How to fix Mirage

[SeikeNz.3526]

disable infinite horizon/ambush from clones, just think about it, why condi chrono cant stack 100k of condis on someone? because they don't have infinite horizon, the problem is that clones get mirage cloak and ambush at same time so they can stack forever, just give the clones only the evasion without ambush

3 clones = 3 more stack of all kinds per atk

mirage fixed

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

[Sandzibar.5134]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

So what are the downsides again?

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

So what are the downsides again?

Downsizes of deleting a profession from game? Players maining it leaving the game as many already did.

[Kumouta.4985]

i mean, it isn't very fun to have to dodge everything or get 9 stacks of every damaging condition on me from like 2 button presses by the mirage, so i'm personally all for it getting every nerf possible. I don't have any problems with fighting the class in particular, but from what dmg it does with such ease and its stupid evade/invuln uptime it still seems way overtuned compared to, say, an ele who can only stack like 11 burns in a second but has to use pretty much all their skills for it and barely has a cover condi. I do think that actually being able to kill the clones like i would be able to against a normal non-broken mesmer would remedy its imbalancedness pretty well.

[BadMed.3846]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

So what are the downsides again?

Downsizes of deleting a profession from game? Players maining it leaving the game as many already did.

Let's not blow it out of proportion. OP has made a great suggestion to tone down mirage that is surely over performing. It will only be good for balanced gameplay. Let's bring it on!

[Halikus.1406]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:disable infinite horizon/ambush from clones, just think about it, why condi chrono cant stack 100k of condis on someone? because they don't have infinite horizon, the problem is that clones get mirage cloak and ambush at same time so they can stack forever, just give the clones only the evasion without ambush

3 clones = 3 more stack of all kinds per atk

mirage fixed

It's actually a good sugestion.It would tone down the ridiculous burst and keep the clones survivability. I wouldn't mind this nerf, good idea OP.

[Abelisk.5148]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

Doesn't that seem wrong? An optional GM trait dictates an entire class's viability in Conquest?

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

Doesn't that seem wrong? An optional GM trait dictates an entire class's viability in Conquest?

Indeed it is wrong. All other mirage traits are trash.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

Doesn't that seem wrong? An optional GM trait dictates an entire class's viability in Conquest?

Ah, I think you've misunderstood him there. What he meant was: "Without this trait, I'll no longer be capable of killing someone(facerollkeyboardwarrior) else with my current skill (nonexistant) and understanding of game like with chrono and other classes that were barely shaved thus making it impossible to play aswell(facerollkeyboardwarrior)".It's actually so funny to see how hard people try to justify and defend powercreep, yet I'm pretty sure these people don't even use their core classes anymore for some (un)known reasons.

[viquing.8254]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:disable infinite horizon/ambush from clones, just think about it, why condi chrono cant stack 100k of condis on someone? because they don't have infinite horizon, the problem is that clones get mirage cloak and ambush at same time so they can stack forever, just give the clones only the evasion without ambush

3 clones = 3 more stack of all kinds per atk

mirage fixed

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

So what are the downsides again?

In case you didn't notice, the only way for mesmer to put a bit of pressure is via clones ambush (and I'm not fan on this gameplay yeah.), that's why should it be condi or direct mirage it has to :1) take most vigor trait + sigil to have a good ambush uptime.2) take deceptive evasion + privilegiaite weapon with 2 clones generation to have a good clones uptime.

Now the downside :1) Easy to LOS.2) Obvious animation.3) Clones destroyables.4) Using evade to attack and defense.

why condi chrono cant stack 100k of condis on someone?Because chrono is trash?

---

The day mesmer pop 4k+ on every weapon skill like warriors you can ride everything else meanwhile without the pressure from IH, mirage will not kill anything.

[Halikus.1406]

@viquing.8254 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:disable infinite horizon/ambush from clones, just think about it, why condi chrono cant stack 100k of condis on someone? because they don't have infinite horizon, the problem is that clones get mirage cloak and ambush at same time so they can stack forever, just give the clones only the evasion without ambush

3 clones = 3 more stack of all kinds per atk

mirage fixed

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

So what are the downsides again?

In case you didn't notice, the only way for mesmer to put a bit of pressure is via clones ambush (and I'm not fan on this gameplay yeah.), that's why should it be condi or direct mirage it has to :1) take most vigor trait + sigil to have a good ambush uptime.2) take deceptive evasion + privilegiaite weapon with 2 clones generation to have a good clones uptime.

Now the downside :1) Easy to LOS.2) Obvious animation.3) Clones destroyables.4) Using evade to attack and defense.

why condi chrono cant stack 100k of condis on someone?Because chrono is trash?

---

The day mesmer pop 4k+ on every weapon skill like warriors you can ride everything else meanwhile without the pressure from IH, mirage will not kill anything.

This is also right and it's where come the problem introduced by PoF. The amount of sustain classes have since the latest expansion makes anything with less dmg or burst than PoF levels simply not viable. Although I do like the sugestion without tunning down the sustain classes have we will just be heading into a boring bunker/sustain meta again once all DPS's have been toned down.

Plus I don't think anyone deserves the Chrono treatment. LoL

[Daishi.6027]

I’d be fine with this IF:Condi shatters are buffed making it the primary damage method.

Nomads endurance returns to 3 seconds.Critical Infusion returns to 5.Blinding dissipation returns to all shatters. (Maybe returns ineptitude back to illusions to discourage chaos synergy)Jaunts Goes back to 20 second recharge with 3 stacks.Illusionary Ambush cooldown is reduced by 15 seconds.And Portal is reverted.

You get to pick. Does Mesmer do lots of front loaded damage? Or does it survive?

Ppl complained about survivabulity more so than damage, now here we are.

Pick which one, as much as many of you probably would like it doesn’t get to do neither.

Frankly I would have preferred the clone spam damage got nerfed initially and we ONLY got the nerf to mirage cloak duration, and Evasive mirror.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

Doesn't that seem wrong? An optional GM trait dictates an entire class's viability in Conquest?

Ah, I think you've misunderstood him there. What he meant was: "Without this trait, I'll no longer be capable of killing someone(facerollkeyboardwarrior) else with my current skill (nonexistant) and understanding of game like with chrono and other classes that were barely shaved thus making it impossible to play aswell(facerollkeyboardwarrior)".It's actually so funny to see how hard people try to justify and defend powercreep, yet I'm pretty sure these people don't even use their core classes anymore for some (un)known reasons.

Naa, no misunderstanding here.Without IH mirage doesn't exist, the sole reason people play mirage is because of IH, since, again, all mirage traits except IH are trash.

[bravan.3876]

IH is not a problem just most ambushes (the condi ambushes) are not designed well and do overperform. With other words rework condi ambush attacks (and normal condi clone autoattacks they are way stronger than power clones already for no good reason) without killing the active gameplay part and the skill ceiling the trait adds for Powermesmers. During that you need to give Condimesmer more active ways of condi application back (shatters) to not overnerf it.

[Abelisk.5148]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

Doesn't that seem wrong? An optional GM trait dictates an entire class's viability in Conquest?

Indeed it is wrong. All other mirage traits are trash.

Sure thing, let's leave the problem unattended instead of fixing what needs to get fixed. If other traits are trash, fix those.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

I wonder why they would take away ip from chrono, but mirage gets to keep it?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

I wonder why they would take away ip from chrono, but mirage gets to keep it?

becouse they want mesmer to have at least one semiplayable spec.

[otto.5684]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:disable infinite horizon/ambush from clones, just think about it, why condi chrono cant stack 100k of condis on someone? because they don't have infinite horizon, the problem is that clones get mirage cloak and ambush at same time so they can stack forever, just give the clones only the evasion without ambush

3 clones = 3 more stack of all kinds per atk

mirage fixed

You do understand this is the only mirage can deal.. any damage at all. This is the equivalent of removing shades from scourge or FC from SB. The entire elite will stop working.

I think Anet corned mirage into playing ranged clone spams where AI does most of the damage. It is an extremely bad design from every angle (and not effective in higher ranks). And no one used to play it when axe was functional. Ranged clones should not deal any damage, but this is a fundamental change that requires major work from Anet to ensure that the elite, the weapons and the class as whole function effectively after the change. In other words, it will never ever happen since Anet devs lack the ability (resources or competence? Not sure anymore) to make such a change.

Do not try to solo mirage as warrior. Okay?

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

Doesn't that seem wrong? An optional GM trait dictates an entire class's viability in Conquest?

Indeed it is wrong. All other mirage traits are trash.

Sure thing, let's leave the problem unattended instead of fixing what needs to get fixed. If other traits are trash, fix those.

Never said they shouldn't fix the others. Other mesmer and I have been writing tons of balance suggestions (nerfs and buffs) since pof released.Now nerfing IH without fixing the other traits first would be awful both for mesmers and the game itself.And don't get the op and others on this thread wrong, they don't intend to nerf IH and compensate in some other way, they straight out want mesmer deleted from game.

[Fueki.4753]

HOW TO (actually) FIX MIRAGE:remove Mirage Cloak

[viquing.8254]

@"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:BlaYeah and Mr " I know everything" is ofc at a good rating with his core mesmer to prove what he said.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:I didnt play mirage before it was "broken" after several months of tryharding on mirage, i have worse results then playing core warrior spamming random skills.and im kind of sick of trying my kitten hardest to outplay others while everything they have to do is just dont be compleatly stupid to win.them winning is a basic outcome, its up to me to to stop it.screw 25perma might.screw "skilled" kite where you can hit people throught wallsscrew rampagescrew holo stealth and their sustainscrew condi thiefand screw fighting mid against firebrand as team without firebrand

Saying 'screw GW2 PvP' would have been more succinct.

[Magolith.9412]

imo they should leave all that shit alone and just disable the evade frame of mirage cloak while CC'd. It would encourage smarter play and reduce survivability of mirage overall without being too heavy handed.

[kraai.7265]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

Doesn't that seem wrong? An optional GM trait dictates an entire class's viability in Conquest?

Ah, I think you've misunderstood him there. What he meant was: "Without this trait, I'll no longer be capable of killing someone(facerollkeyboardwarrior) else with my current skill (nonexistant) and understanding of game like with chrono and other classes that were barely shaved thus making it impossible to play aswell(facerollkeyboardwarrior)".It's actually so funny to see how hard people try to justify and defend powercreep, yet I'm pretty sure these people don't even use their core classes anymore for some (un)known reasons.

you know why some defend powercreep? bacause meanwhile chrono was deleted from game, and mirage keeps getting nerf after nerf, holos are still running in easy mode, easy? i should say ps2 spider man's KID MODE! difficulty, so why should we be stripped of our tools we use to counter them? while most of them are still untouched...?

what are we supposed to do or play until they decide to actually hurt a class that it's obviously overperforming? sit on sides? pve? fuck this game and their balance decisions, can't belive people still complain about condi mirage in the condi thief, holo godmode meta