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PvP Mesmer Out of META


Jack.8124

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@zoopop.5630 said:I can name 5 Good mesmer main that can show you exactly why power mirage is still really strong regardless of how kitten most of the players that attempt to play it suck on it.

The problem isn't about lining up a one shot.The problem is the double standard of how much easier, more frequent, or safer big burst is on other classes; yet then claim Mesmer is somehow OP by comparison.

People being good or terrible at it doesn't change the disparity and the bias.

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@"Daishi.6027" said:but I'm skeptical of A-net to do this properly given, the amount of bias and double standards there is against mesmer from both devs and players alike. Let's say that's all in the past and devs have an even handed perspective: Even if they are going to do it reasonably well, and honestly I'm totally on board with bringing everything down a bit; but I have my doubts a-net will do this in a timely manner. If it's going to take them till the end of August or September to bring those specs down, then they should have left mesmer par and reduced everything together.

Fair points. and I've heard that viewpoint before. I would be inclined to agree, except I am almost positive that the more things Anet tries to "fix" at once without taking a barometric reading, the easier it is for things to go horribly, horribly wrong.

Increments are fine, as long as they are timely. If they're not I can work on something else until things get finished up.

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@Daishi.6027 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:I can name 5 Good mesmer main that can show you exactly why power mirage is still really strong regardless of how kitten most of the players that attempt to play it suck on it.

The problem isn't about lining up a one shot.The problem is the double standard of how much easier, more frequent, or safer big burst is on other classes; yet then claim Mesmer is somehow OP by comparison.

People being good or terrible at it doesn't change the disparity and the bias.

And also. Anyone can go find some pro streamers doing well on X class. Does that mean any class they touch is fine and viable? That's like saying one shot melee Ele is good and viable because I watched a streamer do well.

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:Just wanted to say...

@"crepuscular.9047" said:

Condi mesmer doesn't do damage anymoreHuh??? Condi mesmers probably the second most used condi build after Scourge

^This is like saying "boats are probably the second most used means of overseas travel after planes."

Something being a distant second in a situation with only two options really isn't saying much about the second's efficacy.

People criticize engineer's rifle all the time. Even though it's only 1 of 2 Core Engi MH weapons, and the other is trash.

But yeah... condi as a whole needs a revamp.

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@Jack.8124 said:!We really need big buff in mesmers right now!None of top players are using it in AT, or monthly Tournaments.. That's sooooooo sad.Please, we need HELP

no we don't there are 9 core classes plus 18 elite specs, yet there are only 5 spots, other less played classes and elite specs need to shine, mesmers have been in the core line up for way too long

looking at your profile, this is your one and only post thread and the only one you commented onif you only come on the forum just to complain mesmer got nerfed from being super over-powered to slightly over powered, it shows that you are a single class pony, time to pick another class and start training

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@crepuscular.9047 said:

@"Jack.8124" said:!We really need big buff in mesmers right now!None of top players are using it in AT, or monthly Tournaments.. That's sooooooo sad.Please, we need HELP

no we don't there are 9 core classes plus 18 elite specs, yet there are only 5 spots, other less played classes and elite specs need to shine, mesmers have been in the core line up for way too long

looking at your profile, this is your one and only post thread and the only one you commented onif you only come on the forum just to complain mesmer got nerfed from being super over-powered to slightly over powered, it shows that you are a single class pony, time to pick another class and start training

Mesmers haven't been in the "core line up" since Portal was gutted.

Spellbreakers, Herads, Holos, and Scrappers are straight boosted right now. They're the most powerful classes, they're also the easiest builds to play, and they're basically all you see in ranked anymore now that Mesmers, Thieves, and guardians has completely dried up.

I know you're every time I see you're like "OMG Condi mesmer too much conditions!" but you realize Spellbreakers have always had the tools to complete stall out condition mesmers? While some things like Full Counter's damage have been nerfed, their ability to stall out condis have never been nerfed. In fact they've only been buffed.

Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me?

. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Mesmer offenses have only been nerfed since then while Warrior's ability to survive conditions only got buffed further, and they were already stalling out condi mirage at it's most lethal. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills and the Strength traitline. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to straight up two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just _choose _to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

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Spellbreaker: tons of cc and defenceHerald: great engage and ridic unblockable burst (also brings boons)Scourge: AoE denial and corrupt (also brings barriers)FB: heal/boonbot (booons)Thief: Unrivaled Mobility

Thats probably the most common/successful lineup atm...

I think mesmer is falling off in pvp because of less teamutility (not enough fancy boons), less mobility than teef and less bulk and cc than warrior.

If the meta stopped farting out boons with every move a mesmer would probably be more welcome, because they DO got great burst potential, they ARE slipperly, they ARE quite mobile and they ARE disruptive.

Problems with flat out buffing mesmer is that they are still topdogs in:WvW Roaming + always got room for 1-3 in Zergs.PvE (power/condi/utility)PvP in lower brackets

Back in the days it was said that a thief was the bane of a mesmers existance, and i dont think Anet is too fond of giving mesmers more "mobility/utility" so they can replace thieves in that department. (thieves already have a hardtime outside of playing a racing car between uncontested nodes)

They already took a dump on Mesmers in the boongame (not specifically PvP but still), so i dont think thats coming back anytime soon...

Lastly i dont think they want to bulk up a mesmers defence, cc or burst because less reactive players might die of low self-esteem.. .

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@crepuscular.9047 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills and the Strength traitline.

exactly, not just that, it's pretty much everything, they've been just kept on throwing more dmg and more def into everything pretty much everything; Anet need to mass nerf all builds and rethink how to tweak balancing

Core warrior, very specifically the Strength and Physicals, have been singled out for buffing by Arenanet. Damage across the board has gone down for most classes. Except warrior and Spellbreaker.

It's ridiculous to say things like "Condi Mirage still op." "Condi mirage beats spellbreakers" when spellbreakers are just choosing not to use the traits and utilities that lets them completely stall out a condi mirage's damage out put, even before condi mirage had it's damage gutted by 50-60% across the board.

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  • 3 months later...

@Solori.6025 said:Honestly OP, people would rather not have to think when they pvp. If it cant be button mashed to death then it is too good.Like as soon as a profession makes you have to think, it's immediately OP and needs to be gutted. It's why in 2019 we still have people complaining about clones.

This is kind of hilarious coming from someone with a scourge avatar.

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@Jables.4659 said:

@"Solori.6025" said:Honestly OP, people would rather not have to think when they pvp. If it cant be button mashed to death then it is too good.Like as soon as a profession makes you have to think, it's immediately OP and needs to be gutted. It's why in 2019 we still have people complaining about clones.

This is kind of hilarious coming from someone with a scourge avatar.

And this is why conclusions should not be made based on avatars. Solori isn't a Scourge "main". He was meming.

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@"Solori.6025" said:Honestly OP, people would rather not have to think when they pvp. If it cant be button mashed to death then it is too good.Like as soon as a profession makes you have to think, it's immediately OP and needs to be gutted. It's why in 2019 we still have people complaining about clones.

This is kind of hilarious coming from someone with a scourge avatar.

And this is why conclusions should not be made based on avatars. Solori isn't a Scourge "main". He was meming.Indeed Solori had scourge avatar to jebait ppl with it, still working xD.Thread is pretty old but its getting way closer to truth than before. Power mesmer is trash since forever,F for chrono(worse than druid now), condi mirage is still there but pretty weakened compared to how it used to be
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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@"Solori.6025" said:Honestly OP, people would rather not have to think when they pvp. If it cant be button mashed to death then it is too good.Like as soon as a profession makes you have to think, it's immediately OP and needs to be gutted. It's why in 2019 we still have people complaining about clones.

This is kind of hilarious coming from someone with a scourge avatar.

And this is why conclusions should not be made based on avatars. Solori isn't a Scourge "main". He was meming.

I'm just happy people are still falling for it :D. Says a lot about people that do

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Daishi.6027" said:If mesmer was carried by build before, does that mean Rangers, Engies, and Wars are getting carried by their builds now?Having builds that have equal or more defensive options, and either high burst or more reliable damage?

Yes. The above classes need to be looked at and need changes made to them as well. Heralds might also need tuning, though I am willing to kind of hold the conclusion on that due to how allergic they are to conditions. No classes should be able to attain a build or rotation that walls any counterplay out. That's the only way the meta is going to become autonomous.

Does that mean thief, has been carried for years? Because until PoF dropped, and excluding S1 Chronobunk (which was gutted immediately) Mes was pretty much easily replaced in slot by thief if not Portal since pre HoT, and later double moa?

No. And portal nerf needs to be reverted anyway.

I'm usually the first one to come to the forums running my mouth about mesmer, but there are several nerfs that were done before the previous round that need to be addressed at least in part, IMO.

That being said.

I want to see where this goes. If they are slowly taking all of the overperforming specs down a peg, I want to see what the game looks like after Spellbreaker, Soulbeast, Scrapper and Holosmith get touched before I start yammering about unneeded nerfs outside of Portal. The past few patches have been heavy tone downs of toxic mechanics. I want to see if that pattern continues.

If they pretend to give chrono treatment to every other overperforming spec then this game is freaking doomed, chrono feels so clunky and out of place in this "action" mmorpg, if they make every other class so clunky and stupid it's the end of gw2If everything gets bumped down a peg, then dead traits and the like can be discussed. I am totally fine with every class having to manage their resources as hard as, say, thief. Every class has dead traits, some have had dead traits for years. Mesmer being late to that party is not a travesty to me.

[
quietly chuckles in evasive mirror not having 100% uptime anymore on dodge, the audacity of that trait pre-nerf.
]

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@Solori.6025 said:

@Solori.6025 said:Honestly OP, people would rather not have to think when they pvp. If it cant be button mashed to death then it is too good.Like as soon as a profession makes you have to think, it's immediately OP and needs to be gutted. It's why in 2019 we still have people complaining about clones.

This is kind of hilarious coming from someone with a scourge avatar.

And this is why conclusions should not be made based on avatars. Solori isn't a Scourge "main". He was meming.

I'm just happy people are still falling for it :D. Says a lot about people that do

Bruh, are you still lurking in... in dis dead gaem?:D

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@Odik.4587 said:

@Solori.6025 said:Honestly OP, people would rather not have to think when they pvp. If it cant be button mashed to death then it is too good.Like as soon as a profession makes you have to think, it's immediately OP and needs to be gutted. It's why in 2019 we still have people complaining about clones.

This is kind of hilarious coming from someone with a scourge avatar.

And this is why conclusions should not be made based on avatars. Solori isn't a Scourge "main". He was meming.

I'm just happy people are still falling for it :D. Says a lot about people that do

Bruh, are you still lurking in... in dis dead gaem?:D

I check the forums every now and then hoping that something changes for the better (and my fiance and I do story stuff when it is released).I'm usually disappointed or amused. In this case I was more amused :D

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