[merged] I want to keep using Arc Build Templates... :/

[Curennos.9307]

They could probably let people continue to use arcDPS and others would still buy extra slots. I hope they review their policy on addons soon. Trying to make players pay them for something another player does for free is a garbage business practice.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Curennos.9307 said:They could probably let people continue to use arcDPS and others would still buy extra slots. I hope they review their policy on addons soon. Trying to make players pay them for something another player does for free is a garbage business practice.

You do realize arc templates were free because it would be impossible for the creator of it to sell it right? If the creator of arc had sold that addon arenanet would have filed a lawsuit against him. You cannot make money off another companies product as it is illegal to do so. Hints why gold / leveling service selling is illegal in most games.

Its also garbage business practice to offer a free feature where there is a possibly to get some return on investment and allow a tool that gives players the same thing for free which will surely lower some of that return by a great deal.

If it were my job and i had the choice making money or pointing people to a place where they could get what my company sells for free i wouldnt have a job very long now would i? lol

[Curennos.9307]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:They could probably let people continue to use arcDPS and others would still buy extra slots. I hope they review their policy on addons soon. Trying to make players pay them for something another player does for free is a garbage business practice.

You do realize arc templates were free because it would be impossible for the creator of it to sell it right? If the creator of arc had sold that addon arenanet would have filed a lawsuit against him. You cannot make money off another companies product as it is illegal to do so. Hints why gold / leveling service selling is illegal in most games.

Its also garbage business practice to offer a free feature where there is a possibly to get some return on investment and allow a tool that gives players the same thing for free which will surely lower some of that return by a great deal.

If it were my job and i had the choice making money or pointing people to a place where they could get what my company sells for free i wouldnt have a job very long now would i? lol

Perhaps I should clarify the horrendously obvious.

It's a garbage business practice, from a consumer's point of view, for a company to take SO LONG to implement a feature that a player does it themselves, only for the company to later try to sell that same feature.

[Pifil.5193]

More and more I just wish they'd implemented an actual API enabling the creation of addons back in the day. Then people could have created these kind of addons from the start and we wouldn't have this kind of "one size fits few" implementation being monetized.

[C Cspace Cowboy.5903]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:They could probably let people continue to use arcDPS and others would still buy extra slots. I hope they review their policy on addons soon. Trying to make players pay them for something another player does for free is a garbage business practice.

You do realize arc templates were free because it would be impossible for the creator of it to sell it right? If the creator of arc had sold that addon arenanet would have filed a lawsuit against him. You cannot make money off another companies product as it is illegal to do so. Hints why gold / leveling service selling is illegal in most games.

Its also garbage business practice to offer a free feature where there is a possibly to get some return on investment and allow a tool that gives players the same thing for free which will surely lower some of that return by a great deal.

If it were my job and i had the choice making money or pointing people to a place where they could get what my company sells for free i wouldnt have a job very long now would i? lol

Perhaps I should clarify the horrendously obvious.

It's a garbage business practice, from a consumer's point of view, for a company to take SO LONG to implement a feature that a player does it themselves, only for the company to later try to sell that same feature.

Don't worry, I'm sure they'll come along and figure out a way to monetize the dx 12 mod aswell.

It's not like a single guy can do what a company of 400 can't...

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@MoonT.6845 said:

@"Lottie.5370" said:

Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand

hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.

Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.

Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message."Yes we want this feature"Anet gives feature"No we dont want it"

Me and every player I know wanted build templates. In our mind build is traits+gear. We get traittemplates which are great and I am 100 percent supporting this. Only sad part is 24 limitations but that can be ok especialy when combining with second feature. Then we get trait panels and gear panels. Those 2 features were never asked for. Dont get me wrong, they can be nice addition for someone who need to swap between few strictly defined builds (such as condition soulbeast, power soulbeast and heal druid) but only reason why they are better then templates is gear storage. In everything else they are inferior or same as templates. And at least the last feature. Gear templates..... wait it isnt there. The main reason why I asked for TEMPLATES was to get gear templates. And they are not there but at the same time I am not allowed to use 3rd party program that had them. Briliant.

If they added oficial templates with unlimited amount of gearcodes stored on my computer, I would buy that system imidiatly. Right now I have no reason to buy anything because it doesnt have the function I need and I would need to swap some gear by hand anyway. Why not swap the rest too.

Edit: I am willing to buy everything if that ment I can use supperior system (arc). But since arc will not be supported, I will buy nothing.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:They could probably let people continue to use arcDPS and others would still buy extra slots. I hope they review their policy on addons soon. Trying to make players pay them for something another player does for free is a garbage business practice.

You do realize arc templates were free because it would be impossible for the creator of it to sell it right? If the creator of arc had sold that addon arenanet would have filed a lawsuit against him. You cannot make money off another companies product as it is illegal to do so. Hints why gold / leveling service selling is illegal in most games.

Its also garbage business practice to offer a free feature where there is a possibly to get some return on investment and allow a tool that gives players the same thing for free which will surely lower some of that return by a great deal.

If it were my job and i had the choice making money or pointing people to a place where they could get what my company sells for free i wouldnt have a job very long now would i? lol

Perhaps I should clarify the horrendously obvious.

It's a garbage business practice, from a consumer's point of view, for a company to take SO LONG to implement a feature that a player does it themselves, only for the company to later try to sell that same feature.

But isn't the only reason it was allowed was basically under the premise that this would exactly be the case?

[Curennos.9307]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:They could probably let people continue to use arcDPS and others would still buy extra slots. I hope they review their policy on addons soon. Trying to make players pay them for something another player does for free is a garbage business practice.

You do realize arc templates were free because it would be impossible for the creator of it to sell it right? If the creator of arc had sold that addon arenanet would have filed a lawsuit against him. You cannot make money off another companies product as it is illegal to do so. Hints why gold / leveling service selling is illegal in most games.

Its also garbage business practice to offer a free feature where there is a possibly to get some return on investment and allow a tool that gives players the same thing for free which will surely lower some of that return by a great deal.

If it were my job and i had the choice making money or pointing people to a place where they could get what my company sells for free i wouldnt have a job very long now would i? lol

Perhaps I should clarify the horrendously obvious.

It's a garbage business practice, from a consumer's point of view, for a company to take SO LONG to implement a feature that a player does it themselves, only for the company to later try to sell that same feature.

But isn't the only reason it was allowed was basically under the premise that this would exactly be the case?

No idea - would be interested in seeing a source on that, just to link to others. Refer to my first reply though

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

@Guildwars.4893 said:I have only one question for anet with this build template ! Currently arcdps is leggit by anet so my biggest question is : It will be again legal after the update of build template ? My point of view is : you want win money (it's normal your need tu survive ) BUT You can't come back on your choice because you want win more money ! If you wish stop arcdps and their build template create your own arcdps for player who used it to see the dps in Raid or fractal .... and will must be free and have the same functionalities ! During this time you can't come back on your decision to delete arcdps because you want more profit. It would be just ashamed and frowned upon by the community.

Maybe the people who made arcdps dont want to continue upgrading it after every patch. This way its integrated into the game when they do decide to leave. And didnt arc at one time was deleting peoples equipment if you were lucky.

[Zaklex.6308]

@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:While I'm generally against any type of add-on, an add-on that was previously allowed in the game and deemed "ok", shouldn't suddenly deemed "not ok", because money is involved.

See the following...and this agreement was made YEARS ago, not just recently, but many YEARS ago since ArenaNet has actually been working on them for longer than 2 years:

@"UnDeadFun.5824" said:Unfortunately, deltaconnected - "This. One of the conditions to ANet allowing my templates extension was that I let it die when an official solution comes around, and that condition hasn't changed"

Card

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:But isn't the only reason it was allowed was basically under the premise that this would exactly be the case?Hard to say, since they started working on the system only some time after deltaconnected released his version. The agreement was probably in there "just in case", and i'm not so sure Anet even expected it will ever come up.

At this point the general assumption on the side of community has been that it will remain the same as for the previous 5 years - so, on the table, but without any actual work done on it. And of course the asumption was that in the unlikely case that Anet were to introduce template system, it would not be worse than Arc.

And i am completely sure practically noone expected the system to be intentionally crippled in order to monetize it better.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:They could probably let people continue to use arcDPS and others would still buy extra slots. I hope they review their policy on addons soon. Trying to make players pay them for something another player does for free is a garbage business practice.

You do realize arc templates were free because it would be impossible for the creator of it to sell it right? If the creator of arc had sold that addon arenanet would have filed a lawsuit against him. You cannot make money off another companies product as it is illegal to do so. Hints why gold / leveling service selling is illegal in most games.

Its also garbage business practice to offer a free feature where there is a possibly to get some return on investment and allow a tool that gives players the same thing for free which will surely lower some of that return by a great deal.

If it were my job and i had the choice making money or pointing people to a place where they could get what my company sells for free i wouldnt have a job very long now would i? lol

Perhaps I should clarify the horrendously obvious.

It's a garbage business practice, from a consumer's point of view, for a company to take SO LONG to implement a feature that a player does it themselves, only for the company to later try to sell that same feature.

For more clarificationThats not a garbage business practice if you never intended for that service to be part of your business in the first place what on earth are you talking about.This feature was never intended to be part of guild wars 2 originally along with so many other features which likely include

• Masteries
• Mounts
• Elite specializations
• Raidsetc etc

So there is a reason as to why it took so long to be implemented.

[ZDragon.3046]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@MoonT.6845 said:

@"Lottie.5370" said:

Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand

hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.

Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.

Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message."Yes we want this feature"Anet gives feature"No we dont want it"

Me and every player I know wanted build templates. In our mind build is traits+gear. We get traittemplates which are great and I am 100 percent supporting this. Only sad part is 24 limitations but that can be ok especialy when combining with second feature. Then we get trait panels and gear panels. Those 2 features were never asked for. Dont get me wrong, they can be nice addition for someone who need to swap between few strictly defined builds (such as condition soulbeast, power soulbeast and heal druid) but only reason why they are better then templates is gear storage. In everything else they are inferior or same as templates. And at least the last feature. Gear templates..... wait it isnt there. The main reason why I asked for TEMPLATES was to get gear templates. And they are not there but at the same time I am not allowed to use 3rd party program that had them. Briliant.

If they added oficial templates with unlimited amount of gearcodes stored on my computer, I would buy that system imidiatly. Right now I have no reason to buy anything because it doesnt have the function I need and I would need to swap some gear by hand anyway. Why not swap the rest too.

Edit: I am willing to buy everything if that ment I can use supperior system (arc). But since arc will not be supported, I will buy nothing.

I mean i can agree with you to some extent hereIf it does not fit your needs dont buy it. Which is exactly what ive been telling people. You are not being forced to pay. Yes you will lose some QoL from no longer having access to Arc Templates however you knew from the start that there could be a possibility that one day you might not be able to keep using a 3rd party addon when gw2 has always been super picky about 3rd party software.

Even if you didn't know about the agreement you knew that at any point in time anet could potentially say "this is no longer allowed" or that some day there might be a patch that "breaks it for good" or that "its creator might stop updating it" thats always the risk with 3rd party addons to games because they are not managed by the content creators of the game there is always a chance that they might not last.

Now you could argue with my last situation "But some one else could simply take on the arc title and continue to update it" Yes this could happen people have become very smart. This is likely could be the exact reason anet wants to keep everything server side now.

In the end im sorry the system does not fit your needs specifically as for its current design. But surely you understand it makes no sense for anet to take a loss on investment on something tons of people asked for even if this version was not the idea many had in mind due to how arc worked. Also that most game features are used to make money in some way or fashion this should not be a shock to anyone even more so for a game that charges no monthly fee.Mounts = Mount skinsMasteries = Require x packsetc etc

How ever i still think if it does not fit you needs then dont pay. I dont even plan to pay for this system. Im almost sure what they give fore free will be enough for me.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@MoonT.6845 said:

@"Lottie.5370" said:

Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand

hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.

Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.

Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message."Yes we want this feature"Anet gives feature"No we dont want it"

Me and every player I know wanted build templates. In our mind build is traits+gear. We get traittemplates which are great and I am 100 percent supporting this. Only sad part is 24 limitations but that can be ok especialy when combining with second feature. Then we get trait panels and gear panels. Those 2 features were never asked for. Dont get me wrong, they can be nice addition for someone who need to swap between few strictly defined builds (such as condition soulbeast, power soulbeast and heal druid) but only reason why they are better then templates is gear storage. In everything else they are inferior or same as templates. And at least the last feature. Gear templates..... wait it isnt there. The main reason why I asked for TEMPLATES was to get gear templates. And they are not there but at the same time I am not allowed to use 3rd party program that had them. Briliant.

If they added oficial templates with unlimited amount of gearcodes stored on my computer, I would buy that system imidiatly. Right now I have no reason to buy anything because it doesnt have the function I need and I would need to swap some gear by hand anyway. Why not swap the rest too.

Edit: I am willing to buy everything if that ment I can use supperior system (arc). But since arc will not be supported, I will buy nothing.

I mean i can agree with you to some extent hereIf it does not fit your needs dont buy it. Which is exactly what ive been telling people. You are not being forced to pay. Yes you will lose some QoL from no longer having access to Arc Templates however you knew from the start that there could be a possibility that one day you might not be able to keep using a 3rd party addon when gw2 has always been super picky about 3rd party software.

Even if you didn't know about the agreement you knew that at any point in time anet could potentially say "this is no longer allowed" or that some day there might be a patch that "breaks it for good" or that "its creator might stop updating it" thats always the risk with 3rd party addons to games because they are not managed by the content creators of the game there is always a chance that they might not last.

Now you could argue with my last situation "But some one else could simply take on the arc title and continue to update it" Yes this could happen people have become very smart. This is likely could be the exact reason anet wants to keep everything server side now.

In the end im sorry the system does not fit your needs specifically as for its current design. But surely you understand it makes no sense for anet to take a loss on investment on something tons of people asked for even if this version was not the idea many had in mind due to how arc worked. Also that most game features are used to make money in some way or fashion this should not be a shock to anyone even more so for a game that charges no monthly fee.Mounts = Mount skinsMasteries = Require x packsetc etc

How ever i still think if it does not fit you needs then dont pay. I dont even plan to pay for this system. Im almost sure what they give fore free will be enough for me.

And that is kinda the problem. Most casual players will not pay because standard version is enough for them and more hardcore players will not pay because this system is focused on casuals. They missed free money by adding gear templates.

Like, i know players that will write personal bot that willdo the manual part of switching for them because official templates doesnt do what they want. Anet will not get money from those players. And if they find out and ban them they will not get money either.

[ZDragon.3046]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@MoonT.6845 said:

@"Lottie.5370" said:

Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand

hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.

Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.

Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message."Yes we want this feature"Anet gives feature"No we dont want it"

Me and every player I know wanted build templates. In our mind build is traits+gear. We get traittemplates which are great and I am 100 percent supporting this. Only sad part is 24 limitations but that can be ok especialy when combining with second feature. Then we get trait panels and gear panels. Those 2 features were never asked for. Dont get me wrong, they can be nice addition for someone who need to swap between few strictly defined builds (such as condition soulbeast, power soulbeast and heal druid) but only reason why they are better then templates is gear storage. In everything else they are inferior or same as templates. And at least the last feature. Gear templates..... wait it isnt there. The main reason why I asked for TEMPLATES was to get gear templates. And they are not there but at the same time I am not allowed to use 3rd party program that had them. Briliant.

If they added oficial templates with unlimited amount of gearcodes stored on my computer, I would buy that system imidiatly. Right now I have no reason to buy anything because it doesnt have the function I need and I would need to swap some gear by hand anyway. Why not swap the rest too.

Edit: I am willing to buy everything if that ment I can use supperior system (arc). But since arc will not be supported, I will buy nothing.

I mean i can agree with you to some extent hereIf it does not fit your needs dont buy it. Which is exactly what ive been telling people. You are not being forced to pay. Yes you will lose some QoL from no longer having access to Arc Templates however you knew from the start that there could be a possibility that one day you might not be able to keep using a 3rd party addon when gw2 has always been super picky about 3rd party software.

Even if you didn't know about the agreement you knew that at any point in time anet could potentially say "this is no longer allowed" or that some day there might be a patch that "breaks it for good" or that "its creator might stop updating it" thats always the risk with 3rd party addons to games because they are not managed by the content creators of the game there is always a chance that they might not last.

Now you could argue with my last situation "But some one else could simply take on the arc title and continue to update it" Yes this could happen people have become very smart. This is likely could be the exact reason anet wants to keep everything server side now.

In the end im sorry the system does not fit your needs specifically as for its current design. But surely you understand it makes no sense for anet to take a loss on investment on something tons of people asked for even if this version was not the idea many had in mind due to how arc worked. Also that most game features are used to make money in some way or fashion this should not be a shock to anyone even more so for a game that charges no monthly fee.Mounts = Mount skinsMasteries = Require x packsetc etc

How ever i still think if it does not fit you needs then dont pay. I dont even plan to pay for this system. Im almost sure what they give fore free will be enough for me.

And that is kinda the problem. Most casual players will not pay because standard version is enough for them and more hardcore players will not pay because this system is focused on casuals. They missed free money by adding gear templates.

Now that i 100% do agree on because this is not the first or second time that this has happened.See new charr chair that dont fit charr (no communication on if this was a mistake, or if it will be fixed, or if there will be more attention going into the future)See forum suggestions for a motor cycle -ish roller mount skinSee multiple suggestions for specific parts of outfits to be sold as stand alone skins

All of which were missed opportunitiesIt boils down to anets biggest weakness the lack of cross communication. Be it vets or casuals the communication level has always been lacking with arenanet and its playerbase. This most recent balance patch is proof of that as well.

Like, i know players that will write personal bot that willdo the manual part of switching for them because official templates doesnt do what they want. Anet will not get money from those players. And if they find out and ban them they will not get money either.

Sadly i feel like most vets have already invested enough money where if you dont insert another dime for the rest of gw2's life time anet will have made enough off of you when it comes down to a single person. I know there are some people who have put thousands and i mean thousands of dollars into this game. Telling anet you wont pay now wont matter to them sadly. They already made several times more off a player who has done this than they would from the average player.

Still i think simply arguing for the use of arc and throwing insults at anets choices is not the way to get anet to see and or change the system to fit both casuals and vets who require tons on tons of build slots.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@MoonT.6845 said:

@"Lottie.5370" said:

Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand

hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.

Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.

Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message."Yes we want this feature"Anet gives feature"No we dont want it"

Me and every player I know wanted build templates. In our mind build is traits+gear. We get traittemplates which are great and I am 100 percent supporting this. Only sad part is 24 limitations but that can be ok especialy when combining with second feature. Then we get trait panels and gear panels. Those 2 features were never asked for. Dont get me wrong, they can be nice addition for someone who need to swap between few strictly defined builds (such as condition soulbeast, power soulbeast and heal druid) but only reason why they are better then templates is gear storage. In everything else they are inferior or same as templates. And at least the last feature. Gear templates..... wait it isnt there. The main reason why I asked for TEMPLATES was to get gear templates. And they are not there but at the same time I am not allowed to use 3rd party program that had them. Briliant.

If they added oficial templates with unlimited amount of gearcodes stored on my computer, I would buy that system imidiatly. Right now I have no reason to buy anything because it doesnt have the function I need and I would need to swap some gear by hand anyway. Why not swap the rest too.

Edit: I am willing to buy everything if that ment I can use supperior system (arc). But since arc will not be supported, I will buy nothing.

I mean i can agree with you to some extent hereIf it does not fit your needs dont buy it. Which is exactly what ive been telling people. You are not being forced to pay. Yes you will lose some QoL from no longer having access to Arc Templates however you knew from the start that there could be a possibility that one day you might not be able to keep using a 3rd party addon when gw2 has always been super picky about 3rd party software.

Even if you didn't know about the agreement you knew that at any point in time anet could potentially say "this is no longer allowed" or that some day there might be a patch that "breaks it for good" or that "its creator might stop updating it" thats always the risk with 3rd party addons to games because they are not managed by the content creators of the game there is always a chance that they might not last.

Now you could argue with my last situation "But some one else could simply take on the arc title and continue to update it" Yes this could happen people have become very smart. This is likely could be the exact reason anet wants to keep everything server side now.

In the end im sorry the system does not fit your needs specifically as for its current design. But surely you understand it makes no sense for anet to take a loss on investment on something tons of people asked for even if this version was not the idea many had in mind due to how arc worked. Also that most game features are used to make money in some way or fashion this should not be a shock to anyone even more so for a game that charges no monthly fee.Mounts = Mount skinsMasteries = Require x packsetc etc

How ever i still think if it does not fit you needs then dont pay. I dont even plan to pay for this system. Im almost sure what they give fore free will be enough for me.

And that is kinda the problem. Most casual players will not pay because standard version is enough for them and more hardcore players will not pay because this system is focused on casuals. They missed free money by adding gear templates.

Now that i 100% do agree on because this is not the first or second time that this has happened.See new charr chair that dont fit charr (no communication on if this was a mistake, or if it will be fixed, or if there will be more attention going into the future)See forum suggestions for a motor cycle -ish roller mount skinSee multiple suggestions for specific parts of outfits to be sold as stand alone skins

All of which were missed opportunitiesIt boils down to anets biggest weakness the lack of cross communication. Be it vets or casuals the communication level has always been lacking with arenanet and its playerbase. This most recent balance patch is proof of that as well.

Like, i know players that will write personal bot that willdo the manual part of switching for them because official templates doesnt do what they want. Anet will not get money from those players. And if they find out and ban them they will not get money either.

Sadly i feel like most vets have already invested enough money where if you dont insert another dime for the rest of gw2's life time anet will have made enough off of you when it comes down to a single person. I know there are some people who have put thousands and i mean thousands of dollars into this game. Telling anet you wont pay now wont matter to them sadly. They already made several times more off a player who has done this than they would from the average player.

Still i think simply arguing for the use of arc and throwing insults at anets choices is not the way to get anet to see and or change the system to fit both casuals and vets who require tons on tons of build slots.

They could have made same system as arkh and sell it for 3000 gems. They decided to do some fancy stuff that is usless for casual comunity and almost usless for hardcore community (gear storage) and I dont know why. I guess they thought that their product must be diferent then arc but they didnt understand what are the good parts of arc.Amd many players I play with only bought qol updates for real money. Rest was for gold.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:They could have made same system as arkh and sell it for 3000 gems. They decided to do some fancy stuff that is usless for casual comunity and almost usless for hardcore community (gear storage) and I dont know why. I guess they thought that their product must be diferent then arc but they didnt understand what are the good parts of arc.Amd many players I play with only bought qol updates for real money. Rest was for gold.

As a player with 31 toons the gear storage aspect of this saves me a ton of space in storage. I have had maxed storage since day 1 so this is a big QoL addition for me. Please don't speak for the community.

[ZDragon.3046]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@MoonT.6845 said:

@"Lottie.5370" said:

Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand

hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.

Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.

Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message."Yes we want this feature"Anet gives feature"No we dont want it"

Me and every player I know wanted build templates. In our mind build is traits+gear. We get traittemplates which are great and I am 100 percent supporting this. Only sad part is 24 limitations but that can be ok especialy when combining with second feature. Then we get trait panels and gear panels. Those 2 features were never asked for. Dont get me wrong, they can be nice addition for someone who need to swap between few strictly defined builds (such as condition soulbeast, power soulbeast and heal druid) but only reason why they are better then templates is gear storage. In everything else they are inferior or same as templates. And at least the last feature. Gear templates..... wait it isnt there. The main reason why I asked for TEMPLATES was to get gear templates. And they are not there but at the same time I am not allowed to use 3rd party program that had them. Briliant.

If they added oficial templates with unlimited amount of gearcodes stored on my computer, I would buy that system imidiatly. Right now I have no reason to buy anything because it doesnt have the function I need and I would need to swap some gear by hand anyway. Why not swap the rest too.

Edit: I am willing to buy everything if that ment I can use supperior system (arc). But since arc will not be supported, I will buy nothing.

I mean i can agree with you to some extent hereIf it does not fit your needs dont buy it. Which is exactly what ive been telling people. You are not being forced to pay. Yes you will lose some QoL from no longer having access to Arc Templates however you knew from the start that there could be a possibility that one day you might not be able to keep using a 3rd party addon when gw2 has always been super picky about 3rd party software.

Even if you didn't know about the agreement you knew that at any point in time anet could potentially say "this is no longer allowed" or that some day there might be a patch that "breaks it for good" or that "its creator might stop updating it" thats always the risk with 3rd party addons to games because they are not managed by the content creators of the game there is always a chance that they might not last.

Now you could argue with my last situation "But some one else could simply take on the arc title and continue to update it" Yes this could happen people have become very smart. This is likely could be the exact reason anet wants to keep everything server side now.

In the end im sorry the system does not fit your needs specifically as for its current design. But surely you understand it makes no sense for anet to take a loss on investment on something tons of people asked for even if this version was not the idea many had in mind due to how arc worked. Also that most game features are used to make money in some way or fashion this should not be a shock to anyone even more so for a game that charges no monthly fee.Mounts = Mount skinsMasteries = Require x packsetc etc

How ever i still think if it does not fit you needs then dont pay. I dont even plan to pay for this system. Im almost sure what they give fore free will be enough for me.

And that is kinda the problem. Most casual players will not pay because standard version is enough for them and more hardcore players will not pay because this system is focused on casuals. They missed free money by adding gear templates.

Now that i 100% do agree on because this is not the first or second time that this has happened.See new charr chair that dont fit charr (no communication on if this was a mistake, or if it will be fixed, or if there will be more attention going into the future)See forum suggestions for a motor cycle -ish roller mount skinSee multiple suggestions for specific parts of outfits to be sold as stand alone skins

All of which were missed opportunitiesIt boils down to anets biggest weakness the lack of cross communication. Be it vets or casuals the communication level has always been lacking with arenanet and its playerbase. This most recent balance patch is proof of that as well.

Like, i know players that will write personal bot that willdo the manual part of switching for them because official templates doesnt do what they want. Anet will not get money from those players. And if they find out and ban them they will not get money either.

Sadly i feel like most vets have already invested enough money where if you dont insert another dime for the rest of gw2's life time anet will have made enough off of you when it comes down to a single person. I know there are some people who have put thousands and i mean thousands of dollars into this game. Telling anet you wont pay now wont matter to them sadly. They already made several times more off a player who has done this than they would from the average player.

Still i think simply arguing for the use of arc and throwing insults at anets choices is not the way to get anet to see and or change the system to fit both casuals and vets who require tons on tons of build slots.

They could have made same system as arkh and sell it for 3000 gems. They decided to do some fancy stuff that is usless for casual comunity and almost usless for hardcore community (gear storage) and I dont know why. I guess they thought that their product must be diferent then arc but they didnt understand what are the good parts of arc.

As much as i hate to say it there is probably a reason why they didnt do this or could not do this.Ill just get the obvious one out of the way that most people would have the biggest issue with. What game company do you know just steals some one else's work then charges money for it without paying the creator. Further more people would still be here crying about how dare they be charged money for something that was free and is 100% the exact same thing. People would go on about how illegal this was and how anet should be sued for stealing someone's work.

Arc has been out for 2 years plenty of people have had time to peek inside of it and know its ins and outs like the back of their hands. If anet produced the same system there would be no telling how easily people would be able to bend and modify it to their own will. IF arc never was allowed or existed from the start anet possibly could have built the system more similarly to it.

[Astralporing.1957]

@ZDragon.3046 said:Thats not a garbage business practice if you never intended for that service to be part of your business in the first place what on earth are you talking about.Actually, they hoped to have it ready for initial GW2 launch. They just never managed to get to it (and one of the reasons for it was because the launch was rushed - we have Pandas to blame for that). And after launch many things that were supposed to be there but didn't get done due to rushed launch (like graphics engine performance optimization) just got abandoned for a loong time.

This feature was never intended to be part of guild wars 2 originally along with so many other features which likely include

• MountsMounts are a complicated subject. Yes, they did say at some point they won't be in the game at launch, and their attitude towards them later wasn't exactly positive (until they introduced them in PoF). On the other hand, mounts were mentioned as one of the features they wanted to introduce in GW1 (in Utopia) and couldn't due to engine limitations. So, mounts are one of the reasons for why we even have GW2 in the first place.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@susana.7814 said:

@yoni.7015 said:Why open another thread? There is an existing one.

Probably because people want to actually be heard.

Not an argument, then we'll have thousands of threads on every topic

[Ayakaru.6583]

@solemn.9608 said:

@susana.7814 said:

@"yoni.7015" said:Why open another thread? There is an existing one.

Probably because people want to actually be heard.Right on.

> @"Arenanet" said:

At release, each character will get three Build Template tabs, which will be preloaded with their existing equipped builds from PvE, PvP, and WvW. You can swap the contents of the Build Template tabs for use in any game mode or purchase more tabs from the Gem Store.No thanks. I am not going to pay for the full functionality of a function that is already available to everyone; because you took so long to make it that someone, on their own free time, already made a very well functioning build templates add-on with unlimited "tabs". I sincerely hope you don't plan on making the use of this add-on an offense.

I would urge "this is fine" voters to consider that just because you didn't use [omitted title] doesn't mean it wasn't incredibly useful and valuable to many in the gw2 community. You may be siding with a sizable injustice to portions of our community by saying "this is OK" (see footer note/edit)

I can think of another popular MMORPG that, instead of doing this, ended up incorporating add-ons in the game and encouraged making helpful/useful add-ons. You don't need to vouch for the add-on as professionals... but you simply just needed to allow it to exist. Instead, because you guys wanted to do it yourselves,

we're now paying for what we already had easy and consistent access to, because you wanted to monetize it.

Ok, so we get a little perk in saving inventory space, but all I want is to not have this be forced on me. I already have the functionality of build templates, if you disallow that, and enforce your build templates functionality, you are forcing me to buy the inventory slots gained by using your option. Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea. But I'm left with no choice but to give you money. Even if I'm willing to do that, I defy that on principle.

Mounts in WvW was one thing. We adjusted to it, even though we did not want to.If you make this pay-for-full-functionality I will lose faith that I shouldn't still have to begin with.

Taking a screenshot of this post & saving it. Why?

Well, you know how it is here.

edit: wording, and: note that if we are still allowed to use [omitted title] after this release, I won't mind so much. I can look past that easily, if this condition is met.

 

I am not fine with the model presented. It sounds like money grabbing for a key feature. I get they need compensation, but not this excessive.I am however fine with a new integrated model that i can actually use.No matter how much greater and better ArcDPS was, i couldn't use it because the game kept crashing.I prefer a single slice of regular cake over an entire pie that's making my stomach hurt.

[Zephire.8049]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:I am not fine with the model presented. It sounds like money grabbing for a key feature. I get they need compensation, but not this excessive.I am however fine with a new integrated model that i can actually use.No matter how much greater and better ArcDPS was, i couldn't use it because the game kept crashing.I prefer a single slice of regular cake over an entire pie that's making my stomach hurt.This is what it really comes down to.

The monetization aspect remains to be seen and we likely won't know the specifics until it's released. However, build and gear templates being in-game makes them accessible to far more people. Arc didn't work for everyone and required constant updates and not everyone is comfortable with the manual install. And good luck reporting a bug as a layperson.

There's a reason why plug-and-play software, hardware, and accessories are so popular even when it's possible to buy better versions for the same price (or cheaper!). It's far more convenient and not everyone wants to go to multiple places or fiddle around with things when what they want/need is easily provided and takes no work to learn or set up. That's pretty much Apple's entire shtick!

GW2 is Arenanet's playground. Sure the slide they've built may not be as impressive as the one they're replacing, but they actually built it into the foundation and with their name tied to it, they have to keep it safe and respond quickly if anyone gets hurt because they have far more liability than a person who required you to sign a waiver before using the previous slide.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:They could have made same system as arkh and sell it for 3000 gems. They decided to do some fancy stuff that is usless for casual comunity and almost usless for hardcore community (gear storage) and I dont know why. I guess they thought that their product must be diferent then arc but they didnt understand what are the good parts of arc.Amd many players I play with only bought qol updates for real money. Rest was for gold.

As a player with 31 toons the gear storage aspect of this saves me a ton of space in storage. I have had maxed storage since day 1 so this is a big QoL addition for me. Please don't speak for the community.

If you have maxed storage from day 1 you are not a cassual player. And if you have it maxed out I dont know why you need that much space anyway. But good for you.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

This should be a lesson to anyone asking a dev studio to implement a feature they can already get for free from a third party. Unlike third party modders, the studio will very likely try to fleece you for it.

I learnt that same lesson a long time ago from being involved in single player RPGs modding communities. I've seen devs trying to sell features that modders already offered for free. And the implementation was often worse than the third party.

[Zaraki.5784]

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:

You are right the correct analogy would beNeighbor allows you to use his wifi till you get your own internet service setup

2 years later

"What do you mean I cant use your wifi anymore? Yours was working just fine for free."Neighbor insist that it was only suppose to be temporary and that you are consuming his bandwidth and that you should get your own now that you are able to do so. He even goes as far to ask if you would like him to help get you started. He ask questions so he can point you at the service plan thats cost effective and one that will work for you needs."But yours is already there why cant i just use yours. I should be able to just keep using yours it works for me. No bob i dont care that your kids cant play candy crush. Whats the new password?"

HM - about analogy.

Let's say you live in a house paying a rent. You ask the owner for internet services and the answer is that he cannot offer you this. A friend is giving you internet for free.

2 years later

The owner tells you that your friend internet line is not allowed anymore in his house. Instead he will provide you internet from his company - now offering internet too. But, the internet connection provided is slower, with a smaler bandwith and it is not free. If the speed and band is not on your liking you can pay extra to upgrade it. But even so, at maximum capacity the circuit will be less performant than what you had for free before.

What you say? Time to find another

game

house?

But this current house has big rooms, a garden, hot water, electricity and many other things other houses may not have.Is a "not perfect internet line" enough of a reason to change house?