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@Astralporing.1957 said:Still, that doesn't change the main point of my post you quoted - that he was not speaking for everyone.

Cherry picking parts of posts isn't exactly nice. You mean there is a person that runs Raids that will be even remotely happy with not having any more Raids to run? Then that person needs some medical attention because they are clearing doing something they do not want to do.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:Still, that doesn't change the main point of my post you quoted - that he was
not
speaking for everyone.

Cherry picking parts of posts isn't exactly nice. You mean there is a person that runs Raids that will be even remotely happy with not having any more Raids to run?That's not the argument, though. Remember, we were talking about introducting easy mode. I for one would quite like if raids i were running were easier and not be such a stressful event every time i need to pug them, for example. Some of my friends would as well.

So, again. No, you're not talking about everyone. Not even all raiders. Remember, not every raider really like this difficulty level, and not every raider is there for challenge.But then, you could never understand that part.

But hey, if you think having your content reduced anyway without it having any, even the slightest, chance of helping it in the longer run will make you happy...

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:Still, that doesn't change the main point of my post you quoted - that he was
not
speaking for everyone.

Cherry picking parts of posts isn't exactly nice. You mean there is a person that runs Raids that will be even remotely happy with not having any more Raids to run?That's not the argument, though. Remember, we were talking about introducting easy mode. I for one would quite like if raids i were running were easier and not be such a stressful event every time i need to pug them, for example. Some of my friends would as well.

So, again. No, you're not talking about everyone. Not even all raiders. Remember, not every raider really like this difficulty level, and not every raider is there for challenge.But then, you could never understand that part.

Yes but implementing said easy mode make it take longer to release other instanced content like fractals and raids. ( first the time to make said easy mode for whats already here, then the time to implement separate tiers afterwards.)

The ones playing those modes will not be happy with even longer wait time on that content Im sure even you and your friends agree on that right?

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@Astralporing.1957 said:After they reformed the teams, there isn't even a raid/fractal team anymore - only 3 LS teams and one QoL/general content team.

Is that confirmed? My conception was that they installed a 4th team for LS content but not the disbandment of the fractal & raid team. If that's the case I believe things are even worse than expected. Not that I had faith for raids & fractals before anyways - turned away from them due to boredom and way too long release cycles. But that means more interesting & innovative content will be postponed or completely neglected again like in the aera before HoT.In the end one week LS content remains and that wouldn't lead to keep people actively playing for long. Milking the bleeding cow to death.

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Just throwing this out there that they haven’t been specific on what all of the teams are. Unless of course someone has another source.

We are taking the opportunity now to reorganize ourselves into four fully staffed content teams with additional teams dedicated to supporting the core game like Skills and Balance, Rewards, WvW, and sPvP.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/

Do each of those four teams have different focuses?

MZ: Yes. At the moment, the three teams we’ve talked about are our prologue, Episode One, and Episode Two. There’s a fourth team working on something we haven’t talked about.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring

Have they stated what that 4th team does? That’s also not to say there isn’t a smaller team that works on instanced content like fractals and raids such as what they have for Skills and Balance, Rewards, WvW, and sPvP.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:I for one would quite like if raids i were running were easier and not be such a stressful event every time i need to pug them, for example.

At the expense of not having Raids anymore?If nothing changes, at some point you will get exactly that anyway. It's exactly by keeping to the old fears, and old demands (that might have been reasonable when Raids were the New Best Thing for devs, but aren't exactly relevant when they are on the edge of being abandoned, like many other things) that you are more likely to end up with no raids whatoever. You need to refresh the whole idea somehow, or they'll be gone soon.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:You need to refresh the whole idea somehow, or they'll be gone soon.

Like by adding Strike Missions?That remains to be seen. We'll see how they will end up later. This one instance has some problems though. Notice also, that if
Strikes
will become the new "solution", it might kill off raids way more surely than easy mode would.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:You need to refresh the whole idea somehow, or they'll be gone soon.

Like by adding Strike Missions?That remains to be seen. We'll see how they will end up later. This one instance has some problems though. Notice also, that if
Strikes
will become the new "solution", it might kill off raids way more surely than easy mode would.

So to you too, honest question: how often have you played/completed the new strike mission?

I have 4 times by now, that's it. I don't know of a lot of people who have completed the strike more often.The reasons for that are multiple:

  • the rewards are non existent
  • there is no challenge to rush it given how 3 decent raid players can already get 3 chests without breaking a sweat

It's ceratinly a lot better implemented into the current lore/story, so the lore argument makes no sense (for all those people who argue they would love to play raids for the lore) which quite frankly is bs.

How would easy mode raids be any different, if rewards are scalled down? If rewards are not scalled down, what purpose do normal raids then serve?

If this is a pure reward issue because some players want pve access to legendary armor, then I'd rather prefer a new set be added to fractals or open world.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:You need to refresh the whole idea somehow, or they'll be gone soon.

Like by adding Strike Missions?That remains to be seen. We'll see how they will end up later. This one instance has some problems though. Notice also, that if
Strikes
will become the new "solution", it might kill off raids way more surely than easy mode would.

So to you too, honest question: how often have you played/completed the new strike mission?

I have 4 times by now, that's it. I don't know of a lot of people who have completed the strike more often.The reasons for that are multiple:
  • the rewards are non existent
  • there is no challenge to rush it given how 3 decent raid players can already get 3 chests without breaking a sweat

It's ceratinly a lot better implemented into the current lore/story, so the lore argument makes no sense (for all those people who argue they would love to play raids for the lore) which quite frankly is bs.

How would easy mode raids be any different, if rewards are scalled down? If rewards are not scalled down, what purpose do normal raids then serve?

If this is a pure reward issue because some players want pve access to legendary armor, then I'd rather prefer a new set be added to fractals or open world.

I do it daily. Its easy enough to get a group and it doesnt take long. I wont be surprised if they dont do raids anymore, or if they do its even longer of a cycle to develop than they are now.

I cant even find a group these days as all the groups i was a part of left to go play other games. The raids werent interesting enough to hold them here, and they didnt release them fast enough. I cant even get my really good raid friend to come -online- and play GW2 anymore to help me get my legendary armor, which i still dont have cause nobody wants run certain bosses for training groups.

If they added a set of legendary armor to open world/fractals id be okay with that too but i would hope it would be just as cool as the one you can get from raids, otherwise the same problem exists. The raid community isnt growing, its shrinking, eventually it will be dead content unless it gets opened up to the rest of the community.

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If they added a set of legendary armor to open world/fractals id be okay with that too but i would hope it would be just as cool as the one you can get from raids, otherwise the same problem exists. The raid community isnt growing, its shrinking, eventually it will be dead content unless it gets opened up to the rest of the community.

Raid content is open for everyone.

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@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

If they added a set of legendary armor to open world/fractals id be okay with that too but i would hope it would be just as cool as the one you can get from raids, otherwise the same problem exists. The raid community isnt growing, its shrinking, eventually it will be dead content unless it gets opened up to the rest of the community.

Raid content is open for everyone.Sure it is.

The doors may be open, but most players soon learn that they aren't welcome.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

If they added a set of legendary armor to open world/fractals id be okay with that too but i would hope it would be just as cool as the one you can get from raids, otherwise the same problem exists. The raid community isnt growing, its shrinking, eventually it will be dead content unless it gets opened up to the rest of the community.

Raid content is open for everyone.Sure it is.

The doors may be open, but most players soon learn that they
aren't
welcome.

That's simply not true. New players are very welcome. Those who simply want to get carried through by experienced groups might not be as welcome though.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

If they added a set of legendary armor to open world/fractals id be okay with that too but i would hope it would be just as cool as the one you can get from raids, otherwise the same problem exists. The raid community isnt growing, its shrinking, eventually it will be dead content unless it gets opened up to the rest of the community.

Raid content is open for everyone.Sure it is.

The doors may be open, but most players soon learn that they
aren't
welcome.

Thats not true tho. There ia alot of no LI squads or training squads in the LFG, also every player can just post their own squad.

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@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

If they added a set of legendary armor to open world/fractals id be okay with that too but i would hope it would be just as cool as the one you can get from raids, otherwise the same problem exists. The raid community isnt growing, its shrinking, eventually it will be dead content unless it gets opened up to the rest of the community.

Raid content is open for everyone.Sure it is.

The doors may be open, but most players soon learn that they
aren't
welcome.

Thats not true tho. There ia alot of no LI squads or training squads in the LFG, also every player can just post their own squad.

Yes but what people want is join a squad go in beat raid wing in 35-45mins easy as pie the go do something else.

If its not that it aint easy, then closed off to lets say 90% of the community.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

If they added a set of legendary armor to open world/fractals id be okay with that too but i would hope it would be just as cool as the one you can get from raids, otherwise the same problem exists. The raid community isnt growing, its shrinking, eventually it will be dead content unless it gets opened up to the rest of the community.

Raid content is open for everyone.Sure it is.

The doors may be open, but most players soon learn that they
aren't
welcome.

That's simply not true. New players are very welcome.Only if they conform. Raids are a clear ilustration of the "my way or the highway" approach. I don't blame players for it - considering the content it's quite understandable - but let's not try to pretend it's not like that.
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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

If they added a set of legendary armor to open world/fractals id be okay with that too but i would hope it would be just as cool as the one you can get from raids, otherwise the same problem exists. The raid community isnt growing, its shrinking, eventually it will be dead content unless it gets opened up to the rest of the community.

Raid content is open for everyone.Sure it is.

The doors may be open, but most players soon learn that they
aren't
welcome.

That's simply not true. New players are very welcome.Only if they conform. Raids are a clear ilustration of the "my way or the highway" approach. I don't blame players for it - considering the content it's quite understandable - but let's not try to pretend it's not like that.

Again, not true, and you should not cut quotes short only to better serve your comment (especially when there is no space saved).

Players do not have to conform. They can play and make groups how ever they want and all it takes is finding 9 other likeminded players.

Now if the vast majority of other players have certain expectations (and experienced players often do because certain setups, abilities, approaches lead more often to success), then that is an issue with the community and player base (or the individual who does not want to fit in).

As has been discussed often by now, raids have a very low skill ceiling required for actual completion based on objective facts like:

  • clear time and enrage timers
  • damage required versus damage possible
  • possible class compositions which can lead to success
  • necessity of gear
  • leeway for mistakes

all of which are very generous in favor of clearing the content.

I have no sympathy for players who are unwilling to be team players with their squad, but at the same time demand others accomodate THEIR desires. We have way to many special snowflakes who think they are the center of the universe. That's not how teamwork, group content, team sports or anything related works, neither in this game, nor in real life. Team activities are always TEAM efforts, and every one has to comply.

EDIT: and just to be clear, I have no issue with people unwilling to be team players who do their own thing. Just don't expect others to have to suit you.

As far as conforming, players are absolutely free to do as they please as long as they can get enough others to come along. Success might not be guaranteed though, this is supposed to be semi challenging group content after all. Every player is absolutely free to give raids a shot and figure everything out on their own too and if they can find 9 others to walk down that path, even better. For everyone else, there is a great amount of resources available which they can use to get a headstart.

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@Linken.6345 said:

If they added a set of legendary armor to open world/fractals id be okay with that too but i would hope it would be just as cool as the one you can get from raids, otherwise the same problem exists. The raid community isnt growing, its shrinking, eventually it will be dead content unless it gets opened up to the rest of the community.

Raid content is open for everyone.Sure it is.

The doors may be open, but most players soon learn that they
aren't
welcome.

Thats not true tho. There ia alot of no LI squads or training squads in the LFG, also every player can just post their own squad.

Yes but what people want is join a squad go in beat raid wing in 35-45mins easy as pie the go do something else.

If its not that it aint easy, then closed off to lets say 90% of the community.

If you say so?‍♀️

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

If they added a set of legendary armor to open world/fractals id be okay with that too but i would hope it would be just as cool as the one you can get from raids, otherwise the same problem exists. The raid community isnt growing, its shrinking, eventually it will be dead content unless it gets opened up to the rest of the community.

Raid content is open for everyone.Sure it is.

The doors may be open, but most players soon learn that they
aren't
welcome.

As someone who's a hardcore raider in WoW and FF14 and has dabbled in GW2's raids before, I have to say there's a lot more than players not being welcome. Fact of the matter is, all the content in the game is easy. You don't need a cohesive team to run fractals and most open world events are swamped with players so you can do whatever with your build and gear 'cause it won't matter. This leads to a lot of players simply being...bad. Maybe they're not bad players in and of itself but they use items that don't complement their build and vice-versa.

I joined a lot of raids through discord in GW2 and it was very common to see bosses attacking random players who had a lot of toughness gear instead of going for the mesmer, or players doing less DPS than healers cause they simply didn't know what to do with their classes.

Fact of the matter is, as easy as raids in GW2 are, you do need some people to know what they are doing. So to avoid having to perform for the dead weight condi herald who just joined your raid group, you bar him from joining. Is it fair? Sure it is. And this is another thing most players who don't feel "welcome" fail to realize: they have the ability to create their own groups. But no, experienced players who have the fights down and work their asses off learning their rotations are NOT going to carry deadweight around just because they think they deserve it.

As for the whole easier raids thing, it just shows more of the problem of GW2 having a very poor carrot in the stick since there's no gear progression. Because the rewards from raiding are virtually cosmetic(merchant items)/QoL (legendary gear), it's hard to implement an easier mode without the "normal mode" players feeling shafted. You could make it so easy mode raids drop less gaetling stones/similar currency and no items for legendary collections, but I bet you'd have the LFRaiders coming to complain about that in an instant. A lot of players preach they just want to see the content they feel they're gated from, but once that door is opened to them, we see that's not actually true.

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Old topic and still no solution. What I don't get is that similar popular MMOs all managed to introduce raid difficulties. Why not anet? I used to raid in WoW a decade ago, but time management is different now. I work, I play other games, I have a lot of friends I want to meet them and visiting many concert gigs.

Hence, since it is still content that I want to see, I would appreciate an easy mode with lowered rewards and simpler mechanics. I am able to raid, but not willing. Since you need a lot of wasted time, failing for 3h isn't just productive and I am not willing to waste so much time. I can have a great time with progress in - let's say - a Zelda game. Why waste it on one boss and the 'fault' is not me, but the tank or healer?

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Old topic and still no solution. What I don't get is that similar popular MMOs all managed to introduce raid difficulties. Why not anet? I used to raid in WoW a decade ago, but time management is different now. I work, I play other games, I have a lot of friends I want to meet them and visiting many concert gigs.

Hence, since it is still content that I want to see, I would appreciate an easy mode with lowered rewards and simpler mechanics. I am able to raid, but not willing. Since you need a lot of wasted time, failing for 3h isn't just productive and I am not willing to waste so much time. I can have a great time with progress in - let's say - a Zelda game. Why waste it on one boss and the 'fault' is not me, but the tank or healer?

You’ll have easy “raids” with strikes once they get more out. Why do the existing raids, which were intended to be the most challenging content in the game, need an easy mode to bring it down to the other face roll content in the game?

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@"ProtoGunner.4953" said:Old topic and still no solution. What I don't get is that similar popular MMOs all managed to introduce raid difficulties. Why not anet? I used to raid in WoW a decade ago, but time management is different now. I work, I play other games, I have a lot of friends I want to meet them and visiting many concert gigs.

Hence, since it is still content that I want to see, I would appreciate an easy mode with lowered rewards and simpler mechanics. I am able to raid, but not willing. Since you need a lot of wasted time, failing for 3h isn't just productive and I am not willing to waste so much time. I can have a great time with progress in - let's say - a Zelda game. Why waste it on one boss and the 'fault' is not me, but the tank or healer?

Because raids in other games are part of the core gear progression, so it's much easier to create rewards to go with easier difficulties (e.g. "easy" drops iLvl 75 gear, "normaldrops iLvl 85 gear and "hard" drops iLvl 95 gear). You don't have to create different sets of rewards, just lower their stats. In GW2 we don't have a gear grind. All the rewards from raids are either currency used to buy what's essentially transmog gear or items for legendary armor/ring collections.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

You’ll have easy “raids” with strikes once they get more out. Why do the existing raids, which were intended to be the most challenging content in the game, need an easy mode to bring it down to the other face roll content in the game?

Why not, so long as the rewards are toned down as well?

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@Bobzitto.8571 said:

@"ProtoGunner.4953" said:Old topic and still no solution. What I don't get is that similar popular MMOs all managed to introduce raid difficulties. Why not anet? I used to raid in WoW a decade ago, but time management is different now. I work, I play other games, I have a lot of friends I want to meet them and visiting many concert gigs.

Hence, since it is still content that I want to see, I would appreciate an easy mode with lowered rewards and simpler mechanics. I
am
able to raid, but not willing. Since you need a lot of wasted time, failing for 3h isn't just productive and I am not willing to waste so much time. I can have a great time with progress in - let's say - a Zelda game. Why waste it on one boss and the 'fault' is not me, but the tank or healer?

Because raids in other games are part of the core gear progression, so it's much easier to create rewards to go with easier difficulties (e.g. "easy" drops iLvl 75 gear, "normaldrops iLvl 85 gear and "hard" drops iLvl 95 gear). You don't have to create different sets of rewards, just lower their stats. In GW2 we don't have a gear grind. All the rewards from raids are either currency used to buy what's essentially transmog gear or items for legendary armor/ring collections.

You’ll have easy “raids” with strikes once they get more out. Why do the existing raids, which were intended to be the most challenging content in the game, need an easy mode to bring it down to the other face roll content in the game?

Why not, so long as the rewards are toned down as well?

I have no issue so long long as the following are met:

  • Doesn’t pull any resources which ends up delaying content
  • No achievement/collection progression
  • No LI/LD rewards
  • No unique boss drops (e.g. infusions, miniatures, skins) although I’d make an exception for ascended armor/weapons so those starting out in exotics can upgrade to ascended through raids.

Essentially the mode is there for them to experience the content and “train”.

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