[merged] I want to keep using Arc Build Templates... :/

[Bladestrom.6425]

@SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:"Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

A better analogy:

Someone indicates that they are intending to open an amusement park on their property. A neighborhood kid asks if he can put up some free temporary skate trick ramps and such in a corner of the property so that some kids he knows can play around while waiting for the official park. The owner of the property says, 'sure, you can mess around until the officieal opening,' but only until then. The property owner keeps to their agreement to allow the kids to use their property for free for the entire time they worked on their official park.

Except ArcDPS has had build templates way before Anet has even considered making build templates. It wasn't until Anet finally decided to make build templates that they told ArcDPS they can't have them anymore, after ArcDPS has already been doing build templates for years before Anet even considered doing it.

So it's more like, those kids have turned the area into their own personal skate park for awhile now, and now the owner is going to build their own skate park there instead and they have to leave, but if they want to continue skating there, they have to pay admission now. The owner basically saw the kids were having fun with their own skate park, and decided that they shouldn't be allowed to do that without paying money, so they put a stop to it and built their own skate park that you have to pay to use.

8> @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:"Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

A better analogy:

Someone indicates that they are intending to open an amusement park on their property. A neighborhood kid asks if he can put up some free temporary skate trick ramps and such in a corner of the property so that some kids he knows can play around while waiting for the official park. The owner of the property says, 'sure, you can mess around until the officieal opening,' but only until then. The property owner keeps to their agreement to allow the kids to use their property for free for the entire time they worked on their official park.

Except ArcDPS has had build templates way before Anet has even considered making build templates. It wasn't until Anet finally decided to make build templates that they told ArcDPS they can't have them anymore, after ArcDPS has already been doing build templates for years before Anet even considered doing it.

So it's more like, those kids have turned the area into their own personal skate park for awhile now, and now the owner is going to build their own skate park there instead and they have to leave, but if they want to continue skating there, they have to pay admission now. The owner basically saw the kids were having fun with their own skate park, and decided that they shouldn't be allowed to do that without paying money, so they put a stop to it and built their own skate park that you have to pay to use.

That's life and customer demand. Obviously demand meant the majority did not want to use arcdps.

[Astralporing.1957]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:That's life and customer demand. Obviously demand meant the majority did not want to use arcdps.Because they did not want or need templates in general?

[Trise.2865]

@SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:"Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels on our own for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

It is, but ok. Here's a more genre-specific, but identical analogy:

Busted hackers:"Please let me keep the cheats I installed"

[perilisk.1874]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:"Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

A better analogy:

Someone indicates that they are intending to open an amusement park on their property. A neighborhood kid asks if he can put up some free temporary skate trick ramps and such in a corner of the property so that some kids he knows can play around while waiting for the official park. The owner of the property says, 'sure, you can mess around until the officieal opening,' but only until then. The property owner keeps to their agreement to allow the kids to use their property for free for the entire time they worked on their official park.

Not the best analogy, since there's an obvious quality improvement from a skate ramp to an amusement park (plus they are very different), yet one of the recurrent complaints about Arenanet's implementation is that it is substantially less capable than the current free offering, even if one were to buy everything offered. You might at least hope that it's a little more stable, but it's not like there haven't been some fairly major bugs and oversights in official releases lately.

[Saniyah.1984]

@cgMatt.5162 said:It's unfortunate but people are naturally going to be upset with this because it was previously a free feature in unlimited quantities (and right now, looks like a better implementation than the planned monetized version). Even more so upsetting because deltaconnected will no longer be able to update arcdps build templates once this comes out.

It look like you have to used 2 equipent tabs for legendary thingies even tho 1 legendary could have any stat/rune you have to spend two tabs for two buldsIf they added stats to the build templates you would not have added the same equipments in more tabs, It felt like they added artificial limits that are more than just number of tabs. :(The new version seems worse and costed more. Could you named any product you bought that you dont mind paying for to have downgraded?

@kharmin.7683 said:Your proposal does not make any business sense for Anet.

Keeping customers happy is perfectly sensible business strategy :P

[kharmin.7683]

@"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

Except ArcDPS has had build templates way before Anet has even considered making build templates. It wasn't until Anet finally decided to make build templates that they told ArcDPS they can't have them anymore, after ArcDPS has already been doing build templates for years before Anet even considered doing it.According to what was said in the live stream, they've been working on templates for around 2 years. Arc has already said that to get "approved" for use, that it would have to go once the official templates were in place. That was the deal.

[Astralporing.1957]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

Except ArcDPS has had build templates way before Anet has even considered making build templates. It wasn't until Anet finally decided to make build templates that they told ArcDPS they can't have them anymore, after ArcDPS has already been doing build templates for years before Anet even considered doing it.According to what was said in the live stream, they've been working on templates for around 2 years.Yes, they

started

working on them some time after Delta has already released first version of his templates module.

[Blude.6812]

@vyncius.6105 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Why won't arc build work anymore?

Delta (arc creator) had agreenment with anet that he will not update his templates, when anet release theirs

Good to hear! Keep stuff in house. DPS meters next???

[SpyderArachnid.5619]

@Trise.2865 said:

@SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

@Trise.2865 said:Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:"Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels on our own for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

It is, but ok. Here's a more genre-specific, but identical analogy:

Busted hackers:"Please let me keep the cheats I installed"

Again, terrible analogy. There was no cheating/hacking involved. It used the API provided by Anet. No cheats, no hacks. It was an addon, which Anet allows.

You're trying to make ArcDPS sound like an illegal third-party program that cheaters/hackers use. Which it wasn't at all. There was no cheating, no hacking, no stealing, etc. They used the addon API to make a feature that Anet didn't have. Anet decided they wanted to profit from said feature and make it themselves, so they shut down ArcDPS so people would have to use Anet's feature instead of ArcDPS', making people pay for what they already had for free.

Stop trying to act like it was cheating/hacking/stealing. It was a perfectly legal addon that anyone was allowed to use.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

@Trise.2865 said:

@SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

@Trise.2865 said:Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:"Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels on our own for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

It is, but ok. Here's a more genre-specific, but identical analogy:

Busted hackers:"Please let me keep the cheats I installed"

To consider arc a cheat you gotta be naive and have a clear lack of understanding of what arc did.

[TPMN.1483]

I would rather keep ArcDPS - 6 gear slots wont be enough for my main.

[Healix.5819]

@ZDragon.3046 said:didnt that get like hundreds of people banned for like half a year????!?!?!??! :astonished:

No, and no one except for the creator was ever banned for using BDGM, which openly defied ArenaNet by including the illegal features.

[TexZero.7910]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Schwarzwald.9078" said:

That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

Now i don't want to be that guy but i guess i have to.

Anet had build templates in GW1 and those were not monitized, could be shared and even uploaded/downloaded to a folder on your pc.Why should this new system be monitized (specifically the trait system) ?Most rational people don't mind them taking the Armor Templates and monitizing that because it takes those items out of personal inventory which is a godsend. But traits ? That's a bit of a special move especially given that it doesn't unlock anything or do anything beyond the previous functionality of a system that's now over 10 years old.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Schwarzwald.9078" said:

That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

Now i don't want to be that guy but i guess i have to.

Anet had build templates in GW1 and those were not monitized, could be shared and even uploaded/downloaded to a folder on your pc.Why should this new system be monitized (specifically the trait system) ?Most rational people don't mind them taking the Armor Templates and monitizing that because it takes those items out of personal inventory which is a godsend. But traits ? That's a bit of a special move especially given that it doesn't unlock anything or do anything beyond the previous functionality of a system that's now over 10 years old.

1. Gw1 was a different game with different expenses.
2. Its not 'monetised', it's a non essential feature that was desired that anet built and has offered in the gem shop. When you see a thing in a shop in rl you do not complain if it is monetised, what you do is decide if it is worth the cost to you.
3. You can get it for free by trading gold for gems.

All this complaining is self entitled nonsense, you play for free, it's a convenience item, buy it or don't. Honestly, by this logic we would only be happy if anet sold stuff in the gem shop that we don't want.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

2. Its not 'monetised', it's a non essential feature that was desired that anet built and has offered in the gem shop. When you see a thing in a shop in rl you do not complain if it is monetised, what you do is decide if it is worth the cost to you.And what exactly would constitute an "essential feature" according to you? Because as i see it, with this way of thinking you can explain away putting in gemshop practically anything.

[ZDragon.3046]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

@susana.7814 said:

@yoni.7015 said:Why open another thread? There is an existing one.

Probably because people want to actually be heard.

That’s definitely part of it, but also yoni you’re correct there are multiple topics on build templates but this is more about arc build templates and how it will be affected.

If there was a way to keep arc builds I wouldn’t have any issues.

You do understand from a business standpoint how much this does not make any sense. There would not be any issues for you but there would be issues for anet its kind of a half and half exchange here

Issue for you is that you wont get to keep arc templatesIssue for anet is they have to deal with all the unhappy customers who dont like how they are making the system.

[ZDragon.3046]

@MoonT.6845 said:

@Lottie.5370 said:

Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Healix.5819 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:didnt that get like hundreds of people banned for like half a year????!?!?!??! :astonished:

No, and no one except for the creator was ever banned for using BDGM, which openly defied ArenaNet by including the illegal features.

So wha was the big ban wave that hit people wide and far across open world and pvp?IT was some 3rd party thing that allowed people to look at other peoples traits etc

Because you cant sit here and tell me there was not a ban wave... i 100% remember that and it was certainly more than 1 person.

If you can just clarify this for me. Thanks

[Asum.4960]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@MoonT.6845 said:

@Lottie.5370 said:

Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

I can once again list off some builds, taking my guardian as example.

DH Power DPS (Raids/Fractals), which consists of Berserker gear with Scholar Runes, requires separate Build Template.FB condition DPS (Raids), which is a Viper/Sinister/Grieving mix with Balthazar Runes, requires separate Build Template.Condition Quickbrand (Raids), which is full Viper with Firebrand Runes, mostly shares build with FB condition DPS, but a separate build template as now in Arc would still be handy.Power Quickbrand (Fractals), which is a Scholar/Diviner mix with Scholar Runes, requires separate Build Template.Healbrand (Raids), which is full Harrier with Monk Runes, requires separate Build Template.Healbrand (Fractals), which is a Harrier/Magi mix with Monk Runes, shares build template with the Raids version for the most part.different versions for Virtues and Radiance for Healbrand, which wouldn't be too much trouble to select by hand without Templates, but nice to haveTank Healbrand (Raids), which is full Minstrel with Monk Runes, shares Build Template with Healbrand for the most part.Open World FB (OW), which is a Marauder/Berserker/Diviner mix with Firework Runes, with multiple other versions (ie Templates) depending on what I want to play, , requires multiple separate Build Templates.Zerg FB (WvW), which could share a Gear Template with Tank Healbrand, but requires a different build Template.Roaming FB (WvW), of those I have multiple Templates depending on what I feel like playing/trying out/to iterate on as build.Core Guard (PvP/WvW), a Valkyrie/Berserker Mix, requires separate Build Template.Sup Bunker FB (PvP), separate build Template for PvPHybrid FB (PvP), seperate build Template for PvP

That's just a glimpse of my templates for one character on what I deem most essential (generally see play every week at multiple points), with there being plenty more I could awkwardly mix and match together to consolidate Templates or which I play more rarely, but just doing one Shift+Click in arc and loading them on demand obviously is far superior.And still it's too many to bring into Anet's templates, even if I had the cash to spare to unlock all these slots on all my characters that I need for smooth and enjoyable playing.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Asum.4960 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@MoonT.6845 said:

@Lottie.5370 said:

Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

I can once again list off some builds, taking my guardian as example.

DH Power DPS

(Raids/Fractals), which consists of Berserker gear with Scholar Runes, requires separate Build Template.

FB condition DPS

(Raids), which is a Viper/Sinister/Grieving mix with Balthazar Runes, requires separate Build Template.

Condition Quickbrand

(Raids), which is full Viper with Firebrand Runes, mostly shares build with FB condition DPS, but a separate build template as now in Arc would still be handy.

Power Quickbrand

(Fractals), which is a Scholar/Diviner mix with Scholar Runes, requires separate Build Template.

Healbrand

(Raids), which is full Harrier with Monk Runes, requires separate Build Template.

Healbrand

(Fractals), which is a Harrier/Magi mix with Monk Runes, shares build template with the Raids version for the most part.different versions for Virtues and Radiance for Healbrand, which wouldn't be too much trouble to select by hand without Templates, but nice to have

Tank Healbrand

(Raids), which is full Minstrel with Monk Runes, shares Build Template with Healbrand for the most part.

Open World FB

(OW), which is a Marauder/Berserker/Diviner mix with Firework Runes, with multiple other versions (ie Templates) depending on what I want to play, , requires multiple separate Build Templates.

Zerg FB

(WvW), which could share a Gear Template with Tank Healbrand, but requires a different build Template.

Roaming FB

(WvW), of those I have multiple Templates depending on what I feel like playing/trying out/to iterate on as build.

Core Guard

(PvP/WvW), a Valkyrie/Berserker Mix, requires separate Build Template.

Sup Bunker FB

(PvP), separate build Template for PvP

Hybrid FB

(PvP), seperate build Template for PvP

That's just a glimpse of my templates for one character on what I deem most essential (generally see play every week at multiple points), with there being plenty more I could awkwardly mix and match together to consolidate Templates or which I play more rarely, but just doing one Shift+Click in arc and loading them on demand obviously is far superior.And still it's too many to bring into Anet's templates, even if I had the cash to spare to unlock all these slots on all my characters that I need for smooth and enjoyable playing.

I see well i would like to ask you a few more questions if you don't mind. I'll start with just these because they're probably the most relevant that would lead to any others.

Question 1For the sake of humoring me what would your alternative work around had been to carry this many builds for your character, What would you have done as a work around if arc templates would have never been allowed in the first place?

Question 2Did you know going into the use of arc templates before hand that arc templates were a temporary and not a permanent solution?

[Asum.4960]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@MoonT.6845 said:

@"Lottie.5370" said:

Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

I can once again list off some builds, taking my guardian as example.

DH Power DPS

(Raids/Fractals), which consists of Berserker gear with Scholar Runes, requires separate Build Template.

FB condition DPS

(Raids), which is a Viper/Sinister/Grieving mix with Balthazar Runes, requires separate Build Template.

Condition Quickbrand

(Raids), which is full Viper with Firebrand Runes, mostly shares build with FB condition DPS, but a separate build template as now in Arc would still be handy.

Power Quickbrand

(Fractals), which is a Scholar/Diviner mix with Scholar Runes, requires separate Build Template.

Healbrand

(Raids), which is full Harrier with Monk Runes, requires separate Build Template.

Healbrand

(Fractals), which is a Harrier/Magi mix with Monk Runes, shares build template with the Raids version for the most part.different versions for Virtues and Radiance for Healbrand, which wouldn't be too much trouble to select by hand without Templates, but nice to have

Tank Healbrand

(Raids), which is full Minstrel with Monk Runes, shares Build Template with Healbrand for the most part.

Open World FB

(OW), which is a Marauder/Berserker/Diviner mix with Firework Runes, with multiple other versions (ie Templates) depending on what I want to play, , requires multiple separate Build Templates.

Zerg FB

(WvW), which could share a Gear Template with Tank Healbrand, but requires a different build Template.

Roaming FB

(WvW), of those I have multiple Templates depending on what I feel like playing/trying out/to iterate on as build.

Core Guard

(PvP/WvW), a Valkyrie/Berserker Mix, requires separate Build Template.

Sup Bunker FB

(PvP), separate build Template for PvP

Hybrid FB

(PvP), seperate build Template for PvP

That's just a glimpse of my templates for one character on what I deem most essential (generally see play every week at multiple points), with there being plenty more I could awkwardly mix and match together to consolidate Templates or which I play more rarely, but just doing one Shift+Click in arc and loading them on demand obviously is far superior.And still it's too many to bring into Anet's templates, even if I had the cash to spare to unlock all these slots on all my characters that I need for smooth and enjoyable playing.

I see well i would like to ask you a few more questions if you don't mind. I'll start with just these because they're probably the most relevant that would lead to any others.

Question 1For the sake of humoring me what would your alternative work around had been to carry this many builds for your character, What would you have done as a work around if arc templates would have never been allowed in the first place?

There was no alternative. I started using Arc over 2 years ago in tandem with getting into Raiding or rather shortly after, as I noticed very quickly that the constant swapping without Arc templates just wasn't feasible or fun, especially as someone who started covering many different roles from boss to boss.

Is suppose the "alternative" for me would have been not playing or not getting into that type of content due to getting too annoyed by that aspect of it.

Question 2Did you know going into the use of arc templates before hand that arc templates were a temporary and not a permanent solution?

No, I started using Arc long before official templates were announced, with the sentiment in the community being that they would likely never come.Unfortunately we were wrong.

[Astralporing.1957]

@ZDragon.3046 said:Issue for you is that you wont get to keep arc templatesIssue for anet is they have to deal with all the unhappy customers who dont like how they are making the system.Notice, how the second issue doesn't disappear with arc templates gone. Quite the opposite.First issue however does disappear if Arc remains a solution.

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Healix.5819 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:didnt that get like hundreds of people banned for like half a year????!?!?!??! :astonished:

No, and no one except for the creator was ever banned for using BDGM, which openly defied ArenaNet by including the illegal features.

So wha was the big ban wave that hit people wide and far across open world and pvp?IT was some 3rd party thing that allowed people to look at other peoples traits etcIt had nothing to do with Arc. They were looking at

game hacks

(like speed hacks, etc). One of the programs that was mentioned was Cheat Engine, iirc. Arc was

not

among the programs they were looking for, as at that point it was completely allowed.

[Despond.2174]

Is there an official word with Anet that ARC is 100% supported and fine? I know it's always been unofficially fine but they've never gone out and said anything.

[Healix.5819]

@"ZDragon.3046" said:So wha was the big ban wave that hit people wide and far across open world and pvp?

The last ban wave targeted specific cheat programs (which they were crazy enough to publicly post) and any program they couldn't access / generate a signature for, which only guaranteed false bans. The best part is, they believed they couldn't be wrong and refused to even verify these bans, only to quietly admit that they were at fault months later, which I believe was thanks to a GDPR request.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Despond.2174 said:Is there an official word with Anet that ARC is 100% supported and fine? I know it's always been unofficially fine but they've never gone out and said anything.Supported? No, it's not Anet's addon so why should they support it? Allowed? Yes, there have been dev statements to that end. Specifically, for the last 2 years, Arc developer has been continuously working in tandem with Anet representatives to make sure his addon remains compliant with their requirements.