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[merged] I want to keep using Arc Build Templates... :/


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@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Schwarzwald.9078" said:

That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

Who said build templates used all their resources?

Did arenanet not say there are 4 teams now? 3 teams on the season and 1 team to randomly give us a surprise?

If it took arenanet to use all resources on build templates then arenanet is in a bigger hole then what people expect.

As far as them not making cash for it. The better solution would’ve been give the build tabs for free then everyone would’ve gave more into gem store for the right decision. But since veterans do not like the solution of how it’s used, they aren’t getting any money from veterans.

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@blambidy.3216 said:

@"Schwarzwald.9078" said:

That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

Who said build templates used all their resources?

Did arenanet not say there are 4 teams now? 3 teams on the season and 1 team to randomly give us a surprise?

If it took arenanet to use all resources on build templates then arenanet is in a bigger hole then what people expect.

As far as them not making cash for it. The better solution would’ve been give the build tabs for free then everyone would’ve gave more into gem store for the right decision. But since veterans do not like the solution of how it’s used, they aren’t getting any money from veterans.

Ok, "all" was a bit much, but it still stands that resources to make templates would be wasted if Anet doesn't turn some profit from the effort and allows a free version to persist. Who would buy them?

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Schwarzwald.9078" said:

That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

Who said build templates used all their resources?

Did arenanet not say there are 4 teams now? 3 teams on the season and 1 team to randomly give us a surprise?

If it took arenanet to use all resources on build templates then arenanet is in a bigger hole then what people expect.

As far as them not making cash for it. The better solution would’ve been give the build tabs for free then everyone would’ve gave more into gem store for the right decision. But since veterans do not like the solution of how it’s used, they aren’t getting any money from veterans.

Ok, "all" was a bit much, but it still stands that resources to make templates would be wasted if Anet doesn't turn some profit from the effort and allows a free version to persist. Who would buy them?

(If) everything was unlimited besides storage packs. I would’ve happy paid up front 10-15$ then occasionally bought the storage equipment on the side from gemstore. The worst part is your literally paying for tab slots that switches skills and traits since your only given 3 per character. And 6 is the limit. So what would’ve been better? Few million people paying 10-15$ for this feature. Or people who have the choice of not paying at all?

The point is “free” is it truly free? No it’s not. If Anet said everything in season 5 is free then it’s clearly not free and limited. I would’ve been more happy with an expac and waited for more content and build templates included then these build templates that will cost more then the actual cost of the game now.

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@"kharmin.7683" said:Ok, "all" was a bit much, but it still stands that resources to make templates would be wasted if Anet doesn't turn some profit from the effort and allows a free version to persist. Who would buy them?It's not like i will buy them anyway... not at the prices they suggested in the stream. Those were asolutely ridiculous when added up.

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@blambidy.3216 said:

@"Schwarzwald.9078" said:

That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

Who said build templates used all their resources?

Did arenanet not say there are 4 teams now? 3 teams on the season and 1 team to randomly give us a surprise?

If it took arenanet to use all resources on build templates then arenanet is in a bigger hole then what people expect.

As far as them not making cash for it. The better solution would’ve been give the build tabs for free then everyone would’ve gave more into gem store for the right decision. But since veterans do not like the solution of how it’s used, they aren’t getting any money from veterans.

Ok, "all" was a bit much, but it still stands that resources to make templates would be wasted if Anet doesn't turn some profit from the effort and allows a free version to persist. Who would buy them?

(If) everything was unlimited besides storage packs. I would’ve happy paid up front 10-15$ then occasionally bought the storage equipment on the side from gemstore. The worst part is your literally paying for tab slots that switches skills and traits since your only given 3 per character. And 6 is the limit. So what would’ve been better? Few million people paying 10-15$ for this feature. Or people who have the choice of not paying at all?

Since we don't know the price point yet, speculation is just that; however, the assumption is that these template tabs might be priced like storage tabs. If so, people would still be able to obtain them using gold -> gem conversion, so the cost may not be so bad as some are making it out to be.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Schwarzwald.9078" said:

That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

Who said build templates used all their resources?

Did arenanet not say there are 4 teams now? 3 teams on the season and 1 team to randomly give us a surprise?

If it took arenanet to use all resources on build templates then arenanet is in a bigger hole then what people expect.

As far as them not making cash for it. The better solution would’ve been give the build tabs for free then everyone would’ve gave more into gem store for the right decision. But since veterans do not like the solution of how it’s used, they aren’t getting any money from veterans.

Ok, "all" was a bit much, but it still stands that resources to make templates would be wasted if Anet doesn't turn some profit from the effort and allows a free version to persist. Who would buy them?

(If) everything was unlimited besides storage packs. I would’ve happy paid up front 10-15$ then occasionally bought the storage equipment on the side from gemstore. The worst part is your literally paying for tab slots that switches skills and traits since your only given 3 per character. And 6 is the limit. So what would’ve been better? Few million people paying 10-15$ for this feature. Or people who have the choice of not paying at all?

Since we don't know the price point yet, speculation is just that; however, the assumption is that these template tabs might be priced like storage tabs. If so, people would still be able to obtain them using gold -> gem conversion, so the cost may not be so bad as some are making it out to be.

400 gems per build tab is pretty cost per toon.

I would say I’d have to buy for 3 classes.

Mesmer, thief, guardian.

Mesmer i’d need 2 extra slots.

Thief I’d need 3 extra.

Guardian i’d need 2 extra.

2800 gems, That’s 40$. Since gems can’t be bought in 400 means, I have to buy 3200 instead.

The game itself is only worth 30 dollars now (not including living world seasons)Including living world seasons 2-4 60$? (Don’t know how many gems it cost per season)

So build templates cost me more than half the amount of the whole game for a feature that has 0 content?

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@kharmin.7683 said:Since we don't know the price point yet, speculation is just that; however, the assumption is that these template tabs might be priced like storage tabs. If so, people would still be able to obtain them using gold -> gem conversion, so the cost may not be so bad as some are making it out to be.Well, 15k gold/500 euro i might need is a low estimate and as such is indeed not so bad as some worse possibilities, but it still looks extremely bad.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:I'm sure Delta will continue to provide support for his Build templates and distribute to his inner circle of special friends just like his gear checker.I'm sure that Anet would consider the add-on void upon release of their own template system which would then make using it a bannable offense, just like any other unauthorized add-on.

And yet using the Gear Check version of Arc that Delta passes out to his pals has gotten zero people banned.

didnt that get like hundreds of people banned for like half a year????!?!?!??! :astonished:

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@flog.3485 said:And somehow you don’t think that the introduction of a new free big update doesn’t need a new kind of revenue stream?Why would it need a
new
revenue stream, if all previous LS seasons didn't need it? Are you suggesting they are so poor they need to heavily monetize stuff like the templates now just to keep afloat? If so, that doesn't bode well for th future, you know.

Your argument doesn’t make any sense to me. As far as I know mounts couldn’t have funded season 3, HoT sales and glider skins did however, and if you remember that time, it took them quite some to actually do it because it took them already quite some time both to release the expansion and the necessary February update to address the major complaints.

Ever since mounts, we have moved on from this quite critical situation to allow themselves to both release PoF and season 4 at a much faster pace with more content because they could benefit from mount skins (mostly) that recoups the investment going from season 3 into PoF as well as it funds the development of season 4.

Now what is the situation: they said they wanted to offer something different than all all previous seasons with this saga with expansion feature updates dropped within a living story that relies on a model different than the previous seasons.

Based on all these elements, yes I think it is fair to say that they kinda need a new revenue stream.

Ps: please notice that it has nothing to do with keeping the game afloat. It is about funding big projects that can be released in a timely fashion because let’s be real here, they also need to make some big progress on the alliance and the Swiss tournament style systems.

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Probably worth considering it's not the first time they've charged for convenience features that don't add anything substantial to the game... e.g. resource nodes in home instance (most of which you can get somewhere else), home teleport (you could always just waypoint), infinite salvage tools (you could buy more), infinite picks/axes/sickles (again, buy more)... arguably bank/storage slots qualify too.

But, like the other convenience features, it seems fair enough if you can do the same thing for free in a less convenient way... such as pasting template codes from the clipboard into the game, perhaps (assuming that's not required for templates to be shareable anyway?). Someone has to generate the template codes for you, but I'm sure it'll happen somewhere.

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I have only one question for anet with this build template ! Currently arcdps is leggit by anet so my biggest question is : It will be again legal after the update of build template ? My point of view is : you want win money (it's normal your need tu survive ) BUT You can't come back on your choice because you want win more money ! If you wish stop arcdps and their build template create your own arcdps for player who used it to see the dps in Raid or fractal .... and will must be free and have the same functionalities ! During this time you can't come back on your decision to delete arcdps because you want more profit. It would be just ashamed and frowned upon by the community.

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The short version is that Anet requested that deltaconnected (author of Arc templates) should stop developing his addon as soon as Anet releases their version. He (quite reasonably) intends to comply with that request. So, basically, the addon will stop working at the first major update since releasing templates (so, probably on day one, as that update is almost certain to be sufficiently complex to break arc and force its update).

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@"Trise.2865" said:Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:"Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels on our own for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

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@SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:"Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

A better analogy:

Someone indicates that they are intending to open an amusement park on their property. A neighborhood kid asks if he can put up some free temporary skate trick ramps and such in a corner of the property so that some kids he knows can play around while waiting for the official park. The owner of the property says, 'sure, you can mess around until the officieal opening,' but only until then. The property owner keeps to their agreement to allow the kids to use their property for free for the entire time they worked on their official park.

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@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:"Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

A better analogy:

Someone indicates that they are intending to open an amusement park on their property. A neighborhood kid asks if he can put up some free temporary skate trick ramps and such in a corner of the property so that some kids he knows can play around while waiting for the official park. The owner of the property says, 'sure, you can mess around until the officieal opening,' but only until then. The property owner keeps to their agreement to allow the kids to use their property for free for the entire time they worked on their official park.

Except ArcDPS has had build templates way before Anet has even considered making build templates. It wasn't until Anet finally decided to make build templates that they told ArcDPS they can't have them anymore, after ArcDPS has already been doing build templates for years before Anet even considered doing it.

So it's more like, those kids have turned the area into their own personal skate park for awhile now, and now the owner is going to build their own skate park there instead and they have to leave, but if they want to continue skating there, they have to pay admission now. The owner basically saw the kids were having fun with their own skate park, and decided that they shouldn't be allowed to do that without paying money, so they put a stop to it and built their own skate park that you have to pay to use.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Lottie.5370 said:Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??Anyone playing both pve and WvWPve has different gear for power, condi, heal and support (with most classes being able to have useful builds in at least 3 of those roles). WvW, besides the condi/power split, uses different gear/builds for roaming and zerging. Also, the wvw gear is in general different than for pve, because in WvW you would want at least a bit of defensive stats regardless of your roles. And all that is
without
getting into minmaxing for different specific environments.Getting capped on gear templates and still needing more is easy.

Seems like you selectively left out the part at the end where I said it shouldn't be limited, nice one dude!

And a general reminder: you are not limited to just 6 trait/utility builds, only to 6 gear setups, and it also functions as gear storage. I play WvW (roaming and blobbing), PvE (raids and open world) and PvP (which doesn't have gear, so won't take up a gear slot). I play multiple different classes and have several gear sets per character, however I still do not have more than 6 gear sets on more than ONE single character. It is not 6 gear templates per account, it is per character.

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@Lottie.5370 said:

@Lottie.5370 said:Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??Anyone playing both pve and WvWPve has different gear for power, condi, heal and support (with most classes being able to have useful builds in at least 3 of those roles). WvW, besides the condi/power split, uses different gear/builds for roaming and zerging. Also, the wvw gear is in general different than for pve, because in WvW you would want at least a bit of defensive stats regardless of your roles. And all that is
without
getting into minmaxing for different specific environments.Getting capped on gear templates and still needing more is easy.

Seems like you selectively left out the part at the end where I said it shouldn't be limited, nice one dude!

And a general reminder: you are not limited to just 6 trait/utility builds, only to 6 gear setups, and it also functions as gear storage. I play WvW (roaming and blobbing), PvE (raids and open world) and PvP (which doesn't have gear, so won't take up a gear slot). I play multiple different classes and have several gear sets per character, however I still do not have more than 6 gear sets on more than ONE single character. It is not 6 gear templates per account, it is per character.

You may not have more than 6 gear sets on any single character, but i bet you mix and match between those sets. Each of those combinations in the new system is a whole new set. Care to check how many do you have in this case?
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