Poll: Build Templates - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Poll: Build Templates

13

Comments

  • @Tukaram.8256 said:
    We need to quit trying to compare GW2 to GW - they are completely different games (similar story, new code).

    Game Yes,
    Codewise? Its the same engine. So they could almost literally copy-paste.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    Wait, what are we going to do with infusions?

    I have legendary armor with minstrels and monk runes. Do I have to take up 2 slots, just to have 1 for wvw infusions, and another for agony resist?

    At this point I would just rather have functionality similar to gw2skills where you can just copy 1 stat to all your equipment.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    Wait, what are we going to do with infusions?

    I have legendary armor with minstrels and monk runes. Do I have to take up 2 slots, just to have 1 for wvw infusions, and another for agony resist?

    yes, or change them manually.

    At this point I would just rather have functionality similar to gw2skills where you can just copy 1 stat to all your equipment.

  • I think they should cost double for Mesmers, Necros, Thieves, Rangers, Guardians and Revenants... and be free for Warriors, Engineers and Elementalists. ;)

  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ofc it would be nicer if it was free, but everyone in their right mind knew that there would be some kind of monetization will be attached to additional slots. I'm glad I'm getting slots for free.

    On a side note, regarding some of the comments on the subject: I don't get how players can have ten, twenty or even more builds for the same character. Sure you can minmax for every raidboss, every individual fractal, every dungeon, large scale WvW, small scale WvW, roaming, different World bosses, exploration or farming. But are these builds really all that different from eachother? Sure you might need different builds for WvW and Fractals, but within the range of fractals, do different power builds, as an example, differ enough from eachother that it's worth all the complaints when all that is different is a different rune or sigill or traitline? I fully understand that a build for laid back open world exploration might differ from a raid support build a lot. But do all your raid support builds for a single char are different enough to warrant the negative backlash?

    Why bother, just delete the official Forum.

  • Saniyah.1984Saniyah.1984 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm totally ok with paying for more equipment storage, but the templates too? That's too much!

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    @Morte de Angelis.7986 said:

    @Tukaram.8256 said:
    We need to quit trying to compare GW2 to GW - they are completely different games (similar story, new code).

    Game Yes,
    Codewise? Its the same engine. So they could almost literally copy-paste.

    Oh, in that case I want my Heroes back ha ha :)
    (but seriously, I do)

  • Ototo.3214Ototo.3214 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ototo.3214 said:
    Came back to read some responses and I see people saying these will somehow make legendary gear clunky or won't stat swap quickly and I'm genuinely confused how they came to that conclusion...?

    "Equipment Templates can also record the customization of legendary items, which can freely change attributes and upgrades. You can equip a single legendary item to multiple Equipment Templates with different attributes and upgrade choices for each."
    Did they miss this? ^

    Each different legendary setting will require a separate gear tab. Which means it will be functionally the same as having a separate ascended set for that tab - except the escended option will be cheaper.
    And remember, that you can have at best 6 of those tabs.

    @Tukaram.8256 said:
    Would you rather have it locked behind an expansion? :)

    Yes. It would have been cheaper.

    Sure, 2 ascended sets would be cheaper but I don't think most people make legendaries cause they think the price is a steal. I could have made tons of ascended gear for the price my legends cost me. Besides, if you want to yet again switch the stats to a different build to try out you can freely do that with legendary gear. Sure, you can switch stats on ascended gear too, using the mystic toilet, but that's really annoying imo. I'd rather the equipment templates store the gear than not, regardless of if that makes legendaries "less special," supposedly, because "oh now having another ascended set is just as good." That's better overall for most characters. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop making legendaries.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really don't get the problem people are having with this, 3 slots for free per character is pretty good as a starting point.

    Things like additional bag space/bank space/material storage/etc also have to be paid for on the gem store, and it's only gems so can convert gold. And then it'll be subject to similar sales at certain times of year.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    I really don't get the problem people are having with this, 3 slots for free per character is pretty good as a starting point.

    6 slots per character as an ending point is not so good, though.
    Even when we ignore the monetization part, the system is simply bad for those players that would really have need for it.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    I really don't get the problem people are having with this, 3 slots for free per character is pretty good as a starting point.

    6 slots per character as an ending point is not so good, though.
    Even when we ignore the monetization part, the system is simply bad for those players that would really have need for it.

    Thanks I didn't realise it was 6 max with purchase - for this I agree it could be increased like the aforementioned bag/bank/storage/characterslots/etc to a higher number, perhaps up to 12? I reckon it should have an upper limit but should be higher than current.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.
    If they charge money for it, it's a flat no

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    I am genuinely surprised that the totally free option doesnt outpace all others in the poll. The, "The product of others' labor should be given to me for free," entitlement mentality isnt as dominant as I thought.

    No, it is. It's just plastered all over the other threads.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    I am genuinely surprised that the totally free option doesnt outpace all others in the poll. The, "The product of others' labor should be given to me for free," entitlement mentality isnt as dominant as I thought.

    No, it is. It's just plastered all over the other threads.

    Well, it is obviously easy for some people to claim that "pricing model is okay" when at the sae time in other threads they reveal that they don't need more than 2-3 builds and won;t be buying anything anyway. It is especially ironic when it happens with people that are first to accuse others of not wanting to support the devs.

    I mean, it is always easy to say that the price is okay, if it's not you that will pay it.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • cgMatt.5162cgMatt.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    I just want unlimited templates like in Arcdps. There's this nifty invention made in 1974 called a scrollbar. ;o

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    You do not NEED build templates. You do not NEED douzends of them.

    Actually, i do need them if i want to continue playing the game and still have fun doing it.
    What i don't need however is playing the game that tries very hard to make it not fun for me.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.
    If they charge money for it, it's a flat no

    For anyone who used Arc, it's rather a massive inconvenience update.

    Why, actually?
    I stopped using arc because it made the game crash constantly.
    But at the time it was only reading the damage report output.
    All this update does is quickly swap trait and skill load outs. The only difference is that it swaps multiple traits and skills in one go, rather than selecting everything individually.
    I don't see how it could have any impact at all

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.
    If they charge money for it, it's a flat no

    For anyone who used Arc, it's rather a massive inconvenience update.

    Why, actually?
    I stopped using arc because it made the game crash constantly.
    But at the time it was only reading the damage report output.
    All this update does is quickly swap trait and skill load outs. The only difference is that it swaps multiple traits and skills in one go, rather than selecting everything individually.
    I don't see how it could have any impact at all

    For last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    I don't see how it could have any impact at all

    For last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

    How can you say it worked "better" when the official templates haven't even gone live? Granted, as we know things now, Arc gives more templates, but how can you say that it is better or not? I know from your other posts that you are disappointed with what is being sold, so for you the official templates will have less of what you prefer, but to state that it is better or worse?

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    I don't see how it could have any impact at all

    For last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

    How can you say it worked "better" when the official templates haven't even gone live?

    Because we have been already told what functionality they will have. And it's way less than what's offered by Arc templates.

    Granted, as we know things now, Arc gives more templates, but how can you say that it is better or not? I know from your other posts that you are disappointed with what is being sold, so for you the official templates will have less of what you prefer, but to state that it is better or worse?

    It gives less options, and is less flexible. The only thing it offers that's an advantage over Arc is gear storage - but only if you haven't been using legendary armor. And the cost of that advantage is being limited to only 6 gear setups, which makes it for me a net negative.

    As far as the primary purpose of build template system goes, Arc was a massively superior option to what we'll be getting.

    And that's before we get into how prohibitively high the cost for utilizing this new system will be.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Miss Lana.5276Miss Lana.5276 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    I am genuinely surprised that the totally free option doesnt outpace all others in the poll. The, "The product of others' labor should be given to me for free," entitlement mentality isnt as dominant as I thought.

    No, it is. It's just plastered all over the other threads.

    Well, it is obviously easy for some people to claim that "pricing model is okay" when at the sae time in other threads they reveal that they don't need more than 2-3 builds and won;t be buying anything anyway. It is especially ironic when it happens with people that are first to accuse others of not wanting to support the devs.

    I mean, it is always easy to say that the price is okay, if it's not you that will pay it.

    The other thing I'm noticing a lot in this thread is "Paying for it is reasonable but I won't use the functionality." Of course it seems reasonable if you're not going to make use of it. To those who would use it, it may not be.

    Maybe I should have written the poll to "If you WOULD use this functionality..." then pose a similar question.

    Disagreement =/= "negativity"
    Criticism =/= "hate"

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    I really don't get the problem people are having with this, 3 slots for free per character is pretty good as a starting point.

    Things like additional bag space/bank space/material storage/etc also have to be paid for on the gem store, and it's only gems so can convert gold. And then it'll be subject to similar sales at certain times of year.

    1. Currently in Arc I have as much as 20+ templates on some characters, with around 10 on each character being the bare minimum for someone who plays all game modes and especially people invested in endgame content, maximising stats and builds for Fractals and Raids, which have different stat requirements due to free stats in Fractals and Raids requiring you to frequently swap builds, at times for each boss.
      Going down to 6 max templates will severely hamper my game play experience, as over 2 years of already using Arc templates for free, they have become a necessary core feature I can't enjoy the game without, not some small convenience.

    2. Current pricing ideas they mentioned on the livestream, are for the slots to be similarly priced to bag (400 Gems, 5€) and bank (600 Gems, 7.5€) slot extensions, per character.
      That means, since I'm playing all professions, to unlock all the slots for just one character of each (which mind you, will still be less than what I already currently need and a massive downgrade to the currently free solution), will cost around ~36000 Gems, meaning ~450€ or ~13500 Gold, to have a worse and more limited experience.
      That's way beyond not okay.

    Milking especially invested hardcore players who basically need to have a wide variety of builds to enjoy and be effective in the content they play, while utterly starving them for content since years, feels absolutely terrible.

    Let me also note, I tremendously appreciate the devs and the work they have put into this and I couldn't have been more grateful until the business people became involved with the project, monetizing it to death.
    I can only imagine the pain they had to go through to make this system work and to make it work well and the disappointment about this bad reception they might feel. But this is not about you or your work, devs.

    While I am willing to pay for, ideally, content (I gladly buy further deluxe editions of Expansions, that being the content flow I want to see) but also minor conveniences, this is a core feature necessary to enjoy the game for me, and it has been for years now.
    Charging hundreds of euros, literally more than 15 times the price of an entire expansion like PoF, for a more limited Templates version of what we have now for free, in which I can have a meager 6 builds, down from having and frequently using over 20, is a giant middle finger to a great deal of veteran players, players who for lack of content were already dropping away like flies.

    If this was 200-400 gems (2.5-5€) to unlock slots account wide for all current and future characters and 400 Gems (5€) for a 4 pack of account build storage, with higher total caps on everything (you know, somewhat reasonable monetisation), I could probably stomach it.
    But I don't see how anyone but those completely lacking the need for this feature coupled with a complete lack of empathy for those who do, could defend this.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @Asum.4960 said:
    But I don't see how anyone but those completely lacking the need for this feature coupled with a complete lack of empathy for those who do, could defend this.

    That's pretty much what is happening - those most vocal at defending it also let it slip that they won't be using this system - or at least not to the point where they would need to buy anything.
    Like i said above, it's quite easy to say prices are okay if it's not you that will be paying. Notice though, that start talking about similar prices for the stuff some of those people do care about (like especs) and you get angry responses pretty much instantly.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    I don't see how it could have any impact at all

    For last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

    How can you say it worked "better" when the official templates haven't even gone live?

    Because we have been already told what functionality they will have. And it's way less than what's offered by Arc templates.

    Granted, as we know things now, Arc gives more templates, but how can you say that it is better or not? I know from your other posts that you are disappointed with what is being sold, so for you the official templates will have less of what you prefer, but to state that it is better or worse?

    It gives less options, and is less flexible. The only thing it offers that's an advantage over Arc is gear storage - but only if you haven't been using legendary armor. And the cost of that advantage is being limited to only 6 gear setups, which makes it for me a net negative.

    As far as the primary purpose of build template system goes, Arc was a massively superior option to what we'll be getting.

    And that's before we get into how prohibitively high the cost for utilizing this new system will be.

    But ArcDPS is not allowed to interact with the game. Only function as an overlay. So anets version will be better in the sense that you change everything with 1 click of a button.
    And if the number of load outs is the problem.. Well.. that's kind of a luxury problem. Most people only have a handful of builds.

    The only thing in heavily against is the pricing. This was a key feature of gw1, and free, limitless.
    So why would they ask money for it now?
    If they want some development return, make it 3 templates per character, and 20 for the cost of 2000 gems as an account unlock.

    On the upside, you can now have templates without ArcDPS.
    I have never been able to get that add-on running without constantly crashing the game

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    I don't see how it could have any impact at all

    For last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

    How can you say it worked "better" when the official templates haven't even gone live?

    Because we have been already told what functionality they will have. And it's way less than what's offered by Arc templates.

    Granted, as we know things now, Arc gives more templates, but how can you say that it is better or not? I know from your other posts that you are disappointed with what is being sold, so for you the official templates will have less of what you prefer, but to state that it is better or worse?

    It gives less options, and is less flexible. The only thing it offers that's an advantage over Arc is gear storage - but only if you haven't been using legendary armor. And the cost of that advantage is being limited to only 6 gear setups, which makes it for me a net negative.

    As far as the primary purpose of build template system goes, Arc was a massively superior option to what we'll be getting.

    And that's before we get into how prohibitively high the cost for utilizing this new system will be.

    But ArcDPS is not allowed to interact with the game. Only function as an overlay. So anets version will be better in the sense that you change everything with 1 click of a button.

    You... haven't used arc templates, did you.

    And if the number of load outs is the problem.. Well.. that's kind of a luxury problem. Most people only have a handful of builds.

    Most people have one, and don't even know what it is. The build template system is not for them, they won't use it, and they definitely weren't the people that were asking for it. As it is, the system is bad for the very people that were asking for it.

    The only thing in heavily against is the pricing. This was a key feature of gw1, and free, limitless.
    So why would they ask money for it now?

    Yes, that, too. But pricing is not the only thing that is lacking, a lot of functionality is also crippled. And i still keep learning new things about this system that disappoint me even more.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.
    If they charge money for it, it's a flat no

    For anyone who used Arc, it's rather a massive inconvenience update.

    Why, actually?
    I stopped using arc because it made the game crash constantly.
    But at the time it was only reading the damage report output.
    All this update does is quickly swap trait and skill load outs. The only difference is that it swaps multiple traits and skills in one go, rather than selecting everything individually.
    I don't see how it could have any impact at all

    For last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

    ...and this is the crux of the problem. Arenanet was nice and allowed a 3rd party add-on to be used. I am surprised they ever did that. Had they banned the use, this conversation would not be going on. (I bet they learned their lesson!)

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Do you know, for example, that all 6 gear slots share the same color settings? So, unlike with arc templates, your ability to change gear for cosmetic reasons (or just use cosmetics to visually differentiate different builds, so you immediately see which one you are using now) becomes extremely crippled.

    Maybe after sifting through all of the drama on the forums this week, the devs will see a point like this and work on a way to make it happen? The showcase on the live stream was an unfinished product. Might they be able to make a change like this within the next few weeks? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not familiar with what it would take. Still, maybe it could be added later after the templates have been released and the team works through the bugs after go-live.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Imagine if Arenanet developed their own DPS Meter. IT would only count up to 1k DPS and you'd need to pay extra gems to raise that cap! Or need to pay gems to be able to see boon uptime, or combat mechanics or whatever. At least with the build templates coming as they are, there would be a nice answer to anyone asking for Arenanet to implement same functionality as a 3rd party tool ("remember build templates!")

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Imagine if Arenanet developed their own DPS Meter. IT would only count up to 1k DPS and you'd need to pay extra gems to raise that cap! Or need to pay gems to be able to see boon uptime, or combat mechanics or whatever.

    (and even after buying every unlock, you would still be able to see only boons to 20 stacks, dps to 25k, and only for up to 5 people)

    At least with the build templates coming as they are, there would be a nice answer to anyone asking for Arenanet to implement same functionality as a 3rd party tool ("remember build templates!")

    Yes. "be careful what you ask for" should probably be a meme for Anet already.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @Miss Lana.5276 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    This poll would have made more sense if done after the release of the feature. ;)

    The only thing that would have changed would be "do you think the price is too high" which is another question entirely.

    But likely equally as important as the others in the poll.... I hazard a guess that for many players that will become the crux of whether to utilise the templates system or not, not whether one part of it should cost over another part.
    I am all for proactive maintenance over reactive maintenance of product, but until we know all the ins and outs including the costs, its kinda hard to pick an option at the moment.

    The one thing I would never of expected though is to have it entirely free.. convenience costs even in some of the sub based games these days.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @Tukaram.8256 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.
    If they charge money for it, it's a flat no

    For anyone who used Arc, it's rather a massive inconvenience update.

    Why, actually?
    I stopped using arc because it made the game crash constantly.
    But at the time it was only reading the damage report output.
    All this update does is quickly swap trait and skill load outs. The only difference is that it swaps multiple traits and skills in one go, rather than selecting everything individually.
    I don't see how it could have any impact at all

    For last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

    ...and this is the crux of the problem. Arenanet was nice and allowed a 3rd party add-on to be used. I am surprised they ever did that. Had they banned the use, this conversation would not be going on. (I bet they learned their lesson!)

    I really don't get why you are so gleeful about a company turning anti consumer in every thread regarding this topic, just because you are presumably not affected in this specific case and didn't rely on that add on for years already to just enjoy the game, just for it now to be ripped away for a money milking scheme.

    Good on you for not relying on build templates. See you when something you enjoy in the game gets cut up and resold for hundreds of euros for a worse experience.

    For some of us this patch comes down to reading like: "Build Templates have now been removed from the game, unless you are rich of course, then can spend hundreds of Euros to get some very limited templates back."

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Tukaram.8256 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.
    If they charge money for it, it's a flat no

    For anyone who used Arc, it's rather a massive inconvenience update.

    Why, actually?
    I stopped using arc because it made the game crash constantly.
    But at the time it was only reading the damage report output.
    All this update does is quickly swap trait and skill load outs. The only difference is that it swaps multiple traits and skills in one go, rather than selecting everything individually.
    I don't see how it could have any impact at all

    For last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

    ...and this is the crux of the problem. Arenanet was nice and allowed a 3rd party add-on to be used. I am surprised they ever did that. Had they banned the use, this conversation would not be going on. (I bet they learned their lesson!)

    I really don't get why you are so gleeful about a company turning anti consumer in every thread regarding this topic, just because you are presumably not affected in this specific case and didn't rely on that add on for years already to just enjoy the game, just for it now to be ripped away for a money milking scheme.

    Good on you for not relying on build templates. See you when something you enjoy in the game gets cut up and resold for hundreds of euros for a worse experience.

    For some of us this patch comes down to reading like: "Build Templates have now been removed from the game, unless you are rich of course, then can spend hundreds of Euros on some very limited templates."

    I am not gleeful - I am honestly shocked they ever allowed it. I suppose they had to say they were not responsible if anything happened to your stuff? But seriously, I just amazed they let it continue. And with the outcry now, they may learn not to do it again. Kind of a shame, really. Maybe they can expand it later, if enough people ask for it.

  • onid.4650onid.4650 Member ✭✭

    Did not read the full thread but my opinion on templates, as somebody who plays this game a lot:
    The current way they are planned to be released is absolutely horrible for the following reasons:

    • Maximum amount of 6 templates per char.
      I need at least 8 for Rev/Mes and more would be better cause I currently use 13 each. People told me I can fix that by creating multiple chars for the same class but I do not want that. I currently do not have to because there are arc dps templates and I crafted Legendary armor for all my main chars for the exact same reason. I can not live with the current amount of planned maximum templates.

    • 400 gems per gear template
      I am a so called "hardcore player". All I do is raiding and sometimes dungeons/fractals and I main the three classes Guardian, Rev and Mesmer. Currently I would need to buy at least 22 templates for those three classes which is 8800 gems. 8000 gems cost about 110€ if you buy them from Anet.
      I am not saying I want free templates, please anet take my money, but please make it somewhat affordable. Offer build templates as a full package or smth. A good option would be a full template package: 4000 gems for 10 total templates on every single char. and make people able to buy more of that. The reason you plan to make them 400gems/template is because it saves inventory space if I understood everything correctly. I dont need that. I crafted 3 legendary armors on my three main classes for that exact reason. I want templates, not inventory space.

    • Templates are overwritten if you swap gear while using a template
      This is just annoying. Templates should be the base for something, that you can always go back to. Just think about Microsoft World series letter templates, you wouldnt want those to change after you used them. You would want to use a template, fill it out and send letter. Next time you need series letter you just want to open the same template again. Gw2 templates should be the same.

    I hope somebody from anet will read this and make the deciding ppl aware of the situation, that 6 templates arent enough and 400 gems/template is too much for anybdy.

    tl;dr Yes I want templates and yes I am willing to pay for them but please dont make them useless or way too overpriced.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tukaram.8256 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Tukaram.8256 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.
    If they charge money for it, it's a flat no

    For anyone who used Arc, it's rather a massive inconvenience update.

    Why, actually?
    I stopped using arc because it made the game crash constantly.
    But at the time it was only reading the damage report output.
    All this update does is quickly swap trait and skill load outs. The only difference is that it swaps multiple traits and skills in one go, rather than selecting everything individually.
    I don't see how it could have any impact at all

    For last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

    ...and this is the crux of the problem. Arenanet was nice and allowed a 3rd party add-on to be used. I am surprised they ever did that. Had they banned the use, this conversation would not be going on. (I bet they learned their lesson!)

    I really don't get why you are so gleeful about a company turning anti consumer in every thread regarding this topic, just because you are presumably not affected in this specific case and didn't rely on that add on for years already to just enjoy the game, just for it now to be ripped away for a money milking scheme.

    Good on you for not relying on build templates. See you when something you enjoy in the game gets cut up and resold for hundreds of euros for a worse experience.

    For some of us this patch comes down to reading like: "Build Templates have now been removed from the game, unless you are rich of course, then can spend hundreds of Euros on some very limited templates."

    I am not gleeful - I am honestly shocked they ever allowed it. I suppose they had to say they were not responsible if anything happened to your stuff? But seriously, I just amazed they let it continue. And with the outcry now, they may learn not to do it again. Kind of a shame, really. Maybe they can expand it later, if enough people ask for it.

    Build Templates are an essentially required functionality for hardcore players, as without it players in endgame content would have to stop every 5 minutes to swap builds (or characters) between bosses or fractals, taking up multiple minutes, which would very quickly get frustrating to a point of the content not being enjoyable to play anymore, especially with having to keep track of up to 20 builds and build variations for every profession for each type of boss and type of content.

    That's why they allowed Arcdps. They knew it was essential for that part of the player base. It just seems like now they don't care anymore.

    The fact that the part you are shocked by is that they ever did boggles my mind tbh.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Miss Lana.5276Miss Lana.5276 Member ✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Tukaram.8256 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Tukaram.8256 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.
    If they charge money for it, it's a flat no

    For anyone who used Arc, it's rather a massive inconvenience update.

    Why, actually?
    I stopped using arc because it made the game crash constantly.
    But at the time it was only reading the damage report output.
    All this update does is quickly swap trait and skill load outs. The only difference is that it swaps multiple traits and skills in one go, rather than selecting everything individually.
    I don't see how it could have any impact at all

    For last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

    ...and this is the crux of the problem. Arenanet was nice and allowed a 3rd party add-on to be used. I am surprised they ever did that. Had they banned the use, this conversation would not be going on. (I bet they learned their lesson!)

    I really don't get why you are so gleeful about a company turning anti consumer in every thread regarding this topic, just because you are presumably not affected in this specific case and didn't rely on that add on for years already to just enjoy the game, just for it now to be ripped away for a money milking scheme.

    Good on you for not relying on build templates. See you when something you enjoy in the game gets cut up and resold for hundreds of euros for a worse experience.

    For some of us this patch comes down to reading like: "Build Templates have now been removed from the game, unless you are rich of course, then can spend hundreds of Euros on some very limited templates."

    I am not gleeful - I am honestly shocked they ever allowed it. I suppose they had to say they were not responsible if anything happened to your stuff? But seriously, I just amazed they let it continue. And with the outcry now, they may learn not to do it again. Kind of a shame, really. Maybe they can expand it later, if enough people ask for it.

    Build Templates are an essentially required functionality for hardcore players, as without it players in endgame content would have to stop every 5 minutes to swap builds (or characters) between bosses or fractals, taking up multiple minutes, which would very quickly get frustrating to a point of the content not being enjoyable to play anymore, especially with having to keep track of up to 20 builds and build variations for every profession for each type of boss and type of content.

    That's why they allowed Arcdps. They knew it was essential for that part of the player base. It just seems like now they don't care anymore.

    The fact that the part you are shocked by is that they ever did boggles my mind tbh.

    Hell, switching from power to condi bs manually takes me maybe 1 minute tops, and that still feels like wasted time when raiding, especially in groups that one-shot the boss.

    Disagreement =/= "negativity"
    Criticism =/= "hate"

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @onid.4650 said:

    • Templates are overwritten if you swap gear while using a template
      This is just annoying. Templates should be the base for something, that you can always go back to. Just think about Microsoft World series letter templates, you wouldnt want those to change after you used them. You would want to use a template, fill it out and send letter. Next time you need series letter you just want to open the same template again. Gw2 templates should be the same.

    That's something they made confusing with their naming. The truth is that there are only 24 build templates - the account-wide ones. The 6 slots per character are not true templates. They are hotkey loadout assignments. That of course means that if you do want to use account-wide templates for your characters, you should better reserve at least one of the loadout slots for them (because loading one of the templates from template storage will overwrite that loadout setup, erasing everything that was in it before).

    This of course means that we do end up with only 24 build templates for the whole account. Less than 3 per each class. Which is nowhere even close to being enough.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Imagine if Arenanet developed their own DPS Meter. IT would only count up to 1k DPS and you'd need to pay extra gems to raise that cap! Or need to pay gems to be able to see boon uptime, or combat mechanics or whatever. At least with the build templates coming as they are, there would be a nice answer to anyone asking for Arenanet to implement same functionality as a 3rd party tool ("remember build templates!")

    That's old knowledge for anyone who has played other MMOs and thought about it for more than half a second. I have yet to see the game where addons, as long as they were available, did not massively improve interface and other systems. We can feel fortunate that ANet most likely will never implement a dps meter. Would be the same joke as their general stance towards addons.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • onid.4650onid.4650 Member ✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @onid.4650 said:

    • Templates are overwritten if you swap gear while using a template
      This is just annoying. Templates should be the base for something, that you can always go back to. Just think about Microsoft World series letter templates, you wouldnt want those to change after you used them. You would want to use a template, fill it out and send letter. Next time you need series letter you just want to open the same template again. Gw2 templates should be the same.

    That's something they made confusing with their naming. The truth is that there are only 24 build templates - the account-wide ones. The 6 slots per character are not true templates. They are hotkey loadout assignments. That of course means that if you do want to use account-wide templates for your characters, you should better reserve at least one of the loadout slots for them (because loading one of the templates from template storage will overwrite that loadout setup, erasing everything that was in it before).

    This of course means that we do end up with only 24 build templates for the whole account. Which is nowhere even close to being enough.

    Ok thanks for clarifying that. How many gear templates are there going to be? Cause build templates themselves are kinda pointless without gear templates.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @onid.4650 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @onid.4650 said:

    • Templates are overwritten if you swap gear while using a template
      This is just annoying. Templates should be the base for something, that you can always go back to. Just think about Microsoft World series letter templates, you wouldnt want those to change after you used them. You would want to use a template, fill it out and send letter. Next time you need series letter you just want to open the same template again. Gw2 templates should be the same.

    That's something they made confusing with their naming. The truth is that there are only 24 build templates - the account-wide ones. The 6 slots per character are not true templates. They are hotkey loadout assignments. That of course means that if you do want to use account-wide templates for your characters, you should better reserve at least one of the loadout slots for them (because loading one of the templates from template storage will overwrite that loadout setup, erasing everything that was in it before).

    This of course means that we do end up with only 24 build templates for the whole account. Which is nowhere even close to being enough.

    Ok thanks for clarifying that. How many gear templates are there going to be? Cause build templates themselves are kinda pointless without gear templates.

    None. There are no gear templates at all. There's something they call "gear template", but it is (similarily as with builds) a hotkey gear loadout. Again, if you change anything in your active slot, it automatically gets "saved" for that slot. think of it as weapon switching, just with the whole gear set.
    You get 6 tabs per character (2 free, 4 purchasable) for those.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Jemmi.6058Jemmi.6058 Member ✭✭

    I voted "other".

    I don't think individual features should be paid for (i.e. pay for 1 slot of a build template, or 1 slot of a gear template on a per character basis.) However, I do not think that this should all be free either. This should have just been part of a massive feature package sold in an expansion as one of the 'expansion-level-features'. The way this has been designed is reminiscent of TERA and other Korean FTP MMO's that purposefully program their MMO to be inconvenient and then sell layering 'conveniences' to overcome it.

  • UnDeadFun.5824UnDeadFun.5824 Member ✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Community for 7 years: Give us build templates - you can even monetise it with extra slots through the gemstore!
    Anet: Sorry its late, here we are.
    Community: How dare you

    It's fine for them to monetise extra slots on this in my opinion. I'm just glad it's here after such a ridiculous wait

    I don't completely disagree with you. This would have gone better if they didn't allow the 3rd party program when they planned to make their own version and charge players.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    I don't see how it could have any impact at all

    For last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

    How can you say it worked "better" when the official templates haven't even gone live?

    Because we have been already told what functionality they will have. And it's way less than what's offered by Arc templates.

    Granted, as we know things now, Arc gives more templates, but how can you say that it is better or not? I know from your other posts that you are disappointed with what is being sold, so for you the official templates will have less of what you prefer, but to state that it is better or worse?

    It gives less options, and is less flexible. The only thing it offers that's an advantage over Arc is gear storage - but only if you haven't been using legendary armor. And the cost of that advantage is being limited to only 6 gear setups, which makes it for me a net negative.

    As far as the primary purpose of build template system goes, Arc was a massively superior option to what we'll be getting.

    And that's before we get into how prohibitively high the cost for utilizing this new system will be.

    But ArcDPS is not allowed to interact with the game. Only function as an overlay. So anets version will be better in the sense that you change everything with 1 click of a button.

    You... haven't used arc templates, did you.

    And if the number of load outs is the problem.. Well.. that's kind of a luxury problem. Most people only have a handful of builds.

    Most people have one, and don't even know what it is. The build template system is not for them, they won't use it, and they definitely weren't the people that were asking for it. As it is, the system is bad for the very people that were asking for it.

    The only thing in heavily against is the pricing. This was a key feature of gw1, and free, limitless.
    So why would they ask money for it now?

    Yes, that, too. But pricing is not the only thing that is lacking, a lot of functionality is also crippled. And i still keep learning new things about this system that disappoint me even more.

    About half a year, maybe less, since i last used it.
    I download it occasionally during the big balance updates to practice rotations on the DPS meter.
    But that's only for a few days before i remove it again, because as i said, ArcDPS is constantly making the game crash

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Lived this long without any of this and at this point I really don't give a hoot.

    Yay, I guess, for doing something that should have been part of the original release. Enjoy it. Maybe in seven years, they'll add a new weapon type.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:
    The fact that the part you are shocked by is that they ever did boggles my mind tbh.

    I reckon he'll be completely floored that they ever allowed Discord integration once they start to monetize a limited speech capability.

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not having build templates wasnt a big problem before so how is having them now is. Sure its convenience factor is fantastic. But we all should know by now that you pay for convenience. The minority always yells the loudest. Who wants to hear a satisfied customer. This is america baby and we love to over-rage over nothing.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    Not having build templates wasnt a big problem before so how is having them now is. Sure its convenience factor is fantastic. But we all should know by now that you pay for convenience. The minority always yells the loudest. Who wants to hear a satisfied customer. This is america baby and we love to over-rage over nothing.

    People already had and regurlarly used build templates....
    You can't ignore that, just because you got on fine without them.

  • @Saniyah.1984 said:
    I'm totally ok with paying for more equipment storage, but the templates too? That's too much!

    the templates will be like storage. So what is your problem exactly?

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    Not having build templates wasnt a big problem before so how is having them now is. Sure its convenience factor is fantastic. But we all should know by now that you pay for convenience. The minority always yells the loudest. Who wants to hear a satisfied customer. This is america baby and we love to over-rage over nothing.

    Not having build Templates was a major problem, which is why people turned to (and created) add-on's such a Arc to solve it when Anet wouldn't or couldn't.
    It's not just convenience, it's essential for hardcore players, especially if they are engaged in multiple gamemodes and even more so if one of them is Raids, which generally requires quite the array of builds to be efficient at all the different bosses. Put on top of that that Fractals require different stat compositions due to the free stats you get there, and you have a nightmarish amount of gear compositions to remember without an extensive template functionality, that just gets unmanageable over time as you get more engaged in that content.

    Hardcore players might be in the minority, but we have plenty of reason to yell here, as this feature as it is now, will make playing certain content, or playing much different types of content an utter chore.
    Last time I checked, new "convenience" features shouldn't make the game more of a chore, neither should they then charge exorbitant amounts of money to then just be a lesser chore, but still a chore. I'm pretty sure that is the opposite of convenience.

    I'm also pretty sure these forums are international, with most users not being american, considering GW2's demographic is mostly European.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Loboling.5293Loboling.5293 Member ✭✭✭

    With legendary gear having free gear slots extra.

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