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Poll: Build Templates


Mrs Lana.2506

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

I don't see how it could have any impact at allFor last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.How can you say it worked "better" when the official templates haven't even gone live?

Because we have been already told what functionality they will have. And it's way less than what's offered by Arc templates.

Granted, as we know things now, Arc gives more templates, but how can you say that it is better or not? I know from your other posts that you are disappointed with what is being sold, so for you the official templates will have less of what you prefer, but to state that it is better or worse?It gives less options, and is less flexible. The only thing it offers that's an advantage over Arc is gear storage - but only if you haven't been using legendary armor. And the cost of that advantage is being limited to only 6 gear setups, which makes it for me a net negative.

As far as the primary purpose of build template system goes, Arc was a massively superior option to what we'll be getting.

And that's before we get into how prohibitively high the cost for utilizing this new system will be.

But ArcDPS is not allowed to interact with the game. Only function as an overlay. So anets version will be better in the sense that you change everything with 1 click of a button.And if the number of load outs is the problem.. Well.. that's kind of a luxury problem. Most people only have a handful of builds.

The only thing in heavily against is the pricing. This was a key feature of gw1, and free, limitless.So why would they ask money for it now?If they want some development return, make it 3 templates per character, and 20 for the cost of 2000 gems as an account unlock.

On the upside, you can now have templates without ArcDPS.I have never been able to get that add-on running without constantly crashing the game

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:

I don't see how it could have any impact at allFor last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.How can you say it worked "better" when the official templates haven't even gone live?

Because we have been already told what functionality they will have. And it's way less than what's offered by Arc templates.

Granted, as we know things now, Arc gives more templates, but how can you say that it is better or not? I know from your other posts that you are disappointed with what is being sold, so for you the official templates will have less of what you prefer, but to state that it is better or worse?It gives less options, and is less flexible. The only thing it offers that's an advantage over Arc is gear storage - but only if you haven't been using legendary armor. And the cost of that advantage is being limited to only 6 gear setups, which makes it for me a net negative.

As far as the primary purpose of build template system goes, Arc was a massively superior option to what we'll be getting.

And that's before we get into how prohibitively high the cost for utilizing this new system will be.

But ArcDPS is not allowed to interact with the game. Only function as an overlay. So anets version will be better in the sense that you change everything with 1 click of a button.You... haven't used arc templates, did you.

And if the number of load outs is the problem.. Well.. that's kind of a luxury problem. Most people only have a handful of builds.Most people have one, and don't even know what it is. The build template system is not for them, they won't use it, and they definitely weren't the people that were asking for it. As it is, the system is bad
for the very people that were asking for it
.

The only thing in heavily against is the pricing. This was a key feature of gw1, and free, limitless.So why would they ask money for it now?Yes, that, too. But pricing is not the only thing that is lacking, a lot of functionality is also crippled. And i still keep learning new things about this system that disappoint me even more.
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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.If they charge money for it, it's a flat noFor anyone who used Arc, it's rather a massive inconvenience update.

Why, actually?I stopped using arc because it made the game crash constantly.But at the time it was only reading the damage report output.All this update does is quickly swap trait and skill load outs. The only difference is that it swaps multiple traits and skills in one go, rather than selecting everything individually.I don't see how it could have any impact at allFor last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

...and this is the crux of the problem. Arenanet was nice and allowed a 3rd party add-on to be used. I am surprised they ever did that. Had they banned the use, this conversation would not be going on. (I bet they learned their lesson!)

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@Astralporing.1957 said:Do you know, for example, that all 6 gear slots share the same color settings? So, unlike with arc templates, your ability to change gear for cosmetic reasons (or just use cosmetics to visually differentiate different builds, so you immediately see which one you are using now) becomes extremely crippled.Maybe after sifting through all of the drama on the forums this week, the devs will see a point like this and work on a way to make it happen? The showcase on the live stream was an unfinished product. Might they be able to make a change like this within the next few weeks? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not familiar with what it would take. Still, maybe it could be added later after the templates have been released and the team works through the bugs after go-live.

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Imagine if Arenanet developed their own DPS Meter. IT would only count up to 1k DPS and you'd need to pay extra gems to raise that cap! Or need to pay gems to be able to see boon uptime, or combat mechanics or whatever. At least with the build templates coming as they are, there would be a nice answer to anyone asking for Arenanet to implement same functionality as a 3rd party tool ("remember build templates!")

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:Imagine if Arenanet developed their own DPS Meter. IT would only count up to 1k DPS and you'd need to pay extra gems to raise that cap! Or need to pay gems to be able to see boon uptime, or combat mechanics or whatever.(and even after buying every unlock, you would still be able to see only boons to 20 stacks, dps to 25k, and only for up to 5 people)

At least with the build templates coming as they are, there would be a nice answer to anyone asking for Arenanet to implement same functionality as a 3rd party tool ("remember build templates!")Yes. "be careful what you ask for" should probably be a meme for Anet already.

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@Miss Lana.5276 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:This poll would have made more sense if done
after
the release of the feature. ;)

The only thing that would have changed would be "do you think the price is too high" which is another question entirely.

But likely equally as important as the others in the poll.... I hazard a guess that for many players that will become the crux of whether to utilise the templates system or not, not whether one part of it should cost over another part.I am all for proactive maintenance over reactive maintenance of product, but until we know all the ins and outs including the costs, its kinda hard to pick an option at the moment.

The one thing I would never of expected though is to have it entirely free.. convenience costs even in some of the sub based games these days.

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@Tukaram.8256 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.If they charge money for it, it's a flat noFor anyone who used Arc, it's rather a massive inconvenience update.

Why, actually?I stopped using arc because it made the game crash constantly.But at the time it was only reading the damage report output.All this update does is quickly swap trait and skill load outs. The only difference is that it swaps multiple traits and skills in one go, rather than selecting everything individually.I don't see how it could have any impact at allFor last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

...and this is the crux of the problem. Arenanet was nice and allowed a 3rd party add-on to be used. I am surprised they ever did that. Had they banned the use, this conversation would not be going on. (I bet they learned their lesson!)

I really don't get why you are so gleeful about a company turning anti consumer in every thread regarding this topic, just because you are presumably not affected in this specific case and didn't rely on that add on for years already to just enjoy the game, just for it now to be ripped away for a money milking scheme.

Good on you for not relying on build templates. See you when something you enjoy in the game gets cut up and resold for hundreds of euros for a worse experience.

For some of us this patch comes down to reading like: "Build Templates have now been removed from the game, unless you are rich of course, then can spend hundreds of Euros to get some very limited templates back."

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@Asum.4960 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.If they charge money for it, it's a flat noFor anyone who used Arc, it's rather a massive inconvenience update.

Why, actually?I stopped using arc because it made the game crash constantly.But at the time it was only reading the damage report output.All this update does is quickly swap trait and skill load outs. The only difference is that it swaps multiple traits and skills in one go, rather than selecting everything individually.I don't see how it could have any impact at allFor last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

...and this is the crux of the problem. Arenanet was nice and allowed a 3rd party add-on to be used. I am surprised they ever did that. Had they banned the use, this conversation would not be going on. (I bet they learned their lesson!)

I really don't get why you are so gleeful about a company turning anti consumer in every thread regarding this topic, just because you are presumably not affected in this specific case and didn't rely on that add on for years already to just enjoy the game, just for it now to be ripped away for a money milking scheme.

Good on you for not relying on build templates. See you when something you enjoy in the game gets cut up and resold for hundreds of euros for a worse experience.

For some of us this patch comes down to reading like: "Build Templates have now been
removed
from the game, unless you are rich of course, then can spend hundreds of Euros on some very limited templates."

I am not gleeful - I am honestly shocked they ever allowed it. I suppose they had to say they were not responsible if anything happened to your stuff? But seriously, I just amazed they let it continue. And with the outcry now, they may learn not to do it again. Kind of a shame, really. Maybe they can expand it later, if enough people ask for it.

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Did not read the full thread but my opinion on templates, as somebody who plays this game a lot:The current way they are planned to be released is absolutely horrible for the following reasons:

  • Maximum amount of 6 templates per char.I need at least 8 for Rev/Mes and more would be better cause I currently use 13 each. People told me I can fix that by creating multiple chars for the same class but I do not want that. I currently do not have to because there are arc dps templates and I crafted Legendary armor for all my main chars for the exact same reason. I can not live with the current amount of planned maximum templates.
  • 400 gems per gear templateI am a so called "hardcore player". All I do is raiding and sometimes dungeons/fractals and I main the three classes Guardian, Rev and Mesmer. Currently I would need to buy at least 22 templates for those three classes which is 8800 gems. 8000 gems cost about 110€ if you buy them from Anet.I am not saying I want free templates, please anet take my money, but please make it somewhat affordable. Offer build templates as a full package or smth. A good option would be a full template package: 4000 gems for 10 total templates on every single char. and make people able to buy more of that. The reason you plan to make them 400gems/template is because it saves inventory space if I understood everything correctly. I dont need that. I crafted 3 legendary armors on my three main classes for that exact reason. I want templates, not inventory space.
  • Templates are overwritten if you swap gear while using a templateThis is just annoying. Templates should be the base for something, that you can always go back to. Just think about Microsoft World series letter templates, you wouldnt want those to change after you used them. You would want to use a template, fill it out and send letter. Next time you need series letter you just want to open the same template again. Gw2 templates should be the same.

I hope somebody from anet will read this and make the deciding ppl aware of the situation, that 6 templates arent enough and 400 gems/template is too much for anybdy.

tl;dr Yes I want templates and yes I am willing to pay for them but please dont make them useless or way too overpriced.

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@Tukaram.8256 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.If they charge money for it, it's a flat noFor anyone who used Arc, it's rather a massive inconvenience update.

Why, actually?I stopped using arc because it made the game crash constantly.But at the time it was only reading the damage report output.All this update does is quickly swap trait and skill load outs. The only difference is that it swaps multiple traits and skills in one go, rather than selecting everything individually.I don't see how it could have any impact at allFor last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

...and this is the crux of the problem. Arenanet was nice and allowed a 3rd party add-on to be used. I am surprised they ever did that. Had they banned the use, this conversation would not be going on. (I bet they learned their lesson!)

I really don't get why you are so gleeful about a company turning anti consumer in every thread regarding this topic, just because you are presumably not affected in this specific case and didn't rely on that add on for years already to just enjoy the game, just for it now to be ripped away for a money milking scheme.

Good on you for not relying on build templates. See you when something you enjoy in the game gets cut up and resold for hundreds of euros for a worse experience.

For some of us this patch comes down to reading like: "Build Templates have now been
removed
from the game, unless you are rich of course, then can spend hundreds of Euros on some very limited templates."

I am not gleeful - I am honestly shocked they ever allowed it. I suppose they had to say they were not responsible if anything happened to your stuff? But seriously, I just amazed they let it continue. And with the outcry now, they may learn not to do it again. Kind of a shame, really. Maybe they can expand it later, if enough people ask for it.

Build Templates are an essentially required functionality for hardcore players, as without it players in endgame content would have to stop every 5 minutes to swap builds (or characters) between bosses or fractals, taking up multiple minutes, which would very quickly get frustrating to a point of the content not being enjoyable to play anymore, especially with having to keep track of up to 20 builds and build variations for every profession for each type of boss and type of content.

That's why they allowed Arcdps. They knew it was essential for that part of the player base. It just seems like now they don't care anymore.

The fact that the part you are shocked by is that they ever did boggles my mind tbh.

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@Asum.4960 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:It's fine as is. I never really needed or. It's just a minor convenience update.If they charge money for it, it's a flat noFor anyone who used Arc, it's rather a massive inconvenience update.

Why, actually?I stopped using arc because it made the game crash constantly.But at the time it was only reading the damage report output.All this update does is quickly swap trait and skill load outs. The only difference is that it swaps multiple traits and skills in one go, rather than selecting everything individually.I don't see how it could have any impact at allFor last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.

...and this is the crux of the problem. Arenanet was nice and allowed a 3rd party add-on to be used. I am surprised they ever did that. Had they banned the use, this conversation would not be going on. (I bet they learned their lesson!)

I really don't get why you are so gleeful about a company turning anti consumer in every thread regarding this topic, just because you are presumably not affected in this specific case and didn't rely on that add on for years already to just enjoy the game, just for it now to be ripped away for a money milking scheme.

Good on you for not relying on build templates. See you when something you enjoy in the game gets cut up and resold for hundreds of euros for a worse experience.

For some of us this patch comes down to reading like: "Build Templates have now been
removed
from the game, unless you are rich of course, then can spend hundreds of Euros on some very limited templates."

I am not gleeful - I am honestly shocked they ever allowed it. I suppose they had to say they were not responsible if anything happened to your stuff? But seriously, I just amazed they let it continue. And with the outcry now, they may learn not to do it again. Kind of a shame, really. Maybe they can expand it later, if enough people ask for it.

Build Templates are an essentially required functionality for hardcore players, as without it players in endgame content would have to stop every 5 minutes to swap builds (or characters) between bosses or fractals, taking up multiple minutes, which would very quickly get frustrating to a point of the content not being enjoyable to play anymore, especially with having to keep track of up to 20 builds and build variations for every profession for each type of boss and type of content.

That's why they allowed Arcdps. They knew it was essential for that part of the player base. It just seems like now they don't care anymore.

The fact that the part you are shocked by is that they ever did boggles my mind tbh.

Hell, switching from power to condi bs manually takes me maybe 1 minute tops, and that still feels like wasted time when raiding, especially in groups that one-shot the boss.

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@onid.4650 said:

  • Templates are overwritten if you swap gear while using a templateThis is just annoying. Templates should be the base for something, that you can always go back to. Just think about Microsoft World series letter templates, you wouldnt want those to change after you used them. You would want to use a template, fill it out and send letter. Next time you need series letter you just want to open the same template again. Gw2 templates should be the same.That's something they made confusing with their naming. The truth is that there are only 24 build templates - the account-wide ones. The 6 slots per character are not true templates. They are hotkey loadout assignments. That of course means that if you do want to use account-wide templates for your characters, you should better reserve at least one of the loadout slots for them (because loading one of the templates from template storage will overwrite that loadout setup, erasing everything that was in it before).

This of course means that we do end up with only 24 build templates for the whole account. Less than 3 per each class. Which is nowhere even close to being enough.

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:Imagine if Arenanet developed their own DPS Meter. IT would only count up to 1k DPS and you'd need to pay extra gems to raise that cap! Or need to pay gems to be able to see boon uptime, or combat mechanics or whatever. At least with the build templates coming as they are, there would be a nice answer to anyone asking for Arenanet to implement same functionality as a 3rd party tool ("remember build templates!")

That's old knowledge for anyone who has played other MMOs and thought about it for more than half a second. I have yet to see the game where addons, as long as they were available, did not massively improve interface and other systems. We can feel fortunate that ANet most likely will never implement a dps meter. Would be the same joke as their general stance towards addons.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

  • Templates are overwritten if you swap gear while using a templateThis is just annoying. Templates should be the base for something, that you can always go back to. Just think about Microsoft World series letter templates, you wouldnt want those to change after you used them. You would want to use a template, fill it out and send letter. Next time you need series letter you just want to open the same template again. Gw2 templates should be the same.That's something they made confusing with their naming. The truth is that there are only 24 build templates - the account-wide ones. The 6 slots per character are not true templates. They are hotkey loadout assignments. That of course means that if you do want to use account-wide templates for your characters, you should better reserve at least one of the loadout slots for them (because loading one of the templates from template storage will overwrite that loadout setup, erasing everything that was in it before).

This of course means that we
do
end up with only 24 build templates for the whole account. Which is nowhere even close to being enough.

Ok thanks for clarifying that. How many gear templates are there going to be? Cause build templates themselves are kinda pointless without gear templates.

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@onid.4650 said:

  • Templates are overwritten if you swap gear while using a templateThis is just annoying. Templates should be the base for something, that you can always go back to. Just think about Microsoft World series letter templates, you wouldnt want those to change after you used them. You would want to use a template, fill it out and send letter. Next time you need series letter you just want to open the same template again. Gw2 templates should be the same.That's something they made confusing with their naming. The truth is that there are only 24 build templates - the account-wide ones. The 6 slots per character are not true templates. They are hotkey loadout assignments. That of course means that if you do want to use account-wide templates for your characters, you should better reserve at least one of the loadout slots for them (because loading one of the templates from template storage will overwrite that loadout setup, erasing everything that was in it before).

This of course means that we
do
end up with only 24 build templates for the whole account. Which is nowhere even close to being enough.

Ok thanks for clarifying that. How many gear templates are there going to be? Cause build templates themselves are kinda pointless without gear templates.None. There are no gear templates at all. There's something they call "gear template", but it is (similarily as with builds) a hotkey gear loadout. Again, if you change anything in your active slot, it automatically gets "saved" for that slot. think of it as weapon switching, just with the whole gear set.You get 6 tabs per character (2 free, 4 purchasable) for those.
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I voted "other".

I don't think individual features should be paid for (i.e. pay for 1 slot of a build template, or 1 slot of a gear template on a per character basis.) However, I do not think that this should all be free either. This should have just been part of a massive feature package sold in an expansion as one of the 'expansion-level-features'. The way this has been designed is reminiscent of TERA and other Korean FTP MMO's that purposefully program their MMO to be inconvenient and then sell layering 'conveniences' to overcome it.

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@Randulf.7614 said:Community for 7 years: Give us build templates - you can even monetise it with extra slots through the gemstore!Anet: Sorry its late, here we are.Community: How dare you

It's fine for them to monetise extra slots on this in my opinion. I'm just glad it's here after such a ridiculous wait

I don't completely disagree with you. This would have gone better if they didn't allow the 3rd party program when they planned to make their own version and charge players.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

I don't see how it could have any impact at allFor last 2 years there was an additional module in ArcDPS that gave us build templates functionality. And it worked better than what Anet is now introducing. Unfortunately, devs asked Arc author to discontinue that module when GW2 build templates will go in.How can you say it worked "better" when the official templates haven't even gone live?

Because we have been already told what functionality they will have. And it's way less than what's offered by Arc templates.

Granted, as we know things now, Arc gives more templates, but how can you say that it is better or not? I know from your other posts that you are disappointed with what is being sold, so for you the official templates will have less of what you prefer, but to state that it is better or worse?It gives less options, and is less flexible. The only thing it offers that's an advantage over Arc is gear storage - but only if you haven't been using legendary armor. And the cost of that advantage is being limited to only 6 gear setups, which makes it for me a net negative.

As far as the primary purpose of build template system goes, Arc was a massively superior option to what we'll be getting.

And that's before we get into how prohibitively high the cost for utilizing this new system will be.

But ArcDPS is not allowed to interact with the game. Only function as an overlay. So anets version will be better in the sense that you change everything with 1 click of a button.You... haven't used arc templates, did you.

And if the number of load outs is the problem.. Well.. that's kind of a luxury problem. Most people only have a handful of builds.Most people have one, and don't even know what it is. The build template system is not for them, they won't use it, and they definitely weren't the people that were asking for it. As it is, the system is bad
for the very people that were asking for it
.

The only thing in heavily against is the pricing. This was a key feature of gw1, and free, limitless.So why would they ask money for it now?Yes, that, too. But pricing is not the only thing that is lacking, a lot of functionality is also crippled. And i still keep learning new things about this system that disappoint me even more.

About half a year, maybe less, since i last used it.I download it occasionally during the big balance updates to practice rotations on the DPS meter.But that's only for a few days before i remove it again, because as i said, ArcDPS is constantly making the game crash

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Not having build templates wasnt a big problem before so how is having them now is. Sure its convenience factor is fantastic. But we all should know by now that you pay for convenience. The minority always yells the loudest. Who wants to hear a satisfied customer. This is america baby and we love to over-rage over nothing.

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@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:Not having build templates wasnt a big problem before so how is having them now is. Sure its convenience factor is fantastic. But we all should know by now that you pay for convenience. The minority always yells the loudest. Who wants to hear a satisfied customer. This is america baby and we love to over-rage over nothing.

People already had and regurlarly used build templates....You can't ignore that, just because you got on fine without them.

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@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:Not having build templates wasnt a big problem before so how is having them now is. Sure its convenience factor is fantastic. But we all should know by now that you pay for convenience. The minority always yells the loudest. Who wants to hear a satisfied customer. This is america baby and we love to over-rage over nothing.

Not having build Templates was a major problem, which is why people turned to (and created) add-on's such a Arc to solve it when Anet wouldn't or couldn't.It's not just convenience, it's essential for hardcore players, especially if they are engaged in multiple gamemodes and even more so if one of them is Raids, which generally requires quite the array of builds to be efficient at all the different bosses. Put on top of that that Fractals require different stat compositions due to the free stats you get there, and you have a nightmarish amount of gear compositions to remember without an extensive template functionality, that just gets unmanageable over time as you get more engaged in that content.

Hardcore players might be in the minority, but we have plenty of reason to yell here, as this feature as it is now, will make playing certain content, or playing much different types of content an utter chore.Last time I checked, new "convenience" features shouldn't make the game more of a chore, neither should they then charge exorbitant amounts of money to then just be a lesser chore, but still a chore. I'm pretty sure that is the opposite of convenience.

I'm also pretty sure these forums are international, with most users not being american, considering GW2's demographic is mostly European.

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