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(video) Build templates, and why the design is horrible in it's current state.


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@"Dami.5046" said:Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E_SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.Oh and another thing, you don't need to use them it's a QOL thing. We did quite well for 7 odd years. NO one is forcing you to use them or buy anymore.Much ado about nothing.Again.

They are taking away my option (arc) and give me something thats not only inferior, but also something i have to pay for if i want to use it properly.You dont get enough free storage for one build on every class, let alone the Elite specialization.The system just screams: "Gib moneys"

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@Taygus.4571 said:People wanted to pay a fair once off price...not have templates character bound and limited to 6.

Ah then a lesson to be learnt. Maybe people should of been a bit more forthcoming with saying ' I want Build templates' and not giving a detailed account on how they would what these implemented, cost etc.

@Linken.6345 said:

Maybe the ones wanting to pay for it and the ones now chucking it back in their faces are not the same people?

Your guess is as good as mine. Not seeing many folk agreeing with it, mind.

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@"Dami.5046" said:Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E_SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.Oh and another thing, you don't need to use them it's a QOL thing. We did quite well for 7 odd years. NO one is forcing you to use them or buy anymore.Much ado about nothing.Again.

They are taking away my option (arc) and give me something thats not only inferior, but also something i have to pay for if i want to use it properly.You dont get enough free storage for one build on every class, let alone the Elite specialization.The system just screams: "Gib moneys"

How do you think the game is supported? Dust?personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

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@Dami.5046 said:How do you think the game is supported? Dust?personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

If the game needs money so badly, that they have to monetize a feature that should have been part of the game since launch, it shouldnt be supported anyway. At least in my opinion.I think the game is running quite good with the current gemstore. Sales are consistent according to NCSoft.

People used a third party program because anet was either incapable or didnt want to provide templates.

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@"Dami.5046" said:Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E_SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.Oh and another thing, you don't need to use them it's a QOL thing. We did quite well for 7 odd years. NO one is forcing you to use them or buy anymore.Much ado about nothing.Again.

They are taking away my option (arc) and give me something thats not only inferior, but also something i have to pay for if i want to use it properly.You dont get enough free storage for one build on every class, let alone the Elite specialization.The system just screams: "Gib moneys"

And again someone who can't read and relys on 3rd party information that also didn't understand how the system works to complain about things.

You get 3 builds and 2 equipment tabs per character for free(max 6 per character, both of them). And also 3 (+3 for a month after release, max 24) account wide builds. Character builds do not occupy space in the account storage and vice versa.Also equipment and traits are seperated unlike Arc which has both in one template. So having 20+ builds in arc actually means nothing in the new system. It could also translate into 3-4 equipment and 4-5 trait builds. Which is easily doable in the new system.

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@Miellyn.6847 said:And again someone who can't read and relys on 3rd party information that also didn't understand how the system works to complain about things.

You get 3 builds and 2 equipment tabs per character. And also 3 (+3 for a month after release) account wide builds. Character builds do not occupy space in the account storage and vice versa.Also equipment and traits are seperated unlike Arc which has both in one template. So having 20+ builds in arc actually means nothing in the new system. It could also translate into 3-4 equipment and 4-5 trait builds. Which is easily doable in the new system.

I like that you call me out on relying on 3rd party information when you obviously dont know how things work as well. You are able to load equipment and traits separately in arc. Build Templates also arent the Problem. I have 3 buildtemplates and can get 3 more for free for a limited time. Build templates arent the issue tho. You can easily copy them into a txt file and load them that way.The problem are the equipment templates. You only have 2 per character, none for free and you cant share them with a link.So what do you do as a Ranger? Druid, Power Soulbeast and Condi Soulbeast.Or Revenant? Heal, Alacrigade and Condi.Thats already 3 different equipment templates needed.

That might not be that much of an issue if you dont have legendary gear. You can just keep the stuff in your inventory and swap it rather quickly.If you do however have legendary gear, its takes ages because the UI is garbage.

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@Maikimaik.1974 said:

@Dami.5046 said:How do you think the game is supported? Dust?

Expansions, skins, LW episodes.

personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

luckily it's not on you to decide what other players should be allowed to use.

Yes it's really lucky I don't have a say or there wouldn't be DPS meters here as well.

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:And again someone who can't read and relys on 3rd party information that also didn't understand how the system works to complain about things.

You get 3 builds and 2 equipment tabs per character. And also 3 (+3 for a month after release) account wide builds. Character builds do not occupy space in the account storage and vice versa.Also equipment and traits are seperated unlike Arc which has both in one template. So having 20+ builds in arc actually means nothing in the new system. It could also translate into 3-4 equipment and 4-5 trait builds. Which is easily doable in the new system.

I like that you call me out on relying on 3rd party information when you obviously dont know how things work as well. You are able to load equipment and traits separately in arc. Build Templates also arent the Problem. I have 3 buildtemplates and can get 3 more for free for a limited time. Build templates arent the issue tho. You can easily copy them into a txt file and load them that way.Character builds and account wide build storage are still not the same thing.The problem are the equipment templates. You only have 2 per character, none for free and you cant share them with a link.So what do you do as a Ranger? Druid, Power Soulbeast and Condi Soulbeast.Or Revenant? Heal, Alacrigade and Condi.Thats already 3 different equipment templates needed.

It's actually funny that you picked the two classes where Arc is the least useful as it can't handle pets and legends. I play both of them and I'm fine switching it manually between 3 sets on each character. Having no dublicate skins between the armor sets massively helps.

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@Nick.5276 said:The code for the build template system was already there from GW1,

I thought that this was the funniest thing I've read yet in one of these complaint threads until I saw:

GW2 does not need to make money to continue to be in business. As long as the balance sheet balances, they are good to go. New features don't even need new money, just move the focus of features around on the schedule. Clear plans, forecasts and asset allocation are essential for good work practice, but I shouldn't have to remind them of that.

I mean, come on guys. There are legitimate concerns to voice and then there is... this.

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@Miellyn.6847 said:Character builds and account wide build storage are still not the same thing.

So? What if i dont want account wide storage? Do i have to wait another 7 years?

It's actually funny that you picked the two classes where Arc is the least useful as it can't handle pets and legends. I play both of them and I'm fine switching it manually between 3 sets on each character. Having no dublicate skins between the armor sets massively helps.

I admit, its nice that anets templates can swap pets and legends. However thats not that big of a deal.Did you even read further than that? I wrote that swapping armor isnt that much of an issue unless you have something legendary.

Ascended Trinkets are another issue though. The raid trinkets look exactly the same but can have different stats. Thats already super annoying to swap.

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While I can agree that Nick takes it to the extreme with the whole "y'all don't need more money yo" thing, I don't like the future of the game if every feature is going to be monetized like that. It reminds me of BDO and how bad it is when a game is more business than game. There's already so much that is exclusive to the cash shop, do we really need more?

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@"Bobzitto.8571" said:While I can agree that Nick takes it to the extreme with the whole "y'all don't need more money yo" thing, I don't like the future of the game if every feature is going to be monetized like that. It reminds me of BDO and how bad it is when a game is more business than game. There's already so much that is exclusive to the cash shop, do we really need more?

Monetizing convenience has been the direction of this game since launch. Nothing about this is new, including the forum uproar.

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@Dami.5046 said:

@Dami.5046 said:Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E_SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.Oh and another thing, you don't need to use them it's a QOL thing. We did quite well for 7 odd years. NO one is forcing you to use them or buy anymore.Much ado about nothing.Again.

They are taking away my option (arc) and give me something thats not only inferior, but also something i have to pay for if i want to use it properly.You dont get enough free storage for one build on every class, let alone the Elite specialization.The system just screams: "Gib moneys"

How do you think the game is supported? Dust?personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

I am surprised their lawyers ever allowed them to let players use a 3rd party program. I would imagine they had to make sure and say Arenanet was not responsible for any loss or damage to the account?

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@"Bobzitto.8571" said:While I can agree that Nick takes it to the extreme with the whole "y'all don't need more money yo" thing, I don't like the future of the game if every feature is going to be monetized like that. It reminds me of BDO and how bad it is when a game is more business than game. There's already so much that is exclusive to the cash shop, do we really need more?

Lets implant the WoW version then .Yoiu start with a single baseline talent tree sheetYou have to pay extra with gold for another sheet (1000 gold)(doing Mithic Dungeons awarded you with 12 gold, i dont know in 99/100 Fractals how many gold you get here as comparison)If you want to ''reset'' a single talent tree , you pay 1gold>next time , 10> 100 gold and it stays there.After not .touching it/reseting for 1 month it drops in 50 gold and keep lowering for every 15 days afterwards(havent played after Panderia)

(edit: personality i wont pay money or even buy it with gold . But any goldsink mechanic to try to keep steady the gold/gem conversion is very welcomed .We dont want to become like china in the first when HoT was launched (1000 gold for 100 gems)I need more flower costumes to buy with gold instead:P

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I don't understand 2 things

  1. Why would I ever pay for more template slots? I can simply export my build on a txt and have an infinite amount (sure, I can reach the limit of 1 copypaste per hour, but still I don't go around swapping among 300 builds every minute)
  2. Why did I make a legendary armor? It's way more convenient to have multiple ascended sets, you get more slot advantage and also different skins.

Legendary armors should be able to swap skin. Transmutation charges are a funny currency, I have like 300+ unused, and I waste a lot of them. Just make them included in legendary gear.

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@Tukaram.8256 said:

@Dami.5046 said:Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E_SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.Oh and another thing, you don't need to use them it's a QOL thing. We did quite well for 7 odd years. NO one is forcing you to use them or buy anymore.Much ado about nothing.Again.

They are taking away my option (arc) and give me something thats not only inferior, but also something i have to pay for if i want to use it properly.You dont get enough free storage for one build on every class, let alone the Elite specialization.The system just screams: "Gib moneys"

How do you think the game is supported? Dust?personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

I am surprised their lawyers ever allowed them to let players use a 3rd party program. I would imagine they had to make sure and say Arenanet was not responsible for any loss or damage to the account?

@Dami.5046 said:Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E_SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.Oh and another thing, you don't need to use them it's a QOL thing. We did quite well for 7 odd years. NO one is forcing you to use them or buy anymore.Much ado about nothing.Again.

They are taking away my option (arc) and give me something thats not only inferior, but also something i have to pay for if i want to use it properly.You dont get enough free storage for one build on every class, let alone the Elite specialization.The system just screams: "Gib moneys"

How do you think the game is supported? Dust?personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

I am surprised their lawyers ever allowed them to let players use a 3rd party program. I would imagine they had to make sure and say Arenanet was not responsible for any loss or damage to the account?

sarcasm?

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@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:And again someone who can't read and relys on 3rd party information that also didn't understand how the system works to complain about things.

You get 3 builds and 2 equipment tabs per character. And also 3 (+3 for a month after release) account wide builds. Character builds do not occupy space in the account storage and vice versa.Also equipment and traits are seperated unlike Arc which has both in one template. So having 20+ builds in arc actually means nothing in the new system. It could also translate into 3-4 equipment and 4-5 trait builds. Which is easily doable in the new system.

I like that you call me out on relying on 3rd party information when you obviously dont know how things work as well. You are able to load equipment and traits separately in arc. Build Templates also arent the Problem. I have 3 buildtemplates and can get 3 more for free for a limited time. Build templates arent the issue tho. You can easily copy them into a txt file and load them that way.Character builds and account wide build storage are still not the same thing.The problem are the equipment templates. You only have 2 per character, none for free and you cant share them with a link.So what do you do as a Ranger? Druid, Power Soulbeast and Condi Soulbeast.Or Revenant? Heal, Alacrigade and Condi.Thats already 3 different equipment templates needed.

It's actually funny that you picked the two classes where Arc is the least useful as it can't handle pets and legends. I play both of them and I'm fine switching it manually between 3 sets on each character. Having no dublicate skins between the armor sets massively helps.

Miellyn, you are long enough into the game, forums and GW2 scene + actually should have the competence to notice that their system is inferior compared to ArcDPS as a whole and especially regarding the equipment "templates" which are loadouts that change themselves once you change an equipment piece. I don't know what to say about people who can actually support this heavy flaw in their system. 2 years of development for that? They cannot be serious about that.

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@"Kidel.2057" said:I don't understand 2 things

  1. Why would I ever pay for more template slots? I can simply export my build on a txt and have an infinite amount (sure, I can reach the limit of 1 copypaste per hour, but still I don't go around swapping among 300 builds every minute)

Wait. There’s a timegate on how often you can copy/paste builds?

  1. Why did I make a legendary armor? It's way more convenient to have multiple ascended sets, you get more slot advantage and also different skins.

As far as I’m aware, you cannot have two equipment templates that utilize different sigils/runes using the same equipment piece for ascended tier equipment. That feature is only available for legendary tier. So if you want to swap between one ascended armor having one rune, and it using another, you need two ascended armor sets.

As for ascended armor sets, having multiple has always been quicker and cheaper. You only save on inventory space with legendary armor.

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@Miellyn.6847 said:

And again someone who can't read and relys on 3rd party information that also didn't understand how the system works to complain about things.

You get 3 builds and 2 equipment tabs per character for free(max 6 per character, both of them). And also 3 (+3 for a month after release, max 24) account wide builds. Character builds do not occupy space in the account storage and vice versa.Also equipment and traits are seperated unlike Arc which has both in one template. So having 20+ builds in arc actually means nothing in the new system. It could also translate into 3-4 equipment and 4-5 trait builds. Which is easily doable in the new system.

Let's be clear here,

ArenaNet has NOT commented on wether the ''free'' +3 build templates, is something that will apply to ALL characters on your account, and judging from previous QoL monetization from them, it wont, wich means if you got one of each character, youll have 8 characters with 3 slots, and 1 with 6.

ArenaNet has PURPOSEFULLY been vague about the prices of the build templates, if you actually knew anything about monetization and gaming, you'd know for a fact, that they iron out costs as they develop the system, so they've known WHAT BALL PARK, they were looking at, for 2 years, and are still not saying anything. thats 95% because they know it aint consumer friendly, and it aint something we'd accept.

ArenaNet was never Asked for a Gear slot solution, they were asked for Templates, and just templates.

some people have well over 40 builds for one character, all of them with a purpose, and all of them PvE related, meaning that doesnt account for their pvp, and WvW setups. when you blindly defend arenanets decision to milk this like theres no tomorrow, you shit on them, so why dont you try being alittle objective for the first time in your life on these forums. and ask yourself how you'd feel, if they were putting YOU in this spot.

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@Dami.5046 said:I think you will find the original Guildwars templates that some of you keep harping on about were less complicated for one - skills only no armour or weapons - a code you just saved to a file.These took much longer to develop and are not only skills right? They change everything from skills to armour to weapon and more.You can't say you want some thing and even pay for it then complain when anet listens that you have to pay for it.

GW1 had gear template as well. The template feature in gw1 is complete. Nothing is missing, gear, skills, attributes, even for heroes and you can share the template to another person simply by sending the file or just the template string with a copy paste. It's simple, ergonomic and doesn't takes much resources.

The only reason they made it overcomplicated in gw2 was to justify the price. We didn't ask for it like that, this isn't what people had in mind when they thought of a template feature.I would have been fine with a one off price, like 800 gems for single limit of 100 builds per char. Seriously, a buy or not should be enough. If they need my money they make an expansion, I'll happy paid 60€ for more content.

But really that feature should have been core, especially since it was free in GW1.

And by the way for all the additional bank storage being for sale arguments. Guys, GW1 had bank storage for sale too, but they still gave us the template feature for free. They really should stick with skins, that stuff generates money, give us the features for free, we'll buy your skins.

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@Dami.5046 said:

@Dami.5046 said:How do you think the game is supported? Dust?

Expansions, skins, LW episodes.

personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

luckily it's not on you to decide what other players should be allowed to use.

Yes it's really lucky I don't have a say or there wouldn't be DPS meters here as well.

No matter if the dps meter is there or not, if someone is doing low damage and the rest of the group has to literally piggyback them they are still getting kicked. You can't hide that. So sure, take it away, but that doesn't stop players from kicking others that waste time.

Literally a fruitless effort.

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:And again someone who can't read and relys on 3rd party information that also didn't understand how the system works to complain about things.

You get 3 builds and 2 equipment tabs per character. And also 3 (+3 for a month after release) account wide builds. Character builds do not occupy space in the account storage and vice versa.Also equipment and traits are seperated unlike Arc which has both in one template. So having 20+ builds in arc actually means nothing in the new system. It could also translate into 3-4 equipment and 4-5 trait builds. Which is easily doable in the new system.

I like that you call me out on relying on 3rd party information when you obviously dont know how things work as well. You are able to load equipment and traits separately in arc. Build Templates also arent the Problem. I have 3 buildtemplates and can get 3 more for free for a limited time. Build templates arent the issue tho. You can easily copy them into a txt file and load them that way.The problem are the equipment templates. You only have 2 per character, none for free and you cant share them with a link.So what do you do as a Ranger? Druid, Power Soulbeast and Condi Soulbeast.Or Revenant? Heal, Alacrigade and Condi.Thats already 3 different equipment templates needed.

That might not be that much of an issue if you dont have legendary gear. You can just keep the stuff in your inventory and swap it rather quickly.If you do however have legendary gear, its takes ages because the UI is garbage.

And furthermore what do you do with support chrono which reqire 10 geartemplates minimum (mine has 31)

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