, after release of the official so offset the workload. If you blame Anet for arcdps build templates not working after release because delta doesn't want to work on them anymore, which is understandable, then that's on you. People were already talking about how Anet is somehow going to disable the ability to run arcdps...even though they've never made any plans to do so. The amount of tinfoil hats being made is staggering.

    Either way, I'm looking forward to this. Fully support it. Don't like it? Don't use it.

    Agreed. :)

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    Unless they do something better with balance and desirability of other specs it's a feature I don't see myself using. No need. They've ruined the game with e-specs and trait line bloat. Thanks to their tinkering -taking away from core and giving to e-specs in order to drive expansion sales they've reduced most trait lines to a state where most only have one(two would be stretching it for most) worthwhile adept, master, and grandmaster traits per line.

    Even if you're the laziest and slowest of clickers it's not rocket science or even particularly tedious to change a spec on the fly. This might have been appreciated before the worst of the damage was done leading up to Heart of Thorns but now?

    At any other time, under other circumstances perhaps, I'd have been upset at being money-grubbed for something that should have been a basic feature. Now it's more a matter of, 'Ohhhmygod... don't care.'

    That said I understand it will be a welcome change for some- especially those few playing SPvP who will want to change specs and gearing quickly before the beginning of a match. More power to them, because even with such a feature their chosen game mode is so deep in the hole that something is better than nothing- even if they're going to be nickled and dimed to enjoy something that's received next to no attention in forever for the worst of its problems.

    Edit: Never mind it. SPvP won't be getting these. Worthless change. Literally so.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I could not care less about build templates. Most veterans have multiple characters setup with specific builds. This feature is primarily useful for players with legendary weapons, armor, runes and trinkets, so 0.00001% of player base.

    As for them costing gems. It is basically gold. As long as at least 2 available for free, I do not think it is an issue at all. 1 will be too stingy from Anet. If it is zero however, that would be kitten.

  • Honestly, there are only two characters I change builds for, so what is being presented is more than enough for me. Thanks Anet

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Kanok.3027 said:
    Now, you say you don't get paid for your work if it doesn't sell. Correct, but you are not forcing others to buy it and they are not either. This is an optional feature. Completely optional. I use arcdps build templates, but can do without them.

    ~

    @Kanok.3027 said:
    Correct, but you are not forcing others to buy it and they are not either. This is an optional feature. Completely optional. I use arcdps build templates, but can do without them.

    ~

    @Kanok.3027 said:
    This is an optional feature. Completely optional. I use arcdps build templates, but can do without them.

    ~

    @Kanok.3027 said:
    Completely optional. I use arcdps build templates, but can do without them.

    ~

    @Kanok.3027 said:
    I use arcdps build templates, but can do without them.

    Interesting. Not biased whatsoever, though right? Someone who barely used arctemplates doesn't mind even though the rest of us with 5 or more, some of us 7 or more, some of us 10 or more, personally I have over 20 on my ele main, will need to spend $$$$$$$ to get back the functionality that was just taken from us.

    If we are going to used the ''biased or not'' card , then we should remembers some players that whined about the 60 dollars HoT (too high cost) .
    Spouting that the company lied to them and didnt offer a ''extra baseline GW2(30 euros) (to use the Daily Logins) with each new HoT acount bought ''.

    If Arcdps is deleted from the person who created it , a new person who has the same mad-programing skills will reimplanted it or create new for free

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Ototo.3214Ototo.3214 Member ✭✭✭

    Came back to read some responses and I see people saying these will somehow make legendary gear clunky or won't stat swap quickly and I'm genuinely confused how they came to that conclusion...?

    "Equipment Templates can also record the customization of legendary items, which can freely change attributes and upgrades. You can equip a single legendary item to multiple Equipment Templates with different attributes and upgrade choices for each."
    Did they miss this? ^

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    another thing I want to ask. There are addons for GW2 that do Build Templates, so why is this taking so long to add in GW2? That is what I dont understand

    Because this is ingrained into the very game itself as a feature not the same as a mod.

    A build template program for a video game is not the hardest thing to code.
    They knew it already existed and chose to monetize their own.
    It's shady and forces us to use their option when we were fine without it.

    It's more than that, this isn't as simple as just a mod, is a rework to some core features of the hero pannel.
    The 3 free templates each character will have are replacing the current 3 templates already in the game for PvE, PvP and WvW builds and we'll be able to use all 3 of them for any game mode we choose to.
    By all means use mods if that's your preference, but some of us are unwilling to risk our accounts using 3rd party software like that on MMO's.
    People asked for an official system in the game and now we're getting it, can't be mad about that when this is what a lot of people wanted and constantly asked for.

  • solemn.9608solemn.9608 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    another thing I want to ask. There are addons for GW2 that do Build Templates, so why is this taking so long to add in GW2? That is what I dont understand

    Because this is ingrained into the very game itself as a feature not the same as a mod.

    A build template program for a video game is not the hardest thing to code.
    They knew it already existed and chose to monetize their own.
    It's shady and forces us to use their option when we were fine without it.

    It's more than that, this isn't as simple as just a mod, is a rework to some core features of the hero pannel.
    The 3 free templates each character will have are replacing the current 3 templates already in the game for PvE, PvP and WvW builds and we'll be able to use all 3 of them for any game mode we choose to.
    By all means use mods if that's your preference, but some of us are unwilling to risk our accounts using 3rd party software like that on MMO's.
    People asked for an official system in the game and now we're getting it, can't be mad about that when this is what a lot of people wanted and constantly asked for.

    I don't think you CAN risk your account by using a simple .dll. I have never analyzed any of the gw2 code or files so I don't know for sure, but even a game made in 2012 should have been made by professionals that are able to make a d3d9.dll not have access to your password, for instance. So this is a moot point, especially because the distributor of said .dll file has so far been trustworthy and no such issues have been reported.

    Same with WoW add-ons , you risk very little by using them.
    Just because a large group of people were misinformed doesn't mean they weren't misinformed.

    @Ototo.3214 said:
    Came back to read some responses and I see people saying these will somehow make legendary gear clunky or won't stat swap quickly and I'm genuinely confused how they came to that conclusion...?

    "Equipment Templates can also record the customization of legendary items, which can freely change attributes and upgrades. You can equip a single legendary item to multiple Equipment Templates with different attributes and upgrade choices for each."
    Did they miss this? ^

    +1. They must have missed that. I was happy to read this in the announcement, at least.

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:
    If we are going to used the ''biased or not'' card , then we should remembers some players that whined about the 60 dollars HoT (too high cost) .
    Spouting that the company lied to them and didnt offer a ''extra baseline GW2(30 euros) (to use the Daily Logins) with each new HoT acount bought ''.

    If Arcdps is deleted from the person who created it , a new person who has the same mad-programing skills will reimplanted it or create new for free

    Somewhat of a strawman argument but I guess .. didn't they go back on that decision and offer customer appreciation packages bc they knew their players were upset about it?

  • sajah varel.9261sajah varel.9261 Member ✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    another thing I want to ask. There are addons for GW2 that do Build Templates, so why is this taking so long to add in GW2? That is what I dont understand

    Because this is ingrained into the very game itself as a feature not the same as a mod.

    A build template program for a video game is not the hardest thing to code.
    They knew it already existed and chose to monetize their own.
    It's shady and forces us to use their option when we were fine without it.

    It's more than that, this isn't as simple as just a mod, is a rework to some core features of the hero pannel.
    The 3 free templates each character will have are replacing the current 3 templates already in the game for PvE, PvP and WvW builds and we'll be able to use all 3 of them for any game mode we choose to.
    By all means use mods if that's your preference, but some of us are unwilling to risk our accounts using 3rd party software like that on MMO's.
    People asked for an official system in the game and now we're getting it, can't be mad about that when this is what a lot of people wanted and constantly asked for.

    No it is simple. I'm the first to say when stuff is not as easy as people make it to be, like rework of netcode or balancing or modifying the core of the engine.

    But a template interface is easy, more so especially because there are already 3 existing templates lying dormant. Coders are 2 things : smart, lazy. If they need to do something 3 times, they build a design pattern (I know I would) so that they only design it once and don't touch it if they need to add more later. That means those 3 builds templates are part of a collection of instances (and don't say they might not, it's insulting our profession, I refuse to think someone working at a.net is going to dirty code that kind of stuff, especially on a project that big). So pushing N templates would be the exact same as they already did with those 3. All the underlying functions should already be built and the only thing they need to do is rework the UI to add tabs or lists for the graphical display of those collections and button for saving and loading (because the functions are already there, they are saved when you move a skill or an item in the templates we already have).

  • solemn.9608solemn.9608 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    @sajah varel.9261 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    another thing I want to ask. There are addons for GW2 that do Build Templates, so why is this taking so long to add in GW2? That is what I dont understand

    Because this is ingrained into the very game itself as a feature not the same as a mod.

    A build template program for a video game is not the hardest thing to code.
    They knew it already existed and chose to monetize their own.
    It's shady and forces us to use their option when we were fine without it.

    It's more than that, this isn't as simple as just a mod, is a rework to some core features of the hero pannel.
    The 3 free templates each character will have are replacing the current 3 templates already in the game for PvE, PvP and WvW builds and we'll be able to use all 3 of them for any game mode we choose to.
    By all means use mods if that's your preference, but some of us are unwilling to risk our accounts using 3rd party software like that on MMO's.
    People asked for an official system in the game and now we're getting it, can't be mad about that when this is what a lot of people wanted and constantly asked for.

    No it is simple. I'm the first to say when stuff is not as easy as people make it to be, like rework of netcode or balancing or modifying the core of the engine.

    But a template interface is easy, more so especially because there are already 3 existing templates lying dormant. Coders are 2 things : smart, lazy. If they need to do something 3 times, they build a design pattern (I know I would). That means those 3 builds templates are part of a collection of instances (and don't say they might not, it's insulting our profession, I refuse to think someone working at a.net is going to dirty code that kind of stuff, especially on a project that big). So pushing N templates would be the exact same as they already did with those 3. All the underlying functions should already be built and the only thing they need to do is rework the UI to add tabs or lists for the graphical display of those collections and button for saving and loading (because the functions are already there, they are saved when you move a skill or an item in the templates we already have).

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I don't have as much exp in the field as I'm still a student so I couldn't say it quite as well. Thank you

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    another thing I want to ask. There are addons for GW2 that do Build Templates, so why is this taking so long to add in GW2? That is what I dont understand

    Because this is ingrained into the very game itself as a feature not the same as a mod.

    A build template program for a video game is not the hardest thing to code.
    They knew it already existed and chose to monetize their own.
    It's shady and forces us to use their option when we were fine without it.

    It's more than that, this isn't as simple as just a mod, is a rework to some core features of the hero pannel.
    The 3 free templates each character will have are replacing the current 3 templates already in the game for PvE, PvP and WvW builds and we'll be able to use all 3 of them for any game mode we choose to.
    By all means use mods if that's your preference, but some of us are unwilling to risk our accounts using 3rd party software like that on MMO's.
    People asked for an official system in the game and now we're getting it, can't be mad about that when this is what a lot of people wanted and constantly asked for.

    I don't think you CAN risk your account by using a simple .dll. I have never analyzed any of the gw2 code or files so I don't know for sure, but even a game made in 2012 should have been made by professionals that are able to make a d3d9.dll not have access to your password, for instance. So this is a moot point, especially because the distributor of said .dll file has so far been trustworthy and no such issues have been reported.

    Same with WoW add-ons , you risk very little by using them.
    Just because a large group of people were misinformed doesn't mean they weren't misinformed.

    @Ototo.3214 said:
    Came back to read some responses and I see people saying these will somehow make legendary gear clunky or won't stat swap quickly and I'm genuinely confused how they came to that conclusion...?

    "Equipment Templates can also record the customization of legendary items, which can freely change attributes and upgrades. You can equip a single legendary item to multiple Equipment Templates with different attributes and upgrade choices for each."
    Did they miss this? ^

    +1. They must have missed that. I was happy to read this in the announcement, at least.

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:
    If we are going to used the ''biased or not'' card , then we should remembers some players that whined about the 60 dollars HoT (too high cost) .
    Spouting that the company lied to them and didnt offer a ''extra baseline GW2(30 euros) (to use the Daily Logins) with each new HoT acount bought ''.

    If Arcdps is deleted from the person who created it , a new person who has the same mad-programing skills will reimplanted it or create new for free

    Somewhat of a strawman argument but I guess .. didn't they go back on that decision and offer customer appreciation packages bc they knew their players were upset about it?

    I can name some ppl , that hop from thread to thread and cling to any excuse/reason , so the company reduces HoT price :)))

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • solemn.9608solemn.9608 Member ✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:
    I can name some ppl , that hop from thread to thread and cling to any excuse , so the company reduces HoT price :)))

    Well .. at least we didn't have HoT before they released HoT, right?

  • Makuragee.3058Makuragee.3058 Member ✭✭✭

    I dont mind paying but 2 gears slots for free they are kiding at least 4 for free or even 5

  • Mithos.9023Mithos.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    I haven’t been ever disappointed with gw2, but this frustrates me like nothing before. The number one priority feature I wanted for the game and then it is executed in this way.
    I will try to give two points feedback without much tainting with emotions, but it is hard.

    • Why the monetization feels so out of place is, that this feature is a QOL feature on the scale of “open all” or “salvage all”. That we now have to pay for a comparing feature, it simply feels awful.
    • But the main point is, why is it executed the way it is? In my opinion in the worst possibly way to design this feature. The point is, if I understand it right, the new equipment slots are nothing more but bagslots. So more or less the same situation we have now. For me the best way to have implemented this would have been an unlock of gear per character (or account). The template slots would only overwrite the stats and runes of your current gear. This way every piece of gear unlocked for the character would have been added value with incredible easy access to it. The way it is now, the gear templates won’t do this. Your inventory will still be flooded with gear. I can’t imagine that there will be enough templates slots for every available stat, nor that getting enough will be possible from the standpoints of costs reasonably. So, every time the meta shifts we will have gear that will lose its value and will be moved out of the gear slots to update your builds. So, inventory wars will continue to prevail. We will continue having gear corpses in our banks and on our characters. Even if this changes everything, underlying there is not much change at all.
  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mithos.9023 said:

    • Why the monetization feels so out of place is, that this feature is a QOL feature on the scale of “open all” or “salvage all”. That we now have to pay for a comparing feature, it simply feels awful.

    I'd relate it more to additional crafting licences than something like open/salvage all.

  • Gotenks Jr.3752Gotenks Jr.3752 Member ✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    So yeah, I'm one of those pesky GW1 players who is going to point at GW1 and go this was free. ^^ However given I selected Other in the Poll I'm going to expand on why I chose it.

    I'll split this into 2 halves. Build Templates then Gear Templates.

    To be blunt the "Build Templates" which uses traits, they should be Free and Unlimited in my opinion. All I see looking at its current implementation is a cloud service that’s charging me to store roughly 30 byte string files. Which also won't let me load file via the game, i.e. the GW1 Method. Instead I must open a file copy the string and paste it. Now I'm not stupid, implementing this into the game obviously wasn't straight forward and took effort, however given the nature of builds I can't really see why you would charge for this specific feature. Maybe if you compromise and let things like Arc automate the copy paste from file aspect of it I won’t be so bothered, however I highly doubt this will happen either.

    Now “Gear Templates” I can certainly see why you would monetize this and I certainly have no real issue with that, HOWEVER per character we have 2 slots, not per game type, 2 slots altogether, for both PvE and WvW (I won’t touch sPvP because that’s different).
    Now let’s just talk about PvE, more specifically let’s pick 1 aspect of PvE that’s going to probably utilise this the most that being Raids (I am aware EVERY mode will be able to utilise this but its easier to present my example using Raids).
    When entering a Raid there are usually 3 Roles a player will take, Offence, Defence or Support. Each of which can be broken down into more builds Offence into Power and Condition Damage for example, Support into Healing / Boons / Buffs. This is already pushing us over the 2 default slots we get.
    What’s more it’s also preventing us from having more than 1 set-up dedicated to 1 aspect of the game. I can’t have an open world setup, a raid setup and a WvW setup, without buying extra character specific slots. I am limited to either, a PvE setup and a WvW setup, or 2 setups dedicated to just 1 game mode.
    There is the reasonable argument of well just make an alt for each game mode, to an extent I agree with this, however just by giving players access to 3 Gear templates you eliminate most of the issue, especially when you consider some players will have at least 1 of every profession and will use some of them only in specific game modes.

    I feel in this case 3 really is the magic number, on mode specific characters it lets you cover the 3 basic roles they might face, even if we go WvW specific and go say; Zerg, Roaming, Scout. On Jack of all trade characters it can be “Generic, Instanced and WvW”. It’s a better midground than 2 which is very quickly going to pressure a player towards the Gem Store on a per character basis potentially.
    My suggestion therefore would be to give us 3 Gear Slots per character by default if we are not on a Free To Play account, even going so far as to say that it might even be worth considering making it 4, that however would need more weighing up in relation to the value of a character slot itself.
    Hopefully my argument sounds pretty reasonable, it’s a lot to read after all xD.

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    We need to quit trying to compare GW2 to GW - they are completely different games (similar story, new code). If we want everything from GW... where are my Heroes?!
    Sorry, does not work that way. The valid complaint might be against getting rid of Arc. But quite frankly I am surprised they ever allowed a 3rd party hack to begin with.

    They are giving us 6 for free, which will be enough for a majority of players. It seems to be WvW folks more upset... but according other posts here... WvW is almost empty... so there must not be many affected?

    It is a quality of life improvement, and I am surprised they are giving 6 for free. Would you rather have it locked behind an expansion? :)

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tukaram.8256 said:
    Would you rather have it locked behind an expansion? :)

    Yes. If only because they would be somewhat more likely to do it right, rather than arbitrarily hamstringing it just to make the case for monetization.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    This poll would have made more sense if done after the release of the feature. ;)

    Yeah, I still have a lot of questions that would best be answered after the release of the feature and was not clear in the demo we got (part is my bad, I had things to do so skipped around the vid). For example, if extra gear will not have to be kept in inventory anymore it would be worth it. Not as much as a character slot if that is what is being discussed, but I would free up all those slots that now hold extra armor and weapons.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @perilisk.1874 said:
    Insofar as the gear templates actually store the gear, and constitute free inventory slots, basically, there's no way they were ever going to be free and I'm fine with it.

    They will store the gear rather than have to pull it from inventory? Take my $$ anet!! I would GLADLY pay, unless it gets too unreasonable (maybe 100 max each, the cost of a character slot is unreasonable). Quite a few more bonus points if the item templates are account based and they make all our souldbound stuff accountbound.

    Not sure why they are charging for build templates though. It is convenience, yes, but it just saves you from selecting things, no item storage is saved.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @Ototo.3214 said:
    Came back to read some responses and I see people saying these will somehow make legendary gear clunky or won't stat swap quickly and I'm genuinely confused how they came to that conclusion...?

    "Equipment Templates can also record the customization of legendary items, which can freely change attributes and upgrades. You can equip a single legendary item to multiple Equipment Templates with different attributes and upgrade choices for each."
    Did they miss this? ^

    Each different legendary setting will require a separate gear tab. Which means it will be functionally the same as having a separate ascended set for that tab - except the escended option will be cheaper.
    And remember, that you can have at best 6 of those tabs.

    @Tukaram.8256 said:
    Would you rather have it locked behind an expansion? :)

    Yes. It would have been cheaper.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ototo.3214 said:
    Came back to read some responses and I see people saying these will somehow make legendary gear clunky or won't stat swap quickly and I'm genuinely confused how they came to that conclusion...?

    "Equipment Templates can also record the customization of legendary items, which can freely change attributes and upgrades. You can equip a single legendary item to multiple Equipment Templates with different attributes and upgrade choices for each."
    Did they miss this? ^

    Each different legendary setting will require a separate gear tab. Which means it will be functionally the same as having a separate ascended set for that tab - except the escended option will be cheaper.
    And remember, that you can have at best 6 of those tabs.

    @Tukaram.8256 said:
    Would you rather have it locked behind an expansion? :)

    Yes. It would have been cheaper.

    Have they announced the price? This whole thing seems a bit premature :)

  • Imo per single profession, every next slot you buy have to be much cheaper. Yes you heard me right. Atm a lot of casuals (no offence) shouting 'i like it, i get a free slot'. Ye ofc, much of those don't know more then 'i have condi set and power set'. Deal done, for them it's a free advantage to QoL. However for power users like me i'm like why even start on the 1-3 free slots, when i potentially need 6-10 (pve), 6-15 for pvp, and so on? Ifi exagerrate (and because of the freedom in gw1 i did), i would need atm 70-180 build templates. Price of it? I don't even wanna hear it. Even if i somehow manage 30 slots, what point of them if any extending futher cost so much or i would have to manually select trait changes to offset the to extensive push to 180 build templates? Mind you power vs condi: Everything is different, skills, traits, weapons sigils. So for that template has 100% use. But then i have a banner variant and normal variant of both power war and condi war. Sorry but that extra template has much less value then the first. But not having it would kill the purpose of build tempaltes: a never ending always available gear customization switch. If it's ending, it means it's not a true QoL and you still need manual change. But then in pvp, i have a lot of build wich chance 1-4 traits, 0-3 skills. Yes i can do it manually. But gw1 had the option of not, and sometimes i click yes at start of game without thinking 'kitten i should have switched', so QoL would be good.

    But again: Pvp switching is actually easier, so for me a pvp 'kind of build template' is worth a lot less then pvp.

    My honest conclusion atm is: to not use them even if they come. I cleverly invested in lot of char slots, and they actually work as build templates. Why pay not 'again' extra? nah no thanks. But it's certainly a pain for classes like guardian, mesmer who need tons of builds.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tukaram.8256 said:
    Have they announced the price? This whole thing seems a bit premature :)

    They didn't announce the price, but when they were discussing it, they did compare (several times) the unlocks to bag slots and bank tabs. So, expect prices in the 400-800 gems range per unlock.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On paper it sounds fine as it is really.
    I dont see the issue with them giving a few for free to start with and having to pay for extra ones.

    Ive played other games that give you like a single template or two maybe then start charging you which is really limited anet is offering to give more than that to start with from what i understand.

    I mean i guess it just depends i think if its a matter of slots which hold your gear which are like extra bag slots ideally yes i an see some cost behind those.
    If its just a template that you hit a save button for your traits and or to load the setup from then maybe a bit less. i mean what if they end up being like 300-400 gems thats not alot of gems in gold really.
    Most people who have more thane 5-6 builds across multiple decked out characters can probably realisticly afford to buy more slots without spending real cash.

    We just need to wait and see what price points anet is looking at.

  • Accepting that it's ok to pay for UI functionality is a terrible precident.

  • kratan.4619kratan.4619 Member ✭✭✭

    It should be monetized, this is the type of item that belongs in the gem store. It is not required to have in order to play, it is only a nice to have thing. I will most likely never use any of these, not even the free ones, and I am sure I am not the only one.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    If its just a template that you hit a save button for your traits and or to load the setup from then maybe a bit less. i mean what if they end up being like 300-400 gems thats not alot of gems in gold really.
    Most people who have more thane 5-6 builds across multiple decked out characters can probably realisticly afford to buy more slots without spending real cash.

    At 400 gems per unlock rate (the lowest i expect), I would be looking at ~15k gold or 500 euro investment (that's not full unlock for me, only an estimation of actual needs). Half of that for gear templates (that cannot be circumvented by linking chat codes) alone.
    Please, do tell me how realistic is that.
    I mean, even 1/10 of that would buy me an expansion.

    By the way, that basically means that even the low cost of 50 gems per unlock would already be quite steep. Anet's basically trying to sell a single of many expansion features for the cost of a whole expac (or rather for a cost that is much greater than cost of a whole expac). And people still think i shouldn't complain.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Konrad Curze.5130Konrad Curze.5130 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Community for 7 years: Give us build templates - you can even monetise it with extra slots through the gemstore!
    Anet for 5 years: talk to the hand
    DeltaConnect: Hey GW2 community, with my time and effort I made build templates. for all of you. for fully free. unlimited.
    Community: OMG TYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
    Anet: this addon technically oversteps a few boundaries, but since everyone loves it, it prevents people from continuously pestering us about it, and right now we arent deep in desperation mode anyway, we'll be magnanimous and let it slip
    Anet 1 year later: holy kitten, the studio is in shambles, layoffs, cancelled projects, the playerbase is on a steep downturn, 2 out of 3 game modes are neglected and nearly moribund, balance is as bad as it's ever been, people demanding a fully fledged expac and all we have to show is a tiny, minuscule piece of LS, and we'r hurting badly for money....good lord, what can we do,what can we do ...wait.....
    Anet now: We told you this LS would have expac-like features, so we have decided to shut down the addon we previously gave a pass and that you all were enjoying up till now, to release our own version where you'll get a minimal fraction of what you were getting for free, and then have to pay a pretty penny. also please dont focus too much on the fact that the content we are presenting as new now is something that was already done by third parties years ago.
    Community: since we are brainless cows with no self-respect that sounds perfectly reasonable. please milk us harder

    ftfy

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    If its just a template that you hit a save button for your traits and or to load the setup from then maybe a bit less. i mean what if they end up being like 300-400 gems thats not alot of gems in gold really.
    Most people who have more thane 5-6 builds across multiple decked out characters can probably realisticly afford to buy more slots without spending real cash.

    At 400 gems per unlock rate (the lowest i expect), I would be looking at ~15k gold or 500 euro investment (that's not full unlock for me, only an estimation of actual needs). Half of that for gear templates (that cannot be circumvented by linking chat codes) alone.
    Please, do tell me how realistic is that.
    I mean, even 1/10 of that would buy me an expansion.

    How many legendaries do you have?
    Any legendary armor?
    How much gold have you spent on these things in total?

    Depending on your answers to the questions above 15k gold is still alot but not un feasible. Do you really need every single build in your head right now? No you can only play 1 at a time. Start by loading up your most common builds and go from there. If you need more then work for more just as one would work for a legendary.

    I simply threw out a thought experiment with the idea that people who probably need that many build slots probably have more than enough gold to buy extra layouts depending on the cost which is still not confirmed. If you are some one who has 16 or 20 or even more than 24 builds across multiple characters I'm thinking you are probably not broke in game even so it gives you something to work towards if you dont want to spend real money. 15k gold broken up over time depending on how much you play can be gathered pretty reasonably im a super casual player and saved 2.3k gold in just about 2-3 months someone who is much more active than me (completes all raids per week, is super heavily active in pvp and wvw, does fractals daily, dabbles in the TP market, Farms????) can probably do much much better.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Depending on your answers to the questions above 15k gold is still alot but not un feasible. Do you really need every single build in your head right now?

    No, but the above's just for gear i already have, not for stuff i have considered or might consider...

    And that doesn't even include any new characters i might make in the future...

    Besides, that's 15k for a single feature. It assumes i won't be spending gold for anything else. For years. Also, do you really think that, once they have started, they won't add more such monetized features in the future?

    I did also notice you have ignored my comparison of this to price of an expansion - because it's extremely hard to defend that one, isn't it.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Depending on your answers to the questions above 15k gold is still alot but not un feasible. Do you really need every single build in your head right now?

    No, but the above's just for gear i already have, not for stuff i have considered or might consider...

    And that doesn't even include any new characters i might make in the future...

    Which requires additional character slots, which requires more gems, which then requires more gold to fund those characters. Do you not want to pay for this too or should anet just give you unlimited free character slots as well? This is what i dont understand.

    Besides, that's 15k for a single feature. It assumes i won't be spending gold for anything else. For years. Also, do you really think that, once they have started, they won't add more such monetized features in the future?

    Well you dont need to buy them all at once. You assumed you would do such a thing which is your choice to do. It would not be wise to buy all of them at once which most people would not do unless they had well over the amount it would cost to do so. If you have that much gold 15k gold is not a bother to you. Im struggling to understand your logic here so if you can make it clearer for me please feel free.
    The way i see it is that If you have enough to buy them all at once with the idea "ill just get them all now" which is what you assumed by totaling up an estaminet of 15k.
    Then 15k gold is not an issue for you. IF it is a problem for you then you would do what any other person would do use whats given to you for free and then make adjustments after the fact.

    I did also notice you have ignored my comparison of this to price of an expansion - because it's extremely hard to defend that one, isn't it.

    Because the price of an expansion is not relevant to this conversation thats what people dont understand if anything its worse to even suggest it.

    If anet introduces this feature with an x pack which you know wouldnt be for at least another year possibly year and a half and they do it like so.
    Guild Wars 2: "catchy title here" (awesome sauce!!! 40-60$ in 2019 maybe 29-39$ if they do a promotional "buy it early" kinda deal)
    New features - build templates (neat)
    Lets assume with the same format as what they are presenting now 3-6 for free (neat)
    and any extra after that still cost gems. ( Additional cost ontop of an xpack)

    Now not only will you not have the feature if you dont buy the x pack unlocked (which now people complain about the feature being locked behind a paywall)
    you also still have to spend more money anyways to get the extra slots you so desire.
    Which results in the cost being more than "Just an x pack"

    Note because you kept assuming the worst with my statements i assumed the worst situation with yours. Its only fair for a full true thought comparison.
    You cant be sure that even if the feature came with an x pack that it will be flawless and that you still wont have to pay to maximize that feature as a full luxury.

    Mounts are proof of this as they had in game gold cost and mount skins cost gems which are by no means "required" for you to have but its a luxury thing.

  • For me it kinda depends on whether or not the equipment templates purchases are acc bound or character bound. Like if I buy an extra one on one character does it unlock for all. If the answer is yes it unlocks for all then I'm fine with it. If it character bound then it's gonna be a but less for me. But thats personal. I have several characters that can use more then 2 equipment templates so if its charactert bound then thats gonna be very expensive for me. Dunno if I'm willing to do that then.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Depending on your answers to the questions above 15k gold is still alot but not un feasible. Do you really need every single build in your head right now?

    No, but the above's just for gear i already have, not for stuff i have considered or might consider...

    And that doesn't even include any new characters i might make in the future...

    Which requires additional character slots, which requires more gems, which then requires more gold to fund those characters. Do you not want to pay for this too or should anet just give you unlimited free character slots as well? This is what i dont understand.

    I wonder how did you get from me saying "15k for a single feature is way too expensive" to "single character slot is too expensive"?

    Besides, that's 15k for a single feature. It assumes i won't be spending gold for anything else. For years. Many years (more than this game has left). Also, do you really think that, once they have started, they won't add more such monetized features in the future?

    Well you dont need to buy them all at once. You assumed you would do such a thing which is your choice to do. It would not be wise to buy all of them at once which most people would not do unless they had well over the amount it would cost to do so. If you have that much gold 15k gold is not a bother to you. Im struggling to understand your logic here so if you can make it clearer for me please feel free.

    And i am struggling to understand logic in which 15k is considered "a lot but not unfeasible". I mean seriously, if you said 2k i might agree (Although it would still be a tad pricey for such a feature), but 15k? I am a semi casual player, not a TP baron...

    The way i see it is that If you have enough to buy them all at once with the idea "ill just get them all now" which is what you assumed by totaling up an estaminet of 15k.
    Then 15k gold is not an issue for you. IF it is a problem for you then you would do what any other person would do use whats given to you for free and then make adjustments after the fact.

    I have made adjustments after the fact. The adjustment was "this thing is soo way overpriced, and way beyond my reach, there's no way i will spend even a dime on it".

    I did also notice you have ignored my comparison of this to price of an expansion - because it's extremely hard to defend that one, isn't it.

    Because the price of an expansion is not relevant to this conversation thats what people dont understand if anything its worse to even suggest it.

    Figured you'd say that. Because if you were to actually respond to it, having a single expansion feature cost as much as 10 expansions would be ridiculous.

    If anet introduces this feature with an x pack which you know wouldnt be for at least another year possibly year and a half and they do it like so.
    Guild Wars 2: "catchy title here" (awesome sauce!!! 40-60$ in 2019 maybe 29-39$ if they do a promotional "buy it early" kinda deal)
    New features - build templates (neat)
    Lets assume with the same format as what they are presenting now 3-6 for free (neat)
    and any extra after that still cost gems. ( Additional cost ontop of an xpack)

    ...an expansion feature that needs to be bought separately from an expac, at a cost 10 times greater that said expac. And you think that's perfectly okay. Yeah, i'm done, you're not even making sense now.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • I am not going to say one way or the other until I see how much they are going to charge for more slots. If the price is reasonable then it can stay the way that it is. If the price is too high then I won't be happy.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am genuinely surprised that the totally free option doesnt outpace all others in the poll. The, "The product of others' labor should be given to me for free," entitlement mentality isnt as dominant as I thought.

  • Donari.5237Donari.5237 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm fine with the announced system (slightly depending on cost, but if it is 400 gems or less to keep it in line with bag slots that works for me). However, what would make me happy with it would be having account wide unlocks of individual character tabs. Ie, you have three slots, you buy a fourth, now -all- your alts forever have four. That would even make it reasonable to raise the tab price somewhat.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    I am genuinely surprised that the totally free option doesnt outpace all others in the poll. The, "The product of others' labor should be given to me for free," entitlement mentality isnt as dominant as I thought.

    I bet most of the people voting for that option won't be paying for it, since they won't be using it all that much anyway. It's interesting comparing the opinions with the "how many builds you have on your main character" poll. Especially seeing how the position on the issue usually correlates with the number of builds.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Kanok.3027 said:
    A lot of people point to GW1 and their "unlimited" and free build templates. Thing is, GW1 and GW2 are two entirely different games and probably on two very different engines.

    GW1 and GW2 are on the same Engine, which is why they have so many issues trying to add something new. Just saying.

  • I actually think they’re being TOO generous by giving you 3 free extra ones at the beginning.

    If this helps support the game by brining it income, I’m all for it.

  • Kanok.3027Kanok.3027 Member ✭✭✭

    @Morte de Angelis.7986 said:
    GW1 and GW2 are on the same Engine, which is why they have so many issues trying to add something new. Just saying.

    Thank you for the clarification. Much appreciated!

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