The Deadly Excuse That Stops sPvP From Evolving

[Ziggityzog.7389]

As of now I'll wait for guild wars 3 may it be a few years or what not. I'm never coming back for another circlequest game. I'll play my occasional stronghold match but for now my new game.

Ashes of creation apocalypse.

The pvp battle royals mode is just epic fun and it's just the beta version. It will stay free and only get better from here on out.

Not worth trying in gw2 ranked. A wintrader will come along and cheat to top spot.

[Knighthonor.4061]

need a 30 vs 30 queued SPvP game mode with objectives

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:if its fun and enjoyable, more ppl will play it?

PvP failed though and of the current player base almost noone, who doesn't already does PvP, is interested in it.The majority of players doesn't even care for the PvE rewards from the PvP reward tracks.That aside, the current imbalance makes it hardly possible to enjoy PvP, even for the few of us who still do PvP.

riiight, so... can't improve pvp cuz balance and population. basically anets attitude towards pvp these past years (excluding swiss). a few pve players would dip in more, I think a decent amount of wvw'ers, and a lot of the people that left would come back to try it out. all a river needs to start is a trickle.

[Mikali.9651]

I don't play PvP because I refuse to play the contest mode. I will never ever play it. GW1 had so many modes, such great implementations, and in GW2 we got the capture and hold points until 500. There is no fun for me there, and even if they create even more maps for some variation, I will still not play it.

I've never seen a population problem in PvP in GW1 as Anet described it - never, maybe for hero battles mode lol. RA was alive, AB was alive, GvG was alive, HA was alive. TA did have some problems, but with current technology and matchmaking, even that could have worked again.

I do not ask to have dozens of modes, but not having a mode such as RA - where you fight until the enemy team is annihilated, is just baffling. Even RA had variations, annihilation, modes with priests which resurrected players, death count, flags for AoE dmg pressure...and they were on rotation. If you won, you played the next match with the same team, thus creating a bit more everlasting experience and sense of community.

And don't let me start on GvG. Dozens of maps, each with their own layout which enabled different strategies. Observe mode, ranking mode, a way to shove your status in the shape of wearing the cape with a color that matched it, and thus being recognizable in a public sphere. No one in GW2 cares about your ranking or skill level, no one, there is no awe.

But Anet is still stubborn with this mode, and they will never create a new one because they think this mode is the best mode and should be the only one. The mode which is hard to observe and follow, the mode which does not have voice chat implemented and it is 100% team-oriented, the mode which is very abusable with certain builds because of the nature of needing to hold the point in a small circle.

And trait system is just a laughable addition to the game, with all the passive proc effects and power boosts.They said GW1 was hard to balance? It is a child play compared to GW2 so I will never accept that argument.

[Crab Fear.1624]

1-5 queue, bring it back...do do do do

[ZDragon.3046]

while you are at it rework the score and ranking system to score a person based on their role and various other things they do in a match win or lose your total skill ranking should not be based on if you get a good or decent team or an oblivious one.some one new to the game landing in plat because he had alot of good matches vs a actual semi vet player landing in bronze because his teams were oblivious multiple games in a row.

Whats the point of having a ranking system that does not actually score you based on how well "you" perform it scores you based on how well your team does over a fixed set of matches... ontop of this you will not get the same team every time.

PvP in general has alot of issues that need to be fixedsoloq or duoq is but a small part of the problem simply forcing or allowing one or the other wont make much difference.

Why are players not ranked by individual skill?I do understand that in alot of cases the current ranking system can relate to proper skill level of an individual player but this is not always the case. It just needs to be better.

In general the current is outdated and a big root of the problem. Its often more pushing than rewarding overall which leads to people quitting, trading wins, etc.Then as someone else said these game modes are stale and out played. Capture and hold for 7 years. The maps dont focus enough on secondary objectives which arguably should be the main objectives with capturing points being the secondary. In some maps secondary objectives are completely ignored unless the win or loss is already a land slide.

At this point anet needs to put some serious work behind other modes even if the game is not balanced for them completely.1v1 (best of 3)2v2 (best of 3)3v3 turn/tag style5v5 death match best of 3 or 5

The time of not having skill splits is over a patch needs to roll through that fully splits everything from pve, wvw, and pvp then do balance accordinglyI know anet didnt want to do skill functionality splits but its time to do it. Its clear people would rather learn how to compensate with skills working differently in different game modes vs one game mode breaking the others (the scourge change being a prime example)

When all of the above is done pvp in this game can actually start to make a name for itself.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

I had the best time ever in all of guild wars pvp and now I've moved on for the most part now. Played Gw1, started gw2 at launch, played seasons 1-4 (only legit seasons), then when the wintrade wars started in ranked with duo I just went to only stronghold and didnt bother with the cesspool.

Now as a dedicated guild wars fan I found a new source of pvp that will only get better and not worse like this spam wars circlequest crud.

Ashes of creation apocalypse is a free game. Just battle royal for now with more pvp layer and pve.

Time to move on to new pvp since this has been left to rot for about 4 years now.

[Vectra.1968]

Gw1 and Gw2 same scenario ....arena does not have the ability to stay on course.

[otto.5684]

The "population is too low" is not the cause. It is the result.

The game is old.The balance went sideways with PoF and is somehow getting worse since the end of last year.Much of the game systems (like HP pools) need fundamental updates, which devs probably incapable of doing.Most of the devs side remake projects, like most recent chrono changes, have been absolute failure. Just look at Scrapper changes across this year. Major up and down shakes ups, that 90% of them were not needed to begin with.Little content being added. One map in the last 2 years.

And yes, match making right now is terrible, cuz the population is so small, that having the match making work correctly will require 10 mins + of waiting.

Is it going to get better? When there are new elite lines and weapons let me know. Other than that, it is a trend downward, and from how things going, on a fast track.

[Firebeard.1746]

I'm sorry, what's wrong about OP stating duo is garbage? Anet had already openly admitted they refuse to balance teams with duos because queue times. Yay sanctioned match manipulation!

In all seriousness in light of their queue time decisions duo was the worst compromise: people can't play with a full set of friends, but it still lends itself to match manipulation. They should allow zoning while in pvp queues and split the queues into soloq and full party queues in addition to other matchmaking improvements. Also reduce ranked pip requirements based on queue time increases.

[Crab Fear.1624]

I think the deadly word is Soon.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@"otto.5684" said:The "population is too low" is not the cause. It is the result.

The game is old.The balance went sideways with PoF and is somehow getting worse since the end of last year.Much of the game systems (like HP pools) need fundamental updates, which devs probably incapable of doing.Most of the devs side remake projects, like most recent chrono changes, have been absolute failure. Just look at Scrapper changes across this year. Major up and down shakes ups, that 90% of them were not needed to begin with.Little content being added. One map in the last 2 years.

And yes, match making right now is terrible, cuz the population is so small, that having the match making work correctly will require 10 mins + of waiting.

Is it going to get better? When there are new elite lines and weapons let me know. Other than that, it is a trend downward, and from how things going, on a fast track.

What if I were to say all your suggested changes are irrelevant because the population is too low? Would that be causation or effect? That the often meh or outright bad and uncalled for balance updates, and new content has to be drip fed to the people still playing because everyone thinks the game is dead and feels the need to use this excuse to justify to themselves why they're not playing... openly for some reason.

I can't tell you how many times i've seen someone put out some idea for change, and there's almost always that one person who has to say that the game is dead and nobody is playing it. To say that has no impact on the people advocating those ideas for change is a little disingenuous. Being constantly reminded that you're wasting your time only makes people more inclined to be apathetic. That's what makes this particular excuse so deadly. That coupled with the fact that players aren't the only ones using it.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:I think the deadly word is Soon.

If this is the deadly excuse, then that's the deadly lie.

[otto.5684]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@"otto.5684" said:The "population is too low" is not the cause. It is the result.

The game is old.The balance went sideways with PoF and is somehow getting worse since the end of last year.Much of the game systems (like HP pools) need fundamental updates, which devs probably incapable of doing.Most of the devs side remake projects, like most recent chrono changes, have been absolute failure. Just look at Scrapper changes across this year. Major up and down shakes ups, that 90% of them were not needed to begin with.Little content being added. One map in the last 2 years.

And yes, match making right now is terrible, cuz the population is so small, that having the match making work correctly will require 10 mins + of waiting.

Is it going to get better? When there are new elite lines and weapons let me know. Other than that, it is a trend downward, and from how things going, on a fast track.

What if I were to say all your suggested changes are irrelevant because the population is too low? Would that be causation or effect? That the often meh or outright bad and uncalled for balance updates, and new content has to be drip fed to the people still playing because everyone thinks the game is dead and feels the need to use this excuse to justify to themselves why they're not playing... openly for some reason.

I can't tell you how many times i've seen someone put out some idea for change, and there's almost always that one person who has to say that the game is dead and nobody is playing it. To say that has no impact on the people advocating those ideas for change is a little disingenuous. Being constantly reminded that you're wasting your time only makes people more inclined to be apathetic. That's what makes this particular excuse so deadly. That coupled with the fact that players aren't the only ones using it.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:I think the deadly word is Soon.

If this is the deadly excuse, then that's the deadly lie.

Not sure what is there to suggest. It is not just we do not have enough PvP population, there many other issues. Anet has been dragging their feet on class balance and adding content. Without any major incoming content (and there is none) the path is sealed. If you have good suggestions go ahead. Nothing is stopping you.

My suggestion is we need 9 new elite lines and 9 new weapons, with some major fundamental changes to some class balance systems including: hp pools, boon spam, rip spam, CC spam and condi damage. Is it going to happen? Fuck no.

I am a realistic guy. I know Anet is not willing to invest in the game. It is running on a step above maintenance mode and will continue to sink due decreasing player count. Unless Anet is willing to invest in the game, nothing will change.

[Dante.1508]

Nobody does it because of the population already there..

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@"otto.5684" said:Not sure what is there to suggest. It is not just we do not have enough PvP population, there many other issues. Anet has been dragging their feet on class balance and adding content. Without any major incoming content (and there is none) the path is sealed. If you have good suggestions go ahead. Nothing is stopping you.

I am a realistic guy. I know Anet is not willing to invest in the game. It is running on a step above maintenance mode and will continue to sink due decreasing player count. Unless Anet is willing to invest in the game, nothing will change.

I think it depends on the scope of the change really. There's realistic and unrealistic, but either way requires some degree of effort on Arenanet's behalf. Whether you don't agree with the suggestion or the lack of effort currently going into the game, I just think that saying change is impossible because the population is too low is a toxic and terrible excuse to use that's just going to wound up giving everyone more of the same that got us here to begin with.

If someone had a really far-fetched idea that nobody agreed with, i'm not saying it's not within anyone's right to disagree, but the excuse as to why you don't agree should never be "the population is too low." Subverting that excuse to allow even the smallest changes(Like the DuoQ example I used) have had a substantial impact on how the game is played for better or for worse.

My suggestion is we need 9 new elite lines and 9 new weapons, with some major fundamental changes to some class balance systems including: hp pools, boon spam, rip spam, CC spam and condi damage. Is it going to happen? kitten no.

In terms of what's feasible I think your suggestion is reasonable. An update of that magnitude would only come with a new expansion though, or so i'd assume. I actually think another expansion is very likely given the new LW story.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@"Dante.1508" said:Nobody does it because of the population already there..

Trust me, people are using it. Arenanet itself uses the excuse like I quoted in my OP if that's any proof.

The population was too low for DuoQ by their own words, so they removed it. Then they added it back and in the time it was banned they rationalized that the population was too low to consider a 1-5 TeamQ and/or split queues.

There's a bias in those two examples because they fit an agenda. When they gave us SoloQ only, a lot of people were upset, then they 'solved' the issue they created with the deadly excuse by using the same deadly excuse that got us there. "92% of players SoloQ." Well of course they do when that and DuoQ are the only options and you literally can't play either way without running into the other. That's their response to complaints and suggestions relating to DuoQ after they used the same response just 2 months prior as justification to restrict it. It just seems like a huge contradiction to me. Very unfair, only working when they want it to.

I think that's what makes it such an appealing excuse, and that appeal is what makes it so widely used. Right now, it's truly the perfect excuse if you want nothing to change about the game, yet still don't have the decency to say anything positive about it. Pretty much a small handful of top players that thrive there. i'd say that's who's most likely to use it.