How is dagger off hand after the changes? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Professions Ranger

How is dagger off hand after the changes?

anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

how is the damage? And the utility? Any useful combo with other skills?

Comments

  • Dragonzhunter.8506Dragonzhunter.8506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    how is the damage? And the utility? Any useful combo with other skills?

    From my POV in sPVP all other OH weapons are better. In WvW still useless. I don't know in PVE because I didn't try it.

  • Durzlla.6295Durzlla.6295 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    how is the damage? And the utility? Any useful combo with other skills?

    It’s been buffed that’s for sure, and it’s definitely useable. The direct damage is nothing to write home about, but I’ve been enjoying pumping people full of 10 poison from the 4 skill with QuickDraw.

    I’d say in its current state it’s pretty solid in a condi build in PvP, the 4 skill against a movement impaired Target is close to as much damage as torch 4, but is tied to an evade, and is a shorter duration (so quicker damage). And the 5 skill is nice for both kiting and keeping people from running.

    If you’re using a power build however I’d probably consider any of our other offhands unless you really want that evade.

    I’d imagine in WvW it’s still how it’s always been. And in PvE I haven’t ran numbers or anything, for it but it applies as much poison as Shortbow, and for longer, so I’d imagine it’s got potential for raw damage.

    "But my children sing to me. Listen. They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family. As their mother, I have to grant them their wish."

  • Dragonzhunter.8506Dragonzhunter.8506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Durzlla.6295 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    how is the damage? And the utility? Any useful combo with other skills?

    It’s been buffed that’s for sure, and it’s definitely useable. The direct damage is nothing to write home about, but I’ve been enjoying pumping people full of 10 poison from the 4 skill with QuickDraw.

    I’d say in its current state it’s pretty solid in a condi build in PvP, the 4 skill against a movement impaired Target is close to as much damage as torch 4, but is tied to an evade, and is a shorter duration (so quicker damage). And the 5 skill is nice for both kiting and keeping people from running.

    If you’re using a power build however I’d probably consider any of our other offhands unless you really want that evade.

    I’d imagine in WvW it’s still how it’s always been. And in PvE I haven’t ran numbers or anything, for it but it applies as much poison as Shortbow, and for longer, so I’d imagine it’s got potential for raw damage.

    With dagger OH, how many times did you win vs other class in sPVP, every 10 fights? Dagger was buffed, idd, dagger it useable idd, but at this moment, a ranger condi build with dagger it is a solution in sPVP? With your condi build+dagger, did you win more than 60% of your confrontation with other classes? Or vs a power build ranger?
    I'm asking you because I tried dagger and I didn't feel that right now it is a viable choice. But, it is possible that my fighting style doesn't fit on condi+dagger build.
    Can you answer please, to my questions? Thank you!

  • Durzlla.6295Durzlla.6295 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Durzlla.6295 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    how is the damage? And the utility? Any useful combo with other skills?

    It’s been buffed that’s for sure, and it’s definitely useable. The direct damage is nothing to write home about, but I’ve been enjoying pumping people full of 10 poison from the 4 skill with QuickDraw.

    I’d say in its current state it’s pretty solid in a condi build in PvP, the 4 skill against a movement impaired Target is close to as much damage as torch 4, but is tied to an evade, and is a shorter duration (so quicker damage). And the 5 skill is nice for both kiting and keeping people from running.

    If you’re using a power build however I’d probably consider any of our other offhands unless you really want that evade.

    I’d imagine in WvW it’s still how it’s always been. And in PvE I haven’t ran numbers or anything, for it but it applies as much poison as Shortbow, and for longer, so I’d imagine it’s got potential for raw damage.

    With dagger OH, how many times did you win vs other class in sPVP, every 10 fights? Dagger was buffed, idd, dagger it useable idd, but at this moment, a ranger condi build with dagger it is a solution in sPVP? With your condi build+dagger, did you win more than 60% of your confrontation with other classes? Or vs a power build ranger?
    I'm asking you because I tried dagger and I didn't feel that right now it is a viable choice. But, it is possible that my fighting style doesn't fit on condi+dagger build.
    Can you answer please, to my questions? Thank you!

    I was not keeping accurate count, so take these numbers with a grain of salt, I’d say overall 1v1s I probably won 40-50%, but I’m attributing quite a few of my loses (potentially bumping it up to 50-60% wins) to me completely botching sword due to muscle memory (keeping leaping in and then hitting 3 instead of 2 etc).

    I did not encounter too many power rangers, but the ones I did encounter seemed to be pretty bad, which resulted in a win for me, im not sure how it’d fair against more capable power rangers.

    The build I was using was essentially a condi + immob Druid, so I’m sure an element of surprise was a factor, as well as cheesing people out who didn’t have condi cleanse to not be stuck standing still the whole fight.

    I should be able to be on tonight, I’ll get a more accurate number of wins/loses and comment them on here then. That way I’m not giving you inaccurate numbers.

    "But my children sing to me. Listen. They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family. As their mother, I have to grant them their wish."

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's better. But still outclassed.

  • Abyssisis.3971Abyssisis.3971 Member ✭✭✭

    It’s still useless.

  • Dragonzhunter.8506Dragonzhunter.8506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Durzlla.6295 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Durzlla.6295 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    how is the damage? And the utility? Any useful combo with other skills?

    It’s been buffed that’s for sure, and it’s definitely useable. The direct damage is nothing to write home about, but I’ve been enjoying pumping people full of 10 poison from the 4 skill with QuickDraw.

    I’d say in its current state it’s pretty solid in a condi build in PvP, the 4 skill against a movement impaired Target is close to as much damage as torch 4, but is tied to an evade, and is a shorter duration (so quicker damage). And the 5 skill is nice for both kiting and keeping people from running.

    If you’re using a power build however I’d probably consider any of our other offhands unless you really want that evade.

    I’d imagine in WvW it’s still how it’s always been. And in PvE I haven’t ran numbers or anything, for it but it applies as much poison as Shortbow, and for longer, so I’d imagine it’s got potential for raw damage.

    With dagger OH, how many times did you win vs other class in sPVP, every 10 fights? Dagger was buffed, idd, dagger it useable idd, but at this moment, a ranger condi build with dagger it is a solution in sPVP? With your condi build+dagger, did you win more than 60% of your confrontation with other classes? Or vs a power build ranger?
    I'm asking you because I tried dagger and I didn't feel that right now it is a viable choice. But, it is possible that my fighting style doesn't fit on condi+dagger build.
    Can you answer please, to my questions? Thank you!

    I was not keeping accurate count, so take these numbers with a grain of salt, I’d say overall 1v1s I probably won 40-50%, but I’m attributing quite a few of my loses (potentially bumping it up to 50-60% wins) to me completely botching sword due to muscle memory (keeping leaping in and then hitting 3 instead of 2 etc).

    I did not encounter too many power rangers, but the ones I did encounter seemed to be pretty bad, which resulted in a win for me, im not sure how it’d fair against more capable power rangers.

    The build I was using was essentially a condi + immob Druid, so I’m sure an element of surprise was a factor, as well as cheesing people out who didn’t have condi cleanse to not be stuck standing still the whole fight.

    I should be able to be on tonight, I’ll get a more accurate number of wins/loses and comment them on here then. That way I’m not giving you inaccurate numbers.

    Durzlla, I don't need an accurate number, from your answers I understand. Thank you!

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Durzlla.6295 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Durzlla.6295 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    how is the damage? And the utility? Any useful combo with other skills?

    It’s been buffed that’s for sure, and it’s definitely useable. The direct damage is nothing to write home about, but I’ve been enjoying pumping people full of 10 poison from the 4 skill with QuickDraw.

    I’d say in its current state it’s pretty solid in a condi build in PvP, the 4 skill against a movement impaired Target is close to as much damage as torch 4, but is tied to an evade, and is a shorter duration (so quicker damage). And the 5 skill is nice for both kiting and keeping people from running.

    If you’re using a power build however I’d probably consider any of our other offhands unless you really want that evade.

    I’d imagine in WvW it’s still how it’s always been. And in PvE I haven’t ran numbers or anything, for it but it applies as much poison as Shortbow, and for longer, so I’d imagine it’s got potential for raw damage.

    With dagger OH, how many times did you win vs other class in sPVP, every 10 fights? Dagger was buffed, idd, dagger it useable idd, but at this moment, a ranger condi build with dagger it is a solution in sPVP? With your condi build+dagger, did you win more than 60% of your confrontation with other classes? Or vs a power build ranger?
    I'm asking you because I tried dagger and I didn't feel that right now it is a viable choice. But, it is possible that my fighting style doesn't fit on condi+dagger build.
    Can you answer please, to my questions? Thank you!

    I was not keeping accurate count, so take these numbers with a grain of salt, I’d say overall 1v1s I probably won 40-50%, but I’m attributing quite a few of my loses (potentially bumping it up to 50-60% wins) to me completely botching sword due to muscle memory (keeping leaping in and then hitting 3 instead of 2 etc).

    I did not encounter too many power rangers, but the ones I did encounter seemed to be pretty bad, which resulted in a win for me, im not sure how it’d fair against more capable power rangers.

    The build I was using was essentially a condi + immob Druid, so I’m sure an element of surprise was a factor, as well as cheesing people out who didn’t have condi cleanse to not be stuck standing still the whole fight.

    I should be able to be on tonight, I’ll get a more accurate number of wins/loses and comment them on here then. That way I’m not giving you inaccurate numbers.

    The dagger did very little for you on that build.

  • How this should be approached is from duelists' perspective: how well would you fare vs certain build that are present now.
    I'm not comparing from a point of GS/LB build as the playstyle and role is mainly different( +1er).
    Looking from a sPvP perspective as well, playing mostly ranger during 200+ rated games this season in P2/1 EU.

    Offhand slot on ranger has three options: dagger, axe and warhorn. All of those offer some kind of sustain and pressure.
    SW is most likely used with WH on either core or boonbeast builds, so it's a choice between the two. WH is essential on boonbeast and another source of pet buff up for core ranger so optional there. If you botch axe offhand for dagger, you lose on a one one skill that actually does dmg on those two bunker builds ( axe5).

    • Condi Mirage - dagger4 would be nice to evade IH procs from clones, but you lose on WH4 + OWP combo which is most likely your only chance to burst mirage which doesn't get reflected. dagger5 is whatever as its dmg i like one axe autoattack and WH5 provides might stacking potential. So most likely lose ability to dmg mirage but add some sustain.
    • Holo( either rifle or prot) - evade would mean you could nullify some of the forge burst better(prime light beam, corona, photon..); The thing is, holo does considerable dmg on every skill including autoattack in forge, so you cant stay in melee. I'd be still better off with trying to kite and buff up meanwhile. Again, lose ability to pressure the holo after forge is used.
    • Warrior : all variants of warrior are multiple high dmg might stacking machines now. The way to win the duel is most likely to evade their burst skills and outpressure them as they lack on demand sustain compared to ranger. Dagger4 could be very useful in evading Rampage rock or Bull's charge which are both used in setuping kills. On boonbeast it is better in my experience to keep siamoth Unflinching fortitude ready to merge once they enter Rampage as it both stunbreaks and negates their dmg. Obviously core doesnt have this but usually runs "Protect me" which kinda does the same in 1v1. Getting unblockable form WH5( you can both might stack and get unblockable on Boonbeast if you know how) might prove decisive if the warrior think he's safe blocking so you can Winter's bite next or axe 4 pull him through block.
    • Condi thief/daredevil - similar to mirage albeit more predictable. You will be pressured by insta cast sw2 and steal/swipe so evade wont help you much there. They usually hide behind LoS object before doing their blitz so dagger 5 aint gonna help much either. I'd still prefer stacking boons and sustaining in between their assaults.
    • Fire Tempest - hard matchup for bunker ranger due to constant pressure in fire attunement and access to invulns/evades in earth/water attunement. Your best bet is to land hard hits or make them waste their 25s CD stunbreaks. Again as holos, their pressure in fire is very high to face tank and staying in melee near them is suicide. It's very hard to kill them unless with +1 cause they can reset the fight swapping attunements and your pressure outside a few skills is not threatening to them. Dagger offhand or not, this matchup stays mainly the same. GS/LB builds have better chance in here as they can pressure from further away and threaten them with one shots due to their low health pools.

    Conclusion: Potential use on core ranger which goes bunkery; boonstacking and burst from WH is a lot better on Boonbeast. If there will be a rework of Skirmishing and/or shortbow we could see some hybrid ranger which focuses on evades and condi pressure. If the druid is reworked, might see the light of the day in a similar fashion. On power, imo not really advantageous, and condi rangers just get farmed atm.

  • Durzlla.6295Durzlla.6295 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Durzlla.6295 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Durzlla.6295 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    how is the damage? And the utility? Any useful combo with other skills?

    It’s been buffed that’s for sure, and it’s definitely useable. The direct damage is nothing to write home about, but I’ve been enjoying pumping people full of 10 poison from the 4 skill with QuickDraw.

    I’d say in its current state it’s pretty solid in a condi build in PvP, the 4 skill against a movement impaired Target is close to as much damage as torch 4, but is tied to an evade, and is a shorter duration (so quicker damage). And the 5 skill is nice for both kiting and keeping people from running.

    If you’re using a power build however I’d probably consider any of our other offhands unless you really want that evade.

    I’d imagine in WvW it’s still how it’s always been. And in PvE I haven’t ran numbers or anything, for it but it applies as much poison as Shortbow, and for longer, so I’d imagine it’s got potential for raw damage.

    With dagger OH, how many times did you win vs other class in sPVP, every 10 fights? Dagger was buffed, idd, dagger it useable idd, but at this moment, a ranger condi build with dagger it is a solution in sPVP? With your condi build+dagger, did you win more than 60% of your confrontation with other classes? Or vs a power build ranger?
    I'm asking you because I tried dagger and I didn't feel that right now it is a viable choice. But, it is possible that my fighting style doesn't fit on condi+dagger build.
    Can you answer please, to my questions? Thank you!

    I was not keeping accurate count, so take these numbers with a grain of salt, I’d say overall 1v1s I probably won 40-50%, but I’m attributing quite a few of my loses (potentially bumping it up to 50-60% wins) to me completely botching sword due to muscle memory (keeping leaping in and then hitting 3 instead of 2 etc).

    I did not encounter too many power rangers, but the ones I did encounter seemed to be pretty bad, which resulted in a win for me, im not sure how it’d fair against more capable power rangers.

    The build I was using was essentially a condi + immob Druid, so I’m sure an element of surprise was a factor, as well as cheesing people out who didn’t have condi cleanse to not be stuck standing still the whole fight.

    I should be able to be on tonight, I’ll get a more accurate number of wins/loses and comment them on here then. That way I’m not giving you inaccurate numbers.

    The dagger did very little for you on that build.

    To be fair, it did serve it’s role of giving me an evade that also applies some pressure, and some more bleed stacks, but yeah the dagger was not a focus, it was mainly brought because torch was just feast or famine.

    "But my children sing to me. Listen. They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family. As their mother, I have to grant them their wish."

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    It's better. But still outclassed.

    @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    It’s still useless.

    So, there is no consensus on it. ;)

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Dragonzhunter.8506Dragonzhunter.8506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    It's better. But still outclassed.

    @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    It’s still useless.

    So, there is no consensus on it. ;)

    In sPVP may work somehow, in WvW is garbage like it was before.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    It's better. But still outclassed.

    @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    It’s still useless.

    So, there is no consensus on it. ;)

    Well useless means it has no use. Outclassed means everything else is better and gets no use.
    Calling that no consensus is a bit nitpicking isn't it ;)

    But the changes were a good start. Honestly I would love if they would slap a teleport onto crippling talon or an ammo mechanic on stalker strike but yeah wishful thinking.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    It's better. But still outclassed.

    @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    It’s still useless.

    So, there is no consensus on it. ;)

    Well useless means it has no use. Outclassed means everything else is better and gets no use.
    Calling that no consensus is a bit nitpicking isn't it ;)

    But the changes were a good start. Honestly I would love if they would slap a teleport onto crippling talon or an ammo mechanic on stalker strike but yeah wishful thinking.

    I just thought that it was funny how one post was positive and the very next post was the opposite.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Abyssisis.3971Abyssisis.3971 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2019

    Dagger buff is a positive, it’s just that it’s still a useless weapon and you still end up picking a warhorn or axe.

    And imo, the only reason dagger even got a buff is because they couldn’t have a balance patch of full nerfs for rangers so they decided to slightly buff a weapon that nobody uses.

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's better but you're still just a worse S/D thief with it on

    They need to remove the cripple requirement for dagger 4's damage and completely rework dagger 5 into a different skill

    They''re tring to make a weapon that's 7 years behind the curve better by upping the numbers and it's just not gonna fly

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    It's better. But still outclassed.

    @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    It’s still useless.

    So, there is no consensus on it. ;)

    Well useless means it has no use. Outclassed means everything else is better and gets no use.
    Calling that no consensus is a bit nitpicking isn't it ;)

    But the changes were a good start. Honestly I would love if they would slap a teleport onto crippling talon or an ammo mechanic on stalker strike but yeah wishful thinking.

    I just thought that it was funny how one post was positive and the very next post was the opposite.

    Yeah that's the forums 🤷‍♂️

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    It's better. But still outclassed.

    @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    It’s still useless.

    So, there is no consensus on it. ;)

    Well useless means it has no use. Outclassed means everything else is better and gets no use.
    Calling that no consensus is a bit nitpicking isn't it ;)

    But the changes were a good start. Honestly I would love if they would slap a teleport onto crippling talon or an ammo mechanic on stalker strike but yeah wishful thinking.

    Actually i think your suggestions (teleport and ammo) would make the dagger a good weapon and a real option for duelists.

    After being able to test the changes i agree with you all, the changes are an step in the good direction, unfortunately it wasn't enough and IMO the weapon is still garbage tier in all gamemodes.

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    Low damage, low utility. Better then before but nothing worth using.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't think it's strong in competition but I had fun with a Core Ranger hybrid build with Sword / Torch and Axe / Dagger.