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First Take, Death Magic Rework


Lily.1935

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@Lily.1935 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:A good read

Unholy Sanctuary could have been re worked and you are right that it is the biggest shame trait in the whole list.

The activate shroud part of it is not really the focus i zero in onI would have liked to see it so that it always heals you over time in combat with the heal effect scaling up based on Death's Carapace stacks perhaps with increased healing potential when shroud is active.

While Corrupter's Fervor will likely be the biggest benefit to hybrid or condi buildsUnholy Sanctuary really could have been the big player for power users only who wanted a bit more defense or raw sustain. Then you could run that with Deathly strength to further help compensate the losses you take from swapping death magic for say blood, or soul reaping.

I also agreeMinion traits could have just been wrapped up into 1 trait freeing up some spaceSoul comp still being useless almost everywhere as a on death only style trait.And lack of actual defensive options like stability at high stacks of Carapace could have made this much more worth wild.

I personally dont see myself using this as some one who favors power builds because the gain from this line does not cover the loss of what ever you give up for it. In short its as you said I see this too punishing to take in almost every situation.

I will no doubt test it next week myself but i dont have high hopes for this.

I'd Say corrupter's Fervor is the best trait for power too. Power builds on the necromancer use a lot of conditions. just because they don't favor damaging conditions doesn't mean they don't use them. Reaper is all about vuln and chill and you also have fear, weakness, blind, crippling to name a few. This isn't hard to pull off even fore a power build. Easily, this is the best option for you no matter what build you use baring a minion build.

Right i think it depends on what game mode you look at though. Power reaper in pve (if your setup is closer to the end game meta) will not have as many conditions and your condition application will be a bit more bursty in a common rotation mainly coming from the gs auto, death spiral, soul spiral, and reaper 5.With scourge in a wvw or any game mode really example trading of soul reaping for death magic could be a bit closer to being even however in the case of reaper which heavily benefits from soul reaping and spite I see it as a bit more iffy. Will the utility and damage bonuses = out to the increased sustain gained from the line. I'm thinking it probably wont.

In pvp reaper might get a bit more use out of it as in pvp you do things that you generally would not do in a pve rotation. Generally you dont axe auto in pve very much but in pvp you most certainly would do it alot more making vuln application much more applicable, You also wouldn't run the axe/focus trait in pvp you would run bitter chill for even more vuln. So i can understand where you are coming from but not in every game mode does this example make sense.

Overall you are still correct it is the most bang for your buck in trait options but it wont nearly be as effective depending on the game mode.

Vuln, chill, blind and cripple are extremely common for reaper. As well as poison from death spiral. I think its far more common than you think. Maybe if you're using minions that die. it could be an argument. But there is absolutely no reason for Unholy Sanctuary.

In its current form no.IF it was actually updated or changed then yes it could provide generous sustain in spvp more so than corruptors fervor for core and reaper builds through hp replenishment.Thats a really phat "IF" though. I would opt for a few hundred hp per second over increased toughness but in this current reality the trait is still weaker than regeneration.

While the conditions you called out are common it still depends on the content and game mode you are playing. As not every set up for optimal reaper uses over killing amounts of those conditions. I think those conditions are more applicable to spvp and wvw more so than pve as reaper needs not worrying about applying vuln for pve group content for example its better off opting for more damage. You also dont really need to worry about applying chill yourself in pve group content unless you see that the chill up time is low and falling off consistently which lowers your damage.

I definitely still agree with you CF is the most bang for you buck its still the best option but i really do think that if they put a bit of love into Unholy it could have potentially been a better option for pure power sustain.

Those are the passive conditions that the reaper brings. Its just a part of their kit at all times unless greatsword isn't included. Which is possible. Unholy Sanctuary honestly shouldn't exist. We should have a more supportive option. And Honestly, after testing it a bit, to get a feel. The entire trait line feels clunky. The extra defense is nice but the sacrifice you need to make to get it is just too much. And I was right about my prediction of an Average of 15 stacks. You can push to 30 super easily, but maintaining is closer to 15. Which I personally think Corruptor's Fervor should also pulse a single stack of Stability along with the protection. At the moment it feels underwhelming as a grandmaster.

Death as a whole is still quite underwhelming. Which is a shame. You sacrifice too much by taking it. The passive damage bonus's from spite are just much better and the recovery from blood is just better imo. Which is a bit strange to say since normally I feel recovery is worse than defense, but from the necromancer's design they'd almost rather have the recovery since they don't have invuln or blocks. But that's an argument i could be convinced of otherwise.

Yeah thats how i felt it overall about it the sustain gained is minimal at least in spvp and having more offensive pressure provides a better defense than death does with its toughness increases.Toughness is nice but overall toughness never felt like it done a whole lot for me so having a potential extra 600 for a short time is not doing much.Do note though when combined with blood magic and vampuric wells your protection up time can go rather high but sitll thats a boon that can be stolen or stripped off you with ease.

I question which line should really have the supportive roles to be honest i always though that was suppose to be blood magic but blood magic ends up being the sustain line while death is just "meh" possibly overall worse than it was on average.They did fix the death nova bug finally although they never listed it. It actually lands a strike now where as before the strike damage was never applied.

It might be nice if soul comp was changed to maybe when stacks fall off they are consumed for life force or something idk just something more active that happens in combat rather than at the end of combat

I'm of the opinion that death and blood can both be support specs. That's not a controversial statement imo. One heals and the other can condi and boon support.

A solid boon support necro build would be awesome. I usually opt for more healing ideas when it comes to things like death magic but now that you say it...... if death magic provided legit boon support i could get 100% behind that in pve lol.

Though for boon support i think we will need more than just might, and protection :bleep_bloop:

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:A good read

Unholy Sanctuary could have been re worked and you are right that it is the biggest shame trait in the whole list.

The activate shroud part of it is not really the focus i zero in onI would have liked to see it so that it always heals you over time in combat with the heal effect scaling up based on Death's Carapace stacks perhaps with increased healing potential when shroud is active.

While Corrupter's Fervor will likely be the biggest benefit to hybrid or condi buildsUnholy Sanctuary really could have been the big player for power users only who wanted a bit more defense or raw sustain. Then you could run that with Deathly strength to further help compensate the losses you take from swapping death magic for say blood, or soul reaping.

I also agreeMinion traits could have just been wrapped up into 1 trait freeing up some spaceSoul comp still being useless almost everywhere as a on death only style trait.And lack of actual defensive options like stability at high stacks of Carapace could have made this much more worth wild.

I personally dont see myself using this as some one who favors power builds because the gain from this line does not cover the loss of what ever you give up for it. In short its as you said I see this too punishing to take in almost every situation.

I will no doubt test it next week myself but i dont have high hopes for this.

I'd Say corrupter's Fervor is the best trait for power too. Power builds on the necromancer use a lot of conditions. just because they don't favor damaging conditions doesn't mean they don't use them. Reaper is all about vuln and chill and you also have fear, weakness, blind, crippling to name a few. This isn't hard to pull off even fore a power build. Easily, this is the best option for you no matter what build you use baring a minion build.

Right i think it depends on what game mode you look at though. Power reaper in pve (if your setup is closer to the end game meta) will not have as many conditions and your condition application will be a bit more bursty in a common rotation mainly coming from the gs auto, death spiral, soul spiral, and reaper 5.With scourge in a wvw or any game mode really example trading of soul reaping for death magic could be a bit closer to being even however in the case of reaper which heavily benefits from soul reaping and spite I see it as a bit more iffy. Will the utility and damage bonuses = out to the increased sustain gained from the line. I'm thinking it probably wont.

In pvp reaper might get a bit more use out of it as in pvp you do things that you generally would not do in a pve rotation. Generally you dont axe auto in pve very much but in pvp you most certainly would do it alot more making vuln application much more applicable, You also wouldn't run the axe/focus trait in pvp you would run bitter chill for even more vuln. So i can understand where you are coming from but not in every game mode does this example make sense.

Overall you are still correct it is the most bang for your buck in trait options but it wont nearly be as effective depending on the game mode.

Vuln, chill, blind and cripple are extremely common for reaper. As well as poison from death spiral. I think its far more common than you think. Maybe if you're using minions that die. it could be an argument. But there is absolutely no reason for Unholy Sanctuary.

In its current form no.IF it was actually updated or changed then yes it could provide generous sustain in spvp more so than corruptors fervor for core and reaper builds through hp replenishment.Thats a really phat "IF" though. I would opt for a few hundred hp per second over increased toughness but in this current reality the trait is still weaker than regeneration.

While the conditions you called out are common it still depends on the content and game mode you are playing. As not every set up for optimal reaper uses over killing amounts of those conditions. I think those conditions are more applicable to spvp and wvw more so than pve as reaper needs not worrying about applying vuln for pve group content for example its better off opting for more damage. You also dont really need to worry about applying chill yourself in pve group content unless you see that the chill up time is low and falling off consistently which lowers your damage.

I definitely still agree with you CF is the most bang for you buck its still the best option but i really do think that if they put a bit of love into Unholy it could have potentially been a better option for pure power sustain.

Those are the passive conditions that the reaper brings. Its just a part of their kit at all times unless greatsword isn't included. Which is possible. Unholy Sanctuary honestly shouldn't exist. We should have a more supportive option. And Honestly, after testing it a bit, to get a feel. The entire trait line feels clunky. The extra defense is nice but the sacrifice you need to make to get it is just too much. And I was right about my prediction of an Average of 15 stacks. You can push to 30 super easily, but maintaining is closer to 15. Which I personally think Corruptor's Fervor should also pulse a single stack of Stability along with the protection. At the moment it feels underwhelming as a grandmaster.

Death as a whole is still quite underwhelming. Which is a shame. You sacrifice too much by taking it. The passive damage bonus's from spite are just much better and the recovery from blood is just better imo. Which is a bit strange to say since normally I feel recovery is worse than defense, but from the necromancer's design they'd almost rather have the recovery since they don't have invuln or blocks. But that's an argument i could be convinced of otherwise.

Yeah thats how i felt it overall about it the sustain gained is minimal at least in spvp and having more offensive pressure provides a better defense than death does with its toughness increases.Toughness is nice but overall toughness never felt like it done a whole lot for me so having a potential extra 600 for a short time is not doing much.Do note though when combined with blood magic and vampuric wells your protection up time can go rather high but sitll thats a boon that can be stolen or stripped off you with ease.

I question which line should really have the supportive roles to be honest i always though that was suppose to be blood magic but blood magic ends up being the sustain line while death is just "meh" possibly overall worse than it was on average.They did fix the death nova bug finally although they never listed it. It actually lands a strike now where as before the strike damage was never applied.

It might be nice if soul comp was changed to maybe when stacks fall off they are consumed for life force or something idk just something more active that happens in combat rather than at the end of combat

I'm of the opinion that death and blood can both be support specs. That's not a controversial statement imo. One heals and the other can condi and boon support.

A solid boon support necro build would be awesome. I usually opt for more healing ideas when it comes to things like death magic but now that you say it...... if death magic provided legit boon support i could get 100% behind that in pve lol.

Though for boon support i think we will need more than just might, and protection :bleep_bloop:

100% Agreed. I've mentioned before protection and resistance. But I've also mentioned something different like giving necromancer the means to give allies the ability to transfer condition. The sky really is the limit.

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@HyperLooser.2698 said:my reaper rune- shout- chill- bleed- greatsword reaper insta gets max 30 stacks and maintains them at 30 through the entire fight. Using Spite line so the vulnerability stacks when chill quickly builds up stacks.

Having perma prot and 300 power+600 tougness is amazing+ condi damage reduction.

Ahhh you're making me wish so bad that I had time to play! :'(

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Guys I was trying to build a poison spec relying on the trait where minions die and creat poison nova and then new ones would rise and when killed another poison nova( i think this is how it is suposed to work) but i tried that in wvw again large numbers and i see no poison being applied and those are suposed to be unblocable. Anyone?

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@Mikhael.2391 said:Guys I was trying to build a poison spec relying on the trait where minions die and creat poison nova and then new ones would rise and when killed another poison nova( i think this is how it is suposed to work) but i tried that in wvw again large numbers and i see no poison being applied and those are suposed to be unblocable. Anyone?

First you got an ICD on the minion spawn. Second, in WvW, the probabilities are higher that the criter will die to an aoe before even coming close to your foes. The lesser poison cloud itself don't last long so...

Your theory craft itself was good, in practice it doesn't have a high probability to work.

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@HyperLooser.2698 said:my reaper rune- shout- chill- bleed- greatsword reaper insta gets max 30 stacks and maintains them at 30 through the entire fight. Using Spite line so the vulnerability stacks when chill quickly builds up stacks.

Having perma prot and 300 power+600 tougness is amazing+ condi damage reduction.

Careful, if you are having too much fun it will get nerfed. Pretty sure that is how it works. :)

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A poison-reaper would require viper for full effectiveness, yes? Here you'd not want to take Flesh of the Master to ensure they will die faster, id hazard. But id think that you quickly become hamstrung by skill cds. And lesser poison cloud got renamed to poison nova. But the jagged horror summoning from Death Nova should keep you with generated jagged horrors.

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@HyperLooser.2698 said:my reaper rune- shout- chill- bleed- greatsword reaper insta gets max 30 stacks and maintains them at 30 through the entire fight. Using Spite line so the vulnerability stacks when chill quickly builds up stacks.

Having perma prot and 300 power+600 tougness is amazing+ condi damage reduction.

care to share the build for me to have a look and gear?

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@Mikhael.2391 said:

@"HyperLooser.2698" said:my reaper rune- shout- chill- bleed- greatsword reaper insta gets max 30 stacks and maintains them at 30 through the entire fight. Using Spite line so the vulnerability stacks when chill quickly builds up stacks.

Having perma prot and 300 power+600 tougness is amazing+ condi damage reduction.

care to share the build for me to have a look and gear?

Probably something like that:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYtjlJwWYNMHWJO2PqtUA-zZx8E85A condi build

or:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAEd3lJwWYNMHWJO2PqtaA-z5IeC+cA power build

Like he said, bitter chill stack vuln very quickly. Using NCSY with rune of the reaper mean that you've already put 10 conditions onto your foe, If there is 3 foes in range your already maxed up in stacks.

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Have you guys tried Death Magic with core condi Necro? Seems pretty legit for soloQ...

I did Carrion and Scavanger Runes (tentative. Can't decide between Scavanger Runes with sigils for cover condis like Exposure and Doom, or Aristocracy Runes with Battle and Courage sigils.... The Might + Carrion + Deadly Strength can be pretty crazy).... Anyway... you're tanky as hell with vitality, toughness, condi clears, protection, and a buttload of power on top of the condi damage. I could go toe to toe with condi mirages, condi thieves and weavers, which was a huge gamble before this. I need to give it a bit more of a proper test, but I got a bad feeling Death Magic will get a nerf :( either Carapace itself, or Corrupter's Fervor. Bad, bad feeling ?

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@MethaneGas.8357 said:Have you guys tried Death Magic with core condi Necro? Seems pretty legit for soloQ...

I did Carrion and Scavanger Runes (tentative. Can't decide between Scavanger Runes with sigils for cover condis like Exposure and Doom, or Aristocracy Runes with Battle and Courage sigils.... The Might + Carrion + Deadly Strength can be pretty crazy).... Anyway... you're tanky as hell with vitality, toughness, condi clears, protection, and a buttload of power on top of the condi damage. I could go toe to toe with condi mirages, condi thieves and weavers, which was a huge gamble before this. I need to give it a bit more of a proper test, but I got a bad feeling Death Magic will get a nerf :( either Carapace itself, or Corrupter's Fervor. Bad, bad feeling ?

Was this for spvp or WVW?

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@Axl.8924 said:

@MethaneGas.8357 said:Have you guys tried Death Magic with core condi Necro? Seems pretty legit for soloQ...

I did Carrion and Scavanger Runes (tentative. Can't decide between Scavanger Runes with sigils for cover condis like Exposure and Doom, or Aristocracy Runes with Battle and Courage sigils.... The Might + Carrion + Deadly Strength can be pretty crazy).... Anyway... you're tanky as hell with vitality, toughness, condi clears, protection, and a buttload of power on top of the condi damage. I could go toe to toe with condi mirages, condi thieves and weavers, which was a huge gamble before this. I need to give it a bit more of a proper test, but I got a bad feeling Death Magic will get a nerf :( either Carapace itself, or Corrupter's Fervor. Bad, bad feeling ?

Was this for spvp or WVW?

It was sPvP. Have not tried how it is in WvW so no ideas there.

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