Yet another condi thief thread

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:@Leonidrex.5649

Holos are more of a pubstomper build in ranked than anything else. I'm not saying that they don't have several skills/traits that should be nerfed, but there are plenty of ways for every class to fight against them. On that note, you say you play several classes but which ones are you the best at/main?

Also, aren't you fairly new to the game? Why do you speak so much on balance if you are relatively inexperienced?

Im best at mesmer since its my main, I also do rather well on condi thief and hybrid ( i think its just broken ) and do good on warrior ( dont know what im doing war is just overpowered )you dont have to be an expert to know that mayby after months of playing mesmer i should become better and better at it right? then i first tried warrior and it was easy mode.Played this game for around half a year? but I have been playing other competitive games for 8-10 years and its not too hard to notice whats clearly overperforming or not.If you want "veterans" to speak for pvp then you will have 5 people talking max and thats it. And then there will just be bias all around that you have shown.For me personally condi thief doesnt matter much, I only play it to troll around when i dont feel like trying and wanna get quick win.and on my main condi or any other thief doesnt change much since you lose to thiefs anyways.

So all these classes are OP but mesmer and more so mirage isnt? Or do u think mirage is op to? Just curious.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:No one appears to be listening. How did we get the CI nerf? This game is broke af.

CI stoped people from being able to react and paly at all.Condi theif still allows a person time to react and make a play... simple really.

That said condi theif is nuts but ive never not had a chance to retaliate unlike with mirage CI which did not allow this due to daze + immobilize at the same time.

They certainly are not easy to kill or catch but at least i can clear the condi and not just instantly die like when fighting CI mirage...

Does this cover your question?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:@Leonidrex.5649

Holos are more of a pubstomper build in ranked than anything else. I'm not saying that they don't have several skills/traits that should be nerfed, but there are plenty of ways for every class to fight against them. On that note, you say you play several classes but which ones are you the best at/main?

Also, aren't you fairly new to the game? Why do you speak so much on balance if you are relatively inexperienced?

Im best at mesmer since its my main, I also do rather well on condi thief and hybrid ( i think its just broken ) and do good on warrior ( dont know what im doing war is just overpowered )you dont have to be an expert to know that mayby after months of playing mesmer i should become better and better at it right? then i first tried warrior and it was easy mode.Played this game for around half a year? but I have been playing other competitive games for 8-10 years and its not too hard to notice whats clearly overperforming or not.If you want "veterans" to speak for pvp then you will have 5 people talking max and thats it. And then there will just be bias all around that you have shown.For me personally condi thief doesnt matter much, I only play it to troll around when i dont feel like trying and wanna get quick win.and on my main condi or any other thief doesnt change much since you lose to thiefs anyways.

So all these classes are OP but mesmer and more so mirage isnt? Or do u think mirage is op to? Just curious.

I think mirage is bad but cancerous and should be remade. Its made in a way that it will ALWAYS piss off people.Immagine scenario where your ability deals 8-10k dmg ( thats most classes ) and mirage where he hits for 2-16k. the average hit is the same but the inconsistency pisses off both sides.I personally dont like mirage :/

[bravan.3876]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Holo is broken but i prefer to fight them over any Condithief. It is insane how low skill rewarding Condithief is.

Meanwhile dp is....

You have a problem with dp power Thief? :scream: As long as not played with bound it is one of the very few builds left in this game i have respect for...

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:No one appears to be listening. How did we get the CI nerf? This game is broke af.

CI stoped people from being able to react and paly at all.Condi theif still allows a person time to react and make a play... simple really.

That said condi theif is nuts but ive never not had a chance to retaliate unlike with mirage CI which did not allow this due to daze + immobilize at the same time.

They certainly are not easy to kill or catch but at least i can clear the condi and not just instantly die like when fighting CI mirage...

Does this cover your question?

At least the Mesmer needed to interrupt, Condithief doesn't need to care for anything. Easy to hit instant teleports and dodgechaining what also applies condis when in range of any skill. CI was hard to beat in its retardedness but Condithief managed to win in that regard.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Holo is broken but i prefer to fight them over any Condithief. It is insane how low skill rewarding Condithief is.

Meanwhile dp is....

You have a problem with dp power Thief? :scream: As long as not played with bound it is one of the very few builds left in this game i have respect for...

Yeah cuz it takes way out playing ur opponent to be successful and above all is usually a free kill for most decent players cuz its underpowered. What's not to like about it from a non thief main point of view lol

[bravan.3876]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Holo is broken but i prefer to fight them over any Condithief. It is insane how low skill rewarding Condithief is.

Meanwhile dp is....

You have a problem with dp power Thief? :scream: As long as not played with bound it is one of the very few builds left in this game i have respect for...

Yeah cuz it takes way out playing ur opponent to be successful and above all is usually a free kill for most decent players cuz its underpowered. What's not to like about it from a non thief main point of view lol

Did i say something different?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Holo is broken but i prefer to fight them over any Condithief. It is insane how low skill rewarding Condithief is.

Meanwhile dp is....

You have a problem with dp power Thief? :scream: As long as not played with bound it is one of the very few builds left in this game i have respect for...

Yeah cuz it takes way out playing ur opponent to be successful and above all is usually a free kill for most decent players cuz its underpowered. What's not to like about it from a non thief main point of view lol

Did i say something different?

No just stating ur right and the reason it's never complained about lol

[bravan.3876]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Holo is broken but i prefer to fight them over any Condithief. It is insane how low skill rewarding Condithief is.

Meanwhile dp is....

You have a problem with dp power Thief? :scream: As long as not played with bound it is one of the very few builds left in this game i have respect for...

Yeah cuz it takes way out playing ur opponent to be successful and above all is usually a free kill for most decent players cuz its underpowered. What's not to like about it from a non thief main point of view lol

Did i say something different?

No just stating ur right and the reason it's never complained about lol

Ok i wasn't sure i understood you right^^

[ZDragon.3046]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Holo is broken but i prefer to fight them over any Condithief. It is insane how low skill rewarding Condithief is.

Meanwhile dp is....

You have a problem with dp power Thief? :scream: As long as not played with bound it is one of the very few builds left in this game i have respect for...

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:No one appears to be listening. How did we get the CI nerf? This game is broke af.

CI stoped people from being able to react and paly at all.Condi theif still allows a person time to react and make a play... simple really.

That said condi theif is nuts but ive never not had a chance to retaliate unlike with mirage CI which did not allow this due to daze + immobilize at the same time.

They certainly are not easy to kill or catch but at least i can clear the condi and not just instantly die like when fighting CI mirage...

Does this cover your question?

At least the Mesmer needed to interrupt, Condithief doesn't need to care for anything. Easy to hit instant teleports and dodgechaining what also applies condis when in range of any skill. CI was hard to beat in its retardedness but Condithief managed to win in that regard.

You skipped right over the main problem

So by your logic it means the counter play to fighting a mesmer with CI was to simply not use skills? Allows them to load you up with condi? Do what ever it is they wanted for free? Keep in mind not every class has a solid source of constant stability which could be stolen by arcane thievery which is quick, has minimal tell, and is unblockable.

To talk like getting interrupts was uncommon is being kind of silly.Lets be real it does not take much to get an interrupt, don't sit here and pretend like it did like it was some rare occurrence. It was so common that everyone and their mother was running it so that means that it must have been pretty easy to do.

Against a thief even if you cannot hit them easily (same can be said for mirage) if you have condi cleans in your kit you can counteract them. Their builds also dont hinge on the idea that your target is locked down without the power to use skills, move, or dodge all at the same time either which allows for a wide range of counterplay. There are multiple ways and time to react when a condi theif comes in on you assuming your hp is not already low. IF you clear the poison the their pressure drops considerably especially if they unloaded everything to get you at once. There will be a down time before they can hard pressure you again with heavy damage. This does not happen for mirage its consistently high-ish throughout the entire time you fight them with slightly higher burst of application throughout the fight.

Lets jump back to mirage... the old CI mirageMirage's damage is rng but consistently being applied throughout the entire fight no matter how much cleanse you have. You are going to be taking heavy damage after a few seconds time as that is the nature of how how scepter and more so staff Mirage works. On top of this they had the lock down to prevent you from dodging, stop you from using skills, while having the power to dodge multiple times, block attacks, stealth, and gain invulnerability in a pinch. Even right now a mirage's condi pressure is by far more annoying than any condi theif ive bumped into. I would rather fight condi theif all day even if its tasteless than fight condi mirage. And lets not even consider the old CI condi mirage... just no... CI culling was 100% required. I thought the trait was too strong back when chronos were using it but mirage just made it obnoxiously strong. You and many others may not agree but thats your opinion and this is mine.

Back to the topic at hand condi thiefDo i think its strong? Simply put.... yes i think its very strong.Do i think its a skillful play style? No not really at all but it does not instantly kill you or prevent you from moving, using skills either for 5-10 seconds straight.

[bravan.3876]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Holo is broken but i prefer to fight them over any Condithief. It is insane how low skill rewarding Condithief is.

Meanwhile dp is....

You have a problem with dp power Thief? :scream: As long as not played with bound it is one of the very few builds left in this game i have respect for...

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:No one appears to be listening. How did we get the CI nerf? This game is broke af.

CI stoped people from being able to react and paly at all.Condi theif still allows a person time to react and make a play... simple really.

That said condi theif is nuts but ive never not had a chance to retaliate unlike with mirage CI which did not allow this due to daze + immobilize at the same time.

They certainly are not easy to kill or catch but at least i can clear the condi and not just instantly die like when fighting CI mirage...

Does this cover your question?

At least the Mesmer needed to interrupt, Condithief doesn't need to care for anything. Easy to hit instant teleports and dodgechaining what also applies condis when in range of any skill. CI was hard to beat in its retardedness but Condithief managed to win in that regard.

You skipped right over the main problem

So by your logic it means the counter play to fighting a mesmer with CI was to simply not use skills? Allows them to load you up with condi? Do what ever it is they wanted for free? Keep in mind not every class has a solid source of constant stability which could be stolen by arcane thievery which is quick, has minimal tell, and is unblockable.

To talk like getting interrupts was uncommon is being kind of silly.Lets be real it does not take much to get an interrupt, don't sit here and pretend like it did like it was some rare occurrence. It was so common that everyone and their mother was running it so that means that it must have been pretty easy to do.

Against a thief even if you cannot hit them easily (same can be said for mirage) if you have condi cleans in your kit you can counteract them. Their builds also dont hinge on the idea that your target is locked down without the power to use skills, move, or dodge all at the same time either which allows for a wide range of counterplay. There are multiple ways and time to react when a condi theif comes in on you assuming your hp is not already low. IF you clear the poison the their pressure drops considerably especially if they unloaded everything to get you at once. There will be a down time before they can hard pressure you again with heavy damage. This does not happen for mirage its consistently high-ish throughout the entire time you fight them with slightly higher burst of application throughout the fight.

Lets jump back to mirage... the old CI mirageMirage's damage is rng but consistently being applied throughout the entire fight no matter how much cleanse you have. You are going to be taking heavy damage after a few seconds time as that is the nature of how how scepter and more so staff Mirage works. On top of this they had the lock down to prevent you from dodging, stop you from using skills, while having the power to dodge multiple times, block attacks, stealth, and gain invulnerability in a pinch. Even right now a mirage's condi pressure is by far more annoying than any condi theif ive bumped into. I would rather fight condi theif all day even if its tasteless than fight condi mirage. And lets not even consider the old CI condi mirage... just no... CI culling was 100% required. I thought the trait was too strong back when chronos were using it but mirage just made it obnoxiously strong. You and many others may not agree but thats your opinion and this is mine.

Back to the topic at hand condi thiefDo i think its strong? Simply put.... yes i think its very strong.Do i think its a skillful play style? No not really at all but it does not instantly kill you or prevent you from moving, using skills either for 5-10 seconds straight.

You can calm down, i never was defending CI, it was a good move to remove it. But Condithief is at least the same lvl of retardedness. He doesn't need to lock you down, he can just hit you with instant stuff and (now same as Mirage) hit you during dodging with more dodges at hand than a mirage after vigor/adventure rune nerfs. The amount of condis (incl cover condies) is pretty high and can be applied very often and that way too easy.

[ZDragon.3046]

@bravan.3876 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Holo is broken but i prefer to fight them over any Condithief. It is insane how low skill rewarding Condithief is.

Meanwhile dp is....

You have a problem with dp power Thief? :scream: As long as not played with bound it is one of the very few builds left in this game i have respect for...

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:No one appears to be listening. How did we get the CI nerf? This game is broke af.

CI stoped people from being able to react and paly at all.Condi theif still allows a person time to react and make a play... simple really.

That said condi theif is nuts but ive never not had a chance to retaliate unlike with mirage CI which did not allow this due to daze + immobilize at the same time.

They certainly are not easy to kill or catch but at least i can clear the condi and not just instantly die like when fighting CI mirage...

Does this cover your question?

At least the Mesmer needed to interrupt, Condithief doesn't need to care for anything. Easy to hit instant teleports and dodgechaining what also applies condis when in range of any skill. CI was hard to beat in its retardedness but Condithief managed to win in that regard.

You skipped right over the main problem

So by your logic it means the counter play to fighting a mesmer with CI was to simply not use skills? Allows them to load you up with condi? Do what ever it is they wanted for free? Keep in mind not every class has a solid source of constant stability which could be stolen by arcane thievery which is quick, has minimal tell, and is unblockable.

To talk like getting interrupts was uncommon is being kind of silly.Lets be real it does not take much to get an interrupt, don't sit here and pretend like it did like it was some rare occurrence. It was so common that everyone and their mother was running it so that means that it must have been pretty easy to do.

Against a thief even if you cannot hit them easily (same can be said for mirage) if you have condi cleans in your kit you can counteract them. Their builds also dont hinge on the idea that your target is locked down without the power to use skills, move, or dodge all at the same time either which allows for a wide range of counterplay. There are multiple ways and time to react when a condi theif comes in on you assuming your hp is not already low. IF you clear the poison the their pressure drops considerably especially if they unloaded everything to get you at once. There will be a down time before they can hard pressure you again with heavy damage. This does not happen for mirage its consistently high-ish throughout the entire time you fight them with slightly higher burst of application throughout the fight.

Lets jump back to mirage... the old CI mirageMirage's damage is rng but consistently being applied throughout the entire fight no matter how much cleanse you have. You are going to be taking heavy damage after a few seconds time as that is the nature of how how scepter and more so staff Mirage works. On top of this they had the lock down to prevent you from dodging, stop you from using skills, while having the power to dodge multiple times, block attacks, stealth, and gain invulnerability in a pinch. Even right now a mirage's condi pressure is by far more annoying than any condi theif ive bumped into. I would rather fight condi theif all day even if its tasteless than fight condi mirage. And lets not even consider the old CI condi mirage... just no... CI culling was 100% required. I thought the trait was too strong back when chronos were using it but mirage just made it obnoxiously strong. You and many others may not agree but thats your opinion and this is mine.

Back to the topic at hand condi thiefDo i think its strong? Simply put.... yes i think its very strong.Do i think its a skillful play style? No not really at all but it does not instantly kill you or prevent you from moving, using skills either for 5-10 seconds straight.

You can calm down, i never was defending CI, it was a good move to remove it. But Condithief is at least the same lvl of retardedness. He doesn't need to lock you down, he can just hit you with instant stuff and (now same as Mirage) hit you during dodging with more dodges at hand than a mirage after vigor/adventure rune nerfs. The amount of condis (incl cover condies) is pretty high and can be applied very often and that way too easy.

Cant say i fully agree with that statement.I think mirage is far more of a problem when it comes to constant application. So long as the mirage wants to stay engaged with you there will be incoming high pressure condition application especially while they have clones up and are using staff. I think only thiefs initial burst application is high everything after that is "meh" at best

I dont think its fair to say thief should be immediately punished for jumping in on you while you are distracted as thats basically then nature of every thief class in most mmo games.

IF you look at it from the other case where they come in at you while you are not distracted its not not as free as you think it might be unless you are running 0 condi clear. The condi builds heavily depending on landing steal + venoms buffed strikes makes the pressure more bursty and not overly constant in my eyes.

Once venoms are out, steal is used, their pressure and damage drops considerably many thief will opt to running short bow after using up melee strikes because choking gas is so good now but hat in itself leaves them kinda open and free depending on what you are playing and what tools you have open to you.

[Vaga.5174]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Vaga.5174 said:Condi thief needs to seriously be addressed.

There is good reason that there is a huge increase in them in ranked play especially in mid/high plat i'm seeing far more regularly a 4 thief game (2 on each side). In which instantly my interest in the game is lost (I still try but know it wont be a fun game).

Yes i know condi thief should beat my class if played well, its the fact that it doesn't even have to be played at all well to beat, i believe myself to be, a fairly competent player. And as someone who looks at most 1v1 situations and tries to adapt to see how i can improve my gameplay, i find it almost impossible to do this vs this spec. There is 0 telegraph to dodge, so you pretty much have to dodge blind to avoid and instant array of conditions to applied to you and if you dont, you pretty much are forced to cleanse as those condis alone can take a good chunk of hp without the thief really using anything.

The poison buffs have been overbuffed, where pretty much anything gives you poison, so you suffer from the -33% hp gain and a pretty huge amount of damage as they stack a crazy amount. The worst of this is even if you lose half of your life you can never really recover, as you almost always will have some poison on you, and the mobility of thief doesn't allow you to even kite well. Hell you cant even block as they can just use shortbow to get unblockable poison AND interrupt if you have poison on you. Madness!

1 thief in this spec is bad, 2 in one game is just laughably unfun, and i play the game mode to have fun. I dont mind losing so long as i feel i have a chance to do something. Im giving PvP a wider berth as almost every game has 1-2 of this and its just no fun to play against.

Hell if you are a condi thief and want to give some tips on how to deal with you in this state that would be nice, without the usual unhelpful comments of git gud/change class etc.

I'd rather fight Condi thieves than warriors tbh. It's not less skillful than popping rampage and two shotting just about every class.

Doesnt really come into what you'd rather fight. Talking about condi thief in this thread. Id rather fight any other class than thief? So what? I never said warrior doesnt have its balance issues (which really only is around Rampage) There is more you can do to avoid/counter warrior than condi thief.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Is condi thief more potent on 1 v1 then team?

[Math.5123]

@Vaga.5174 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Vaga.5174 said:Condi thief needs to seriously be addressed.

There is good reason that there is a huge increase in them in ranked play especially in mid/high plat i'm seeing far more regularly a 4 thief game (2 on each side). In which instantly my interest in the game is lost (I still try but know it wont be a fun game).

Yes i know condi thief should beat my class if played well, its the fact that it doesn't even have to be played at all well to beat, i believe myself to be, a fairly competent player. And as someone who looks at most 1v1 situations and tries to adapt to see how i can improve my gameplay, i find it almost impossible to do this vs this spec. There is 0 telegraph to dodge, so you pretty much have to dodge blind to avoid and instant array of conditions to applied to you and if you dont, you pretty much are forced to cleanse as those condis alone can take a good chunk of hp without the thief really using anything.

The poison buffs have been overbuffed, where pretty much anything gives you poison, so you suffer from the -33% hp gain and a pretty huge amount of damage as they stack a crazy amount. The worst of this is even if you lose half of your life you can never really recover, as you almost always will have some poison on you, and the mobility of thief doesn't allow you to even kite well. Hell you cant even block as they can just use shortbow to get unblockable poison AND interrupt if you have poison on you. Madness!

1 thief in this spec is bad, 2 in one game is just laughably unfun, and i play the game mode to have fun. I dont mind losing so long as i feel i have a chance to do something. Im giving PvP a wider berth as almost every game has 1-2 of this and its just no fun to play against.

Hell if you are a condi thief and want to give some tips on how to deal with you in this state that would be nice, without the usual unhelpful comments of git gud/change class etc.

I'd rather fight Condi thieves than warriors tbh. It's not less skillful than popping rampage and two shotting just about every class.

Doesnt really come into what you'd rather fight. Talking about condi thief in this thread. Id rather fight any other class than thief? So what? I never said warrior doesnt have its balance issues (which really only is around Rampage) There is more you can do to avoid/counter warrior than condi thief.

You were talking about which classes are fun to play against. I just clarified that it's subjective. As a guard, I can't avoid either of them.