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just a reminder: most MMOs u are charged to change traitlines.


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@"ugrakarma.9416" said:as titles says, for example in Neverwinter from PWE(pay to win entertainment), if u mistakenly pickup wrong traitlines u will need pay real money to "reset" the status. in these games free theorycraft is a luxury that only rich guys do.

Free change of traits its one big suprises to me when i come to GW2, at first, im even was thinking its was a bug or a unitended feature "im doing something wrong?theyre not charging me to change it?".

most mmos...list only one game that has had its fair share of controvecies and may or may not be in a worse state than gw2

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The truth is that a lot of gaming companies are monetizing their games more than old time gamers got used to way back when. Some of those companies are monetizing their games as much as -- or more than -- they can get away with. While I think ANet is in the former group, I don't think they're in the latter group... yet. That opinion may change once I see how much the account wide build storage slots and character equipment templates are going to cost.

@"Seera.5916" said:People aren't made that they are monetizing it in and of itself.

It's a culmination of a few things:

  1. They allowed arcdps to have build templates in it for awhile now. Under the stipulation that they be removed once ANet releases their own version. The creator of arcdps has stated that he will comply and arcdps will no longer have build templates once the official ones go live in about a month.
  2. Arcdps allowed for practically unlimited number of builds (there is a limit I believe, but it's high enough to not matter)
  3. From what I understand arcdps handles some parts of the swapping in a better way than ANet's based on what is known. I believe related around the legendary sigils and runes.
  4. The starting base number you get for build and equipment storage is low for those who would actually be using this feature from what I've seen people say.

Just one or maybe 2 of the above were there, maybe people wouldn't be this upset. But all of them and people are understandably upset at this change.

As far as the ARC issue goes, ANet did not have to allow players to use ARC's build template system at all. However, they did, and now players are upset. Sure there would have been plenty of salt if there had been no access to build templates at all. However, this might be a case of ANet being "nice" and now people are throwing that in their faces. Had ANet not accommodated player desires by allowing ARC templates, the incoming ANet build template system would probably be getting less flak.

And I do mean "less," because some people were going to be upset about any monetization.

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@Substance E.4852 said:

@Firebeard.1746 said:And yes, opting to pay is better than not, i was spending more than a sub fees' worth on cash shop in eso, which is why i was so angry about craft bags. Right now, i'm paying 20 a month at anet. I haven't even decided what i'm spending it on yet, but at least i get to choose instead of having what I get forced on me.

I fail to see how your inability to control your personal spending is a valid criticism of a system

Exactly. If I went to a shop and they were selling a non essential something I really wanted, I would not get 'angry' about it, I would simply decide - is it worth it for me, may even motivate me to save for it.

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The 'freemium' style of GW2 is getting on my nerves the longer the game exists. I support this game and I like to support it. I spent easily a couple of thousand € for this game the past 7 years and I feel a bit annoyed by the fact that I have to pay for every shit I want: bag slots, bank slots, mount skins etc. Of course I did that out of free will and I didn't have to do it. But that they decided to withhold every single mount skin for gemstor shit annoys me. And then even pay for mechanic stuff. In the end I would have payed a third of the price if this game were sub based.

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@Substance E.4852 said:

@Firebeard.1746 said:And yes, opting to pay is better than not, i was spending more than a sub fees' worth on cash shop in eso, which is why i was so angry about craft bags. Right now, i'm paying 20 a month at anet. I haven't even decided what i'm spending it on yet, but at least i get to choose instead of having what I get forced on me.

I fail to see how your inability to control your personal spending is a valid criticism of a system

How does a game demanding more money from me and me quitting as a result mean i'm a wild spender?

For a troll i'll give you 10/10 for mental gymnastics.

I spend an allotted monthly amount to support games i like because i still want them in business. Them randomly deciding to tank my qol for not spending the way they want me to is inviting me to leave. And horrible way of saying thank you for your support. But if you like that sort of abuse feel free to keep taking it. I'm sorry you're spending way too much on the cosmetics you do buy because you can't wait for a crown sale.

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I legit do not get why people are crying about having to play for QoL like they have to with oh Idk bag slots or bank tabs. If you did not see unlocking more slots with gems coming I think you are disillusioned. What is the problem, I see people complaining as if Anet just stabbed them "locking them out" of what they want. Well two things, firstly you still have access to the feature and can use the slots provided. Secondly, get over it you are not entitled to everything free of cost. Look at the gem store. If you care that much but somehow are not able or willing to fork out the required amount for however many extra slots then convert some gold to gems like everyone else.

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@"Kodokuna Akuma.9570" said:I legit do not get why people are crying about having to play for QoL like they have to with oh Idk bag slots or bank tabs. If you did not see unlocking more slots with gems coming I think you are disillusioned. What is the problem, I see people complaining as if Anet just stabbed them "locking them out" of what they want. Well two things, firstly you still have access to the feature and can use the slots provided. Secondly, get over it you are not entitled to everything free of cost. Look at the gem store. If you care that much but somehow are not able or willing to fork out the required amount for however many extra slots then convert some gold to gems like everyone else.

Again it's not just that it's being monetized.

See my previous reply for the reasons.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Firebeard.1746 said:And yes, opting to pay is better than not, i was spending more than a sub fees' worth on cash shop in eso, which is why i was so angry about craft bags. Right now, i'm paying 20 a month at anet. I haven't even decided what i'm spending it on yet, but at least i get to choose instead of having what I get forced on me.

I fail to see how your inability to control your personal spending is a valid criticism of a system

Exactly. If I went to a shop and they were selling a non essential something I really wanted, I would not get 'angry' about it, I would simply decide - is it worth it for me, may even motivate me to save for it.

How does a game demanding more money from me and me quitting as a result mean i'm a wild spender? The craft bags were a ridiculous qol hit. Basically they kept adding more and more crafting materials trying to force you to sub.

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I think most of us would be fairy happy with anet supported build templates and pay for them. But its a implementation wasn't exactly what we thought. Such as unlimited saves, work with legendary gear better. I think a flawless template system behind an 800 gem purchase to unlock account wide would be better received. Not character based purchases.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Firebeard.1746 said:And yes, opting to pay is better than not, i was spending more than a sub fees' worth on cash shop in eso, which is why i was so angry about craft bags. Right now, i'm paying 20 a month at anet. I haven't even decided what i'm spending it on yet, but at least i get to choose instead of having what I get forced on me.

I fail to see how your inability to control your personal spending is a valid criticism of a system

How does a game demanding more money from me and me quitting as a result mean i'm a wild spender?

For a troll i'll give you 10/10 for mental gymnastics.

I spend an allotted monthly amount to support games i like because i still want them in business. Them randomly deciding to tank my qol for not spending the way they want me to is inviting me to leave. And horrible way of saying thank you for your support. But if you like that sort of abuse feel free to keep taking it. I'm sorry you're spending way too much on the cosmetics you do buy because you can't wait for a crown sale.

You already admitted to happily spending more than $15 a month just to spend the money

This is just you making up copes to argue emotion because you don't want to be wrong

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@Substance E.4852 said:

@Firebeard.1746 said:And yes, opting to pay is better than not, i was spending more than a sub fees' worth on cash shop in eso, which is why i was so angry about craft bags. Right now, i'm paying 20 a month at anet. I haven't even decided what i'm spending it on yet, but at least i get to choose instead of having what I get forced on me.

I fail to see how your inability to control your personal spending is a valid criticism of a system

How does a game demanding more money from me and me quitting as a result mean i'm a wild spender?

For a troll i'll give you 10/10 for mental gymnastics.

I spend an allotted monthly amount to support games i like because i still want them in business. Them randomly deciding to tank my qol for not spending the way they want me to is inviting me to leave. And horrible way of saying thank you for your support. But if you like that sort of abuse feel free to keep taking it. I'm sorry you're spending way too much on the cosmetics you do buy because you can't wait for a crown sale.

You already admitted to happily spending more than $15 a month just to spend the money

This is just you making up copes to argue emotion because you don't want to be wrong

Nope. You made assumptions this has always been my behavior and now you're making up more about me to justify being rude.

You gave me crap for complaining about sub fees:

"And seriously, get out of here with this "ew sub fees" kittenPaying $15+ a month because you "choose to" isnt better than a compulsory $15 flat fee just because your favorite game does the former"

And now you're giving me crap about spending a little more than that? And the main point, that i don't like predatory practices just goes WOOSH

I'll spell it out for you: i bought dlcs and cosmetics. And that was my focus. I actually started before craft bags were a thing. I actually did consider, at the time, subbing. But i didn't. I did the math on how much dlcs were costing at the time, as i didn't want to lose them if I chose to lapse my sub the leftover crowns weren't enough to buy the cosmetics i wanted and the game had barely introduced gatcha style cosmetics. So wasn't getting very many crowns to buy cosmetics, thought the cosmetics in game were "meh" and just decided it wasn't worth it. My wakeup call came when i realized i was playing a ridiculous portion of my /played time in my inventory and that's when i realized zenimax/eso sucked. I was also noticing more and more crafting mats being added, in some cases the style components were even coming out with 2 pieces instead of 1 like everything else. I could just feel the bloat caving in on me. And that the problem would only get worse. And i tried lots of things, like being more picky about what i picked up but then it just took too long to loot something and wasn't really solving the problem.

I also started noticing lots of pay to win mechanics in terms of cp farming, both the xp bonus from subbing as well as the xp pots. For someone like me who plays on a limited schedule and hit plateaus easy, it was just more crap.

I do have eso to thank though for helping me get back into wow until the bfa dumpster fire. I'm really glad that happened in time for me to earn mage tower skins on my favorite classes. I'm not against sub fees in a box. But your game has to be be real slick and not screw up. Eso just didn't hit that bar for me of being worth it without the ability to buy the cosmetics i wanted on a budget.

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