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Difficulty of Raids


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@Bobzitto.8571 said:

@"ProtoGunner.4953" said:Old topic and still no solution. What I don't get is that similar popular MMOs all managed to introduce raid difficulties. Why not anet? I used to raid in WoW a decade ago, but time management is different now. I work, I play other games, I have a lot of friends I want to meet them and visiting many concert gigs.

Hence, since it is still content that I want to see, I would appreciate an easy mode with lowered rewards and simpler mechanics. I
am
able to raid, but not willing. Since you need a lot of wasted time, failing for 3h isn't just productive and I am not willing to waste so much time. I can have a great time with progress in - let's say - a Zelda game. Why waste it on one boss and the 'fault' is not me, but the tank or healer?

Because raids in other games are part of the core gear progression, so it's much easier to create rewards to go with easier difficulties (e.g. "easy" drops iLvl 75 gear, "normaldrops iLvl 85 gear and "hard" drops iLvl 95 gear). You don't have to create different sets of rewards, just lower their stats. In GW2 we don't have a gear grind. All the rewards from raids are either currency used to buy what's essentially transmog gear or items for legendary armor/ring collections.

You’ll have easy “raids” with strikes once they get more out. Why do the existing raids, which were intended to be the most challenging content in the game, need an easy mode to bring it down to the other face roll content in the game?

Why not, so long as the rewards are toned down as well?

What these rewards would be then? Atm raid rewards are pretty bad already. And you would still need to do collections for legendary gear which includes normal raids.For now you get 2 gold, some random bad loot, few shards and li or ld/boss. What would nerfed rewards be like?

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This is 100% opinion (as is pretty much everything on these forums) - but I firmly believe that raids in their current form in GW2 are not sustainable. Without broader appeal, it doesn't make sense to dedicate more resources to them, meaning - at most - you will see three new raids every two years - and that will result in a loss of interest by the hardcore community.

Right now, almost no one is happy with the state of raids - including hard core raiders. Implementing tiered difficulties is as much about making sure the hard modes survive and flourish in the game as it is about providing an experience for the more story-oriented players. Expanding the audience for the content would justify additional investment in the content - it really is the only path forward for this game mode, imo.

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@"Cyninja.2954" said:

I disagree. I don't think the amount of players who are not interested in raids currently would be magically interested in raids if they were easier is very big.

I think the biggest group of players not interested in raids would remain uninterested in raids no matter their difficulty. Ths current strike mission, which is basically a raid boss in super super easy, is a perfect example of where easy raid rewards would be. Even for that mission, some less skilled players have issues completing it. The skill ceiling drops infinately low.

Are you serious here? That so called "boss" can raise problems to someone? LoL? Or to cry? That .... creature is weaker than a Fractal Boss. Even the Spider Queen in Kessex Hills can be more dangerous. If ANet seriously considered that this strike can be something as a stepping stone for raids, then they made a mistake. But I don't think that the players struggling with the strike are so vocal in asking to lower the Raids difficulty.

In my opinion not the difficulty of the raid itself (mechanics / attack values from enemy) is making the people to stay away. But the fact that many, many, many casuals cannot find another 9 casuals to try a raid when they have time to play. The 10 man composition of the raid is the main problem.

So, I agree with you here - even by lowering the difficulty of the raids you won't make too many players interested to raid. Unless ANet will change the format - to 5 man teams.

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@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:

I disagree. I don't think the amount of players who are not interested in raids currently would be magically interested in raids if they were easier is very big.

I think the biggest group of players not interested in raids would remain uninterested in raids no matter their difficulty. Ths current strike mission, which is basically a raid boss in super super easy, is a perfect example of where easy raid rewards would be. Even for that mission, some less skilled players have issues completing it. The skill ceiling drops infinately low.

Are you serious here? That so called "boss" can raise problems to someone? LoL? Or to cry? That .... creature is weaker than a Fractal Boss. Even the Spider Queen in Kessex Hills can be more dangerous.

I joined a squad yesterday and 8 of 10 players went downstate after the plateau mechanic. Another player and me were saving the run...I don't need to mention I had a glass cannon build. So yeah, people can definitely wipe here but I really don't know how.

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@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:

I disagree. I don't think the amount of players who are not interested in raids currently would be magically interested in raids if they were easier is very big.

I think the biggest group of players not interested in raids would remain uninterested in raids no matter their difficulty. Ths current strike mission, which is basically a raid boss in super super easy, is a perfect example of where easy raid rewards would be. Even for that mission, some less skilled players have issues completing it. The skill ceiling drops infinately low.

Are you serious here? That so called "boss" can raise problems to someone? LoL?

I’ve been in groups where someone manages to get themself into downstate within 15 seconds of starting the boss. There are also a lot of people that just eat the damage rather than mitigate/avoid it. There’s also the wave(s) at the end that people don’t avoid and end up getting downed from.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

Why not, so long as the rewards are toned down as well?

I have no issue so long long as the following are met:
  • Doesn’t pull any resources which ends up delaying content
  • No achievement/collection progression
  • No LI/LD rewards
  • No unique boss drops (e.g. infusions, miniatures, skins) although I’d make an exception for ascended armor/weapons so those starting out in exotics can upgrade to ascended through raids.

Essentially the mode is there for them to experience the content and “train”.

Which just shows why raiding content (or any sort of decent PvE, really) and a game that has zero gear progression don't really mix.

As for the whole resource expenditure, I don't know how ANet designs their encounters but from what the raid design team in WoW has said, after you create an encounter and test it, you can gauge where it is in the difficulty curve and add/remove mechanics to create the other difficulties. So it's a bit of an organic process to have several difficulties.

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@"Blaeys.3102" said:This is 100% opinion (as is pretty much everything on these forums) - but I firmly believe that raids in their current form in GW2 are not sustainable. Without broader appeal, it doesn't make sense to dedicate more resources to them, meaning - at most - you will see three new raids every two years - and that will result in a loss of interest by the hardcore community.

Right now, almost no one is happy with the state of raids - including hard core raiders. Implementing tiered difficulties is as much about making sure the hard modes survive and flourish in the game as it is about providing an experience for the more story-oriented players. Expanding the audience for the content would justify additional investment in the content - it really is the only path forward for this game mode, imo.

The question is how much broader the appeal will be with the addition of tiered difficulties, keep in mind that not everyone likes running instanced content. We see arguments about making Raids for "everyone" or the "majority" yet I seriously doubt any amount of easy modes will do that. Everyone and majority are very strong words, especially considering the Guild Wars 2 playerbase and instanced content.

I believe the first Strike Mission has such a low difficulty level to identify the upper limit of the instanced content population. It's gonna be Total = R (raiders who run it at least once) + X (the non-raiders interested in instanced content). And since they are calling them "stepping stones for Raids" the next number to identify is how many of that X turn into R over time. Those two metrics will make decisions about future Raid design clearer/easier.

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@"Bobzitto.8571" said:As for the whole resource expenditure, I don't know how ANet designs their encounters but from what the raid design team in WoW has said, after you create an encounter and test it, you can gauge where it is in the difficulty curve and add/remove mechanics to create the other difficulties.

That's how a lot of the Raids work in Guild Wars 2, even within the same encounter, it will escalate and get more mechanics as the fight progresses. And challenge motes add extra mechanics on top. The most effortless way of adding more modes is by using the encounter itself and "stop" the fight at an early stage. For example, the Vale Guardian before the first split is a very easy experience, even first time training groups can manage it. "Stopping" the fight at that point equals an easy mode with very little (hopefully) development effort.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Bobzitto.8571" said:As for the whole resource expenditure, I don't know how ANet designs their encounters but from what the raid design team in WoW has said, after you create an encounter and test it, you can gauge where it is in the difficulty curve and add/remove mechanics to create the other difficulties.

That's how a lot of the Raids work in Guild Wars 2, even within the same encounter, it will escalate and get more mechanics as the fight progresses. And challenge motes add extra mechanics on top. The most effortless way of adding more modes is by using the encounter itself and "stop" the fight at an early stage. For example, the Vale Guardian before the first split is a very easy experience, even first time training groups can manage it. "Stopping" the fight at that point equals an easy mode with very little (hopefully) development effort.

Come to think of it, that is actually a very good idea. I had never thought of actually cutting fights short as training. Not sure how complex this would be code wise, but it would make testing and training possible.

Just cut all fights to the first 1rd or half of their normal duration.

I still don't think this would be a wise implementation of resources but at least this might be easier than redesigning the entire fight.

As a bonus, maybe have the bosses available in the training area as holograms. Make players aware of the training golem AND implement this lore wise in a sensible manner.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Blaeys.3102" said:This is 100% opinion (as is pretty much everything on these forums) - but I firmly believe that raids in their current form in GW2 are not sustainable. Without broader appeal, it doesn't make sense to dedicate more resources to them, meaning - at most - you will see three new raids every two years - and that will result in a loss of interest by the hardcore community.

Right now, almost no one is happy with the state of raids - including hard core raiders. Implementing tiered difficulties is as much about making sure the hard modes survive and flourish in the game as it is about providing an experience for the more story-oriented players. Expanding the audience for the content would justify additional investment in the content - it really is the only path forward for this game mode, imo.

The question is how much broader the appeal will be with the addition of tiered difficulties, keep in mind that not everyone likes running instanced content. We see arguments about making Raids for "everyone" or the "majority" yet I seriously doubt any amount of easy modes will do that. Everyone and majority are very strong words, especially considering the Guild Wars 2 playerbase and instanced content.

I believe the first Strike Mission has such a low difficulty level to identify the upper limit of the instanced content population. It's gonna be Total = R (raiders who run it at least once) + X (the non-raiders interested in instanced content). And since they are calling them "stepping stones for Raids" the next number to identify is how many of that X turn into R over time. Those two metrics will make decisions about future Raid design clearer/easier.

I agree that you can never make them for "everyone," nor should they try. The point is to expand the appeal beyond what we have today - to justify greater investment. If they don't, they might as well scrap them now. In their current model (content and delivery time), I don't think they are sustainable (again, 100% opinion).

The problem with the first Strike Mission isn't its difficulty - it is its simplicity. It might as well be an open world encounter. That fight definitely is not a "stepping stone" to raiding. To provide a stepping stone to raiding, they need to use actual raid mechanics - just at a lower intensity or by adding them gradually to a fight (cutting out the more punishing at lower levels to let players master the easier ones first - stepping stones). The best way to accomplish that would obviously be to use actual raid fights - scaled to a lower difficulty (a lower step on the approach to the top - stepping stones). I think strike missions have potential, but will only be successful if they too scale - including actual mechanics and tiered difficulty to bring in actual raiders. In other words, in their current iteration, they will suffer from the same issue raids have - only appealing to a tiny percentage of the player base. Expand them through difficulty tiers and you not only create "stepping stones" - you give raiders something to do between larger raid releases.

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Bla bla bla, you learn the highest tier difficulty by playing that difficulty.

I am doing alot of raids in final fantasy. Very often when I ask tanks at the easy raids yo what skills are the tankbusters and for which ones do you need to swap agro they dont know. Then you go into savage and everyone knows. Because in savage you get killed and in normal raids you can ignore mechanics.

If I can clear savage raids in FF by joining horrible practice groups and me getting flamed and kicked quite often, but also making friends in the end and progressing, I am sure almost anyone can do it in the friendly gw2 community.

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@DutchRiders.2871 said:Bla bla bla, you learn the highest tier difficulty by playing that difficulty.

I am doing alot of raids in final fantasy. Very often when I ask tanks at the easy raids yo what skills are the tankbusters and for which ones do you need to swap agro they dont know. Then you go into savage and everyone knows. Because in savage you get killed and in normal raids you can ignore mechanics.Not entirely. The earlier-expac normal modes, sure (but see below). You outgear them heavily, and you can get away with ignoring a lot of stuff. Eden normal however? Try to do one of them with tanks that have no idea what's going on and it's a real kittenshow. And even in alexander and omega there are some fights where, heavily outgeared as you are, not knowing mechanics will kill you.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Bobzitto.8571" said:As for the whole resource expenditure, I don't know how ANet designs their encounters but from what the raid design team in WoW has said, after you create an encounter and test it, you can gauge where it is in the difficulty curve and add/remove mechanics to create the other difficulties.

That's how a lot of the Raids work in Guild Wars 2, even within the same encounter, it will escalate and get more mechanics as the fight progresses. And challenge motes add extra mechanics on top. The most effortless way of adding more modes is by using the encounter itself and "stop" the fight at an early stage. For example, the Vale Guardian before the first split is a very easy experience, even first time training groups can manage it. "Stopping" the fight at that point equals an easy mode with very little (hopefully) development effort.

Come to think of it, that is actually a very good idea.
I had never thought of actually cutting fights short as training. Not sure how complex this would be code wise, but it would make testing and training possible.

Just cut all fights to the first 1rd or half of their normal duration.

I still don't think this would be a wise implementation of resources but at least this might be easier than redesigning the entire fight.

As a bonus,
maybe have the bosses available in the training area as holograms
. Make players aware of the training golem AND implement this lore wise in a sensible manner.

Sooooo.... Let's return back to my original suggestion while taking out a few of the points raised against it.

My 'easy mode' was suggested as 'the same fights with less mechanics.' nearly the same as, 'cutting the fight short'... Both good suggestions I think. Adding a CM to easy mode changing the boss to normal, is good because training groups can do the bosses they are trained on at normal difficulty.

Strike missions are not easy mode raids. The point of an 'easy mode' is that it's the same encounter. Not an entirely different experience.

But I also suggested hard mode, to give experienced raiders a more challenging mode, with higher rate of rewards.

Note that both modes would need to be introduced for my idea to work. (for more details read OP)

As for Anet development staff not being available for this... That's the furthest thing from our problem.

If we have good ideas, and the community likes them, it's up to Anet to get it done. Don't put the cart before the horse worrying about what they do and don't have resources to do while you are wishlisting.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@DutchRiders.2871 said:Bla bla bla, you learn the highest tier difficulty by playing that difficulty.

I am doing alot of raids in final fantasy. Very often when I ask tanks at the easy raids yo what skills are the tankbusters and for which ones do you need to swap agro they dont know. Then you go into savage and everyone knows. Because in savage you get killed and in normal raids you can ignore mechanics.Not entirely. The earlier-expac normal modes, sure (but see below). You outgear them heavily, and you can get away with ignoring a lot of stuff. Eden normal however? Try to do one of them with tanks that have no idea what's going on and it's a real kittenshow. And even in alexander and omega there are some fights where, heavily outgeared as you are, not knowing mechanics
will
kill you.

I can queue on my 435 gunbreaker and not have a single tank swap and complete it. Look at gw2, I find regular 100 more difficult than the cms.

Let's say I do 100cm, would I rather have someone that has 20 hours on regular 100 or someone that did nothing in regular but practiced 1 hour in cm ?

I rather have someone skip 1-75 in fractals and start with a regular t4 group.

Look tiers are great for offering different intensities for similar content. It's great to know that there are more challenges ahead. But I dont believe low lv tiers really prepare you for the higher difficulties.

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@BrokenGlass.9356 said:If we have good ideas, and the community likes them, it's up to Anet to get it done. Don't put the cart before the horse worrying about what they do and don't have resources to do while you are wishlisting.We just need to be careful not to end with another template debacle, and people saying that if we don;t like what we'll get, we shouldn't have been mentioning any wishes.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"BrokenGlass.9356" said:If we have good ideas, and the community likes them, it's up to Anet to get it done. Don't put the cart before the horse worrying about what they do and don't have resources to do while you are wishlisting.We just need to be careful not to end with another template debacle, and people saying that if we don;t like what we'll get, we shouldn't have been mentioning any wishes.

This is true.

What's sad to me is the character of the debate.

Group a) wants easier raids, for more folks to get involved. Where group b) doesn't want welfare gamers getting all the loot they got the hard way. When anyone says, 'we should have an easy mode' group b descends from the rafters to explain how anyone playing easier raids would ruin thier lives. Group a, however has been talking about this for a long time.

If you ask group a, why do you want easier raids? They'll answer, "I want more people to be able to learn." "Or, I want raids I can do more casually." but really, they just recognize kitten-hole behavior when they see it, and they want a reduction of elitism.

Why is there elitism? Because the content is hard. (queue the deluge of "this game isn't hard lolz! L2P get gud nuub!") and because it's hard, people who are good at it don't want thier time wasted. So they boot anyone not up to snuff. OK, fine. I don't want my time wasted either. I've been know to boot a clueless Joe every once and awhile.

So, now you have this comparatively huge group of players, where the difficulty of then raid, is LESS than the difficulty of finding a group. So despite wanting to raid, these folks never do. (queue the deluge of, 'you can use LFG yourself' 'just use discord' etc...) because they don't have the time to find groups, to learn the content, so they can stop wasting time. (queue for the next deluge of 'but I did it the hard way, don't make it easy for those whiny welfare-gamers!')

So, every attempt to address this issue, ends up upsetting one of either group.

Even my attempt, to walk the middle line, didn't even make a dent in the deeply entrenched OPINIONS of everyone involved... They just decided to use my thread about a specific change.... To rehash all the old reasons why. We even got into 'how well staffed is Anet and can they handle patching thier game, and let's only make hypothetical suggestions we feel they are capable of.'

Jeez.

Go reread OP. With an open mind.

Instead of seeing one tiny pebble and letting it derail the train, try to focus on the big picture.

I don't necessarily think I have the best answer. But I do have a clear view of the problem... Which, most of the arguments here and elsewhere show, is a rarity. When a bridge is broken, hire an engineer. Why? You need someone who understands why it broke, long before you call the welding and concrete folks. Just saying.

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Well fine. Nevertheless your topic was discussed thousands and thousand times before like the first reply already told you and all that with no reaction from Arenanet but "raids are and will be our most challenging content in the game and therefore we have no plans in making easier modes at the moment."So, what do you expect from another/your thread? As a customer you can vote with your wallet, that's all you got. And although I'm repeating myself that the reasonable members of this subforum already stated that they are ok with easier modes under certain conditions we still don't have any change at all. It's definitely Arenanet and their resources who are the bottleneck otherwise we would see a better communication for the whole game, more additional content in terms of fractals and raids and I'm sure more tiers/possibilities of easier access and most certainly distinct raid tiers.I've been here since 2013 (even if it was a different forum) and I painfully remember the long content drought for the whole game and especially for instanced content. It was a desaster to see dungeons being abandoned, very few official statements, the "dungeon debugging initiative debacle" which lead to an incredible frustration of the sub community and often to not having hope any longer.Man, it's not the community holding Arenanet back, it's them and a lot of ignorance and/or incompetence at the management & leading level since I'm sure players were not the first ones with the idea of different tier levels for raids or other ideas which could possibly improve the game.

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I see your point. And I understand the frustration.

To me, forums are a place to discuss the game. I don't really think Anet combs over these conversations picking out the gems. Like, the one time Anet listened to me, is when they broke the confusion condition in PvE, and even then... They didn't listen to me I was just the loudest, most annoying person who didn't give a kitten about complaining in public... And a huge number of folks commented on the thread. And even then, they didn't do what I, or most of the rest of that thread, wanted.

So, I just want to discuss how to find the theoretical perfect creamy center. If folks own apathy and lost hope causes them to get away from the conversation of ideas? Well... Nothing I can do but remind everyone that 'constantly sipping from your glass eventually causes it it be half empty.' then try to reframe the discussion around what liquid is in the glass vs, what should be in the glass...

I opened this thread trying to find a middle path. I was trying to have a diffrent discussion.

My idea had easy mode raids as a component. Not the whole thing. And the idea is worthless with only half of it in play. So, everyone who read that, and decided this thread has been done before... They saw a glass full of water, declared it half empty, and never leaned down to smell the vodka.

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I disagree I think everything is on the table - still.With this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1I can totally understand to bump this and to make new ones with similar topics but differentiation and I'm fine with it.

And no, I'm not frustrated I just have a realistic view about their philosophy and their action regarding certain content. This view is not directed towards PvE alone. Just have a look at the PvP section and the WvW section - both suffered heavily over the years and still don't get enough attention at all.Your protest against confusion damage in PvE is nothing compared to change or differentiate content when we speak about developer resources and more. But even if the community is loud and constructive we won't see a different approach because they just can't. They would have to stop their release cycles which were already heavily late although estimated differently and adjust the structures once again in the case that we will see less LS content but more or altered instanced content. But: This is not their overall philosophy. Their path is the one of the LS - now called "Saga" which literally is old wine in new skins.We would need a complete overhaul of their company structure and that my dear is not going to happen - ever.

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@"Vinceman.4572" said:Well fine. Nevertheless your topic was discussed thousands and thousand times before like the first reply already told you and all that with no reaction from Arenanet but "raids are and will be our most challenging content in the game and therefore we have no plans in making easier modes at the moment."Notice though, that in their last interview their stance wasn't as rigid anymore. The problem no longer is raids remaining "the most challenging content in the game". It is now finding a way to do it without too negatively impacting raid release schedule. That's a massive change in attitude. Even if the end result so far is the same.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Vinceman.4572" said:Well fine. Nevertheless your topic was discussed thousands and thousand times before like the first reply already told you and all that with no reaction from Arenanet but
"raids are and will be our most challenging content in the game and therefore we have no plans in making easier modes at the moment."
Notice though, that in their last interview their stance wasn't as rigid anymore. The problem no longer is raids remaining "the most challenging content in the game". It is now finding a way to do it without too negatively impacting raid release schedule. That's a massive change in attitude. Even if the end result so far is the same.

I'm aware of that but regardless we got the introduction of strike missions which will heavily fail in my opinion due to several reasons we discussed before. On a serious note I would rather have the existent raids as an easy mode than this new "creation". I mean, they don't need to re-invent the wheel just take a proper look at the 7 wings. I don't mind development resources any longer because let's be real the serious raid community already abandoned the sunken sinking ship. The template debacle is a different thing but comes on top of all the things happened this year so far. I really wish they would focus on content which means bringing out the next episode asap with their new team structure and further ones faster, hand out an easy raid mode for the casual crowd, abandon further raids officially because unofficially they already have with these long release cycles and focus on fractals as shorter quarterly tiered content. Last but not least continue to design the shinies for the gem store to get enough revenues. As it stands for now I cannot imagine they'll survive the actual strategy for a very long time.Revenues were looking decent but with no expansion on the horizon and only free episodes of the Saga this will decrease a lot. It's unlikely that the templates and their financial outcome will be successful + a good amount of players, namely the raiding crowd will not invest. They rather leave the game or have left around the ERP.

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@"Vinceman.4572" said:I disagree I think everything is on the table - still.With this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1I can totally understand to bump this and to make new ones with similar topics but differentiation and I'm fine with it.

And no, I'm not frustrated I just have a realistic view about their philosophy and their action regarding certain content. This view is not directed towards PvE alone. Just have a look at the PvP section and the WvW section - both suffered heavily over the years and still don't get enough attention at all.Your protest against confusion damage in PvE is nothing compared to change or differentiate content when we speak about developer resources and more. But even if the community is loud and constructive we won't see a different approach because they just can't. They would have to stop their release cycles which were already heavily late although estimated differently and adjust the structures once again in the case that we will see less LS content but more or altered instanced content. But: This is not their overall philosophy. Their path is the one of the LS - now called "Saga" which literally is old wine in new skins.We would need a complete overhaul of their company structure and that my dear is not going to happen - ever.

I think we imagine an impossible monster inside Anet. If they decide something is a good idea, they'll get it done. We worry, and doubt what they can do, yet we all still play thier game. The doubt of Anet is exactly like doubting plate tectonics in the earth's crust. Just because it moves so little each year as to be barely measurable, doesn't mean that it's not moving.

We can say that the balance in game, is better now than its ever been. And I don't think it's fair to fault them for 'not working hard enough' the way we do, when we question how the managers lay out development teams or allocate projects.

The fact is, that IF they will take anything from a thread, it's not going to be because we were complaining. As far as I can tell, it will be if it's an insightful idea they didn't think of, and not because of somebody's hurt feelings.

Anet may want to solve hurt feelings, like I do, because I like Anet, want a better community. But they may not know how in certain circumstances. (see WvW and sPvP, as prime examples. Every nerf, even rightly called for... cough Rev hammer cough gets met with a deluge of butt hurt. Which is a gross image.)

So, while I don't know game design and math, I do know people, psychology, and the 'why's behind certain actions. Things most suggestions gloss over. Most suggestions say something like "we should change x so I can feel better". And it's easy to mistrust suggestions that feel like that. But, "we should change x, because I observe others having a bad time" gets ignored, because "changing that, doesn't help me, why would you do that?" and most people aren't interested in sacrificing even a tiny shred of thier own fun, for someone else's fun. But what can I say, I played player two on my own Nintendo, and spent time watching my friends play on my console as a kid. Why? Making folks happy, is in an of itself, a form of fun. So theorizing how to repair the suffering of others? Totally my bag.

And in fairness, and to show my blind spots... I shouldn't be pitching a plan to modify behaviors, to the very people whose behavior I'm trying to modify. But I couldn't just stick it in the PvP fourms, nobody would read it.

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The problem of threads like this is that there is a huge variety of opinions how easy it should get. Just look at the strike mission. Nearly everyone is complaining that it is too easy.

The OP said „Easy mode- reduced mechanics and dps check…”Let’s use this for Escort, MO and even Cairn:There is no relevant dps check (though I don’t know what happens at MO if you reach enrage) so you’d have to remove one mechanic (or make it less deadly) -> you’ll get an open world escort event or a dps golem with the difficulty level of the strike mission.Who would be happy about that?

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@BrokenGlass.9356 said:

I think we imagine an impossible monster inside Anet. If they decide something is a good idea, they'll get it done.

And still, we get build templates in a very inferior design compared to a tool that comes from one single developer. Additionally this feature was asked for years ago. In the german forums we were asking the community manager - he doesn't exist any longer - before HoT about build templates. He told us: We need to be convinced to have good stuff to implement it. On reddit this theme was present every day over the years but they started to develop it late 2017.Anet is just out of touch with the community which several examples have shown in the past. They don't like to comment officially on reddit, their social media competence looks like being rudimentary. Best example was the Deroir and JP thing. It's also ridiculous that they have never used market research or at least ingame community polls. So, overall they are almost fishing in the dark because you never know from the forums if there's a minority complaining or not. They cannot know stuff for sure - that's not how you rule a successful (gaming) company in 2k19.

We worry, and doubt what they can do, yet we all still play thier game. The doubt of Anet is exactly like doubting plate tectonics in the earth's crust. Just because it moves so little each year as to be barely measurable, doesn't mean that it's not moving.

Hmm, I don't know. I'm playing but not as much as in the past and the most important thing: I haven't spend any money this year and after the recent announcements which are: no expansions but Icebrood Saga, the template fraud (it's fraud for me, sorry) and MO leaving the company as the last founder of Arenanet I'm not going to give any credit. My casual companions are long gone, from my raid static 2 additional players are playing at the moment and both don't spend money as well.I need to be convinced that their strategy will be successful because from a professional business perspective it's lights out soon.

We can say that the balance in game, is better now than its ever been. And I don't think it's fair to fault them for 'not working hard enough' the way we do, when we question how the managers lay out development teams or allocate projects.

I don't care about balance if there's no interesting content to play but looking into the gem shop.

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