Let's talk mount skin bundles

[snh.7091]

There's the Branded Mount Skins bundle, which consist of 5 skins, one for each mount, excluding the Skyscale and Warclaw.

why?

We have the Warclaw pack, that consists of 5... err... 3 cool skins, and the remaining 2 are not even skins. They are the same appearance as the default skin.

wth?

This is what they cost, respectively,

If there are new mount skins from the same collection, like the Branded one,

why

are they sold separately (?), and not included to existing bundles?

[nerfworthy.9618]

Yeah, I don't really get the Warclaw bundle. I suppose all you can do is talk with your wallet and not buy it. :)

[kharmin.7683]

@"Inoki.6048" said:There's the Branded Mount Skins bundle, which consist of 5 skins, one for each mount, excluding the Skyscale and Warclaw.

why?

We have the Warclaw pack, that consists of 5... err... 3 cool skins, and the remaining 2 are not even skins. They are the same appearance as the default skin.

wth?

This is what they cost, respectively,

If there are new mount skins from the same collection, like the Branded one,

why

are they sold separately (?), and not included to existing bundles?

They said way back that they would not add to the bundles.

[Danikat.8537]

When the branded pack was originally released the warclaw (and the roller beetle and skyscale) didn't exist, so it had a skin for each mount. And some people complained that they had to pay for the griffon skin even though they didn't have the griffon and had no intention of unlocking it.

I suspect they didn't update it (and the other 5-packs) to include the new mounts for two reasons: 1) some people probably have no intention of getting the warclaw/beetle/skyscale and wouldn't want to pay for those skins any more than they/others wanted to pay for the griffon.2) Anet didn't want to introduce dynamic pricing (not sure why) and people who had already bought the pack definitely wouldn't want to buy it again.

As for why they sell skins for the warclaw (and skyscale) as a bundle instead of individually I think it's simple: people will pay for it, and end up spending more than if they sold skins individually, even if they were 1,200 gems each like a select licence.

I agree it's not a great system for players. I haven't got the warclaw skin pack yet because I only want 2 skins (Vanguard and Branded) and I won't spend more than 800 gems for a single skin, so I'm waiting for it to be reduced to 1,600...which hasn't happend yet. It means I'm missing a branded warclaw from my set, but I'm also missing a branded bettle still so it's not like I can complete the set anyway.

(Also for what it's worth one of the warclaw skins I like from that pack is the Vanguard skin - which looks like the normal warclaw. I like having the option to have a normal looking mount but with 4 dye channels so I can customise it to my character.)

[hugo.4705]

Easy fix.1~They remove the current packs (exo, branded, awakened, cozy, spooky and so on....)2~They re-add it with beetle, warclaw and skyscale like living story episodes package= The price adjust itself considering what you have already unlocked.3~The buyers who bought the first pack aren't screwed, they now have the other mounts.4~You could have a sale depending on the mount you haven't unlocked so still 2000 for the 5 core. But you have to spend 1200 more gems for the others once you unlocked them.

Through, yeah it doesn't solve the "I just want warclaw/beetle/skyscale" issue but it solves all the others.

OR, dunno if it's possible, it's shown on gemstore as a checklist where you choose each mount you want, increasing 400 gems per tick.

[Linken.6345]

@"hugo.4705" said:Easy fix.1~They remove the current packs (exo, branded, awakened, cozy, spooky and so on....)2~They re-add it with beetle, warclaw and skyscale like living story episodes package= The price adjust itself considering what you have already unlocked.3~The buyers who bought the first pack aren't screwed, they now have the other mounts.4~You could have a sale depending on the mount you haven't unlocked so still 2000 for the 5 core. But you have to spend 1200 more gems for the others once you unlocked them.

Through, yeah it doesn't solve the "I just want warclaw/beetle/skyscale" issue but it solves all the others.

OR, dunno if it's possible, it's shown on gemstore as a checklist where you choose each mount you want, increasing 400 gems per tick.

Yea but then they only get 400 for each branded skin instead of 2k from the hardcore spenders.

[hugo.4705]

@Linken.6345 said:

@"hugo.4705" said:Easy fix.1~They remove the current packs (exo, branded, awakened, cozy, spooky and so on....)2~They re-add it with beetle, warclaw and skyscale like living story episodes package= The price adjust itself considering what you have already unlocked.3~The buyers who bought the first pack aren't screwed, they now have the other mounts.4~You could have a sale depending on the mount you haven't unlocked so still 2000 for the 5 core. But you have to spend 1200 more gems for the others once you unlocked them.

Through, yeah it doesn't solve the "I just want warclaw/beetle/skyscale" issue but it solves all the others.

OR, dunno if it's possible, it's shown on gemstore as a checklist where you choose each mount you want, increasing 400 gems per tick.

Yea but then they only get 400 for each branded skin instead of 2k from the hardcore spenders.

Exactly, but that's the core of the issue, they release a 5 skins pack (2000 gems) so each skin, so each mount worth 400 gems. For mount licences, 1 skin = 400 gems. How the 2000 gems for 1 mount can be justified??!! Eventually 800-1000 because more work but 2000?

They do nothing to earn more frankly, releasing 5 warclaws, 3 are identical, 1 is branded, 1 unique.

Branded pack is okay. But putting branded warclaw apart in a 2000 pack is a bad move. (For all branded players...)

[draconicrose.6213]

I agree. As someone who snatched up the branded bundle asap I wish I had some way of getting the other branded mounts, even if it meant paying some more.

I wish they'd sell mounts like gliders, but with fancier mounts being more expensive. Maybe have the bundles anyway, but also allow people to buy the skins individually.

And while we're at it, please let me buy $5 worth of gems! ?

[Astralporing.1957]

@kharmin.7683 said:They said way back that they would not add to the bundles.Of course they wouldn't. Why would they, if they could just sell them separately for additional money.

[sidecarpilot.3468]

Because money.I'm ok with the 5 mount packs personally (raptor, Springer, skimmer, jackal, griffon). And I can understand why they did not add the new skins to thoose packs and can even understand why they wouldn't do what Op suggested. What I can't understand is why they wouldn't give us the ability to buy single or even random skins of the 2k packs (skyscale and warclaw), I would buy singles, but I'm not buying the pack. But j guess some people do.

[kharmin.7683]

@sidecarpilot.3468 said:Because money.I'm ok with the 5 mount packs personally (raptor, Springer, skimmer, jackal, griffon). And I can understand why they did not add the new skins to thoose packs and can even understand why they wouldn't do what Op suggested. What I can't understand is why they wouldn't give us the ability to buy single or even random skins of the 2k packs (skyscale and warclaw), I would buy singles, but I'm not buying the pack. But j guess some people do.

You answered your own question: Because money.

[Danikat.8537]

@sidecarpilot.3468 said:Because money.I'm ok with the 5 mount packs personally (raptor, Springer, skimmer, jackal, griffon). And I can understand why they did not add the new skins to thoose packs and can even understand why they wouldn't do what Op suggested. What I can't understand is why they wouldn't give us the ability to buy single or even random skins of the 2k packs (skyscale and warclaw), I would buy singles, but I'm not buying the pack. But j guess some people do.

I bought the skyscale pack. My personal rule is that I'll spent up to 800 gems for a skin, and I knew I liked and would use ar least 3 of them (branded, bioluminescent and caldera) - which meant I'd be paying 666 gems per skin so it was an acceptable price for me.

But I didn't buy the warclaw pack for the same reason - I only liked 2 skins so that would be 1,000 gems per skin, putting it out of my price range. (Although if it's ever reduced to 1,600 gems or less I will buy it.) So for me the packs are not a total deal-breaker but they do make it less likely that I'll buy skins. Same with the licences. I won't buy an entire set unless I like enough to justify the cost (7 skins, if there's 15 in the set), I won't buy just a few 400 gem licences because I don't buy RNG items and I won't buy select licences unless they're reduced to 800 gems or less. So apart from when I got the Istani Isles mounts (where I bought all of them) I have to wait for the select licences to go on sale before I can buy mount skins, and I'm sure I've gotten fewer than I would have otherwise as a result of that.

But it wouldn't surprise me if there are plenty of people who don't think about it that much and end up spending more because of this system, especially if they buy the RNG licences hoping to get lucky. I don't like that Anet do that, but since even having the select licences is a compromise I think it's unlikely we're going to get anything better from them any time soon.

[Ol Nik.2518]

@hugo.4705 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@hugo.4705 said:Easy fix.1~They remove the current packs (exo, branded, awakened, cozy, spooky and so on....)2~They re-add it with beetle, warclaw and skyscale like living story episodes package= The price adjust itself considering what you have already unlocked.3~The buyers who bought the first pack aren't screwed, they now have the other mounts.4~You could have a sale depending on the mount you haven't unlocked so still 2000 for the 5 core. But you have to spend 1200 more gems for the others once you unlocked them.

Through, yeah it doesn't solve the "I just want warclaw/beetle/skyscale" issue but it solves all the others.

OR, dunno if it's possible, it's shown on gemstore as a checklist where you choose each mount you want, increasing 400 gems per tick.

Yea but then they only get 400 for each branded skin instead of 2k from the hardcore spenders.

Exactly, but that's the core of the issue, they release a 5 skins pack (2000 gems) so each skin, so each mount worth 400 gems. For mount licences, 1 skin = 400 gems. How the 2000 gems for 1 mount can be justified??!! Eventually 800-1000 because more work but 2000?

They do nothing to earn more frankly, releasing 5 warclaws, 3 are identical, 1 is branded, 1 unique.

Branded pack is okay. But putting branded warclaw apart in a 2000 pack is a bad move. (For all branded players...)

It makes sense from a business point of view. The majority of people do not buy skin bundles for all skins in the bundle (with rare exceptions). They buy it for 1-2 skins. Therefore, spreading a themed series of skins over several different bundles without an option to buy individual skins increases revenue.

Branded skins are not the worst example, by the way. Take a look at primeval (4 skins in 3 different skin packs with the rest probably being spread among future mount skin packs) or star skins (7 skins in 6 different skin packs!). You can buy select licences for these, but they cost 1200 gems each.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Keep in mind; the only reason Mount Skins are offered at 400 Gems is they are part of a bundle, or are RNG. One can't really say, these Mount Skins are 400 Gems (or worth 400 Gems) or otherwise there would not be Mount Select Licenses at 1200 Gems.
In other words, there's a reason one can acquire one (1) Mount Skin for 400 Gems.

[Erasculio.2914]

@Danikat.8537 said:I suspect they didn't update it (and the other 5-packs) to include the new mounts for two reasons: 1) some people probably have no intention of getting the warclaw/beetle/skyscale and wouldn't want to pay for those skins any more than they/others wanted to pay for the griffon

That argument contradict this one:

@Danikat.8537 said:As for why they sell skins for the warclaw (and skyscale) as a bundle instead of individually I think it's simple: people will pay for it, and end up spending more than if they sold skins individually, even if they were 1,200 gems each like a select licence.

You're saying that ArenaNet wouldn't want to make players buy skins they don't want (for warclaw/beetle/etc) when they buy a skin pack, and that ArenaNet wants to make people buy skins they don't want when they buy the warclaw or the skyscale skin pack.

Let's be honest - a lot of ArenaNet's store offerings are based on making people buy things they don't want in order to get what they want. See the loot boxes, the dye kits, the random mount skin licences, and etc.

I think the reason they went from packs with a single skin for all mounts to packs with multiple skins for the same mount is simple: people often don't buy more than one skin for a single mount. By offering skins for all mounts in a single pack, many players would just buy that pack and no further skins. By offering skins for a single mount, though, ArenaNet ensures that people buy multiple skins for the same mount, and, in order to have at least one skin for each mount, people would have to buy multiple packs (one per mount).

It's even worse for players than the old packs. But that's how ArenaNet's monetization works (see the build templates).

[Danikat.8537]

@Ol Nik.2518 said:

@hugo.4705 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@hugo.4705 said:Easy fix.1~They remove the current packs (exo, branded, awakened, cozy, spooky and so on....)2~They re-add it with beetle, warclaw and skyscale like living story episodes package= The price adjust itself considering what you have already unlocked.3~The buyers who bought the first pack aren't screwed, they now have the other mounts.4~You could have a sale depending on the mount you haven't unlocked so still 2000 for the 5 core. But you have to spend 1200 more gems for the others once you unlocked them.

Through, yeah it doesn't solve the "I just want warclaw/beetle/skyscale" issue but it solves all the others.

OR, dunno if it's possible, it's shown on gemstore as a checklist where you choose each mount you want, increasing 400 gems per tick.

Yea but then they only get 400 for each branded skin instead of 2k from the hardcore spenders.

Exactly, but that's the core of the issue, they release a 5 skins pack (2000 gems) so each skin, so each mount worth 400 gems. For mount licences, 1 skin = 400 gems. How the 2000 gems for 1 mount can be justified??!! Eventually 800-1000 because more work but 2000?

They do nothing to earn more frankly, releasing 5 warclaws, 3 are identical, 1 is branded, 1 unique.

Branded pack is okay. But putting branded warclaw apart in a 2000 pack is a bad move. (For all branded players...)

It makes sense from a business point of view. The majority of people do not buy skin bundles for all skins in the bundle (with rare exceptions). They buy it for 1-2 skins. Therefore, spreading a themed series of skins over several different bundles without an option to buy individual skins increases revenue.

Branded skins are not the worst example, by the way. Take a look at primeval (4 skins in 3 different skin packs with the rest probably being spread among future mount skin packs) or star skins (7 skins in 6 different skin packs!). You can buy select licences for these, but they cost 1200 gems each.

I sometimes wonder if Anet intended things like the primeval skins to be seen as a set in the same way as the 5-packs, at least when they started. Or if it was an artist designing a one-off mount with an effect which they or other artists then started copying to other mounts. I know I didn't think when I got the Istani Isles mounts that eventually there might be a full set of primeval mounts, or that I'd want them if there was. (And it was only really in the run up to Halloween that I started wishing there was a primeval raptor, I'd love a ghost raptor for the labyrinth but I don't like the one with the silly wings.)

I have to admit I'm guilty of reinforcing the idea that those reoccuring themes are a set by talking about them like that on this forum, and if by now Anet aren't aware that some players will want all of them then they're not paying attention. But I'd like to find out if it started off like that.

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:I suspect they didn't update it (and the other 5-packs) to include the new mounts for two reasons: 1) some people probably have no intention of getting the warclaw/beetle/skyscale and wouldn't want to pay for those skins any more than they/others wanted to pay for the griffon

That argument contradict this one:

@Danikat.8537 said:As for why they sell skins for the warclaw (and skyscale) as a bundle instead of individually I think it's simple: people will pay for it, and end up spending more than if they sold skins individually, even if they were 1,200 gems each like a select licence.

You're saying that ArenaNet wouldn't want to make players buy skins they don't want (for warclaw/beetle/etc) when they buy a skin pack, and that ArenaNet wants to make people buy skins they don't want when they buy the warclaw or the skyscale skin pack.

Let's be honest - a lot of ArenaNet's store offerings are based on making people buy things they don't want in order to get what they want. See the loot boxes, the dye kits, the random mount skin licences, and etc.

I think the reason they went from packs with a single skin for all mounts to packs with multiple skins for the same mount is simple: people often don't buy more than one skin for a single mount. By offering skins for all mounts in a single pack, many players would just buy that pack and no further skins. By offering skins for a single mount, though, ArenaNet ensures that people buy multiple skins for the same mount, and, in order to have at least one skin for each mount, people would have to buy multiple packs (one per mount).

It's even worse for players than the old packs. But that's how ArenaNet's monetization works (see the build templates).

No, I'm saying there's a difference for customers between buying a skin you don't really like but could use and buying a skin you will never use because you have no intention of ever unlocking the mount it's for. I think Anet is a business and will do whatever they can to get more money from us without going too far into unethical or heavy-handed sales tactics, and then only because that will push customers away.

It's kind of like when I set up my phone and internet contract. I turned down the bundle with sports channels on TV even though it was the best value for the stuff included because I have never wanted to watch sports at home so it'd be a waste of money for me, but I took the one with discounted calls in the evening because I probably will use my landline in the evening sometimes. Same idea with skins. I bought the skyscale pack, including the 2 skins I wouldn't have chosen because I might use them (and did end up using them, if only on alts I don't play much). But if I didn't have the warclaw, skyscale and beetle and I was looking at paying 3,200 gems for a pack of skins for all 8 mounts (or 2,560 with a 20% discount) knowing almost half would be completely useless for me I'd probably decide it's not worth the price and skip the entire bundle.

I'd be interested to know how many players would buy just a single skin for each mount, given the choice (say for example if all skins were in the store individually for the same price, so everyone could get just the ones they wanted). I know I'd want at least two for each mount - one normal one and one unusual one, and probably more depending on how they look. I have 11 characters, each with their own colour scheme and 'theme' so even with the ability to dye them I'm not going to find one mount skin which works for all of them. (I tried that when I only had the branded pack, I spent a lot of time trying to hide the branded effect and make them look like spikier versions of normal mounts but it never really worked.)

(Edit: I just looked through the gallery of mount skins on the Wiki and I think if I could pick freely from the current selection, paying no more than 800 gems for each skin, I'd get 4 raptors, 5 springers, skimmers, jackals and griffons, 3 beetles, 2 warclaws and 3 skyscales. My current count in-game is 5 raptors, 4 springers, 5 skimmers and jackals, 6 griffons, 2 beetles, 0 warclaws, and 5 skyscales. Although it's difficult to compare, because if they'd been released in the same order I'd then have ended up buying some skins and regretting it later when a better one came out - for example the Savannah Stripetail is my favourite 'normal' springer, but it's also the most recent.)

[hugo.4705]

Note that's sure will buy a pack just for few skins within it, by opposition some like me are buying a pack because they like all mounts skins within it. I picked branded, could have used exo suit, awakened, spooky... since each mount was interesting for me I've paid 400 gems each. The licences were another bad move for making more money where they shouldn't. Don't remember the popping hateful thread about predatory rng, cost etc?I don't remember seeing a big rant post about mount packs apart warclaw.

I say it again, my exo pack 2000, 400 per mount, will not pay 6000 gems for the three remaining ones, joke has ended.

Licences started a dangerous path, it will became worse with time.They are happy because some are paying 2000 skins + outpriced contract and packages at 3000+

Remove them, they will be annoyed and be forced to lower mount prices.

So currently, yeah nice regarding business, bad for players who just want to complete a set.

[NYG.2568]

Hear that sound??? $Cha-Chingggg$ it's like money in the bank...

[MokahTGS.7850]

The only thing that will change what is happening in the Gem store is players not buying gems. You are seeing these things because people buy gems, they buy skins, they buy skin packs. Your wallet talks...this forum does not.

[Teratus.2859]

I collect the branded mounts too, still waiting for my Beetle :(

It does bother me severely that there are not more themed sets for all the mounts.Better yet add a second set, Branded Mounts II which would have only the new mounts in them.

I do love mount skins in Gw2 and have spent my fair share on them but I'll pull no punches when I say this.They are an absolute kitten mess with how they've been implemented.. and that does bother me a lot when i'm after a specific theme like Branded or Exalted etc

[Ol Nik.2518]

@Erasculio.2914 said:I think the reason they went from packs with a single skin for all mounts to packs with multiple skins for the same mount is simple: people often don't buy more than one skin for a single mount.

I do not think this is the case. Judging from the number of skins in the gem store and frequent introduction of new mount skins, they sell like hotcakes. I also believe that since GW2's endgame is fashion wars, many players buy multiple skins for a single mount because it is incredibly hard to make one skin fit thematically every single character on an account.

[Ol Nik.2518]

@"Danikat.8537" said:I sometimes wonder if Anet intended things like the primeval skins to be seen as a set in the same way as the 5-packs, at least when they started. Or if it was an artist designing a one-off mount with an effect which they or other artists then started copying to other mounts. I know I didn't think when I got the Istani Isles mounts that eventually there might be a full set of primeval mounts, or that I'd want them if there was. (And it was only really in the run up to Halloween that I started wishing there was a primeval raptor, I'd love a ghost raptor for the labyrinth but I don't like the one with the silly wings.)

I have to admit I'm guilty of reinforcing the idea that those reoccuring themes are a set by talking about them like that on this forum, and if by now Anet aren't aware that some players will want all of them then they're not paying attention. But I'd like to find out if it started off like that.

It can be that those 'themed' sets started as individual skins, but were expanded to sets due to popular demand (I would assume that ArenaNet has some statistics showing skin usage patterns and popularity). I think that it is more probable than sets from the very beginning considering that only star skins were included in almost all mount skin bundles. All others are released somewhat randomly, almost as a reaction to people's requests. I wish the developers let us know more details. I like some of those sets and would want to complete them.

No matter how it started, there is a pattern of expanding those themed sets: There are 10 of them now in different stages of completion.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

I bought one of these warclaw packs be cause I like the embermane skin. 2k is really a high price for that I only use one skin, but I can afford it. That's it: people pay for it. The single 2k skins are inofficially diclared as 'premium' skins and that's why they are 2k. It's really very expensive, you can see how desperately they look for money.

But this habit is getting more and more common. Back in the 1990ies and 2000s there were free updates for games. Later they charged for some fluff and now people are 'trained' to pay a vast amount for ridiculous skins. I am also a victim of this.

[Dante.1508]

I'd buy the EXO pack, c'mon GW2

[snh.7091]

Also, I'll never understand the mentality of refusing to buy a single bundle because it contains a skin of a mount you don't plan to get (at this point in time). It's important to consider the fact that one day you may want to. This shortsightedness of people is... typical on these forums, to say the least. No one's forcing anyone to use a particular skin, but it's always a nice to have.

Thus, some people complain when they get something extra (can you imagine?) because they want something specific instead, but it never worked this way. A collection is a collection, which is also why it's so upsetting when items from one collection are distributed as part of different collections and one has to spend more than acceptable sums for these pixels.