EU Ranked PvP on Core Mantra Mesmer! - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

EU Ranked PvP on Core Mantra Mesmer!

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Comments

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

    meh, he was low hp so superiority proced anyways, and anguish extra 9% damage wouldnt matter much becouse you range 1clone shattered, 5 vulnerability would matter more but most likely he would have still survived. what annoys me with this build is the unreliability of the damage, its all about the crit, and you have 49% chance only. you need to get that fury to jump to 69%, and thats simply hit or miss.
    tldr he would take extra ¬¬9% dmg or around that number and survive with 1-2k hp instead of 3k

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

    meh, he was low hp so superiority proced anyways, and anguish extra 9% damage wouldnt matter much becouse you range 1clone shattered, 5 vulnerability would matter more but most likely he would have still survived. what annoys me with this build is the unreliability of the damage, its all about the crit, and you have 49% chance only. you need to get that fury to jump to 69%, and thats simply hit or miss.
    tldr he would take extra ¬¬9% dmg or around that number and survive with 1-2k hp instead of 3k

    You need to rewatch the video again.

    Ajax was at 80% health at the start of the burst. That's 30% health where he wasn't getting hit by 10% bonus critical damage.

    Dueling gives you perma fury in most fights and Illusions can bump your Mind Wrack crit chance up by 25% to make up for the fury loss.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

    meh, he was low hp so superiority proced anyways, and anguish extra 9% damage wouldnt matter much becouse you range 1clone shattered, 5 vulnerability would matter more but most likely he would have still survived. what annoys me with this build is the unreliability of the damage, its all about the crit, and you have 49% chance only. you need to get that fury to jump to 69%, and thats simply hit or miss.
    tldr he would take extra ¬¬9% dmg or around that number and survive with 1-2k hp instead of 3k

    You need to rewatch the video again.

    Ajax was at 80% health at the start of the burst. That's 30% health where he wasn't getting hit by 10% bonus critical damage.

    Dueling gives you perma fury in most fights and Illusions can bump your Mind Wrack crit chance up by 25% to make up for the fury loss.

    rewatched in slowmo, you did gs2->f1->gs3->daze->powerspike, so if you did the combo properly he might have actually died. would have been really close but its hard to tell. but i guess way above average crits even that out somewhat.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

    meh, he was low hp so superiority proced anyways, and anguish extra 9% damage wouldnt matter much becouse you range 1clone shattered, 5 vulnerability would matter more but most likely he would have still survived. what annoys me with this build is the unreliability of the damage, its all about the crit, and you have 49% chance only. you need to get that fury to jump to 69%, and thats simply hit or miss.
    tldr he would take extra ¬¬9% dmg or around that number and survive with 1-2k hp instead of 3k

    You need to rewatch the video again.

    Ajax was at 80% health at the start of the burst. That's 30% health where he wasn't getting hit by 10% bonus critical damage.

    Dueling gives you perma fury in most fights and Illusions can bump your Mind Wrack crit chance up by 25% to make up for the fury loss.

    rewatched in slowmo, you did gs2->f1->gs3->daze->powerspike, so if you did the combo properly he might have actually died. would have been really close but its hard to tell. but i guess way above average crits even that out somewhat.

    I meant rewatch it to see his health percentage. Superiority Complex wouldn't have procced for at least 30% of his health.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

    meh, he was low hp so superiority proced anyways, and anguish extra 9% damage wouldnt matter much becouse you range 1clone shattered, 5 vulnerability would matter more but most likely he would have still survived. what annoys me with this build is the unreliability of the damage, its all about the crit, and you have 49% chance only. you need to get that fury to jump to 69%, and thats simply hit or miss.
    tldr he would take extra ¬¬9% dmg or around that number and survive with 1-2k hp instead of 3k

    You need to rewatch the video again.

    Ajax was at 80% health at the start of the burst. That's 30% health where he wasn't getting hit by 10% bonus critical damage.

    Dueling gives you perma fury in most fights and Illusions can bump your Mind Wrack crit chance up by 25% to make up for the fury loss.

    rewatched in slowmo, you did gs2->f1->gs3->daze->powerspike, so if you did the combo properly he might have actually died. would have been really close but its hard to tell. but i guess way above average crits even that out somewhat.

    I meant rewatch it to see his health percentage. Superiority Complex wouldn't have procced for at least 30% of his health.

    true, but also 10% off 30% in 3%, and 3% of his hp is what, 600?

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

    meh, he was low hp so superiority proced anyways, and anguish extra 9% damage wouldnt matter much becouse you range 1clone shattered, 5 vulnerability would matter more but most likely he would have still survived. what annoys me with this build is the unreliability of the damage, its all about the crit, and you have 49% chance only. you need to get that fury to jump to 69%, and thats simply hit or miss.
    tldr he would take extra ¬¬9% dmg or around that number and survive with 1-2k hp instead of 3k

    You need to rewatch the video again.

    Ajax was at 80% health at the start of the burst. That's 30% health where he wasn't getting hit by 10% bonus critical damage.

    Dueling gives you perma fury in most fights and Illusions can bump your Mind Wrack crit chance up by 25% to make up for the fury loss.

    rewatched in slowmo, you did gs2->f1->gs3->daze->powerspike, so if you did the combo properly he might have actually died. would have been really close but its hard to tell. but i guess way above average crits even that out somewhat.

    I meant rewatch it to see his health percentage. Superiority Complex wouldn't have procced for at least 30% of his health.

    true, but also 10% off 30% in 3%, and 3% of his hp is what, 600?

    Yikes lol

    Sorry I'm not going to explain why you're wrong here. You need to read how Superiority Complex works before we continue this discussion.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

    meh, he was low hp so superiority proced anyways, and anguish extra 9% damage wouldnt matter much becouse you range 1clone shattered, 5 vulnerability would matter more but most likely he would have still survived. what annoys me with this build is the unreliability of the damage, its all about the crit, and you have 49% chance only. you need to get that fury to jump to 69%, and thats simply hit or miss.
    tldr he would take extra ¬¬9% dmg or around that number and survive with 1-2k hp instead of 3k

    You need to rewatch the video again.

    Ajax was at 80% health at the start of the burst. That's 30% health where he wasn't getting hit by 10% bonus critical damage.

    Dueling gives you perma fury in most fights and Illusions can bump your Mind Wrack crit chance up by 25% to make up for the fury loss.

    rewatched in slowmo, you did gs2->f1->gs3->daze->powerspike, so if you did the combo properly he might have actually died. would have been really close but its hard to tell. but i guess way above average crits even that out somewhat.

    I meant rewatch it to see his health percentage. Superiority Complex wouldn't have procced for at least 30% of his health.

    true, but also 10% off 30% in 3%, and 3% of his hp is what, 600?

    Yikes lol

    Sorry I'm not going to explain why you're wrong here. You need to read how Superiority Complex works before we continue this discussion.

    Maybe you should though.

    80% to 50% would have 10% damage added (the trait works multiplicative). 10% of those 30% of his health is 3% of the total damage. So instead of 50% health taken it would've been 53% (at these health percentages, if it was all crits, didn't check it).

    (This is if we expect the damage to be calculated linearly and not per hit, which is probably not true.)

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2019

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

    meh, he was low hp so superiority proced anyways, and anguish extra 9% damage wouldnt matter much becouse you range 1clone shattered, 5 vulnerability would matter more but most likely he would have still survived. what annoys me with this build is the unreliability of the damage, its all about the crit, and you have 49% chance only. you need to get that fury to jump to 69%, and thats simply hit or miss.
    tldr he would take extra ¬¬9% dmg or around that number and survive with 1-2k hp instead of 3k

    You need to rewatch the video again.

    Ajax was at 80% health at the start of the burst. That's 30% health where he wasn't getting hit by 10% bonus critical damage.

    Dueling gives you perma fury in most fights and Illusions can bump your Mind Wrack crit chance up by 25% to make up for the fury loss.

    rewatched in slowmo, you did gs2->f1->gs3->daze->powerspike, so if you did the combo properly he might have actually died. would have been really close but its hard to tell. but i guess way above average crits even that out somewhat.

    I meant rewatch it to see his health percentage. Superiority Complex wouldn't have procced for at least 30% of his health.

    true, but also 10% off 30% in 3%, and 3% of his hp is what, 600?

    Yikes lol

    Sorry I'm not going to explain why you're wrong here. You need to read how Superiority Complex works before we continue this discussion.

    Maybe you should though.

    80% to 50% would have 10% damage added (the trait works multiplicative). 10% of those 30% of his health is 3% of the total damage. So instead of 50% health taken it would've been 53% (at these health percentages, if it was all crits, didn't check it).

    (This is if we expect the damage to be calculated linearly and not per hit, which is probably not true.)

    ???? I really hope you guys are kidding

    Superiority Complex gives 15% critical damage and another 10% critical damage when I'm hitting enemies that are disabled/under 50% health. In other words, if my Mind Wrack hits for 6,000 damage on a crit, SC would bump that up to 6,600. Mirror Blade hits several times so the bounces would each do 200+ additional damage each on crits. Etc. etc.

    Not using Power Lock before hitting the rest of my combo actually reduces my damage by a significant amount.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2019

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

    meh, he was low hp so superiority proced anyways, and anguish extra 9% damage wouldnt matter much becouse you range 1clone shattered, 5 vulnerability would matter more but most likely he would have still survived. what annoys me with this build is the unreliability of the damage, its all about the crit, and you have 49% chance only. you need to get that fury to jump to 69%, and thats simply hit or miss.
    tldr he would take extra ¬¬9% dmg or around that number and survive with 1-2k hp instead of 3k

    You need to rewatch the video again.

    Ajax was at 80% health at the start of the burst. That's 30% health where he wasn't getting hit by 10% bonus critical damage.

    Dueling gives you perma fury in most fights and Illusions can bump your Mind Wrack crit chance up by 25% to make up for the fury loss.

    rewatched in slowmo, you did gs2->f1->gs3->daze->powerspike, so if you did the combo properly he might have actually died. would have been really close but its hard to tell. but i guess way above average crits even that out somewhat.

    I meant rewatch it to see his health percentage. Superiority Complex wouldn't have procced for at least 30% of his health.

    true, but also 10% off 30% in 3%, and 3% of his hp is what, 600?

    Yikes lol

    Sorry I'm not going to explain why you're wrong here. You need to read how Superiority Complex works before we continue this discussion.

    Maybe you should though.

    80% to 50% would have 10% damage added (the trait works multiplicative). 10% of those 30% of his health is 3% of the total damage. So instead of 50% health taken it would've been 53% (at these health percentages, if it was all crits, didn't check it).

    (This is if we expect the damage to be calculated linearly and not per hit, which is probably not true.)

    immagine studying enginnering only to be called yikes on a math problem lol
    to mrs yikes superiority complex had nothing to do with the failure of a burst, landing daze -> mind spike makes MUCH more of a difference, due to extra 10 vulnerability.
    thats extra 1,1 x 1,05 = 1,155 =15,5% extra damage. on ALL DAMGE not just 1 hit.

    extra gs2 hits wouldnt and didnt land becouse they bounced off into the sunset and warrior dodged.
    also a tip, after a burst combo use gs1, not gs4. people dodge/invul anyways and gs1 first tick is preety fast so its actually possible to fit extra 300-800 dmg.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

    meh, he was low hp so superiority proced anyways, and anguish extra 9% damage wouldnt matter much becouse you range 1clone shattered, 5 vulnerability would matter more but most likely he would have still survived. what annoys me with this build is the unreliability of the damage, its all about the crit, and you have 49% chance only. you need to get that fury to jump to 69%, and thats simply hit or miss.
    tldr he would take extra ¬¬9% dmg or around that number and survive with 1-2k hp instead of 3k

    You need to rewatch the video again.

    Ajax was at 80% health at the start of the burst. That's 30% health where he wasn't getting hit by 10% bonus critical damage.

    Dueling gives you perma fury in most fights and Illusions can bump your Mind Wrack crit chance up by 25% to make up for the fury loss.

    rewatched in slowmo, you did gs2->f1->gs3->daze->powerspike, so if you did the combo properly he might have actually died. would have been really close but its hard to tell. but i guess way above average crits even that out somewhat.

    I meant rewatch it to see his health percentage. Superiority Complex wouldn't have procced for at least 30% of his health.

    true, but also 10% off 30% in 3%, and 3% of his hp is what, 600?

    Yikes lol

    Sorry I'm not going to explain why you're wrong here. You need to read how Superiority Complex works before we continue this discussion.

    Maybe you should though.

    80% to 50% would have 10% damage added (the trait works multiplicative). 10% of those 30% of his health is 3% of the total damage. So instead of 50% health taken it would've been 53% (at these health percentages, if it was all crits, didn't check it).

    (This is if we expect the damage to be calculated linearly and not per hit, which is probably not true.)

    immagine studying enginnering only to be called yikes on a math problem lol
    to mrs yikes superiority complex had nothing to do with the failure of a burst, landing daze -> mind spike makes MUCH more of a difference, due to extra 10 vulnerability.
    thats extra 1,1 x 1,05 = 1,155 =15,5% extra damage. on ALL DAMGE not just 1 hit.

    extra gs2 hits wouldnt and didnt land becouse they bounced off into the sunset and warrior dodged.

    I'm in aerospace and mechanical engineering so I understand the math perfectly fine (not that it's anywhere near complicated to begin with).

    Your responses don't make sense in context to what I said. Also, you were so incorrect I almost didn't know how to respond. You really think that Superiority Complex would only deal an extra 600 damage and THAT'S what I missed out on??

    I'm not arguing the vuln procs. However, you are incredibly mistaken about Superiority Complex's impact on the burst.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

    meh, he was low hp so superiority proced anyways, and anguish extra 9% damage wouldnt matter much becouse you range 1clone shattered, 5 vulnerability would matter more but most likely he would have still survived. what annoys me with this build is the unreliability of the damage, its all about the crit, and you have 49% chance only. you need to get that fury to jump to 69%, and thats simply hit or miss.
    tldr he would take extra ¬¬9% dmg or around that number and survive with 1-2k hp instead of 3k

    You need to rewatch the video again.

    Ajax was at 80% health at the start of the burst. That's 30% health where he wasn't getting hit by 10% bonus critical damage.

    Dueling gives you perma fury in most fights and Illusions can bump your Mind Wrack crit chance up by 25% to make up for the fury loss.

    rewatched in slowmo, you did gs2->f1->gs3->daze->powerspike, so if you did the combo properly he might have actually died. would have been really close but its hard to tell. but i guess way above average crits even that out somewhat.

    I meant rewatch it to see his health percentage. Superiority Complex wouldn't have procced for at least 30% of his health.

    true, but also 10% off 30% in 3%, and 3% of his hp is what, 600?

    Yikes lol

    Sorry I'm not going to explain why you're wrong here. You need to read how Superiority Complex works before we continue this discussion.

    Maybe you should though.

    80% to 50% would have 10% damage added (the trait works multiplicative). 10% of those 30% of his health is 3% of the total damage. So instead of 50% health taken it would've been 53% (at these health percentages, if it was all crits, didn't check it).

    (This is if we expect the damage to be calculated linearly and not per hit, which is probably not true.)

    immagine studying enginnering only to be called yikes on a math problem lol
    to mrs yikes superiority complex had nothing to do with the failure of a burst, landing daze -> mind spike makes MUCH more of a difference, due to extra 10 vulnerability.
    thats extra 1,1 x 1,05 = 1,155 =15,5% extra damage. on ALL DAMGE not just 1 hit.

    extra gs2 hits wouldnt and didnt land becouse they bounced off into the sunset and warrior dodged.

    I'm in aerospace and mechanical engineering so I understand the math perfectly fine (not that it's anywhere near complicated to begin with).

    Your responses don't make sense in context to what I said. Also, you were so incorrect I almost didn't know how to respond. You really think that Superiority Complex would only deal an extra 600 damage and THAT'S what I missed out on??

    I'm not arguing the vuln procs. However, you are incredibly mistaken about Superiority Complex's impact on the burst.

    alright so first of all superiority automatically procs while under 50% hp.
    sec of all f1 did 3,1k dmg, gs3 did 1,8k dmg. but that was already under 50% hp
    the only crit that was under 50% hp was f1 that landed for 3160.
    meaning superiority wasted 316 dmg........
    keep in mind that he was also attacked by condi thief.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've updated the original post with 6 new games.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If anyone wants to see the perspective of someone fighting on the opposing team here you go:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490468548?t=05h54m30s

    Time is 5h 54m when the match starts just in case the link doesn't work.

    Edit: NSFW it does contain some strong language depending on your disposition.

    6:04:50 thats some manly mirage.
    ps at ¬¬ 5:57 is the only "burst" he managed to land did around 11k dmg.
    so his can stealth and run across the map and 1shot anyone no counterplay doesnt really hold it, now does it ?

    As I've stated several times in the past, it can oneshot anything that doesn't use a toughness amulet. The only meta classes that use demo or paladins are rangers, holos, and warriors. However, it can bring them down to 10-20% of their total health.

    Here, you can see the burst executed from my perspective. I was far away, thus the Mind Wrack from my player didn't hit Ajax. Also, I should've Power Locked before I did the rest of the burst which would've interrupted the Breaching Strike and procced Superiority Complex AND Mental Anguish. However, I did not need to stand next to AJax in this case. Simply Power Locking before the rest of the mantra combo would've killed him.

    Thanks for making me rewatch the video in slow motion. Previously, Power Lock would be the last part of the burst. Going forward, it will be the first thing I use to proc all of those extra damage traits. =D

    meh, he was low hp so superiority proced anyways, and anguish extra 9% damage wouldnt matter much becouse you range 1clone shattered, 5 vulnerability would matter more but most likely he would have still survived. what annoys me with this build is the unreliability of the damage, its all about the crit, and you have 49% chance only. you need to get that fury to jump to 69%, and thats simply hit or miss.
    tldr he would take extra ¬¬9% dmg or around that number and survive with 1-2k hp instead of 3k

    You need to rewatch the video again.

    Ajax was at 80% health at the start of the burst. That's 30% health where he wasn't getting hit by 10% bonus critical damage.

    Dueling gives you perma fury in most fights and Illusions can bump your Mind Wrack crit chance up by 25% to make up for the fury loss.

    rewatched in slowmo, you did gs2->f1->gs3->daze->powerspike, so if you did the combo properly he might have actually died. would have been really close but its hard to tell. but i guess way above average crits even that out somewhat.

    I meant rewatch it to see his health percentage. Superiority Complex wouldn't have procced for at least 30% of his health.

    true, but also 10% off 30% in 3%, and 3% of his hp is what, 600?

    Yikes lol

    Sorry I'm not going to explain why you're wrong here. You need to read how Superiority Complex works before we continue this discussion.

    Maybe you should though.

    80% to 50% would have 10% damage added (the trait works multiplicative). 10% of those 30% of his health is 3% of the total damage. So instead of 50% health taken it would've been 53% (at these health percentages, if it was all crits, didn't check it).

    (This is if we expect the damage to be calculated linearly and not per hit, which is probably not true.)

    immagine studying enginnering only to be called yikes on a math problem lol
    to mrs yikes superiority complex had nothing to do with the failure of a burst, landing daze -> mind spike makes MUCH more of a difference, due to extra 10 vulnerability.
    thats extra 1,1 x 1,05 = 1,155 =15,5% extra damage. on ALL DAMGE not just 1 hit.

    extra gs2 hits wouldnt and didnt land becouse they bounced off into the sunset and warrior dodged.

    I'm in aerospace and mechanical engineering so I understand the math perfectly fine (not that it's anywhere near complicated to begin with).

    Your responses don't make sense in context to what I said. Also, you were so incorrect I almost didn't know how to respond. You really think that Superiority Complex would only deal an extra 600 damage and THAT'S what I missed out on??

    I'm not arguing the vuln procs. However, you are incredibly mistaken about Superiority Complex's impact on the burst.

    alright so first of all superiority automatically procs while under 50% hp.
    sec of all f1 did 3,1k dmg, gs3 did 1,8k dmg. but that was already under 50% hp
    the only crit that was under 50% hp was f1 that landed for 3160.
    meaning superiority wasted 316 dmg........
    keep in mind that he was also attacked by condi thief.

    Ajax's total health pool is 19,212. He was at 80% health before I hit him. This means he was at 15,370 health.
    The 50% threshold where Superiority Complex starts is half of 19,212. So, this means SC triggers at 9,606 and below.
    Subtract these two values and you get 5,764 health.

    I guess it just depends on how hard I crit him for before he drops under the 50% threshold. I see your point. However, I still have one point of contention. If I ended up critting him in a single hit, more than the health difference from 50%, I would miss out on more damage than just the 600.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't know. This is an interesting experiment and obviously a this small sample size of games wouldn't be representative given how lose or win streaks can creep in.

    I just wonder, if mantras are so broken and overpowered, shouldn't a legend or plat 3+ player have no issue in carrying games? Yes, your 1v1 statistic is positive, which it should be on a dueler against Gold3 and P1-2 opponents simply due to better game understanding and execution.

    Yet I wonder if there isn't some other builds out there which would be just as useful and more in a team setting. Granted, that is no proof that mantra's might still not be overpowered (say if 2-3 other builds were even more busted).

    The way your game distribution goes simply seems to me like a player who has gotten used to his build climbing to his natural rank. That doesn't really scream overpowered yet.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Don't know. This is an interesting experiment and obviously a this small sample size of games wouldn't be representative given how lose or win streaks can creep in.

    I just wonder, if mantras are so broken and overpowered, shouldn't a legend or plat 3+ player have no issue in carrying games? Yes, your 1v1 statistic is positive, which it should be on a dueler against Gold3 and P1-2 opponents simply due to better game understanding and execution.

    Yet I wonder if there isn't some other builds out there which would be just as useful and more in a team setting. Granted, that is no proof that mantra's might still not be overpowered (say if 2-3 other builds were even more busted).

    The way your game distribution goes simply seems to me like a player who has gotten used to his build climbing to his natural rank. That doesn't really scream overpowered yet.

    Mur and CJ both place(d) in the top 10 regularly on mantra builds (since the leaderboards came out) when they play.

    I'm also consistently farming the enemy team in nearly all of the games I've played.

    I will upload more when I have time. Also, my win/loss ratio should be a lot higher than it is. Even if I go 15-1 my teams can still throw the game by rotating poorly, feeding, and enabling the enemy teams' snowballs. Don't forget I'm solo quing so having at least one person to rely on other than myself would've made those close/unwinnable matches relatively easy to win with me constantly keeping the enemy team on respawn.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Don't know. This is an interesting experiment and obviously a this small sample size of games wouldn't be representative given how lose or win streaks can creep in.

    I just wonder, if mantras are so broken and overpowered, shouldn't a legend or plat 3+ player have no issue in carrying games? Yes, your 1v1 statistic is positive, which it should be on a dueler against Gold3 and P1-2 opponents simply due to better game understanding and execution.

    Yet I wonder if there isn't some other builds out there which would be just as useful and more in a team setting. Granted, that is no proof that mantra's might still not be overpowered (say if 2-3 other builds were even more busted).

    The way your game distribution goes simply seems to me like a player who has gotten used to his build climbing to his natural rank. That doesn't really scream overpowered yet.

    Mur and CJ both place(d) in the top 10 regularly on mantra builds (since the leaderboards came out) when they play.

    Yes, there is players who can perform very well, even on not overpowered builds. Given how mantras have seen about 1 rework ever, and how mesmer has had his greatsword burst since the start of the game, that doesn't mean the skills or build are overpowered merely consistent. Just as how mesmer and their clones (or stealth) have always been strong against inexperienced players (though here one could make the argument that stealth and clones require additional experience). Which is pretty much everyone up to gold 3.

    It merely means the mechanic might work well against lower brackets of players but once a certain skill ceiling is passed, it loses its benefit.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    I'm also consistently farming the enemy team in nearly all of the games I've played.

    You are a far higher ranked player than most of your opponents. If you weren't farming them, there would be issues. That's like gloating over taking candy from a child (EDIT2: and going to put this here since these are forums and a small poke or quip can be misunderstood. I know you've not actually been gloating, going to leave the poke as to not seem to white wash my post).

    I'm not arguing that mantras are underpowered, I'm wondering if they are that overpowered, given how there is other builds which in an experienced players hands might be just as strong AND potentially more useful to carry a team.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    I will upload more when I have time. Also, my win/loss ratio should be a lot higher than it is. Even if I go 15-1 my teams can still throw the game by rotating poorly, feeding, and enabling the enemy teams' snowballs. Don't forget I'm solo quing so having at least one person to rely on other than myself would've made those close/unwinnable matches relatively easy to win with me constantly keeping the enemy team on respawn.

    You are solo queing on a way lower rating than you naturally play on. Which puts you at a disadvantage against teams where people duo que and know what they are doing, but at a severe advantage against any other lower rank solo player (and duo que players who are not as experienced).

    Again, not every role on a match is able to carry equally well and a strong roamer or good thief controlling close and far might be better at carrying than say a support firebrand, that still leaves you with a lot of games where you went very positiv kill wise but still lost the match. Which means the actual carry potential of a mantra build would be low.

    EDIT: and just to add, I have nothing to win/lose from a change/nerf to mantras. I'm at gold3 atm, which is the rating I usually gravitate to (between 2 and 3) with my very limited pvp experience. I mainly WvW and PvE, where mantras are pretty much unrepresented (on mesmer). Any change to mantras could only make them more useful to me personally, or keep them as useless as they are now. Just wondering if they are really this powerful to warrent special attention in todays pvp setting.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Don't know. This is an interesting experiment and obviously a this small sample size of games wouldn't be representative given how lose or win streaks can creep in.

    I just wonder, if mantras are so broken and overpowered, shouldn't a legend or plat 3+ player have no issue in carrying games? Yes, your 1v1 statistic is positive, which it should be on a dueler against Gold3 and P1-2 opponents simply due to better game understanding and execution.

    Yet I wonder if there isn't some other builds out there which would be just as useful and more in a team setting. Granted, that is no proof that mantra's might still not be overpowered (say if 2-3 other builds were even more busted).

    The way your game distribution goes simply seems to me like a player who has gotten used to his build climbing to his natural rank. That doesn't really scream overpowered yet.

    Mur and CJ both place(d) in the top 10 regularly on mantra builds (since the leaderboards came out) when they play.

    Yes, there is players who can perform very well, even on not overpowered builds. Given how mantras have seen about 1 rework ever, and how mesmer has had his greatsword burst since the start of the game, that doesn't mean the skills or build are overpowered merely consistent. Just as how mesmer and their clones (or stealth) have always been strong against inexperienced players (though here one could make the argument that stealth and clones require additional experience). Which is pretty much everyone up to gold 3.

    It merely means the mechanic might work well against lower brackets of players but once a certain skill ceiling is passed, it loses its benefit.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    I'm also consistently farming the enemy team in nearly all of the games I've played.

    You are a far higher ranked player than most of your opponents. If you weren't farming them, there would be issues. That's like gloating over taking candy from a child. I'm not arguing that mantras are underpowered, I'm wondering if they are that overpowered, given how there is other builds which in an experienced players hands might be just as strong AND potentially more useful to carry a team.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    I will upload more when I have time. Also, my win/loss ratio should be a lot higher than it is. Even if I go 15-1 my teams can still throw the game by rotating poorly, feeding, and enabling the enemy teams' snowballs. Don't forget I'm solo quing so having at least one person to rely on other than myself would've made those close/unwinnable matches relatively easy to win with me constantly keeping the enemy team on respawn.

    You are solo queing on a way lower rating than you naturally play on. Which puts you at a disadvantage against teams where people duo que and know what they are doing, but at a severe advantage against any other lower rank solo player (and duo que players who are not as experienced).

    Again, not every role on a match is able to carry equally well and a strong roamer or good thief controlling close and far might be better at carrying than say a support firebrand, that still leaves you with a lot of games where you went very positiv kill wise but still lost the match. Which means the actual carry potential of a mantra build would be low.

    EDIT: and just to add, I have nothing to win/lose from a change/nerf to mantras. I'm at gold3 atm, which is the rating I usually gravitate to (between 2 and 3) with my very limited pvp experience. I mainly WvW and PvE, where mantras are pretty much unrepresented (on mesmer). Any change to mantras could only make them more useful to me personally, or keep them as useless as they are now. Just wondering if they are really this powerful to warrent special attention in todays pvp setting.

    I disagree. The whole premise of my argument against mantra mesmer is that it has the potential to oneshot top tier players reliably because of the nature of the combo when properly executed. These builds have been showcased in 1v1 tournaments with very good duelists, consistent top 10 representation, and now I just picked it up a few weeks ago and have been rolling over people with ease on a glass cannon build (that also happens to be very hard to actually die on).

    Even in plat 3+ on my main class there aren't many people who can reliably hold their own in a 1v1 with me. So, it's not like I can only farm lower tier players. Not disagreeing with the fact that there are other carry builds as well. This thread was made in response to people who've said mantra mesmer only works against noobs, isn't good to climb with, and doesn't work on EU.

    I don't have time to respond to the rest of that right now. About to leave for school.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Don't know. This is an interesting experiment and obviously a this small sample size of games wouldn't be representative given how lose or win streaks can creep in.

    I just wonder, if mantras are so broken and overpowered, shouldn't a legend or plat 3+ player have no issue in carrying games? Yes, your 1v1 statistic is positive, which it should be on a dueler against Gold3 and P1-2 opponents simply due to better game understanding and execution.

    Yet I wonder if there isn't some other builds out there which would be just as useful and more in a team setting. Granted, that is no proof that mantra's might still not be overpowered (say if 2-3 other builds were even more busted).

    The way your game distribution goes simply seems to me like a player who has gotten used to his build climbing to his natural rank. That doesn't really scream overpowered yet.

    Mur and CJ both place(d) in the top 10 regularly on mantra builds (since the leaderboards came out) when they play.

    Yes, there is players who can perform very well, even on not overpowered builds. Given how mantras have seen about 1 rework ever, and how mesmer has had his greatsword burst since the start of the game, that doesn't mean the skills or build are overpowered merely consistent. Just as how mesmer and their clones (or stealth) have always been strong against inexperienced players (though here one could make the argument that stealth and clones require additional experience). Which is pretty much everyone up to gold 3.

    It merely means the mechanic might work well against lower brackets of players but once a certain skill ceiling is passed, it loses its benefit.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    I'm also consistently farming the enemy team in nearly all of the games I've played.

    You are a far higher ranked player than most of your opponents. If you weren't farming them, there would be issues. That's like gloating over taking candy from a child. I'm not arguing that mantras are underpowered, I'm wondering if they are that overpowered, given how there is other builds which in an experienced players hands might be just as strong AND potentially more useful to carry a team.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    I will upload more when I have time. Also, my win/loss ratio should be a lot higher than it is. Even if I go 15-1 my teams can still throw the game by rotating poorly, feeding, and enabling the enemy teams' snowballs. Don't forget I'm solo quing so having at least one person to rely on other than myself would've made those close/unwinnable matches relatively easy to win with me constantly keeping the enemy team on respawn.

    You are solo queing on a way lower rating than you naturally play on. Which puts you at a disadvantage against teams where people duo que and know what they are doing, but at a severe advantage against any other lower rank solo player (and duo que players who are not as experienced).

    Again, not every role on a match is able to carry equally well and a strong roamer or good thief controlling close and far might be better at carrying than say a support firebrand, that still leaves you with a lot of games where you went very positiv kill wise but still lost the match. Which means the actual carry potential of a mantra build would be low.

    EDIT: and just to add, I have nothing to win/lose from a change/nerf to mantras. I'm at gold3 atm, which is the rating I usually gravitate to (between 2 and 3) with my very limited pvp experience. I mainly WvW and PvE, where mantras are pretty much unrepresented (on mesmer). Any change to mantras could only make them more useful to me personally, or keep them as useless as they are now. Just wondering if they are really this powerful to warrent special attention in todays pvp setting.

    I disagree. The whole premise of my argument against mantra mesmer is that it has the potential to oneshot top tier players reliably because of the nature of the combo when properly executed. These builds have been showcased in 1v1 tournaments with very good duelists, consistent top 10 representation, and now I just picked it up a few weeks ago and have been rolling over people with ease on a glass cannon build (that also happens to be very hard to actually die on).

    Even in plat 3+ on my main class there aren't many people who can reliably hold their own in a 1v1 with me. So, it's not like I can only farm lower tier players. Not disagreeing with the fact that there are other carry builds as well. This thread was made in response to people who've said mantra mesmer only works against noobs, isn't good to climb with, and doesn't work on EU.

    I don't have time to respond to the rest of that right now. About to leave for school.

    Fair enough.

    In that case I would simply add that it is refreshing to have someone at least try to show or make a case for his argument without only complaining, which seems to be most lower (and some higher) rank players approach.

  • @bluri.2653 said:
    I dont know if this was meant to prove how terrible core mantra mes is, all i see is you downstate at least 6 times vs a non thief/rev comp lol

    HAHAHAHAHAAH ikr?!

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2019

    I've updated the original post with 15 new games. These are in 720p!

    Currently rank 80 with 1662 rating.

  • Awesome. Keep it up. Looking forward to see how high of a rank you can get with this.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2019

    God EU match quality is so much worse than NA why the hell do I GET SO MANY kitten AFKERS ON MY TEAM OVER HERE

    I'm like bleeding rating cause I have multiple different idiots AFKing in my games and raging at each other in team chat within the first 50 points AND THEY DON'T kitten LOG OUT!!!!

    AND WHY DO I KEEP GETTING FULL TEAMS OF CORE CLASSES AGAINST FULL STACKED POF ENEMY TEAMS

    I really hate quing on EU

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2019

    3 losses today... my teams were all perma dead/afk and struggled to get above 50/100 points

    what a kitten joke

    imagine being so delusional you actually think EU is better than NA

    the matchmaking and quality of players here are literally the worst I've ever seen in 7 years of playing this game

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2019

    @bluri.2653 said:
    i mean ur downstate to absolute tr a s h players and complain about na being better is this hidden camera or some sort of joke?

    i just casually open ur vid and see this
    https://youtu.be/B6jBuHxV6rE?t=166
    i mean i dont even want to continue looking

    not to mention u queue at the absolute most dead hours, imagine that

    I que when I get home from uni. I try not to que past 6pm est because the matchmaking quality goes down the drain.

    1. I'm on a full glass build with a single stunbreak/mobility skill. If I mess up or am forced to stay in a fight that I shouldn't stay in, I'll probably die. I still kill way more than I die so I'm doing my job of snowballing the enemy teams. Unfortunately, the lack of mobility means I can't rotate to match decaps that well on the core build at least.
    2. I get hit mid-dodge a lot on this ping.
    3. Packet loss also causes a lot of my skills to cast late/with a delay/cancel early because the skills activate when I start to move again.

    Either way, my highest rank on EU so far was around 60 or so on this "trash" mantra build. Vallun was rank 50 on EU last time I checked and he's not considered very good on NA so please, don't lie to yourself about one region being significantly better than the other.

    There are a lot of people that play on both EU and NA for fun. It's pretty well known that the players on EU happen to be a lot more toxic and tend to rage/flame/AFK more compared to people on NA. Also, the quality of pugs are literally garbage. Majority of them don't even know how to recover from a snowball and feed one by one across 3 points rather than just waiting and pushing home. I've found it rare on EU to have a side noder that can hold a node/watch for decaps let alone kill someone in a 1v1.

    Like that match with Tramadex and his ranger duo, they were duo side noders and neither of them stopped the thief from decapping a single time. Funnily enough, that ranger flamed me after the match even though he was literally stalemate 1v1ing the enemy team's warrior on THEIR node for almost a minute straight. Then he says I'm throwing lmao... Our core guardian was forced to keep capping home and this ranger continues to die over and over in 2v2s/team fights and refuses to just leave their warrior afk on mid so that he can actually be useful somewhere else. Trama even threw one of the bells by letting the ranger I oneshot self rez. He had to go back and full cleave the ranger rather than holding bell (50 points for the enemy team) like I was trying to do so they wouldn't get it for free.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @HeadCrowned.6834 said:
    Why are you complaining about core classes on your team while you play core mesmer yourself?

    Core guardian in ranked is basically throwing.
    Playing core necro into double spellbreaker/holo fb scourge is basically throwing.
    Etc. etc.

    If you watch the vids you'll see I'm a lot more useful than my teammates who can rarely kill anyone/survive without me there to get downs.

    Better players can play "underpowered" classes/specs effectively. But rando pugs who don't know how to kite/LoS/use movement and defensive skills properly should just play meta to have the best chances at winning.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Watched a bit of a random video out of curiosity.
    3min in, 2deaths 0kills.
    Heck you don't even shatter accurately, no setup, no f3 stun, nothing.
    So what was the complain again?

    The degenerate

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Watched a bit of a random video out of curiosity.
    3min in, 2deaths 0kills.
    Heck you don't even shatter accurately, no setup, no f3 stun, nothing.
    So what was the complain again?

    " muh team bad ".
    he is slightly better then his teammates but nothing out of the ordinary.
    he would have much better time winning on actual good class like warrior/holo/thief.

  • @bluri.2653 said:
    i mean ur downstate to absolute tr a s h players and complain about na being better is this hidden camera or some sort of joke?

    i just casually open ur vid and see this
    https://youtu.be/B6jBuHxV6rE?t=166
    i mean i dont even want to continue looking

    not to mention u queue at the absolute most dead hours, imagine that

    @HeadCrowned.6834 said:
    Why are you complaining about core classes on your team while you play core mesmer yourself?

    Omg it is the typical NA player. When they win "Im so good" when they lose "omg my team blah blah"

    I found to this guy stream. mira XD. he complain every LOST!

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluri.2653 said:
    i mean ur downstate to absolute tr a s h players and complain about na being better is this hidden camera or some sort of joke?

    i just casually open ur vid and see this
    https://youtu.be/B6jBuHxV6rE?t=166
    i mean i dont even want to continue looking

    not to mention u queue at the absolute most dead hours, imagine that

    All I know That USA been untouched in almost over a year and that's a fact. They Don't even "practice" or play as a group. The Only thing EU has Over Na overall is Just more players and that's about it. Everything else is about as equal as it can be, beside Na having the best Monthly team overall that hasn't Lost to any Eu team that came over for the Monthly.

  • @zoopop.5630 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    i mean ur downstate to absolute tr a s h players and complain about na being better is this hidden camera or some sort of joke?

    i just casually open ur vid and see this
    https://youtu.be/B6jBuHxV6rE?t=166
    i mean i dont even want to continue looking

    not to mention u queue at the absolute most dead hours, imagine that

    All I know That USA been untouched in almost over a year and that's a fact. They Don't even "practice" or play as a group. The Only thing EU has Over Na overall is Just more players and that's about it. Everything else is about as equal as it can be, beside Na having the best Monthly team overall that hasn't Lost to any Eu team that came over for the Monthly.

    And when they come to Eu they lose too. Ping anyone?

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    1. I'm on a full glass build with a single stunbreak/mobility skill. If I mess up or am forced to stay in a fight that I shouldn't stay in, I'll probably die. Unfortunately, the lack of mobility means I can't rotate to match decaps that well on the core build at least.

    Sounds like a build with downsides and for that somehow balanced right?
    And that with you not even being right about the nature of your build: Any build using Chaosline is not a full glass build (a full glass build doesn't use any defensive traitlines or defensive gear, but you have one defensive traitline).
    Even i can play a Core Powermes with Chaosline (and completely without Mantras), because it gives forgiving passive sustain on the defense side and also makes otherwise insane predictable burst way less predictable and easier to hit by stupidly high stealthuptime and can bait defensive cds without any need of outplaying enemies (also because of stealthuptime) on the offensive side. So once again, none of these balance problems from your core build have to do with Mantras itself, the only balance problem your build includes is Chaosline.

    And still you die to bad players with it and i haven't seen you oneshotting a decent player yet, not even with chaosline carry would make it easier to do. I mean you don't want to prove you are a good Mesmer, you want to prove that Mantra Mesmer is op. But even with Chaosline carry i still can't see any prove until now, even though i agree with you about Chaosline being lame and Mantra of Pain being bad design. Still you can't prove that it is any lamer than any meta build and if you would have the balls to run without Chaosline (take Mirageline or whatever instead except Inspiration) and you will be even more behind any meta build and i bet both my legs that you will have even more problems to oneshot any decent player out of only 3 secs torch stealth (means without Chaosline carry) who still has any cds left to counter that.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2019

    @OneOfTheAvengers.3478 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    i mean ur downstate to absolute tr a s h players and complain about na being better is this hidden camera or some sort of joke?

    i just casually open ur vid and see this
    https://youtu.be/B6jBuHxV6rE?t=166
    i mean i dont even want to continue looking

    not to mention u queue at the absolute most dead hours, imagine that

    All I know That USA been untouched in almost over a year and that's a fact. They Don't even "practice" or play as a group. The Only thing EU has Over Na overall is Just more players and that's about it. Everything else is about as equal as it can be, beside Na having the best Monthly team overall that hasn't Lost to any Eu team that came over for the Monthly.

    And when they come to Eu they lose too. Ping anyone?

    huh Last time I seen a member of Usa In Eu they won the monthly ? Unless i'm completely mistaken but i could of sworn half a year ago Naru went to play in one of the Eu teams and won the monthly.

    I'll double check after work but i'm sure he went to Eu and won. Also the only time Eu Monthly team was at it's best was when all the main members of rank 55 was still together, with how it is currently I highly doubt anyone in Eu can Match Team usa.

    UpDate: It wasn't a Monthly it was Just an AT they won vs another good team. Big mistake on my end.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 :
    since last patch and rev 600 aoe unstealth, even on full glass build, torch effects are countered. You can easily imagine how it nullify PU mes.
    (combine it with the classic holo reveal and some fc war and it's a reveal fiesta.)
    So talking about it being a balance issue isn't accurate IMO. it's just inefficient.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:
    @bravan.3876 :
    since last patch and rev 600 aoe unstealth, even on full glass build, torch effects are countered. You can easily imagine how it nullify PU mes.
    (combine it with the classic holo reveal and some fc war and it's a reveal fiesta.)
    So talking about it being a balance issue isn't accurate IMO. it's just inefficient.

    Holo needs to hit to reveal when he doesn't even know a Mesmer is near he will not start attacking the air i guess. Rev also will only reveal when he knows a stealthed Mesmer is around (how often did he get revealed in his videos?), also compare his stealth cds with reveal cds. And: the stealth is only one part of Chaosline (only the PU trait to be exact), the other part is the passive sustain. And vs all other classes without reveal it is an easy bait of defensive cds even when the player knows a stealthed Powermes is near. None of this a Powermes without Chaosline/PU can do. With other words, if you wanna complain about anything of his build than Chaosline is the only thing makes sense to complain about. Nothing is correlated to Mantras (only Mantra of Pain as secondary unhealthy mechanic what is not even needed to oneshot).

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    @bravan.3876 :
    since last patch and rev 600 aoe unstealth, even on full glass build, torch effects are countered. You can easily imagine how it nullify PU mes.
    (combine it with the classic holo reveal and some fc war and it's a reveal fiesta.)
    So talking about it being a balance issue isn't accurate IMO. it's just inefficient.

    Holo needs to hit to reveal when he doesn't even know a Mesmer is near he will not start attacking the air i guess. Rev also will only reveal when he knows a stealthed Mesmer is around (how often did he get revealed in his videos?), also compare his stealth cds with reveal cds. And: the stealth is only one part of Chaosline (only the PU trait to be exact), the other part is the passive sustain. And vs all other classes without reveal it is an easy bait of defensive cds even when the player knows a stealthed Powermes is near. None of this a Powermes without Chaosline/PU can do. With other words, if you wanna complain about anything of his build than Chaosline is the only thing makes sense to complain about. Nothing is correlated to Mantras (only Mantra of Pain as secondary unhealthy mechanic what is not even needed to oneshot).

    After the first burst, everyone know that there is a burst mesmer.
    You can get out of fight, be stealth and have no game impact, sure but you will stay at gold level by doing this.
    A reveal on a build who based his survival on stealth = death. That's make builds like jazz mirage dps useless on top 50+ because rev will have 1) more tempo tools 2) put more pressure 3) more offensive mobility 4) can time a reveal. (thieves do the same without the reveal part.)
    Not to say that they easily put weakness.
    All other class = necro currently have enough life pool to take a full burst and be alive, holo can elixir, thief has passive block, rev has on demand evade/breaksunt, ranger put passive weakness, can have protection and have 1 auto CC immune, weaver have on demand breaksunt+evade, gard will have aegis proc and boons. The only class who can be one shoted in practise at my level are : condi-thieves, pewpewzerk ranger and some core gards. And you have to instantly boom the 4 hit combo just on the target at melee, which is pretty rare on moving target : If you were too near from the target, he can walk behind you and you will not burst. If you were too far, he will see the GS2. I mean the window is really short to be efficient with this kind of builds.
    That's why it is more efficient to play powermirage and put pressure with ambush.
    You can continue whining about PU, there is a reason it's not used and it's not only because you can't cap points during steath.
    Actually it's harder to take PU and navigate between aoe than to take mirage cloak and mobility.
    Look just like you create problem where there isn't btw.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Watched a bit of a random video out of curiosity.
    3min in, 2deaths 0kills.
    Heck you don't even shatter accurately, no setup, no f3 stun, nothing.
    So what was the complain again?

    Usually it's harder to get kills in the initial 4v4 at mid when everyone has full cooldowns and is expecting an opener from the enemy team.

    I've posted my K/Ds after every match from Sessions 3 onwards. The fact that you only watched 3 minutes into the video and are making it sound like I went 0-2 over the course of the entire match is very misleading. Your post and attempt to undermine my OP is entirely strawman.

    I use Diversion if I need the stun to burst. If not, I'm not going to waste the cooldown into stab/blinds/AoE if using it won't make a difference.

    My complaint is that mantras require very little skill to be effective and thus have the ability to consistently oneshot very skilled players if the combo is setup and executed correctly (which isn't that complicated in the first place). I thought it was obvious by now.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Watched a bit of a random video out of curiosity.
    3min in, 2deaths 0kills.
    Heck you don't even shatter accurately, no setup, no f3 stun, nothing.
    So what was the complain again?

    " muh team bad ".
    he is slightly better then his teammates but nothing out of the ordinary.
    he would have much better time winning on actual good class like warrior/holo/thief.

    I've posted my K/D after every match from Sessions 3 onwards. Missed a few because I forgot to take a look at the statistics screen before ending the recording.

    You can clearly see my impact on the games based off of those alone. If you actually watch the videos, you'll see that I'm killing a lot/frequently, downing even more, rarely dying, and you can even see me win 1v1s and 1v2s several times against meta builds/highly ranked players.

    I'm not saying I'm a god but how are you going to call me ordinary when I'm playing a full glass cannon build that I had next to zero experience on prior to making these videos, on six times (or higher) my normal ping, and climbed from around 1440 to top 60 on EU within a few days. It's pretty obvious there's a skill difference between myself and the players I'm fighting even on a class I don't main.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @OneOfTheAvengers.3478 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    i mean ur downstate to absolute tr a s h players and complain about na being better is this hidden camera or some sort of joke?

    i just casually open ur vid and see this
    https://youtu.be/B6jBuHxV6rE?t=166
    i mean i dont even want to continue looking

    not to mention u queue at the absolute most dead hours, imagine that

    @HeadCrowned.6834 said:
    Why are you complaining about core classes on your team while you play core mesmer yourself?

    Omg it is the typical NA player. When they win "Im so good" when they lose "omg my team blah blah"

    I found to this guy stream. mira XD. he complain every LOST!

    I still farm the enemy teams when I lose so yeah, when I blame my teammates it's usually for a reason.

    For example, I won a 1v2 against the rank 9 player on the EU leaderboards but the enemy team still had mid and home and our thief was dead. Like... HELLO? I'm perfectly justified to blame my teammates at that point. What else am I supposed to do?

    "kitten. I should've 1v3'd or 1v4'd instead!"

    Get real here. My teammates being consistently unable to win fights, hold nodes, decap, or rotate properly is stupid.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    @bravan.3876 :
    since last patch and rev 600 aoe unstealth, even on full glass build, torch effects are countered. You can easily imagine how it nullify PU mes.
    (combine it with the classic holo reveal and some fc war and it's a reveal fiesta.)
    So talking about it being a balance issue isn't accurate IMO. it's just inefficient.

    Holo needs to hit to reveal when he doesn't even know a Mesmer is near he will not start attacking the air i guess. Rev also will only reveal when he knows a stealthed Mesmer is around (how often did he get revealed in his videos?), also compare his stealth cds with reveal cds. And: the stealth is only one part of Chaosline (only the PU trait to be exact), the other part is the passive sustain. And vs all other classes without reveal it is an easy bait of defensive cds even when the player knows a stealthed Powermes is near. None of this a Powermes without Chaosline/PU can do. With other words, if you wanna complain about anything of his build than Chaosline is the only thing makes sense to complain about. Nothing is correlated to Mantras (only Mantra of Pain as secondary unhealthy mechanic what is not even needed to oneshot).

    After the first burst, everyone know that there is a burst mesmer.
    You can get out of fight, be stealth and have no game impact, sure but you will stay at gold level by doing this.
    A reveal on a build who based his survival on stealth = death. That's make builds like jazz mirage dps useless on top 50+ because rev will have 1) more tempo tools 2) put more pressure 3) more offensive mobility 4) can time a reveal. (thieves do the same without the reveal part.)
    Not to say that they easily put weakness.
    All other class = necro currently have enough life pool to take a full burst and be alive, holo can elixir, thief has passive block, rev has on demand evade/breaksunt, ranger put passive weakness, can have protection and have 1 auto CC immune, weaver have on demand breaksunt+evade, gard will have aegis proc and boons. The only class who can be one shoted in practise at my level are : condi-thieves, pewpewzerk ranger and some core gards. And you have to instantly boom the 4 hit combo just on the target at melee, which is pretty rare on moving target : If you were too near from the target, he can walk behind you and you will not burst. If you were too far, he will see the GS2. I mean the window is really short to be efficient with this kind of builds.
    That's why it is more efficient to play powermirage and put pressure with ambush.
    You can continue whining about PU, there is a reason it's not used and it's not only because you can't cap points during steath.
    Actually it's harder to take PU and navigate between aoe than to take mirage cloak and mobility.
    Look just like you create problem where there isn't btw.

    Dude xD You sound like all of the pvp maps are permanently overflowed with reveal debuff... There are 2 out of 9 classes having reveal in their common builds and none of them can perma reveal, they either have to predcit the incoming Mesmer exact to the ms even when they know there is a oneshot Mesmer in the match or they need to perma reveal (what is not possible). Reveal is rly not a crucial thing to this build in its current state and amount. Engi hit is easy to avoid in stealth. I mean you watched his videos or not? How often he got revealed in a for him crucial moment? And hiding a little bit in stealth or disengage to lose focus on him and make his rejoin moment unpredictable with his amount of stealth will not throw any match.

    No clue why you mention this Mirage build, it doesn't rely on stealth (only has 3 secs stealth on 30 sec cd to beginn with), it is also not a oneshot build and it is played by several Mesmers in Top 50 in EU and NA with few variations. And from my own experience it is way harder to play than Chaosline Core because of the stuff i mentioned already:

    1. it can bait out defensive cds way easier without even the need of actively outplaying the opponent (even when the opponent already knows a stealthspam oneshot Mesmer is near) by simple long duration stealth uptime and -amount (only possible with Chaosline) and that vs 7 out of 9 classes without any restriction and vs 2 classes with little restriction of one reveal as counter (max 2 when the fight is very long). With other words Chaosline makes it more unpredictable and for that way easier to hit an otherwise easy to counter oneshot combo. For me it feels everyhting that can be countered in any way is useless in your eyes...
    2. only Chaosline/ Mass Invis gives the ability to completely attack and oneshot out of nowhere. No other Mesmer build can stack stealth completely out of ear shot and visible range, makes even reveal skills useless in these situations
    3. passive sustain from Chaosline makes this build pretty forgiving to play compared to Mesmerbuilds without it (no matter what spec), it is a "not full glass" build with "full glass" dmg
    4. even with one defensive traitline this build still has more dmg than a pure glass Powermirage (Anet always was bad in balancing the sustain-dmg relation, same problem with all the other bruiser builds can passively facetank for ages and still have tons of dmg, example Holo).
    5. Yes it has less mobility (remember when you argued with me that core now has very good mobility thanks to superspeed? During i told you that Sword-Mirage still has bit better mobility with lower costs in cds? Means now you switch your argumentation 180 degree and disagree with yourself) but that is only a point about usefulness in conquest not about how much it will carry the player. Just like the countless guy with his useless inspiration signet invuln-spam build: shadowpass switched teamcarry (mobility) for personal carry. Even though shadowpass build is sure more useful in conquest than the countless build.
    6. It doesn't matter how much something is used, it simply says nothing about how op or easy to use something is. PU always was an unhealthy and low skill ceiling mechanic should not exist at all and most defensive traitlines in this game no matter what class should be desinged more active and for that with higher skill ceiling right from the start. Also PU is used, as you can see in his videos and he is not the only one. There is a reason why all the Chrono oneshot heroes switched to Core PU instead Zeromis's or Jazz's Powermirage, because this Powermirage build is not a stealthspam oneshotfeast build what needs to outplay opponents much more to hit any combo and is for that way less newbiefriendly. Even Mantra Oneshot Mirage is harder to play because it neither has the passive sustain from Chaosline nor the stupidly high duration/ amount of stealth from PU to make easy to counter oneshotcombos less predictable so even low skilled noobs can get a oneshot here and there.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @OneOfTheAvengers.3478 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    i mean ur downstate to absolute tr a s h players and complain about na being better is this hidden camera or some sort of joke?

    i just casually open ur vid and see this
    https://youtu.be/B6jBuHxV6rE?t=166
    i mean i dont even want to continue looking

    not to mention u queue at the absolute most dead hours, imagine that

    @HeadCrowned.6834 said:
    Why are you complaining about core classes on your team while you play core mesmer yourself?

    Omg it is the typical NA player. When they win "Im so good" when they lose "omg my team blah blah"

    I found to this guy stream. mira XD. he complain every LOST!

    I still farm the enemy teams when I lose so yeah, when I blame my teammates it's usually for a reason.

    For example, I won a 1v2 against the rank 9 player on the EU leaderboards but the enemy team still had mid and home and our thief was dead. Like... HELLO? I'm perfectly justified to blame my teammates at that point. What else am I supposed to do?

    "kitten. I should've 1v3'd or 1v4'd instead!"

    Get real here. My teammates being consistently unable to win fights, hold nodes, decap, or rotate properly is stupid.

    Hmm might I suggest against avoiding prime time queue? Is there a reason you avoid playing with our top players? At your time you play, you have gold team and play against gold team. Much lossing much dying and lots of excuse. I don't need details. You are just like other Na players.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2019

    @OneOfTheAvengers.3478 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @OneOfTheAvengers.3478 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    i mean ur downstate to absolute tr a s h players and complain about na being better is this hidden camera or some sort of joke?

    i just casually open ur vid and see this
    https://youtu.be/B6jBuHxV6rE?t=166
    i mean i dont even want to continue looking

    not to mention u queue at the absolute most dead hours, imagine that

    @HeadCrowned.6834 said:
    Why are you complaining about core classes on your team while you play core mesmer yourself?

    Omg it is the typical NA player. When they win "Im so good" when they lose "omg my team blah blah"

    I found to this guy stream. mira XD. he complain every LOST!

    I still farm the enemy teams when I lose so yeah, when I blame my teammates it's usually for a reason.

    For example, I won a 1v2 against the rank 9 player on the EU leaderboards but the enemy team still had mid and home and our thief was dead. Like... HELLO? I'm perfectly justified to blame my teammates at that point. What else am I supposed to do?

    "kitten. I should've 1v3'd or 1v4'd instead!"

    Get real here. My teammates being consistently unable to win fights, hold nodes, decap, or rotate properly is stupid.

    Hmm might I suggest against avoiding prime time queue? Is there a reason you avoid playing with our top players? At your time you play, you have gold team and play against gold team. Much lossing much dying and lots of excuse. I don't need details. You are just like other Na players.

    I uploaded footage of me beating Flandre and Sinid duo. I also have footage of me winning a 1v2 against the rank 9 player on EU yesterday which I haven't uploaded yet.

    And yes, I go to university in the US. I get home between 3pm-8pm est and try not to que past 12am european time.

    Much dying? Are you blind? lol

    For the record, I've fought against Sind's team several times in tournaments. Fighting Sind feels very similar to fighting Toker and honestly, the rest of your top players aren't any different skill-wise compared to ours.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    @bravan.3876 :
    since last patch and rev 600 aoe unstealth, even on full glass build, torch effects are countered. You can easily imagine how it nullify PU mes.
    (combine it with the classic holo reveal and some fc war and it's a reveal fiesta.)
    So talking about it being a balance issue isn't accurate IMO. it's just inefficient.

    Holo needs to hit to reveal when he doesn't even know a Mesmer is near he will not start attacking the air i guess. Rev also will only reveal when he knows a stealthed Mesmer is around (how often did he get revealed in his videos?), also compare his stealth cds with reveal cds. And: the stealth is only one part of Chaosline (only the PU trait to be exact), the other part is the passive sustain. And vs all other classes without reveal it is an easy bait of defensive cds even when the player knows a stealthed Powermes is near. None of this a Powermes without Chaosline/PU can do. With other words, if you wanna complain about anything of his build than Chaosline is the only thing makes sense to complain about. Nothing is correlated to Mantras (only Mantra of Pain as secondary unhealthy mechanic what is not even needed to oneshot).

    After the first burst, everyone know that there is a burst mesmer.
    You can get out of fight, be stealth and have no game impact, sure but you will stay at gold level by doing this.
    A reveal on a build who based his survival on stealth = death. That's make builds like jazz mirage dps useless on top 50+ because rev will have 1) more tempo tools 2) put more pressure 3) more offensive mobility 4) can time a reveal. (thieves do the same without the reveal part.)
    Not to say that they easily put weakness.
    All other class = necro currently have enough life pool to take a full burst and be alive, holo can elixir, thief has passive block, rev has on demand evade/breaksunt, ranger put passive weakness, can have protection and have 1 auto CC immune, weaver have on demand breaksunt+evade, gard will have aegis proc and boons. The only class who can be one shoted in practise at my level are : condi-thieves, pewpewzerk ranger and some core gards. And you have to instantly boom the 4 hit combo just on the target at melee, which is pretty rare on moving target : If you were too near from the target, he can walk behind you and you will not burst. If you were too far, he will see the GS2. I mean the window is really short to be efficient with this kind of builds.
    That's why it is more efficient to play powermirage and put pressure with ambush.
    You can continue whining about PU, there is a reason it's not used and it's not only because you can't cap points during steath.
    Actually it's harder to take PU and navigate between aoe than to take mirage cloak and mobility.
    Look just like you create problem where there isn't btw.

    Dude xD You sound like all of the pvp maps are permanently overflowed with reveal debuff... There are 2 out of 9 classes having reveal in their common builds and none of them can perma reveal, they either have to predcit the incoming Mesmer exact to the ms even when they know there is a oneshot Mesmer in the match or they need to perma reveal (what is not possible). Reveal is rly not a crucial thing to this build in its current state and amount. Engi hit is easy to avoid in stealth. I mean you watched his videos or not? How often he got revealed in a for him crucial moment? And hiding a little bit in stealth or disengage to lose focus on him and make his rejoin moment unpredictable with his amount of stealth will not throw any match.

    No clue why you mention this Mirage build, it doesn't rely on stealth (only has 3 secs stealth on 30 sec cd to beginn with), it is also not a oneshot build and it is played by several Mesmers in Top 50 in EU and NA with few variations. And from my own experience it is way harder to play than Chaosline Core because of the stuff i mentioned already:

    1. it can bait out defensive cds way easier without even the need of actively outplaying the opponent (even when the opponent already knows a stealthspam oneshot Mesmer is near) by simple long duration stealth uptime and -amount (only possible with Chaosline) and that vs 7 out of 9 classes without any restriction and vs 2 classes with little restriction of one reveal as counter (max 2 when the fight is very long). With other words Chaosline makes it more unpredictable and for that way easier to hit an otherwise easy to counter oneshot combo. For me it feels everyhting that can be countered in any way is useless in your eyes...
    2. only Chaosline/ Mass Invis gives the ability to completely attack and oneshot out of nowhere. No other Mesmer build can stack stealth completely out of ear shot and visible range, makes even reveal skills useless in these situations
    3. passive sustain from Chaosline makes this build pretty forgiving to play compared to Mesmerbuilds without it (no matter what spec), it is a "not full glass" build with "full glass" dmg
    4. even with one defensive traitline this build still has more dmg than a pure glass Powermirage (Anet always was bad in balancing the sustain-dmg relation, same problem with all the other bruiser builds can passively facetank for ages and still have tons of dmg, example Holo).
    5. Yes it has less mobility (remember when you argued with me that core now has very good mobility thanks to superspeed? During i told you that Sword-Mirage still has bit better mobility with lower costs in cds? Means now you switch your argumentation 180 degree and disagree with yourself) but that is only a point about usefulness in conquest not about how much it will carry the player. Just like the countless guy with his useless inspiration signet invuln-spam build: shadowpass switched teamcarry (mobility) for personal carry. Even though shadowpass build is sure more useful in conquest than the countless build.
    6. It doesn't matter how much something is used, it simply says nothing about how op or easy to use something is. PU always was an unhealthy and low skill ceiling mechanic should not exist at all and most defensive traitlines in this game no matter what class should be desinged more active and for that with higher skill ceiling right from the start. Also PU is used, as you can see in his videos and he is not the only one. There is a reason why all the Chrono oneshot heroes switched to Core PU instead Zeromis's or Jazz's Powermirage, because this Powermirage build is not a stealthspam oneshotfeast build what needs to outplay opponents much more to hit any combo and is for that way less newbiefriendly. Even Mantra Oneshot Mirage is harder to play because it neither has the passive sustain from Chaosline nor the stupidly high duration/ amount of stealth from PU to make easy to counter oneshotcombos less predictable so even low skilled noobs can get a oneshot here and there.

    Well I will explain it better : it's more efficient to put pressure from clone ambush and can load high burst like in powermirage than to hide in stealth (during this time opponent can regen/prepare/decap/run away) to only land bursts.

    Now chaos line is not a passive traitline but the only traitline left who is gameplay defining. I mean choose domination or duel you will always play the same way.
    Choose chaos, you can play with a double chaos storm for in point figthing or with superspeed on manipulation for better mobility.
    You can choose between condiclear or better protection uptime with comboing ether field.
    And finally, you can choose between stealth or better vigor uptime(+other boon on shatter.).
    That's why I will not let you destroy the only traitline left who allow mesmer to do real choice about the type of play he want. And for that no PU is not op at all.

    I mention mirage because I'm one of the top 50 powermirage left and we I face rev at this level, they clearly know how to bait torch tempo which hurt really hard considering you haven't other way to get out of their focus. Which should hurt way much PU builds.
    About your 2 nd point : again it's harder to oneshot as long as the target is mobile than to pressure by clone ambush.
    3 rd : which passive sustain ? the auto protection/regen proc ? It's far to be passive in the current meta.
    4 : no, glasspowermirage output the same burst combo while having more power uptime, putting more vulnerability stacks and more pressure thanks to clone ambush.
    5 : core with superspeed has good mobility yeah and it's better during fight for kitting whereas powermirage is better to move point to point.
    6 : people always use the easiest way to win. Ofc it matter if we never see someone with it.

    Zeromis's or Jazz's Powermirage, because this Powermirage build is not a stealthspam oneshotfeast build what needs to outplay opponents much more to hit any combo and is for that way less newbiefriendly.

    No, it's a clone ambushspam fiesta which is more efficient IMO, which is far to be less newbiefirendly. I mean come on I play it currently, in which world will I play something not efficient :) .
    One shot mirage didn't exist, it's just a powermirage with more pressure.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    @bravan.3876 :
    since last patch and rev 600 aoe unstealth, even on full glass build, torch effects are countered. You can easily imagine how it nullify PU mes.
    (combine it with the classic holo reveal and some fc war and it's a reveal fiesta.)
    So talking about it being a balance issue isn't accurate IMO. it's just inefficient.

    Holo needs to hit to reveal when he doesn't even know a Mesmer is near he will not start attacking the air i guess. Rev also will only reveal when he knows a stealthed Mesmer is around (how often did he get revealed in his videos?), also compare his stealth cds with reveal cds. And: the stealth is only one part of Chaosline (only the PU trait to be exact), the other part is the passive sustain. And vs all other classes without reveal it is an easy bait of defensive cds even when the player knows a stealthed Powermes is near. None of this a Powermes without Chaosline/PU can do. With other words, if you wanna complain about anything of his build than Chaosline is the only thing makes sense to complain about. Nothing is correlated to Mantras (only Mantra of Pain as secondary unhealthy mechanic what is not even needed to oneshot).

    After the first burst, everyone know that there is a burst mesmer.
    You can get out of fight, be stealth and have no game impact, sure but you will stay at gold level by doing this.
    A reveal on a build who based his survival on stealth = death. That's make builds like jazz mirage dps useless on top 50+ because rev will have 1) more tempo tools 2) put more pressure 3) more offensive mobility 4) can time a reveal. (thieves do the same without the reveal part.)
    Not to say that they easily put weakness.
    All other class = necro currently have enough life pool to take a full burst and be alive, holo can elixir, thief has passive block, rev has on demand evade/breaksunt, ranger put passive weakness, can have protection and have 1 auto CC immune, weaver have on demand breaksunt+evade, gard will have aegis proc and boons. The only class who can be one shoted in practise at my level are : condi-thieves, pewpewzerk ranger and some core gards. And you have to instantly boom the 4 hit combo just on the target at melee, which is pretty rare on moving target : If you were too near from the target, he can walk behind you and you will not burst. If you were too far, he will see the GS2. I mean the window is really short to be efficient with this kind of builds.
    That's why it is more efficient to play powermirage and put pressure with ambush.
    You can continue whining about PU, there is a reason it's not used and it's not only because you can't cap points during steath.
    Actually it's harder to take PU and navigate between aoe than to take mirage cloak and mobility.
    Look just like you create problem where there isn't btw.

    Dude xD You sound like all of the pvp maps are permanently overflowed with reveal debuff... There are 2 out of 9 classes having reveal in their common builds and none of them can perma reveal, they either have to predcit the incoming Mesmer exact to the ms even when they know there is a oneshot Mesmer in the match or they need to perma reveal (what is not possible). Reveal is rly not a crucial thing to this build in its current state and amount. Engi hit is easy to avoid in stealth. I mean you watched his videos or not? How often he got revealed in a for him crucial moment? And hiding a little bit in stealth or disengage to lose focus on him and make his rejoin moment unpredictable with his amount of stealth will not throw any match.

    No clue why you mention this Mirage build, it doesn't rely on stealth (only has 3 secs stealth on 30 sec cd to beginn with), it is also not a oneshot build and it is played by several Mesmers in Top 50 in EU and NA with few variations. And from my own experience it is way harder to play than Chaosline Core because of the stuff i mentioned already:

    1. it can bait out defensive cds way easier without even the need of actively outplaying the opponent (even when the opponent already knows a stealthspam oneshot Mesmer is near) by simple long duration stealth uptime and -amount (only possible with Chaosline) and that vs 7 out of 9 classes without any restriction and vs 2 classes with little restriction of one reveal as counter (max 2 when the fight is very long). With other words Chaosline makes it more unpredictable and for that way easier to hit an otherwise easy to counter oneshot combo. For me it feels everyhting that can be countered in any way is useless in your eyes...
    2. only Chaosline/ Mass Invis gives the ability to completely attack and oneshot out of nowhere. No other Mesmer build can stack stealth completely out of ear shot and visible range, makes even reveal skills useless in these situations
    3. passive sustain from Chaosline makes this build pretty forgiving to play compared to Mesmerbuilds without it (no matter what spec), it is a "not full glass" build with "full glass" dmg
    4. even with one defensive traitline this build still has more dmg than a pure glass Powermirage (Anet always was bad in balancing the sustain-dmg relation, same problem with all the other bruiser builds can passively facetank for ages and still have tons of dmg, example Holo).
    5. Yes it has less mobility (remember when you argued with me that core now has very good mobility thanks to superspeed? During i told you that Sword-Mirage still has bit better mobility with lower costs in cds? Means now you switch your argumentation 180 degree and disagree with yourself) but that is only a point about usefulness in conquest not about how much it will carry the player. Just like the countless guy with his useless inspiration signet invuln-spam build: shadowpass switched teamcarry (mobility) for personal carry. Even though shadowpass build is sure more useful in conquest than the countless build.
    6. It doesn't matter how much something is used, it simply says nothing about how op or easy to use something is. PU always was an unhealthy and low skill ceiling mechanic should not exist at all and most defensive traitlines in this game no matter what class should be desinged more active and for that with higher skill ceiling right from the start. Also PU is used, as you can see in his videos and he is not the only one. There is a reason why all the Chrono oneshot heroes switched to Core PU instead Zeromis's or Jazz's Powermirage, because this Powermirage build is not a stealthspam oneshotfeast build what needs to outplay opponents much more to hit any combo and is for that way less newbiefriendly. Even Mantra Oneshot Mirage is harder to play because it neither has the passive sustain from Chaosline nor the stupidly high duration/ amount of stealth from PU to make easy to counter oneshotcombos less predictable so even low skilled noobs can get a oneshot here and there.

    Well I will explain it better : it's more efficient to put pressure from clone ambush and can load high burst like in powermirage than to hide in stealth (during this time opponent can regen/prepare/decap/run away) to only land bursts.

    Now chaos line is not a passive traitline but the only traitline left who is gameplay defining. I mean choose domination or duel you will always play the same way.
    Choose chaos, you can play with a double chaos storm for in point figthing or with superspeed on manipulation for better mobility.
    You can choose between condiclear or better protection uptime with comboing ether field.
    And finally, you can choose between stealth or better vigor uptime(+other boon on shatter.).
    That's why I will not let you destroy the only traitline left who allow mesmer to do real choice about the type of play he want. And for that no PU is not op at all.

    I mention mirage because I'm one of the top 50 powermirage left and we I face rev at this level, they clearly know how to bait torch tempo which hurt really hard considering you haven't other way to get out of their focus. Which should hurt way much PU builds.
    About your 2 nd point : again it's harder to oneshot as long as the target is mobile than to pressure by clone ambush.
    3 rd : which passive sustain ? the auto protection/regen proc ? It's far to be passive in the current meta.
    4 : no, glasspowermirage output the same burst combo while having more power uptime, putting more vulnerability stacks and more pressure thanks to clone ambush.
    5 : core with superspeed has good mobility yeah and it's better during fight for kitting whereas powermirage is better to move point to point.
    6 : people always use the easiest way to win. Ofc it matter if we never see someone with it.

    Zeromis's or Jazz's Powermirage, because this Powermirage build is not a stealthspam oneshotfeast build what needs to outplay opponents much more to hit any combo and is for that way less newbiefriendly.

    No, it's a clone ambushspam fiesta which is more efficient IMO, which is far to be less newbiefirendly. I mean come on I play it currently, in which world will I play something not efficient :) .
    One shot mirage didn't exist, it's just a powermirage with more pressure.

    I think we better just agree to disagree again before we spam this thread any longer. But gs clone ambushes do laughable dmg, i never saw a good Powermirage only standing ín range and spam gs ambushes ever. That would be a good way to land in gold. And with domination traitline you easy get maximum stacks of vulnerability already very fast during a fight. Ambsuhes just add aoe to it gives Mirage a better cleave and a bit better sustain dmg and for that more teamfight viablility. It still is way harder to land a oneshot combo (aside from these builds don't even have oneshot dmg because of no dmg traits) you need to bait defensive cds before otherwise every decent player will just evade your gs2 burst and you need to bait it by actively outplaying ppl not by simple stealthuptime. It is not only the minor traits also the passive boon generation during stealth is passive, aside from PU being an unhealthy mechanic in general. Chaosline clearly has a lower skill ceiling than any other traitline, together with Inspiration ofc, and every skilled Mesmer main would tell you that.

    And ofc oneshot mirage exist but compared to the core chaosline build it rly needs Mantra of Pain to oneshot the same builds the core build can oneshot wihtout any mantra used.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    @bravan.3876 :
    since last patch and rev 600 aoe unstealth, even on full glass build, torch effects are countered. You can easily imagine how it nullify PU mes.
    (combine it with the classic holo reveal and some fc war and it's a reveal fiesta.)
    So talking about it being a balance issue isn't accurate IMO. it's just inefficient.

    Holo needs to hit to reveal when he doesn't even know a Mesmer is near he will not start attacking the air i guess. Rev also will only reveal when he knows a stealthed Mesmer is around (how often did he get revealed in his videos?), also compare his stealth cds with reveal cds. And: the stealth is only one part of Chaosline (only the PU trait to be exact), the other part is the passive sustain. And vs all other classes without reveal it is an easy bait of defensive cds even when the player knows a stealthed Powermes is near. None of this a Powermes without Chaosline/PU can do. With other words, if you wanna complain about anything of his build than Chaosline is the only thing makes sense to complain about. Nothing is correlated to Mantras (only Mantra of Pain as secondary unhealthy mechanic what is not even needed to oneshot).

    After the first burst, everyone know that there is a burst mesmer.
    You can get out of fight, be stealth and have no game impact, sure but you will stay at gold level by doing this.
    A reveal on a build who based his survival on stealth = death. That's make builds like jazz mirage dps useless on top 50+ because rev will have 1) more tempo tools 2) put more pressure 3) more offensive mobility 4) can time a reveal. (thieves do the same without the reveal part.)
    Not to say that they easily put weakness.
    All other class = necro currently have enough life pool to take a full burst and be alive, holo can elixir, thief has passive block, rev has on demand evade/breaksunt, ranger put passive weakness, can have protection and have 1 auto CC immune, weaver have on demand breaksunt+evade, gard will have aegis proc and boons. The only class who can be one shoted in practise at my level are : condi-thieves, pewpewzerk ranger and some core gards. And you have to instantly boom the 4 hit combo just on the target at melee, which is pretty rare on moving target : If you were too near from the target, he can walk behind you and you will not burst. If you were too far, he will see the GS2. I mean the window is really short to be efficient with this kind of builds.
    That's why it is more efficient to play powermirage and put pressure with ambush.
    You can continue whining about PU, there is a reason it's not used and it's not only because you can't cap points during steath.
    Actually it's harder to take PU and navigate between aoe than to take mirage cloak and mobility.
    Look just like you create problem where there isn't btw.

    Dude xD You sound like all of the pvp maps are permanently overflowed with reveal debuff... There are 2 out of 9 classes having reveal in their common builds and none of them can perma reveal, they either have to predcit the incoming Mesmer exact to the ms even when they know there is a oneshot Mesmer in the match or they need to perma reveal (what is not possible). Reveal is rly not a crucial thing to this build in its current state and amount. Engi hit is easy to avoid in stealth. I mean you watched his videos or not? How often he got revealed in a for him crucial moment? And hiding a little bit in stealth or disengage to lose focus on him and make his rejoin moment unpredictable with his amount of stealth will not throw any match.

    No clue why you mention this Mirage build, it doesn't rely on stealth (only has 3 secs stealth on 30 sec cd to beginn with), it is also not a oneshot build and it is played by several Mesmers in Top 50 in EU and NA with few variations. And from my own experience it is way harder to play than Chaosline Core because of the stuff i mentioned already:

    1. it can bait out defensive cds way easier without even the need of actively outplaying the opponent (even when the opponent already knows a stealthspam oneshot Mesmer is near) by simple long duration stealth uptime and -amount (only possible with Chaosline) and that vs 7 out of 9 classes without any restriction and vs 2 classes with little restriction of one reveal as counter (max 2 when the fight is very long). With other words Chaosline makes it more unpredictable and for that way easier to hit an otherwise easy to counter oneshot combo. For me it feels everyhting that can be countered in any way is useless in your eyes...
    2. only Chaosline/ Mass Invis gives the ability to completely attack and oneshot out of nowhere. No other Mesmer build can stack stealth completely out of ear shot and visible range, makes even reveal skills useless in these situations
    3. passive sustain from Chaosline makes this build pretty forgiving to play compared to Mesmerbuilds without it (no matter what spec), it is a "not full glass" build with "full glass" dmg
    4. even with one defensive traitline this build still has more dmg than a pure glass Powermirage (Anet always was bad in balancing the sustain-dmg relation, same problem with all the other bruiser builds can passively facetank for ages and still have tons of dmg, example Holo).
    5. Yes it has less mobility (remember when you argued with me that core now has very good mobility thanks to superspeed? During i told you that Sword-Mirage still has bit better mobility with lower costs in cds? Means now you switch your argumentation 180 degree and disagree with yourself) but that is only a point about usefulness in conquest not about how much it will carry the player. Just like the countless guy with his useless inspiration signet invuln-spam build: shadowpass switched teamcarry (mobility) for personal carry. Even though shadowpass build is sure more useful in conquest than the countless build.
    6. It doesn't matter how much something is used, it simply says nothing about how op or easy to use something is. PU always was an unhealthy and low skill ceiling mechanic should not exist at all and most defensive traitlines in this game no matter what class should be desinged more active and for that with higher skill ceiling right from the start. Also PU is used, as you can see in his videos and he is not the only one. There is a reason why all the Chrono oneshot heroes switched to Core PU instead Zeromis's or Jazz's Powermirage, because this Powermirage build is not a stealthspam oneshotfeast build what needs to outplay opponents much more to hit any combo and is for that way less newbiefriendly. Even Mantra Oneshot Mirage is harder to play because it neither has the passive sustain from Chaosline nor the stupidly high duration/ amount of stealth from PU to make easy to counter oneshotcombos less predictable so even low skilled noobs can get a oneshot here and there.

    Well I will explain it better : it's more efficient to put pressure from clone ambush and can load high burst like in powermirage than to hide in stealth (during this time opponent can regen/prepare/decap/run away) to only land bursts.

    Now chaos line is not a passive traitline but the only traitline left who is gameplay defining. I mean choose domination or duel you will always play the same way.
    Choose chaos, you can play with a double chaos storm for in point figthing or with superspeed on manipulation for better mobility.
    You can choose between condiclear or better protection uptime with comboing ether field.
    And finally, you can choose between stealth or better vigor uptime(+other boon on shatter.).
    That's why I will not let you destroy the only traitline left who allow mesmer to do real choice about the type of play he want. And for that no PU is not op at all.

    I mention mirage because I'm one of the top 50 powermirage left and we I face rev at this level, they clearly know how to bait torch tempo which hurt really hard considering you haven't other way to get out of their focus. Which should hurt way much PU builds.
    About your 2 nd point : again it's harder to oneshot as long as the target is mobile than to pressure by clone ambush.
    3 rd : which passive sustain ? the auto protection/regen proc ? It's far to be passive in the current meta.
    4 : no, glasspowermirage output the same burst combo while having more power uptime, putting more vulnerability stacks and more pressure thanks to clone ambush.
    5 : core with superspeed has good mobility yeah and it's better during fight for kitting whereas powermirage is better to move point to point.
    6 : people always use the easiest way to win. Ofc it matter if we never see someone with it.

    Zeromis's or Jazz's Powermirage, because this Powermirage build is not a stealthspam oneshotfeast build what needs to outplay opponents much more to hit any combo and is for that way less newbiefriendly.

    No, it's a clone ambushspam fiesta which is more efficient IMO, which is far to be less newbiefirendly. I mean come on I play it currently, in which world will I play something not efficient :) .
    One shot mirage didn't exist, it's just a powermirage with more pressure.

    I remember landing entire "1shot" combo on a warrior, read throught logs and boomshakalaka 12,3k dmg.
    he threw a rock at me for 9k.
    I agree on chaos line. all other lines are super boring, no choices whatsoever. When I go dueling biggest choice I have is do i get blind on f2 or random reflect on dodge or sword ferocity + cdr. all are medicore. GM traits are damage or damage?

    entire point of this was to show how he climbs and 1shots "pro players" I honestly dont see it here.
    good players take ammulets that dont let you do that. there are warriors that have extra armour and hp and it just doesnt work.
    It is funny/annoying when it happens 1/10 but thats about it.
    when i played against "1shot" mesmer I still get 1shot more by warriors that throw rock-> dash.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    @bravan.3876 :
    since last patch and rev 600 aoe unstealth, even on full glass build, torch effects are countered. You can easily imagine how it nullify PU mes.
    (combine it with the classic holo reveal and some fc war and it's a reveal fiesta.)
    So talking about it being a balance issue isn't accurate IMO. it's just inefficient.

    Holo needs to hit to reveal when he doesn't even know a Mesmer is near he will not start attacking the air i guess. Rev also will only reveal when he knows a stealthed Mesmer is around (how often did he get revealed in his videos?), also compare his stealth cds with reveal cds. And: the stealth is only one part of Chaosline (only the PU trait to be exact), the other part is the passive sustain. And vs all other classes without reveal it is an easy bait of defensive cds even when the player knows a stealthed Powermes is near. None of this a Powermes without Chaosline/PU can do. With other words, if you wanna complain about anything of his build than Chaosline is the only thing makes sense to complain about. Nothing is correlated to Mantras (only Mantra of Pain as secondary unhealthy mechanic what is not even needed to oneshot).

    After the first burst, everyone know that there is a burst mesmer.
    You can get out of fight, be stealth and have no game impact, sure but you will stay at gold level by doing this.
    A reveal on a build who based his survival on stealth = death. That's make builds like jazz mirage dps useless on top 50+ because rev will have 1) more tempo tools 2) put more pressure 3) more offensive mobility 4) can time a reveal. (thieves do the same without the reveal part.)
    Not to say that they easily put weakness.
    All other class = necro currently have enough life pool to take a full burst and be alive, holo can elixir, thief has passive block, rev has on demand evade/breaksunt, ranger put passive weakness, can have protection and have 1 auto CC immune, weaver have on demand breaksunt+evade, gard will have aegis proc and boons. The only class who can be one shoted in practise at my level are : condi-thieves, pewpewzerk ranger and some core gards. And you have to instantly boom the 4 hit combo just on the target at melee, which is pretty rare on moving target : If you were too near from the target, he can walk behind you and you will not burst. If you were too far, he will see the GS2. I mean the window is really short to be efficient with this kind of builds.
    That's why it is more efficient to play powermirage and put pressure with ambush.
    You can continue whining about PU, there is a reason it's not used and it's not only because you can't cap points during steath.
    Actually it's harder to take PU and navigate between aoe than to take mirage cloak and mobility.
    Look just like you create problem where there isn't btw.

    Dude xD You sound like all of the pvp maps are permanently overflowed with reveal debuff... There are 2 out of 9 classes having reveal in their common builds and none of them can perma reveal, they either have to predcit the incoming Mesmer exact to the ms even when they know there is a oneshot Mesmer in the match or they need to perma reveal (what is not possible). Reveal is rly not a crucial thing to this build in its current state and amount. Engi hit is easy to avoid in stealth. I mean you watched his videos or not? How often he got revealed in a for him crucial moment? And hiding a little bit in stealth or disengage to lose focus on him and make his rejoin moment unpredictable with his amount of stealth will not throw any match.

    No clue why you mention this Mirage build, it doesn't rely on stealth (only has 3 secs stealth on 30 sec cd to beginn with), it is also not a oneshot build and it is played by several Mesmers in Top 50 in EU and NA with few variations. And from my own experience it is way harder to play than Chaosline Core because of the stuff i mentioned already:

    1. it can bait out defensive cds way easier without even the need of actively outplaying the opponent (even when the opponent already knows a stealthspam oneshot Mesmer is near) by simple long duration stealth uptime and -amount (only possible with Chaosline) and that vs 7 out of 9 classes without any restriction and vs 2 classes with little restriction of one reveal as counter (max 2 when the fight is very long). With other words Chaosline makes it more unpredictable and for that way easier to hit an otherwise easy to counter oneshot combo. For me it feels everyhting that can be countered in any way is useless in your eyes...
    2. only Chaosline/ Mass Invis gives the ability to completely attack and oneshot out of nowhere. No other Mesmer build can stack stealth completely out of ear shot and visible range, makes even reveal skills useless in these situations
    3. passive sustain from Chaosline makes this build pretty forgiving to play compared to Mesmerbuilds without it (no matter what spec), it is a "not full glass" build with "full glass" dmg
    4. even with one defensive traitline this build still has more dmg than a pure glass Powermirage (Anet always was bad in balancing the sustain-dmg relation, same problem with all the other bruiser builds can passively facetank for ages and still have tons of dmg, example Holo).
    5. Yes it has less mobility (remember when you argued with me that core now has very good mobility thanks to superspeed? During i told you that Sword-Mirage still has bit better mobility with lower costs in cds? Means now you switch your argumentation 180 degree and disagree with yourself) but that is only a point about usefulness in conquest not about how much it will carry the player. Just like the countless guy with his useless inspiration signet invuln-spam build: shadowpass switched teamcarry (mobility) for personal carry. Even though shadowpass build is sure more useful in conquest than the countless build.
    6. It doesn't matter how much something is used, it simply says nothing about how op or easy to use something is. PU always was an unhealthy and low skill ceiling mechanic should not exist at all and most defensive traitlines in this game no matter what class should be desinged more active and for that with higher skill ceiling right from the start. Also PU is used, as you can see in his videos and he is not the only one. There is a reason why all the Chrono oneshot heroes switched to Core PU instead Zeromis's or Jazz's Powermirage, because this Powermirage build is not a stealthspam oneshotfeast build what needs to outplay opponents much more to hit any combo and is for that way less newbiefriendly. Even Mantra Oneshot Mirage is harder to play because it neither has the passive sustain from Chaosline nor the stupidly high duration/ amount of stealth from PU to make easy to counter oneshotcombos less predictable so even low skilled noobs can get a oneshot here and there.

    Well I will explain it better : it's more efficient to put pressure from clone ambush and can load high burst like in powermirage than to hide in stealth (during this time opponent can regen/prepare/decap/run away) to only land bursts.

    Now chaos line is not a passive traitline but the only traitline left who is gameplay defining. I mean choose domination or duel you will always play the same way.
    Choose chaos, you can play with a double chaos storm for in point figthing or with superspeed on manipulation for better mobility.
    You can choose between condiclear or better protection uptime with comboing ether field.
    And finally, you can choose between stealth or better vigor uptime(+other boon on shatter.).
    That's why I will not let you destroy the only traitline left who allow mesmer to do real choice about the type of play he want. And for that no PU is not op at all.

    I mention mirage because I'm one of the top 50 powermirage left and we I face rev at this level, they clearly know how to bait torch tempo which hurt really hard considering you haven't other way to get out of their focus. Which should hurt way much PU builds.
    About your 2 nd point : again it's harder to oneshot as long as the target is mobile than to pressure by clone ambush.
    3 rd : which passive sustain ? the auto protection/regen proc ? It's far to be passive in the current meta.
    4 : no, glasspowermirage output the same burst combo while having more power uptime, putting more vulnerability stacks and more pressure thanks to clone ambush.
    5 : core with superspeed has good mobility yeah and it's better during fight for kitting whereas powermirage is better to move point to point.
    6 : people always use the easiest way to win. Ofc it matter if we never see someone with it.

    Zeromis's or Jazz's Powermirage, because this Powermirage build is not a stealthspam oneshotfeast build what needs to outplay opponents much more to hit any combo and is for that way less newbiefriendly.

    No, it's a clone ambushspam fiesta which is more efficient IMO, which is far to be less newbiefirendly. I mean come on I play it currently, in which world will I play something not efficient :) .
    One shot mirage didn't exist, it's just a powermirage with more pressure.

    I think we better just agree to disagree again before we spam this thread any longer. But gs clone ambushes do laughable dmg, i never saw a good Powermirage only standing ín range and spam gs ambushes ever. That would be a good way to land in gold. And with domination traitline you easy get maximum stacks of vulnerability already very fast during a fight. Ambsuhes just add aoe to it gives Mirage a better cleave and a bit better sustain dmg and for that more teamfight viablility. It still is way harder to land a oneshot combo (aside from these builds don't even have oneshot dmg because of no dmg traits) you need to bait defensive cds before otherwise every decent player will just evade your gs2 burst and you need to bait it by actively outplaying ppl not by simple stealthuptime. It is not only the minor traits also the passive boon generation during stealth is passive, aside from PU being an unhealthy mechanic in general. Chaosline clearly has a lower skill ceiling than any other traitline, together with Inspiration ofc, and every skilled Mesmer main would tell you that.

    And ofc oneshot mirage exist but compared to the core chaosline build it rly needs Mantra of Pain to oneshot the same builds the core build can oneshot wihtout any mantra used.

    It don't consider 3k aoe damage as laughable dmg. (Who can get up to 6k with mesmer ambush.)
    I didn't agree about your view on chaosline and will post everytime you ask for nerf for my last post reasons.
    Inspiration is a dead trailine since last post phantasm rework nerf.
    Let's agree to disagree.

    every skilled Mesmer main would tell you that.

    Which can be counted on a half hand btw.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Which can be counted on a half hand btw.

    True but that doesn't change anything of what i said^^

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So uh, what were the results?

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Thief is my obsession.

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