Thoughts/Hopes/Ideas about Engineer's rework on Pistols, Turrets and Kits — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Thoughts/Hopes/Ideas about Engineer's rework on Pistols, Turrets and Kits

Doutrinador.6285Doutrinador.6285 Member ✭✭
edited September 13, 2019 in Engineer

I think a pistol rework is needed for sure, for me the off hand pistol is reasonable but it can be polished, I would like to see really concrete changes in the main hand pistol. As a condition weapon or power weapon has no potential like they are now, they should focus either on condition only or power only (my preference is power, and improve the holosmith sword with a little more bleeding and also burning) on ​​main hand or so making a hybrid weapon that really works, including a better cast time cause pistol is a one handed weapon but is currently slow as a two handed weapon. Core engineer has just a few weapon options, we don't have weapon swap, and kits that should be additional weapon options don't work properly.

Another very requested and important change that the engineer needs is surely in the turrets, there are good ideas being discussed about them in other threads, devs just have to make minor balance adjustments and work on them to make it happen.

In my opinion we also need to improve the grenade kit, bomb kit and mortar kit by making them more interesting and useful, such as the flamethrower, elixir gun and toolkit style, when you have physical/condition damage associated with useful combat utilities like pull, block, knock back, fields, finishers, jumps and so on, maybe ammo system on bombs or one cast with 2-3 chain explosions (such as pulses, slightly increasing the cooldown), delayed-explosion grenades that attach onto targets hit (like the underwater weapon skill Timed Charge with a medium aoe radius explosion) and mortar with homing projectiles (like underwater weapon auto-attack Homing Torpedo, large aoe radius explosion as well) plus minor side effects on those kits (changes only aplied to skills 2-5). Some changes in that direction would make these two kits more interesting to use. Currently they look like you pushing buttons 2-5 to apply different conditions, such as stronger auto-attacks with longer cooldowns.

I hope developers see all user feedback and bring back the good old feeling to engineer (yeah like they are presented on wiki to new players), making it relevant and fun again not just for one elite spec, but for its essence.

Comments

  • @Vagrant.7206 said:
    There's really 4 turrets that need examination:

    • Rocket Turret's normal attack is pretty flimsy, and its overcharge has such an insane arc, you might as well fuhgeddaboutit. The toolbelt is even worse.
    • Net turret is simply underwhelming. Same goes for the toolbelt.
    • Flame turret should add a longer burn, or more burn stacks. The toolbelt is alright.
    • Rifle turret does laughable damage (overcharged or not). It's almost exclusively taken for its toolbelt or an extra blast finisher.

    I'm not even going to get into kits because that would take me way too much time.

    Healing turret is good and should continue as it is, and the medkit has already been reworked. I think the Supply Crate could be changed and look more like the old stationary mortar, much like a mini siege weapon (with reduced damage, of course) and any ally could use, would work better with the theory of turrets being used for area control. When dropped it would continue as it is, or replace enemy stun with launch. The mortar in the kit line could be something like the elementalist's Conjure Weapon skills, casting 2 or 3 random kits for allies. Both the manual turret and the kits would be temporary and would have tactical utility in many situations.

  • Matoro.9708Matoro.9708 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    I agree with all these changes. I would be happy to see even nerfs to the damage of 1 corresponding to the attack speed because at least then you're more likely to get a hit off. It feels slower than rev hammer. 2 as well, it being body blocked by stuff severely reduces your cleave potential. Seeing as we already have some pretty good (shameless self plug) threads about kits and turrets, assuming all we'll ever see are numbers changes and not an elite gadget or whatever, I don't have much else to say. I just wish taking gadgeteer felt like it had as much impact as taking HGH does for Elixir X, you know?

    Also, recently I've been playing a lot of core content, and my turret/gadget build actually feels pretty fresh again since I can kill stuff. Just goes to show how much numbers can affect someone's experience.

    Society either needs a turret rework or to free bobby schmurda and I wonder which comes first?

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    I can definitely talk about the Net Turret. I've used it a long time ago when Cleaning Formula 409 + HGH elixir based condition builds were all the rage, and instead went for Slick Shoes/Tool Kit/Net Turret. Back then, an immobilize being thrown periodically was a rather big deal, so two of them, by counting the Supply Crate made most of fights a breeze. Now that kind of stuff doesn't mean much anymore by itself, even more so when everyone farts AOEs and accidently kill the turrets.

    I'd ideally like turrets like the Net one to remain how it is and have this whole power creep toned down to have small things like this turret matter again. But that's wishful thinking. Oh, and I've never really understood why the Rocket Turret was changed from the release design.

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @Matoro.9708 said:
    I agree with all these changes. I would be happy to see even nerfs to the damage of 1 corresponding to the attack speed because at least then you're more likely to get a hit off. It feels slower than rev hammer. 2 as well, it being body blocked by stuff severely reduces your cleave potential. Seeing as we already have some pretty good (shameless self plug) threads about kits and turrets, assuming all we'll ever see are numbers changes and not an elite gadget or whatever, I don't have much else to say. I just wish taking gadgeteer felt like it had as much impact as taking HGH does for Elixir X, you know?

    Also, recently I've been playing a lot of core content, and my turret/gadget build actually feels pretty fresh again since I can kill stuff. Just goes to show how much numbers can affect someone's experience.

    Pistol 1 has one of the lowest power coefficients of any autoattacks in the game (0.4). Only one that's lower is necro scepter, which has way more utility in its autoattack. No need to nerf it further just to meet its stated cast time.


    As far as kits go:

    • Med kit is fine after rework. No complaints.
    • Tool kit's #2 skill needs to be change to have more utility. I would suggest increasing the radius, duration, and duration of bleeds/cripples of the attack. Rest of the skills are fine.
    • Bomb kit needs to have short fuse as a baseline. The delay is too long to be useful in competitive formats.
    • Grenade kit should have the flight speed increase as baseline. I would also suggest adding some kind of resistance to projectile hate/retaliation, because these REALLY hurt grenade kit.
    • E-Gun is mostly fine. I would like to see its #1 and #2 improved though.
    • Flamethrower #1 should have burning interspersed throughout the attack, not at the end. This would make it way more dangerous (and useful) in competitive formats. I also think the #4 skill should destroy projectiles, and the #5 skill should have ammo (2 count seems right).
    • Mortar kit should have have lower flight times. I think it's otherwise in a decent spot.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Matoro.9708Matoro.9708 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Pistol 1 has one of the lowest power coefficients of any autoattacks in the game (0.4). Only one that's lower is necro scepter, which has way more utility in its autoattack. No need to nerf it further just to meet its stated cast time.

    Haha I know man I'm just bargaining/begging/pleading ;-;

    As for the OP.
    In general, a lot of core stuff just comes out slower, clunkier, more telegraphed, and less impactful (read: loaded) than modern skills they've made. Whether or not this is fixed, I consistently find myself wishing for something else: I wish I could slot any kit I wanted in my elite slot, lol. I know Anet will never let utilities mix with elites, but Engineer has a funny problem with a lot of utilities being more useful as an elite than the available elites, depending on the build. Food for thought, maybe something will happen some day. On my current build, flamethrower there would be much nicer than mortar. Bomb kit is more fun than supply crate, and so on. Bleh.

    ArenaNet, please change Turrets.

    Society either needs a turret rework or to free bobby schmurda and I wonder which comes first?

  • Tulki.1458Tulki.1458 Member ✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    In my mind, engineer needs three major changes.
    1) Another power off-hand option, maybe a mace. It's silly that Holosmith only has a main-hand power weapon, when you look at something like Spellbreaker which launched with both main and off-hand dagger skills. If you want to use the spec's weapon (which is power-based) you have to settle for a condi off-hand or a defensive off-hand even though the spec is obviously fully offensive.

    2) Elixirs need to be reworked as less of a selfish option, and more of a supportive option so that an engineer can provide better boons for allies. Holosmith can already provide selfish might generation with the forge, making HGH kinda... not great, and it doesn't allow you to provide competitive might to allies through throwing elixirs anyway.

    3) Complete turret rework. Just tear them out completely and replace them with a different type of skill. The last time they were seriously changed was prior to HoT, and it was to massively nerf them into unusability. They don't fit in the game any more.

    Maybe replace turrets with "mecha-signets"? While off cooldown, the engineer can passively fire off turret shots under specific conditions. Activating a mecha signet places a supportive beacon that periodically loads nearby allies with a turret charge.

    For example:
    [Mecha Signet] Rifle Signet.
    Passive: Load a rifle charge every 3s. On critical hit, unleash a piercing round and consume the charge.
    Active: Deploy a Rifle Beacon that loads a Rifle Charge into nearby allies immediately, and once again every 6s.
    Max Charges: 2
    Max Allied Charges: 1
    Duration: 12s
    Cooldown: 24s
    Max allied targets: 5

    [Mecha Signet] Medical Signet.
    Passive: Load a med charge every 5s. When you perform a combo finisher, heal yourself and consume the charge.
    Active: Deploy a Medical Beacon that loads a med charge into nearby allies immediately, and once again every 10s.
    Max Charges: 2
    Max Allied Charges: 1
    Duration: 20s
    Cooldown: 40s

    [Mecha Signet] Thumper Signet.
    Passive: Load a thumper charge every 10s. When you target an enemy with a blowout, knockback, pull or stun, release an aftershock that damages and dazes nearby enemies (PvP split: cripples instead of inflicting knockback)
    Active: Deploy a Thumper Beacon that loads a thumper charge into nearby allies immediately, and once again every 20s.
    Max Charges: 2
    Max Allied Charges: 1
    Duration: 40s
    Cooldown: 80s

  • Turrets don't make sense because they don't scale with stats (except Flame Turret), they don't gain boons but do gain conditions, they do not body-block projectiles, and they have larger than normal hitboxes. And ArenaNet will not make them useful because people can use them to afk farm.

  • @Tulki.1458 said:
    Turrets don't make sense because they don't scale with stats (except Flame Turret), they don't gain boons but do gain conditions, they do not body-block projectiles, and they have larger than normal hitboxes. And ArenaNet will not make them useful because people can use them to afk farm.

    Think of "engineering" and then machines or structures or devices come to mind, for me the turrets line is the coolest thing about the engineer (as a machinist). No one is stupid, it's not the player's fault to see realistic opportunities to get gold and farm with their turrets because they are using their utilities as they are supposed to work, in spawns supposedly working properly... if it's someone else's fault it's the Anet for not having developed mechanisms that would prevent supposed afk farm practices, and as far as I am concerned there is no clause in the contract term that prohibits the player from leaving his game open and moving away either for 15 secs or 5 min (average turret life time, a long time to be away according to anet).
    If you don't want to see this practice build another mechanism because it seems ridiculous to render to useless a whole profession line of skills so relevant for the sake of your earnings (+gold to gem, -$$,$$ to gem) or the ingame economy.

  • I never practiced afk farm and today i have all the ingame items i really would like to have, just playing for almost 3 years and farming traditionally. When i discovered the old Lake Doric engi farm on LFG (a couple days before the big nerf) i actually found it funny (a lil because the turrets were already a kitten lol) and not a crime that players are legit making more or less gold in a different way than me.

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭

    Turrets with ammo system, and the overcharge buffs your auto attacks and destroys your turrets
    Done engi is now good

  • Matoro.9708Matoro.9708 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tulki.1458 said:
    Turrets don't make sense because they don't scale with stats (except Flame Turret), they don't gain boons but do gain conditions, they do not body-block projectiles, and they have larger than normal hitboxes. And ArenaNet will not make them useful because people can use them to afk farm.

    Admittedly I made an entire post in excruciating detail how to address all of these issues and rework them. Nothing in it is impossible to implement. The ball is in Anet's court.

    Society either needs a turret rework or to free bobby schmurda and I wonder which comes first?

  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Matoro.9708 said:
    I agree with all these changes. I would be happy to see even nerfs to the damage of 1 corresponding to the attack speed because at least then you're more likely to get a hit off. It feels slower than rev hammer. 2 as well, it being body blocked by stuff severely reduces your cleave potential. Seeing as we already have some pretty good (shameless self plug) threads about kits and turrets, assuming all we'll ever see are numbers changes and not an elite gadget or whatever, I don't have much else to say. I just wish taking gadgeteer felt like it had as much impact as taking HGH does for Elixir X, you know?

    Also, recently I've been playing a lot of core content, and my turret/gadget build actually feels pretty fresh again since I can kill stuff. Just goes to show how much numbers can affect someone's experience.

    Pistol 1 has one of the lowest power coefficients of any autoattacks in the game (0.4). Only one that's lower is necro scepter, which has way more utility in its autoattack. No need to nerf it further just to meet its stated cast time.


    As far as kits go:

    • Med kit is fine after rework. No complaints.
    • Tool kit's #2 skill needs to be change to have more utility. I would suggest increasing the radius, duration, and duration of bleeds/cripples of the attack. Rest of the skills are fine.

    You forgot about the auto attack. The tool kit is the closest thing core engineer gets to a blunt melee weapon and it's incredibly lackluster. I would recommend reducing the cast time to be the same as the scrapper's hammer and replace the cripple with confusion. Box of Nails already applies cripple in a radius, so why would you have the auto attack also apply cripple?

    • Bomb kit needs to have short fuse as a baseline. The delay is too long to be useful in competitive formats.

    Not just in competitive formats, but in PvE as well. It takes 1 second for bombs to go off, but also an additional half a second to plant them so it takes longer for you to deal damage with them. Making Short Fuse baseline is a step in the right direction, keep the fury boon and replace the delay with an increased explosion radius and 20% cooldown reduction on bomb skills, similar to the Forceful Explosives trait.

    • Grenade kit should have the flight speed increase as baseline. I would also suggest adding some kind of resistance to projectile hate/retaliation, because these REALLY hurt grenade kit.

    I think retaliation should be reworked as a whole. I understand it when it comes to melee attacks, but ranged attacks? It doesn't make sense how ranged attacks, especially ground targeted skills like grenades manage to damage you from far away. Yes, I agree the throw velocity and explosion radius should be baseline, so replace those with 20% cooldown reduction on grenade skills and increase the throw range from 900 back to 1,200 similar to the old Grenadier.

    • E-Gun is mostly fine. I would like to see its #1 and #2 improved though.

    Me too. Tranquilizer Dart should have the same cast time as the hopefully future Fragmentation Shot cast time buff. Glob Shot should apply swiftness to allies if you hit your target, not just if you use it within 400 range and apply it to 3 allies which is not mentioned in the tooltip at all.

    • Flamethrower #1 should have burning interspersed throughout the attack, not at the end. This would make it way more dangerous (and useful) in competitive formats. I also think the #4 skill should destroy projectiles, and the #5 skill should have ammo (2 count seems right).

    Napalm should be changed into a radius instead of a rectangular wall of fire. As for Smoke Vent, I think it would be nice to bring back Backdraft so core engineer can have a little bit more CC than just Air Blast and Big Ol' Bomb. As for the auto attack, it would be great if it applied burning per tick instead of at the end of the auto attack. But one thing you forgot is retaliation. Similar to the the grenade kit, retaliation can hurt the kit as well since it attacks multiple times.

    Karras

  • First, turret hit boxes should be scaled down.

    Secondly, each turret should apply a static stat bonus, like warrior banners. (+25 to all stats, including expertise and concentration.) then allow them to be picked back up to reduce the cool down.

    Third... When you deploy a turret, your toolbelt skill should flip to an ammo version of the turrets overcharge. (which should be upgraded, so you don't miss your non-deployed skill while you have the turret out.) traits in the tools trait line effect the toolbelt overcharge skills. Destroying a turret that is 'out of ammo' produces a weak explosion, but applies might and a Boon that makes sense for the type of turret. (not the same Boon applied by the turret trait) Destroying a turret with ammo in it, produces a large explosion, doing more damage, more stacks of burn and bleed, dependant on how much ammo is remaining, and not producing might, or the additional Boon.

    Fourth, They should take 90% reduced damage and condition damage from npc's, and 50% reduced damage and condition damage from players.

    Fifth, They should body block projectiles.

    Sixth, The turrets trait, renamed 'turret network.' should reduce recharge of turret utility, but not toolbelt overcharge. (take tools if you want that) turrets should pulse a Boon on firing. As they do now. Turret explosions always count as being fired at maximum ammunition. Increase the ammo count of turrets by 2.

  • Matoro.9708Matoro.9708 Member ✭✭✭

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    First, turret hit boxes should be scaled down.

    Secondly, each turret should apply a static stat bonus, like warrior banners. (+25 to all stats, including expertise and concentration.) then allow them to be picked back up to reduce the cool down.

    Third... When you deploy a turret, your toolbelt skill should flip to an ammo version of the turrets overcharge. (which should be upgraded, so you don't miss your non-deployed skill while you have the turret out.) traits in the tools trait line effect the toolbelt overcharge skills. Destroying a turret that is 'out of ammo' produces a weak explosion, but applies might and a Boon that makes sense for the type of turret. (not the same Boon applied by the turret trait) Destroying a turret with ammo in it, produces a large explosion, doing more damage, more stacks of burn and bleed, dependant on how much ammo is remaining, and not producing might, or the additional Boon.

    Fourth, They should take 90% reduced damage and condition damage from npc's, and 50% reduced damage and condition damage from players.

    Fifth, They should body block projectiles.

    Sixth, The turrets trait, renamed 'turret network.' should reduce recharge of turret utility, but not toolbelt overcharge. (take tools if you want that) turrets should pulse a Boon on firing. As they do now. Turret explosions always count as being fired at maximum ammunition. Increase the ammo count of turrets by 2.

    Sounds cool, I would be happy if they did something like this.

    Society either needs a turret rework or to free bobby schmurda and I wonder which comes first?

  • Kits should be a profession mechanic on the f-bar. Not taking up a utility slot.

  • XenoSpyro.1780XenoSpyro.1780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2019

    All they have to do to make Turrets mean anything:

    • Permanent overcharge, or auto-overcharge.
    • Shielding trait? Permanent reflect plus -15% to 25% cooldown.
    • Allow crits

    @Zex Anthon.8673 said:
    Kits should be a profession mechanic on the f-bar. Not taking up a utility slot.

    The F bar is the profession mechanic. You get an additional skill for every 6-0 skill you choose. Your idea would require a complete overhaul and would break builds.

  • Zex Anthon.8673Zex Anthon.8673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2019

    @XenoSpyro.1780 said:
    All they have to do to make Turrets mean anything:

    • Permanent overcharge, or auto-overcharge.
    • Shielding trait? Permanent reflect plus -15% to 25% cooldown.
    • Allow crits

    I prefer more active interaction with turrets. I did not like the turret change that made turrets proc overcharge automatically. It dumbs down the ability and restricts gameplay. I also didn't like the old way of removing tool belt skills while the turret is active.

    I think a better way to make turrets more meaningful is to add interactions with other abilities. Maybe blasting a lightning field could cause turrets to overcharge. Perhaps the interaction with tool kit could be improved. Box of nails could be replaced with a lightning field. Overcharge on crowbar?

    Permanent reflect seems a bit too much. And allowing crits won't do much since the turret doesn't scale with stats. Turrets should scale with stats (the same should apply to minions and other summons).

    @XenoSpyro.1780 said:

    @Zex Anthon.8673 said:
    Kits should be a profession mechanic on the f-bar. Not taking up a utility slot.

    The F bar is the profession mechanic. You get an additional skill for every 6-0 skill you choose. Your idea would require a complete overhaul and would break builds.

    That's what we are talking about in this thread. An overhaul. A rework. I may be the minority here, but I find the tool belt mechanic to be extremely boring. I find kits to be far more interesting and better representative of what makes engineer unique.

    With kits on the F bar you could make those interactions between turrets and tool kit without feeling restricted to take tool kit instead of another turret.

    To be clear, I am not suggesting removing all tool belt abilities. I think the utility tool belts should stay, and the healing/elite/kit tool belt skills could be removed or added/combined into other skills and kits. The F bar would look like this: F1-F3 utility tool belts, F4 and F5 are kit slots. When kits are given a fixed number of slots, balancing them becomes much easier because the number of kits you can use no longer ranges between 0 and 5.

  • Now we have some good ideas for turrets..

    Turrets scale with each player status, overcharge pretty much like ranger spirits (increases range and fire rate, medium cooldown) and trait to add boons to allies (10 targets, priority to players, then to allied turrets), and reflective shield enabled along with overcharge.
    Tool kit trait reduce damage dealt to turrets plus reduced skill recharge as well, and tool 1-5 repairs damaged ones in the range of skills.

    Something that I always imagine would be cool, turrets could also be handled by allies, operators would be a bit vulnerable to attacks when rooted operating but in compensation they could use overcharge and reflective shield at shorter intervals. Handled turrets lose hp with frequent overcharges.

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zex Anthon.8673 said:
    That's what we are talking about in this thread. An overhaul. A rework. I may be the minority here, but I find the tool belt mechanic to be extremely boring. I find kits to be far more interesting and better representative of what makes engineer unique.

    With kits on the F bar you could make those interactions between turrets and tool kit without feeling restricted to take tool kit instead of another turret.

    To be clear, I am not suggesting removing all tool belt abilities. I think the utility tool belts should stay, and the healing/elite/kit tool belt skills could be removed or added/combined into other skills and kits. The F bar would look like this: F1-F3 utility tool belts, F4 and F5 are kit slots. When kits are given a fixed number of slots, balancing them becomes much easier because the number of kits you can use no longer ranges between 0 and 5.

    I appreciate the spirit behind this but at a minimum we'd need to make kits not suck via adjusting their lower damage, and overall cludginess/slowness -much of it to do with ground targeting, lack of timely condition application etc- to employ versus other core profession mechanics. Otherwise all you're doing is losing two tool belt slots in order to slot in some outmoded kits so that we're able to slot some more outmoded abilities on the hot bar.

    I love engineer but the whole core profession needs a rebuild. Anything less is just asking for the deck chairs to be shifted around while the ship continues to sink. -Sort of what they're doing to us right now with every one of these dubious balance patches with the marked addition of taking away one of the chairs every now and again for good measure.

  • XenoSpyro.1780XenoSpyro.1780 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zex Anthon.8673 said:
    I prefer more active interaction with turrets.

    Translated as : "I prefer more micromanagement than what we already have."
    The whole point of a turret is that you set it and forget it. Problem is even for that purpose, they are terrible. I don't think they should be so good that people start REEE'ing about 'overpowered bunker meta' again, but right now Turrets = nothing. If you want me to paint a picture for you, untraited Battering ram offers more reliable breakbar damage (even if its a lower value) than Rocket Turret and Thumper combined because both of these turrets have gigantic 40 second cooldowns. Even Flesh Golem has more going for it during it's cooldown. Flame turret and Net turret should just plain not exist. Actual joke skills.

    @Zex Anthon.8673 said:
    (the same should apply to minions and other summons).

    I don't know about this one dude. If you roll minions, this would hard lock you into playing Power to boost their damage. None of the minions cause damaging conditions.

    @Zex Anthon.8673 said:
    When kits are given a fixed number of slots, balancing them becomes much easier because the number of kits you can use no longer ranges between 0 and 5.

    You know what else would balance out kits? Fixing problem skills that are underperforming or flat out useless. That's the problem with kits, is you just use them for ONE good skill then it's over. And on the flip side, going kitless is also bad unless you play Holo. This is moronic.

    Just a few ideas:
    Wrench is way too slow. It's auto chain needs to be faster. Nails animation could use more speed and more radius. All else is fine.
    The med kit was already reworked to usability, so it's fine.
    Flamethrower is a hilariously underpowered weapon that I only use for very fast bleed Might. The only thing keeping it relevant to a fault is that it's the only kit with passives through Juggernaut. Other kits need some form of passives with Jugg just like Streamlined or Backpack Regen.
    I also find it hilarious that a FLAMEthrower is a bit lacking in the fire department (heehee). Call me crazy but I think the auto should include 1 burning stack for 1 second per damage tick instead of waiting for the end of the attack to cause burning. Range is also too low and doesn't match the animation.
    Because of the loss of the walls from Toss U, Flame 4 should destroy projectiles. 5 needs its radius severely increased, or become a smoke field. I've also noticed some hitreg problems with Flame 3 reflect not actually working some of the time.

    I really feel that a complete rework isn't necessary. Just address problem areas. Anet's issue is that they keep nerfing Core because the Elite spec is overperforming. All I want is simply to undo this.

  • In my view, when you say Turrets I imagine this build:
    https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Build:Rt/any_Spirit_Spammer

    so I want something equals to spirits in GW2: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Binding_ritual

  • Aooogah.1673Aooogah.1673 Member ✭✭
    edited October 6, 2019

    I started playing shortly before POF was released, so I don't know of the good old days of turrets, but a lot of the suggested changes I'm seeing here would somewhat overpower core Engi in my eyes. As far as AFK farms, I think the concept of a minionmancer denies Anet any validity in using AFK farms as a reason to nerf turrets. All it would take to make turrets a valid option would be to give them the same incoming damage reduction as other minions, because that's what they are, and to allow them to crit. A boost to the damage coefficients or condition stacks or durations would be welcome, but perhaps not as necessary.

    A rework to shift kits to the F-bar is so far away from what's even possible that it's ridiculous to think about. Seriously, running bombs, grenades, laser disk, throw mine, and battering ram? Or bombs, grenades, rocket boots, flamethrower, and laser disk, for the condition-flavored among us? It's nice to dream but discussions like this should probably sit a little closer to the realistic in order to remain productive.

    As for pistol auto-attack buffs? WE on this thread of all people should know better. If you use the pistol auto more than as a filler as a condition core engineer or condition holosmith, you're doing it wrong. If you're running power core engineer and not using rifle/bombs, you're doing it wrong. Frankly, with holosmith available, if you're even running power core engineer at all, you're living in the past or running a "because it's open world and nobody even cares" build. Pistol auto-attacks are 100% the wrong direction in which to chase buffs to the profession.

    Maces, though...now that I can get behind. I would love to see main- and offhand mace added to core Engineer. Main, because it could provide boons to allies like you can trait the shield to do (specifically might from Mace 1, lots of it, and perhaps a little bit of quickness or additional protection from Mace 2 and 3), and offhand so that it could complement the sword for Holosmith. This would also allow us to use Fixer-Upper as a weapon skin for our maces and confuse ourselves on whether we have our tool kit out or not.

    If I'm being honest, and again this is acknowledging that I never even knew this game existed during their glory days, turrets are better left as a lost cause in favor of seeking maces for the Engineer. If we got a support-oriented mainhand mace, and it offered significant might generation to allies, our class could be viable, like actually viable beyond "I convinced my friends to let me try it out," as a raid healer, or even as a scrapper tank. Our healing through med kit absolutely destroys the healing output of pretty much anything but Druid, and either class can keep a party capped at max health, but Druid provides might and Spotter.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    @Zex Anthon.8673 said:
    Kits should be a profession mechanic on the f-bar. Not taking up a utility slot.

    actually agree with some kits such as elixir gun, mines and scrap kit. Others can stay as utilities. For those 3 removed in utilities, add new skills like glyphs or some new turrets.
    -The turrets should be more powerful like only weak to cc skills or piercing projectiles; they are made of steel and shouldn't break like made of wood. Turrets projectiles from rifle and rocket could be explosives, creating a link with Explosives Minor Master "Steel Packed Powder" unlocking inflicting vulnerabilities. And so Shaped Charge trait.
    -When receiving boons, like through thrown elixirs, turrets should earn them too, or at least receive boons from other turrets if under trait Inventions Major Master "Experimental Turrets.".
    -Making supply crate interesting as elite, prime beam if holo is awesome, stealth gyro is okay let's say as scrapper, but the crate.... at this point it can be replaced with a moving turret inflicting conditions, or as some said in other threads, a laser turrets, electrical field one, shrapnel?

    +++In creative mood. New Engie Elite spec' , Housing , New asuran expansion , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    +++NEW: AEP Asuran Expansion Project available on WIKI.
    +++New: GEM GW2 Exploration Map: Discover unusual places around tyria: Here (OSM map)

  • Zex Anthon.8673Zex Anthon.8673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2019

    @Aooogah.1673 said:

    A rework to shift kits to the F-bar is so far away from what's even possible that it's ridiculous to think about. Seriously, running bombs, grenades, laser disk, throw mine, and battering ram? Or bombs, grenades, rocket boots, flamethrower, and laser disk, for the condition-flavored among us? It's nice to dream but discussions like this should probably sit a little closer to the realistic in order to remain productive.

    I am simply suggesting that kits belong on the F-bar because one of engineer's class mechanic, no weapon swap, exists because of kits. With the current design if you want access to a weapon swap that gives you melee capabilities as core engineer, you must use one of your utility slots. That limits overall build diversity. For example Tool kit synergy with turrets would have more impact if tool kit didn't replace a turret.

    My suggestion would involve removing the healing and elite tool belt slots so that the F-bar looks like this: F1-F3 (Utility tool belts), F4+F5, (Kit Slots). F5 is replaced with elite spec mechanics. The examples you give are not even that ridiculous. I think a change like this would free up some restricting choices with engi build design. I don't think it would make the class overpowered, especially since core engineer is already at a disadvantage due to the lack of a weapon swap.

    Holosmith is actually a perfect example of this change in action. Kits are essentially obsolete with holosmith. Why run a kit and use a utility slot when you have access to a kit that exists separate from the utility bar. Freeing up the build to take more important utilities like elixir s and elixir u.

    You said it yourself:

    @Aooogah.1673 said:
    Frankly, with holosmith available, if you're even running power core engineer at all, you're living in the past or running a "because it's open world and nobody even cares" build.

    Core engineer and scrapper don't have the same inherent benefit that holosmith has with their class design. Therefore holosmith will continue to outperform them unless they completely nerf photon forge into the ground.

  • You said it yourself:

    @Aooogah.1673 said:
    Frankly, with holosmith available, if you're even running power core engineer at all, you're living in the past or running a "because it's open world and nobody even cares" build.

    Context matters: I was rebutting a desire for a buff to the pistol autoattack, and pointing out that you don't use it in condition builds and that you're doing it wrong if you are running power engineer using pistols. Nobody is arguing that core/scrapper have competition with holosmith (in PVE at least)

    Kits are essentially obsolete with holosmith

    It sounds like you don't play condition holosmith which use three kits; also, you use grenade kit fairly extensively running the current sword/pistol meta. Running rifle, you still use bomb kit and grenade kit, and that build while no longer meta is still better than sword/pistol in select fights that are very very short.

    run a kit and use a utility slot when you have access to a kit that exists separate from the utility bar. Freeing up the build to take more important utilities like elixir s and elixir u

    I know that most suggestions focus on suggesting the positive changes rather than including the "negative" changes that would have to be included for balance's sake (such as here if they made the change you are suggesting they might introduce the 9 second weapon swap cooldown to engineer since what you are describing is effectively like an elementalist attunement). Acknowledging that, I still have to say, what you describe sounds extremely overpowered. The "examples I give that aren't even that ridiculous" could increase our DPS by as much as 20% or give us room to be near unkillable while still an offensive threat. We would be completely broken in competitive modes.

    I'm not saying it isn't a balancable concept, but I am saying that at face value it's a ridiculous suggestion because it removes a LOT of tradeoffs and would allow us room to bring our strongest defenses at the same time as our strongest offenses which isn't a fair balance.

  • Zex Anthon.8673Zex Anthon.8673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2019

    @Aooogah.1673 said:

    You said it yourself:

    @Aooogah.1673 said:
    Frankly, with holosmith available, if you're even running power core engineer at all, you're living in the past or running a "because it's open world and nobody even cares" build.

    Context matters: I was rebutting a desire for a buff to the pistol autoattack, and pointing out that you don't use it in condition builds and that you're doing it wrong if you are running power engineer using pistols. Nobody is arguing that core/scrapper have competition with holosmith (in PVE at least)

    Even with context your statement still implies that holosmith is naturally better than core power engineer. The statement doesn't refer to your previous comment about pistols, and has the same meaning without previous context. Which is why I pulled it out.

    Frankly, with holosmith available, if you're even running power core engineer at all, you're living in the past or running a "because it's open world and nobody even cares" build.

    .

    Kits are essentially obsolete with holosmith

    It sounds like you don't play condition holosmith which use three kits; also, you use grenade kit fairly extensively running the current sword/pistol meta. Running rifle, you still use bomb kit and grenade kit, and that build while no longer meta is still better than sword/pistol in select fights that are very very short.

    run a kit and use a utility slot when you have access to a kit that exists separate from the utility bar. Freeing up the build to take more important utilities like elixir s and elixir u

    I know that most suggestions focus on suggesting the positive changes rather than including the "negative" changes that would have to be included for balance's sake (such as here if they made the change you are suggesting they might introduce the 9 second weapon swap cooldown to engineer since what you are describing is effectively like an elementalist attunement). Acknowledging that, I still have to say, what you describe sounds extremely overpowered. The "examples I give that aren't even that ridiculous" could increase our DPS by as much as 20% or give us room to be near unkillable while still an offensive threat. We would be completely broken in competitive modes.

    I'm not saying it isn't a balancable concept, but I am saying that at face value it's a ridiculous suggestion because it removes a LOT of tradeoffs and would allow us room to bring our strongest defenses at the same time as our strongest offenses which isn't a fair balance.

    Competively kits are not used with meta holosmith builds. They are used in PvE because you don't need to worry about bringing utility like break stuns, mobility, or sustain. PvE runs 3 kits because you are trying to squeeze every bit of damage out.

    Typically with how kits are designed right now you bring those kits for a handful of abilities. To me that's bad class design. More than one skill in a kit should be relevant. Of course with a change like this, there would need to be rebalancing. Kits currently are balanced around having access to 5 kits simultaneously. That's why a lot of them feel weak or empty.

    I don't see how this is overpowered. Yes it would be similar to elementalist attunements, however elementalist have access to 4 "kits" while my suggestion would limit to 2. This would also be inherantly different to elementalist because you get to choose which kits go into the slots which make for more interesting build designs.