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How to fix Mirage


SeikeNz.3526

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I only semi-agree with you.Ambushes without IH are on the bad side. With IH some of them are good while others are still meh.That's why some of us were telling ANerf to make IH a minor, so ambushes become easier to balance.

Not sure what you mean sorry. From what i know IH doesn't change ambushes, it just makes clones use ambushes too (or am i wrong in that?), which are for Powermes clearly weaker than the Mesmers own ambush (for example even 3 gs clones together do less dmg than the Engi dodge trait what is range too and way less dmg than the warrior dodge trait), what is good, but on condi the clones ambushes are way too strong, that strong that a Condimesmer can more or less only clones let do the dmg and be defensive most of the fight. The problem starts with core clone normal autoattack already, condi clone autoattacks are way stronger than power dmg clone autoattack (what is like zero, they only do 1 dmg for reveal and proc reasons).No opinion about making IH baseline. Could be a good idea, depends on what Anet is doing to balance around that and what new major trait Mesmer gets for IH instead. But giving IH a cooldown or delete it, or give clones no ambush attacks at all or whatever balance suggestions i read until now would just lower the skillceiling for Powermirage and kill an intersting part of active gameplay. And why remove a trait when in the end only some ambushes are the problem and not all?

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@Daishi.6027 said:I’d be fine with this IF:Condi shatters are buffed making it the primary damage method.

Nomads endurance returns to 3 seconds.Critical Infusion returns to 5.Blinding dissipation returns to all shatters. (Maybe returns ineptitude back to illusions to discourage chaos synergy)Jaunts Goes back to 20 second recharge with 3 stacks.Illusionary Ambush cooldown is reduced by 15 seconds.And Portal is reverted.

You get to pick. Does Mesmer do lots of front loaded damage? Or does it survive?

Ppl complained about survivabulity more so than damage, now here we are.

Pick which one, as much as many of you probably would like it doesn’t get to do neither.

Frankly I would have preferred the clone spam damage got nerfed initially and we ONLY got the nerf to mirage cloak duration, and Evasive mirror.

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@Magolith.9412 said:imo they should leave all that kitten alone and just disable the evade frame of mirage cloak while CC'd. It would encourage smarter play and reduce survivability of mirage overall without being too heavy handed.

More or less where I'm at in terms of what should be done with mesmer. Condition Mesmer should have it's damage compressed away from racking up bleeds and conditions with clone auto attacking nonstop into something focused around a handful of very specific and lethal skill shots it wants to set up. The old school Carrion Ineptitude builds while far too front loaded with condition shatters were overall a healthier playstyle for the game as it's damage revolved around a handful of damaging skills and weren't running Deceptive Evasion so if you could consistently avoid those specific bursts you effectively negated 60% of the mirage's entire damage output.

Honestly Mirage's damage output is still mostly fine. I think the only nerfs that really needs to be done against Chaos Condi Mirage's damage is make it so clones from Deceptive Evasion don't spawn automatically doing their Ambush Attacks and halving the duration of the clone's Chaotic Vortex the way other Ambush Attacks apply to clones. And while Scepter 2's block is still mostly fine I think the actual counter attack it hit's people with should be a projectile rather than a near instantaneous pulse of damage with no limitation.

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@bravan.3876 said:

I only semi-agree with you.Ambushes without IH are on the bad side. With IH some of them are good while others are still meh.That's why some of us were telling ANerf to make IH a minor, so ambushes become easier to balance.

Not sure what you mean sorry. From what i know IH doesn't change ambushes, it just makes clones use ambushes too (or am i wrong in that?), which are for Powermes clearly weaker than the Mesmers own ambush (for example even 3 gs clones together do less dmg than the Engi dodge trait what is range too and way less dmg than the warrior dodge trait), what is good, but on condi the clones ambushes are way too strong, that strong that a Condimesmer can more or less only clones let do the dmg and be defensive most of the fight. The problem starts with core clone normal autoattack already, condi clone autoattacks are way stronger than power dmg clone autoattack (what is like zero, they only do 1 dmg for reveal and proc reasons).No opinion about making IH baseline. Could be a good idea, depends on what Anet is doing to balance around that and what new major trait Mesmer gets for IH instead. But giving IH a cooldown or delete it, or give clones no ambush attacks at all or whatever balance suggestions i read until now would just lower the skillceiling for Powermirage and kill an intersting part of active gameplay. And why remove a trait when in the end only some ambushes are the problem and not all?

Indeed it only makes clones do ambush.That's why without IH some ambushes are bad and with it are good, namely the condi ones.By making IH minor, clones' ambushes are always taken into account hence ambushes become easier to balance.

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@bravan.3876 said:

I only semi-agree with you.Ambushes without IH are on the bad side. With IH some of them are good while others are still meh.That's why some of us were telling ANerf to make IH a minor, so ambushes become easier to balance.

Not sure what you mean sorry. From what i know IH doesn't change ambushes, it just makes clones use ambushes too (or am i wrong in that?), which are for Powermes clearly weaker than the Mesmers own ambush (for example even 3 gs clones together do less dmg than the Engi dodge trait what is range too and way less dmg than the warrior dodge trait), what is good, but on condi the clones ambushes are way too strong, that strong that a Condimesmer can more or less only clones let do the dmg and be defensive most of the fight. The problem starts with core clone normal autoattack already, condi clone autoattacks are way stronger than power dmg clone autoattack (what is like zero, they only do 1 dmg for reveal and proc reasons).No opinion about making IH baseline. Could be a good idea, depends on what Anet is doing to balance around that and what new major trait Mesmer gets for IH instead. But giving IH a cooldown or delete it, or give clones no ambush attacks at all or whatever balance suggestions i read until now would just lower the skillceiling for Powermirage and kill an intersting part of active gameplay. And why remove a trait when in the end only some ambushes are the problem and not all?

He mean that most ambush are only efficient with clones.Basically burning an evade to staff or scepter ambush for only the mesmer don't worth it because nobody care about 2k telegraphied/ong casting condi.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I only semi-agree with you.Ambushes without IH are on the bad side. With IH some of them are good while others are still meh.That's why some of us were telling ANerf to make IH a minor, so ambushes become easier to balance.

Not sure what you mean sorry. From what i know IH doesn't change ambushes, it just makes clones use ambushes too (or am i wrong in that?), which are for Powermes clearly weaker than the Mesmers own ambush (for example even 3 gs clones together do less dmg than the Engi dodge trait what is range too and way less dmg than the warrior dodge trait), what is good, but on condi the clones ambushes are way too strong, that strong that a Condimesmer can more or less only clones let do the dmg and be defensive most of the fight. The problem starts with core clone normal autoattack already, condi clone autoattacks are way stronger than power dmg clone autoattack (what is like zero, they only do 1 dmg for reveal and proc reasons).No opinion about making IH baseline. Could be a good idea, depends on what Anet is doing to balance around that and what new major trait Mesmer gets for IH instead. But giving IH a cooldown or delete it, or give clones no ambush attacks at all or whatever balance suggestions i read until now would just lower the skillceiling for Powermirage and kill an intersting part of active gameplay. And why remove a trait when in the end only some ambushes are the problem and not all?

Indeed it only makes clones do ambush.That's why without IH some ambushes are bad and with it are good, namely the condi ones.By making IH minor, clones' ambushes are always taken into account hence ambushes become easier to balance.

I only semi-agree with you.Ambushes without IH are on the bad side. With IH some of them are good while others are still meh.That's why some of us were telling ANerf to make IH a minor, so ambushes become easier to balance.

Not sure what you mean sorry. From what i know IH doesn't change ambushes, it just makes clones use ambushes too (or am i wrong in that?), which are for Powermes clearly weaker than the Mesmers own ambush (for example even 3 gs clones together do less dmg than the Engi dodge trait what is range too and way less dmg than the warrior dodge trait), what is good, but on condi the clones ambushes are way too strong, that strong that a Condimesmer can more or less only clones let do the dmg and be defensive most of the fight. The problem starts with core clone normal autoattack already, condi clone autoattacks are way stronger than power dmg clone autoattack (what is like zero, they only do 1 dmg for reveal and proc reasons).No opinion about making IH baseline. Could be a good idea, depends on what Anet is doing to balance around that and what new major trait Mesmer gets for IH instead. But giving IH a cooldown or delete it, or give clones no ambush attacks at all or whatever balance suggestions i read until now would just lower the skillceiling for Powermirage and kill an intersting part of active gameplay. And why remove a trait when in the end only some ambushes are the problem and not all?

He mean that most ambush are only efficient with clones.Basically burning an evade to staff or scepter ambush for only the mesmer don't worth it because nobody care about 2k telegraphied/ong casting condi.

Ok understand.Yes i mean why not make it baseline, can't imagine anything speak against that atm.Still in general i think Condimes needs less passive clone dmg and more active ways of condi application. It also would be more fun to play, atm it might be effective but kind of boring or not? That is how i feel when playing it at least and i am not even that good on it.

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@bravan.3876 said:

I only semi-agree with you.Ambushes without IH are on the bad side. With IH some of them are good while others are still meh.That's why some of us were telling ANerf to make IH a minor, so ambushes become easier to balance.

Not sure what you mean sorry. From what i know IH doesn't change ambushes, it just makes clones use ambushes too (or am i wrong in that?), which are for Powermes clearly weaker than the Mesmers own ambush (for example even 3 gs clones together do less dmg than the Engi dodge trait what is range too and way less dmg than the warrior dodge trait), what is good, but on condi the clones ambushes are way too strong, that strong that a Condimesmer can more or less only clones let do the dmg and be defensive most of the fight. The problem starts with core clone normal autoattack already, condi clone autoattacks are way stronger than power dmg clone autoattack (what is like zero, they only do 1 dmg for reveal and proc reasons).No opinion about making IH baseline. Could be a good idea, depends on what Anet is doing to balance around that and what new major trait Mesmer gets for IH instead. But giving IH a cooldown or delete it, or give clones no ambush attacks at all or whatever balance suggestions i read until now would just lower the skillceiling for Powermirage and kill an intersting part of active gameplay. And why remove a trait when in the end only some ambushes are the problem and not all?

the reason why IH is a thing is becouse ambushes suck.why would I lockmyself on 1s animation to deal AT BEST 4k dmg ( staff ) that can be sidestepped, reflected,cleansed.warrior gets to do it without worrying abot reflect or clenses, cant be sidestepped, it also generates might and thus also heals. and its just a minor trait not the elite spec identity.

thing with ambushes are, they are different.IH absolutely changes the ambushes.Mesmers sword ambush does some damage and dazes, clone just dazes.GS ambush does good damage, clone ambush does low damage but not 0. about 600-800?Scepter applies half the duration for clones and full for mesmer. ( damage comes from bleed on crit since confusion is useless )Axe clones get reduced damage too.

As you can see, every single ambush clone attack was specifically nerfed to not be as good as the one mesmer has.exept staff. when you think about it clone ambush is better then mesmers ambush since it can apply bleed on crit, lul.

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:I will find it hilarious if Any listen to this. Then they will move the damage to the player character , because clones shouldn't be doing damage /s, and people will complain because they are still dying.

tell us how removing clone ambush will move the damage to player character, waiting forever for your response

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:I will find it hilarious if Any listen to this. Then they will move the damage to the player character , because clones shouldn't be doing damage /s, and people will complain because they are still dying.

tell us how removing clone ambush will move the damage to player character, waiting forever for your response

Because it's what Anet would do. The complaint is that the clones are doing damage and not the mesmer. Plus it is the offensive grandmaster.

They could, and likely would increase the amount of damage the players ambush does as a base or increase it based on the number of clones so the trait isn't a) trash and b) the spec isn't lacking damage as the more damage focused of the two elite specs mesmer has.

Even if they didn't move it to the trait the damage would end up somewhere else on the spec. People would still die and they would still complain because they are dying to mirage.

Most of the time when people complain about something and suggest ways to make it balance, very seldom is that the case. More often than not it's people suggesting some change to make the class a non-issue to them and their preferred playstyle or perceived level of skill or effectively completely remove the spec from the competitive PvP scene.

Literally even if mirage was made effectively dumpster tier as long as someone somewhere is losing to the spec, "mirage has never been nerfed", "anets favourite class" etc etc.

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@Aza.2105 said:A class can be fixed to not overperform when you can identify their weakness. What is Mirages weakness??

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@viquing.8254 said:Now the downside :1) Easy to LOS.2) Obvious animation.3) Clones destroyables.4) Using evade to attack and defense.

  • Only one breakstunt in a world where other class has minimum one or more 3 sec CC.
  • Weak condiclear if not taking mantra of resolution.
  • An obvious no def CD window. <= that's basically how I win my duel versus other mirages, you just have to count the two evade, then burst ; the first time he will scepter block, the second time he will get hit if he isn't doing op kitting.

Now I can ask you the same question, what is Mirages strengh ??

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I'm lazy and already made a poignant post about it before so will just quote that:

@apharma.3741 said:The problem with mirage is mirage cloak and it's existence, it nullifies balancing by cast time as you can effectively use your defence without interrupting it.

One of the problems with Chrono was always continuum split, likewise it in many ways nullified balance by cool down.

Are we seeing a pattern here? When you implement mechanics that circumvent balancing principles you create really obnoxious elite specs and they tend to be on mesmer because....who knows.

What mirage needs is taking back to the drawing board entirely. Wait not quite, mesmer as a concept needs taking back to the drawing board entirely, clones die to stray farts unless spammed in enough quantity that they and phantasms become a massive visual clutter making the whole thing annoying for people to fight in this low effort, low skill floor spam fiesta that the game has become. It's not a tenable class in it's current iteration, don't get me wrong I like the idea but it doesn't feel fun to play with (certainly without IP) or against for most people.

Core principles of mesmer identity:Boon manipulation - removal, giving, stealing.Trickster - Stealth/detarget.Budget Guardian in support - smaller area usually, stability, no aegis, good reflect and cleanses.Confusion damage - punishes skill spam but torment should be removed almost entirely.Interrupts - Always had a large amount of interrupt traits and CC for interrupting.

The problem with chrono was the idea of doubling up, through chrono phantasma and more importantly continuum split. They removed baseline IP as a nerf around the problem when the reality is they should have reworked the above 2 aspects.

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:I will find it hilarious if Any listen to this. Then they will move the damage to the player character , because clones shouldn't be doing damage /s, and people will complain because they are still dying.

tell us how removing clone ambush will move the damage to player character, waiting forever for your response

Because it's what Anet would do. The complaint is that the clones are doing damage and not the mesmer. Plus it is the offensive grandmaster.

They could, and likely would increase the amount of damage the players ambush does as a base or increase it based on the number of clones so the trait isn't a) trash and b) the spec isn't lacking damage as the more damage focused of the two elite specs mesmer has.

Even if they didn't move it to the trait the damage would end up somewhere else on the spec. People would still die and they would still complain because they are dying to mirage.

Most of the time when people complain about something and suggest ways to make it balance, very seldom is that the case. More often than not it's people suggesting some change to make the class a non-issue to them and their preferred playstyle or perceived level of skill or effectively completely remove the spec from the competitive PvP scene.

Literally even if mirage was made effectively dumpster tier as long as someone somewhere is losing to the spec, "mirage has never been nerfed", "anets favourite class" etc etc.

that's what you are saying lol, they only need to remove clone ambush, the clone can still have the evasion for more durability, they can still stack condi dmg, they just need to remove the out of limit condi stacking from ambush, the trait will still be useful since the clones will not die that easily, also mirage is not only infinite horizon, dune cloak is a very good trait but no one use its since IH make mirage op

The strength of mirage is the mirage cloak plus ambush but should be the strenght only of the character not the clones

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:I will find it hilarious if Any listen to this. Then they will move the damage to the player character , because clones shouldn't be doing damage /s, and people will complain because they are still dying.

tell us how removing clone ambush will move the damage to player character, waiting forever for your response

Because it's what Anet would do. The complaint is that the clones are doing damage and not the mesmer. Plus it is the offensive grandmaster.

They could, and likely would increase the amount of damage the players ambush does as a base or increase it based on the number of clones so the trait isn't a) trash and b) the spec isn't lacking damage as the more damage focused of the two elite specs mesmer has.

Even if they didn't move it to the trait the damage would end up somewhere else on the spec. People would still die and they would still complain because they are dying to mirage.

Most of the time when people complain about something and suggest ways to make it balance, very seldom is that the case. More often than not it's people suggesting some change to make the class a non-issue to them and their preferred playstyle or perceived level of skill or effectively completely remove the spec from the competitive PvP scene.

Literally even if mirage was made effectively dumpster tier as long as someone somewhere is losing to the spec, "mirage has never been nerfed", "anets favourite class" etc etc.

that's what you are saying lol, they only need to remove clone ambush, the clone can still have the evasion for more durability, they can still stack condi dmg, they just need to remove the out of limit condi stacking from ambush, the trait will still be useful since the clones will not die that easily, also mirage is not only infinite horizon, dune cloak is a very good trait but no one use its since IH make mirage op

The strength of mirage is the mirage cloak plus ambush but should be the strenght only of the character not the clones

you realize that removing IH nerfs condimes damage form ambushes by at least 50% and sometiles by 75% or more?do you realize that you propose a GRANDMASTER TRAIT to only make clones die less, right?

immagine same bias for other classes.go on warrior forum and propose 75% damage nerf to every single burst skill and see their reaction.

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@apharma.3741 said:I'm lazy and already made a poignant post about it before so will just quote that:

@apharma.3741 said:The problem with mirage is mirage cloak and it's existence, it nullifies balancing by cast time as you can effectively use your defence without interrupting it.

One of the problems with Chrono was always continuum split, likewise it in many ways nullified balance by cool down.

Are we seeing a pattern here? When you implement mechanics that circumvent balancing principles you create really obnoxious elite specs and they tend to be on mesmer because....who knows.

What mirage needs is taking back to the drawing board entirely. Wait not quite, mesmer as a concept needs taking back to the drawing board entirely, clones die to stray farts unless spammed in enough quantity that they and phantasms become a massive visual clutter making the whole thing annoying for people to fight in this low effort, low skill floor spam fiesta that the game has become. It's not a tenable class in it's current iteration, don't get me wrong I like the idea but it doesn't feel fun to play with (certainly without IP) or against for most people.

Core principles of mesmer identity:Boon manipulation - removal, giving, stealing.Trickster - Stealth/detarget.Budget Guardian in support - smaller area usually, stability, no aegis, good reflect and cleanses.Confusion damage - punishes skill spam but torment should be removed almost entirely.Interrupts - Always had a large amount of interrupt traits and CC for interrupting.

The problem with chrono was the idea of doubling up, through chrono phantasma and more importantly continuum split. They removed baseline IP as a nerf around the problem when the reality is they should have reworked the above 2 aspects.

yep, when i first saw chrono, looked at contin split and chronophantasma, I already knew why every single phantasm has to be shit.the fact that someone went with it is just hilarious.they could make csplit last like 3s, have 60s cd and reset only first 2 abilities you cast, instead of current clown fiesta where you throw every single long important cooldown like its nothing becouse CSPLIT makes it nothing. And becouse this is possible every 105s, chrono has to be utter shit for the remainder of csplit cd.

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I remember when anet had nerf "Elusive Mind" someone says here "now, ppl have just 1 choice, to play with "Infinite Horizon" and ppl will cry more and u'll regret.

You know what happen.....

But i have to admit that if i"m not concentrate, mirage gimme a headache in a fight, other wise, i just follow the clone who run and try to kill him asap before condi kills me.

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@viquing.8254 said:

@Aza.2105 said:A class can be fixed to not overperform when you can identify their weakness. What is Mirages weakness??

-

@viquing.8254 said:Now the downside :1) Easy to LOS.2) Obvious animation.3) Clones destroyables.4) Using evade to attack and defense.
  • Only one breakstunt in a world where other class has minimum one or more 3 sec CC.
  • Weak condiclear if not taking mantra of resolution.
  • An obvious no def CD window. <= that's basically how I win my duel versus other mirages, you just have to count the two evade, then burst ; the first time he will scepter block, the second time he will get hit if he isn't doing op kitting.

Now I can ask you the same question, what is Mirages strengh ??

None of those are weaknesses. 3 out of 4 can be applied to all classes. The 3rd which is destroy the clones is no longer a weakness due to the rate at which mesmer can just summon new clones.

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@Aza.2105 said:

@Aza.2105 said:A class can be fixed to not overperform when you can identify their weakness. What is Mirages weakness??

-

@viquing.8254 said:Now the downside :1) Easy to LOS.2) Obvious animation.3) Clones destroyables.4) Using evade to attack and defense.
  • Only one breakstunt in a world where other class has minimum one or more 3 sec CC.
  • Weak condiclear if not taking mantra of resolution.
  • An obvious no def CD window. <= that's basically how I win my duel versus other mirages, you just have to count the two evade, then burst ; the first time he will scepter block, the second time he will get hit if he isn't doing op kitting.

Now I can ask you the same question, what is Mirages strengh ??

None of those are weaknesses. 3 out of 4 can be applied to all classes. The 3rd which is destroy the clones is no longer a weakness due to the rate at which mesmer can just summon new clones.

"'all class" can pop 4 to 6k damage instantly with no prerequise while mesmer had to rely on fucking clones to do something but yeah it ins't a weakness at all."all class" have more temporisation uptime for most of them by yeah again everyone look what he want to look at."many class" have condiclear in their build by not even specing into it.Having a way longer animation cast time than other isn't a weakness ofc. A 1 sec cast staff ambush is as strong as thief/rev 0.25 or 0.5 cast under quickness.As far as I know, mirage is the only spec who have to choose between burning a dodge to survive or damage but it's not a weakness at all...

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You are asking for clones' dmg to be moved to mesmer. Do you even realise what's gonna happen ? Imagine rev being able to summon clones, go invisible, drop your target and get invuln with an option of taking portal. That's what you're asking for. Clones won't go anywhere, they may lose their dmg but not the screen clutter they cause. Mesmer is (un)balanced by being forced to rely on AI that can be cleaved/manipulated/predicted. Once you remove that, you're either going to have a deleted useless spec (chrono says hello btw) cuz you'll have to overnerf it or something that deals insane amounts of dmg, does not rely on AI for that and has an ability to make ur screen die from the clusterf###k caused by clones (which will probably retain soft cc or vuln/might stacking).

Every time you cry about something, you make it worse, cuz devs apparently listen to you. You asked for mesmer's mobility and EM to be nerfed ? No problem, nerfed, mesmers moved to the slower but burstier duelist playstyle. Wait, still too strong and shatters are pain ? Okay, here you go, nerfed. Mesmers moved to the semi-ranged option with power and confusion spikes making use of ambushes. Nerfs again and too much confusion, scepter aids and axe detarget broken? Not a big deal, gutted. Here you go, now have the full ranged aids spamming sustained cancer duelist that does not even use power stats anymore (cuz f##k you, you want cancer - you get it) and relies on boon upkeep just to be able to stay relevant. (1shot pony option included for free!). Just stop, please.

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@viquing.8254 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Aza.2105 said:A class can be fixed to not overperform when you can identify their weakness. What is Mirages weakness??

-

@viquing.8254 said:Now the downside :1) Easy to LOS.2) Obvious animation.3) Clones destroyables.4) Using evade to attack and defense.
  • Only one breakstunt in a world where other class has minimum one or more 3 sec CC.
  • Weak condiclear if not taking mantra of resolution.
  • An obvious no def CD window. <= that's basically how I win my duel versus other mirages, you just have to count the two evade, then burst ; the first time he will scepter block, the second time he will get hit if he isn't doing op kitting.

Now I can ask you the same question, what is Mirages strengh ??

None of those are weaknesses. 3 out of 4 can be applied to all classes. The 3rd which is destroy the clones is no longer a weakness due to the rate at which mesmer can just summon new clones.

"'all class" can pop 4 to 6k damage instantly with no prerequise while mesmer had to rely on kitten clones to do something but yeah it ins't a weakness at all."all class" have more temporisation uptime for most of them by yeah again everyone look what he want to look at."many class" have condiclear in their build by not even specing into it.Having a way longer animation cast time than other isn't a weakness ofc. A 1 sec cast staff ambush is as strong as thief/rev 0.25 or 0.5 cast under quickness.As far as I know, mirage is the only spec who have to choose between burning a dodge to survive or damage but it's not a weakness at all...

There is nothing you have said that illustrates mirage weakness. You continue to name the same thing each other class has. I don't know how long you've been playing this game but everyone has to choose between dodging to survive or doing damage. Maybe you should try playing other classes to broaden your perspective of the game.

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@Aza.2105 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Aza.2105 said:A class can be fixed to not overperform when you can identify their weakness. What is Mirages weakness??

-

@viquing.8254 said:Now the downside :1) Easy to LOS.2) Obvious animation.3) Clones destroyables.4) Using evade to attack and defense.
  • Only one breakstunt in a world where other class has minimum one or more 3 sec CC.
  • Weak condiclear if not taking mantra of resolution.
  • An obvious no def CD window. <= that's basically how I win my duel versus other mirages, you just have to count the two evade, then burst ; the first time he will scepter block, the second time he will get hit if he isn't doing op kitting.

Now I can ask you the same question, what is Mirages strengh ??

None of those are weaknesses. 3 out of 4 can be applied to all classes. The 3rd which is destroy the clones is no longer a weakness due to the rate at which mesmer can just summon new clones.

"'all class" can pop 4 to 6k damage instantly with no prerequise while mesmer had to rely on kitten clones to do something but yeah it ins't a weakness at all."all class" have more temporisation uptime for most of them by yeah again everyone look what he want to look at."many class" have condiclear in their build by not even specing into it.Having a way longer animation cast time than other isn't a weakness ofc. A 1 sec cast staff ambush is as strong as thief/rev 0.25 or 0.5 cast under quickness.As far as I know, mirage is the only spec who have to choose between burning a dodge to survive or damage but it's not a weakness at all...

There is nothing you have said that illustrates mirage weakness. You continue to name the same thing each other class has. I don't know how long you've been playing this game but everyone has to choose between dodging to survive or doing damage. Maybe you should try playing other classes to broaden your perspective of the game.

or mb you should be more specific with your question. you asked MIRAGE,so I ask WHAT MIRAGE, condi? hybrid? mantra? janky wonky tank? then I will give you an answear.

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@Kumouta.4985 said:i mean, it isn't very fun to have to dodge everything or get 9 stacks of every damaging condition on me from like 2 button presses by the mirage, so i'm personally all for it getting every nerf possible. I don't have any problems with fighting the class in particular, but from what dmg it does with such ease and its stupid evade/invuln uptime it still seems way overtuned compared to, say, an ele who can only stack like 11 burns in a second but has to use pretty much all their skills for it and barely has a cover condi. I do think that actually being able to kill the clones like i would be able to against a normal non-broken mesmer would remedy its imbalancedness pretty well.

Your complaint is you have to dodge? How do you deal with other professions?Also, ele hasn't had a meta build in what feels like years. You seem to want something easy to deal with, rather than competitive.

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@Aza.2105 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Aza.2105 said:A class can be fixed to not overperform when you can identify their weakness. What is Mirages weakness??

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@viquing.8254 said:Now the downside :1) Easy to LOS.2) Obvious animation.3) Clones destroyables.4) Using evade to attack and defense.
  • Only one breakstunt in a world where other class has minimum one or more 3 sec CC.
  • Weak condiclear if not taking mantra of resolution.
  • An obvious no def CD window. <= that's basically how I win my duel versus other mirages, you just have to count the two evade, then burst ; the first time he will scepter block, the second time he will get hit if he isn't doing op kitting.

Now I can ask you the same question, what is Mirages strengh ??

None of those are weaknesses. 3 out of 4 can be applied to all classes. The 3rd which is destroy the clones is no longer a weakness due to the rate at which mesmer can just summon new clones.

"'all class" can pop 4 to 6k damage instantly with no prerequise while mesmer had to rely on kitten clones to do something but yeah it ins't a weakness at all."all class" have more temporisation uptime for most of them by yeah again everyone look what he want to look at."many class" have condiclear in their build by not even specing into it.Having a way longer animation cast time than other isn't a weakness ofc. A 1 sec cast staff ambush is as strong as thief/rev 0.25 or 0.5 cast under quickness.As far as I know, mirage is the only spec who have to choose between burning a dodge to survive or damage but it's not a weakness at all...

There is nothing you have said that illustrates mirage weakness. You continue to name the same thing each other class has. I don't know how long you've been playing this game but everyone has to choose between dodging to survive or doing damage. Maybe you should try playing other classes to broaden your perspective of the game.

?? Maybe play the game ? it's been a long time now that metaclass can do damage and survive.Now I open metabattle, for curiosity, what are the weakness of :

  • thief
  • fb
  • rev
  • holo
  • sb

Describe me please because if you want to feed me with no content you can but I will never ending post asking more details.What I wrote are mesmer weakness in general, mirage included. And no other class hasn't the same. But you can continue dreaming about the mirage op spec with no weakness if you want.

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