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No Sense of Exploration


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@kharmin.7683 said:

In all the new maps most vistas are only reachable via springer or sky scale, which really takes away a lot of the exploration.Name one. Not trying to be a kitten; I'm actually curious as to which vistas in these maps actually require springer or skyscale

I will have to check in game, I do not know the name of it off hand though, if I remember correctly it was in the war eternal map.

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Ive found ive been exploring more -with- mounts. Not the standard exploration though i try to get to cool areas that arent accessible without mounts on maps, especially in the core maps. Theres some pretty cool locations/ scenery that changes when you are above it.

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Thanks for your thoughts everyone. The mount discussion is a valid one, but my thoughts were more focused on the linearity of the story progression and by necessity your personal experience of the world.

The game railroads you to complete maps in a certain order. You can Portal Scroll to, say the Domain of Kourna, Thunderhead Peaks, Jahai before that part of the story, but they'll all be yelling at you about something that hasn't happened to you yet. The fact that there's no boat from Istan to the mainland, or the Shiverpeaks and Thunderhead, if I wanted to go running around the world from Thunderhead to Ascalon later, I can't do that. They teased a desert entrance at Ebonhawke which is still forgotten today, I doubt they'll ever link it up (even with a map inbetween) to give one of my intrepid alts a fresh new horizon to walk.

Some maps are linked; Jahai, Kourna and Vabbi, but they seem like afterthoughts (the location of Kourna's portal leads onto a rocky hill...). It's inconsistent.

All of the core maps are linked to somewhere else. I really liked Bitterfrost in Season 3. As far as I remember, you can go there if you choose and if the story isn't active nobody is there crying, "COMMANDER! spoiler spoiler!"

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I loved Guildwars but after the 3rd or 4th character run across the world... I wont lie it did get tedious. Portals in GW2 are one of the only good additions GW2 has over GW1..

The rest imo is worse, Story, Game mechanics, Skills, Classes etc.. Yes GW2 is fun in its own right and its graphics are far superior but Guildwars 1 was a far more complete game with far more longevity. That running though O.o

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@Reverielle.3972 said:Often overlooked, but what exploration there was in the game (and there was quite a bit in the beginning) has in part gone due to mounts and gliders too: There is just hardly any thrill or fear of falling or death or otherwise from wandering about anymore. Nothing like the original zones, with all the wonderful jumping puzzles etc etc. It's fundamentally down to risk v reward; no risk, no reward. Mounts and gliders are great, but they've made things too easy and taken away almost completely that aspect of play; exploration.

@Maikimaik.1974 said:I love the way GW2 implemented mounts, but they totally destroyed the sense of exploration for me. Maps are incredibly detailed in this game, but I can't look at the detail if I'm flying with a thousand miles per hour on my gryphon.

But... mounts are completely optional, at least for core maps. Some of the challenge in post-mount maps could be going places without using them?

Yeah but by now I'm so used to the speed of mounts I can't imagine having to slowly walk again.

I get it and I agree; however, using mounts as an excuse for not exploring (or saying that exploring is missing from the game) ...? Not saying you specifically, but more the general tenor of the thread with regards to mounts and exploring.

I don't think players use it as an excuse. It is known however that the majority of the game's maps were not designed for mounts (for years developers were saying we would never have mounts), and as a result the exploration part of the game-play suffers there because of their introduction. Additionally latter zones in the game seem to have fewer explorationesque areas.

Certainly players choose not use mounts/gliders if they want to make exploration harder/more-rewarding, but that is akin to telling players to equip lower level equipment if they want more engaging combat: It's largely against human nature, and against the fundamentals of mmorp game-play really.

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@Durzlla.6295 said:

In all the new maps most vistas are only reachable via springer or sky scale, which really takes away a lot of the exploration.Name one. Not trying to be a kitten; I'm actually curious as to which vistas in these maps actually require springer or skyscale

I will have to check in game, I do not know the name of it off hand though, if I remember correctly it was in the war eternal map.

I'm not sure, there might be an on-foot way to get to it (possibly needing some gliding -- maybe starting from the target shooting platforms at their highest point?), but the vista in the Blood Keep in Grothmar Valley seems to me to need some way of getting lifted up. Same with the one on the cliff behind the effigy. Of course, as I already have a skyscale I haven't looked for other ways up.

I do agree that the story is quite linear. Enough so that when there are elements you can do in any order, it's noticeable. Eg, saurian bones for Taimi's pylons let you pick any cave and then light up any of the dark pylons, and in the story parts in LS4 and the prologue where you have to do events or hearts to fill up a bar you can do any of them in the map and order you like. I don't mind it as much as some, though. I have a real tendency to paralysis of choice; when I have too many good options I can't pick any of them because then I lose the others. In my tabletop games, the more sandboxy they get the more I freeze up. I guess it's because I'm fine at tactics, lousy at strategy :)

So I get my exploration kicks from the new maps, finding all the spots, listening to dialogues, learning the new events, doing the achieves, and I don't mind so much that I don't have a blank canvas to unmask in any order I like. That's all just me, though, I can certainly see how it can feel restrictive to others.

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Mounts and glide absolutely ruined exploration in gw2.No more thinking "how the hell do i get there?" Now it's just "lemme press X and fly on my skyscale." .These days I honestly come across places that I have no idea how to get there by foot. I just use my skyscale for everything.

Remember ezploring exciting places with no mounts/glider? The thrill of risk like doing Hidden Garden JP...those were the days of whatever exploration gw2 had.

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@"Xynxycs.6718" said:There's no way to "fast track" my character to the new content.Correct me if I am wrong but is it not possible to buy the game, boost a toon to 80 and do the LW content in any order you please (including new stuff first)?Aren't you also able to simple tp to friend to any map you have access to?

I get what you are trying to say and disagree completely... accusing this game of gating content is simply false. Part of the reason it doesn't feel like a living breathing world is the focus on convenience at the cost of immersion.Most players I know suffer from "what do I do now?" when they get to 80 and not "there's only one thing to do, one way to go.". It's a theme park sure, but it's main problem at 80 is not that it pushes you in one direction, but that it pulls you in 8 at once.

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@"mindcircus.1506" said:Most players I know suffer from "what do I do now?" when they get to 80 and not "there's only one thing to do, one way to go.". It's a theme park sure, but it's main problem at 80 is not that it pushes you in one direction, but that it pulls you in 8 at once.

This is one of the biggest weakness of GW2. I find myself asking that question everyday. If someone cant put goals to achieve, s/he has little to do here.

On topic, another reason why GW2 has no sense of exploration; PoI and such.I personally keep throwing an eye on mini map to search for PoI to complete the map. I think all of those PoI/Vista/hearts etc are hurting the map exploration just as much as mounts if not more.

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@wefal.8426 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Most players I know suffer from "what do I do now?" when they get to 80 and not "there's only one thing to do, one way to go.". It's a theme park sure, but it's main problem at 80 is not that it pushes you in one direction, but that it pulls you in 8 at once.

This is one of the biggest weakness of GW2. I find myself asking that question everyday. If someone cant put goals to achieve, s/he has little to do here.

On topic, another reason why GW2 has no sense of exploration; PoI and such.I personally keep throwing an eye on mini map to search for PoI to complete the map. I think all of those PoI/Vista/hearts etc are hurting the map exploration just as much as mounts if not more.

Now we know you're just trolling.

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I don't see mounts as the problem. In fact, personally, I enjoy exploring more with them. But I still run on foot at times too. Depends on my mood. Mounts are totally optional, especially in the core map.

BUT, the instant get there of portals and now with the new LW4 and 5, we get transported places instantly via chopper or airship. Loading screen, tada, you're there. No sense of distance. It really would be more fun if we had to actually make the journey, imo.

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Exploring has always been one of my favorite things to do in-game. The mounts have opened new areas to explore (or at least new ways to explore). There are whole days that I just run around exploring, and maybe doing some hearts. I have whole maps explored before ever looking to see if there is a story or not ha ha.

Monster bashing and exploring are my main fun here.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Xynxycs.6718" said:There's no way to "fast track" my character to the new content.Correct me if I am wrong but is it not possible to buy the game, boost a toon to 80 and do the LW content in any order you please (including new stuff first)?Aren't you also able to simple tp to friend to any map you have access to?

I get what you are trying to say and disagree completely... accusing this game of gating content is simply false. Part of the reason it doesn't feel like a living breathing world is the focus on convenience at the cost of immersion.Most players I know suffer from "what do I do now?" when they get to 80 and not "there's only one thing to do, one way to go.". It's a theme park sure, but it's main problem at 80 is not that it pushes you in one direction, but that it pulls you in 8 at once.

Since the game is story based, no, skipping ahead doesn't make sense. You'd have no idea what's happening. I'm talking about making the game more open world (like core Tyria) and less like a series of levels to complete in a particular order.

I'm not sure how anyone can misunderstand what I'm trying to say here. I'm not talking about the maps themselves, I'm talking about the order in which we're asked to play the content. I'm talking about alts and new players not endgame stuff.

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@"Xynxycs.6718" said:[...] feel like levels [...] heavy and bloated. There's no sense of a new horizon. Only "what's the next check box?"

Finally - the reason people prefer expansions over sagas and so on isn't because they're just blazing through content or entitled to """free""" (gem store funded) content. We know there's a minutiae of arbitrary tasks to complete in the achievement window. It's freshness that we yearn for. We want a square deal; vast lands to tread, new assets. New stories, side stories that aren't necessarily linked to us, apparently now the centre of the world... A land to truly explore. We're willing to pay for it.

The LW felt like a drip feed. Don't get me wrong - it had it's highlights. But did it feel like I was exploring? A little. Like exploring a theme park.

:+1: You nailed it there. Nothing to add.

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