How to fix Mirage

[Aza.2105]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Aza.2105 said:A class can be fixed to not overperform when you can identify their weakness. What is Mirages weakness??

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@viquing.8254 said:Now the downside :1) Easy to LOS.2) Obvious animation.3) Clones destroyables.4) Using evade to attack and defense.

• Only one breakstunt in a world where other class has minimum one or more 3 sec CC.
• Weak condiclear if not taking mantra of resolution.
• An obvious no def CD window. <= that's basically how I win my duel versus other mirages, you just have to count the two evade, then burst ; the first time he will scepter block, the second time he will get hit if he isn't doing op kitting.

Now I can ask you the same question, what is Mirages strengh ??

None of those are weaknesses. 3 out of 4 can be applied to all classes. The 3rd which is destroy the clones is no longer a weakness due to the rate at which mesmer can just summon new clones.

"'all class" can pop 4 to 6k damage instantly with no prerequise while mesmer had to rely on kitten clones to do something but yeah it ins't a weakness at all."all class" have more temporisation uptime for most of them by yeah again everyone look what he want to look at."many class" have condiclear in their build by not even specing into it.Having a way longer animation cast time than other isn't a weakness ofc. A 1 sec cast staff ambush is as strong as thief/rev 0.25 or 0.5 cast under quickness.As far as I know, mirage is the only spec who have to choose between burning a dodge to survive or damage but it's not a weakness at all...

There is nothing you have said that illustrates mirage weakness. You continue to name the same thing each other class has. I don't know how long you've been playing this game but everyone has to choose between dodging to survive or doing damage. Maybe you should try playing other classes to broaden your perspective of the game.

?? Maybe play the game ? it's been a long time now that metaclass can do damage

and

survive.Now I open metabattle, for curiosity, what are the weakness of :

• thief
• fb
• rev
• holo
• sb

Describe me please because if you want to feed me with no content you can but I will never ending post asking more details.What I wrote are mesmer weakness in general, mirage included. And no other class hasn't the same. But you can continue dreaming about the mirage op spec with no weakness if you want.

With the exception of REV, none of those elite specs really have a weakness. Which is why there are constant complaints about them. The specs that you hear people ask for buffs, are the ones that generally have a apparent weakness. Unfortunately due to how Anet has handled pvp balance, a weakness in a build makes them unfavorable.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:Infinite Horizon should just be either that your clones can evade, or they can do the ambush, not both. I'd prefer the clones still doing the ambush ability, but they just never evade so you can always cleave them.

only warrior/holo player would suggest something like that.holo to destroy all damage from mirage and gain stability.warrior to destroy all damage from mirage, gain might,adrenaline and heal.

[SeikeNz.3526]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:Infinite Horizon should just be either that your clones can evade, or they can do the ambush, not both. I'd prefer the clones still doing the ambush ability, but they just never evade so you can always cleave them.

only warrior/holo player would suggest something like that.holo to destroy all damage from mirage and gain stability.warrior to destroy all damage from mirage, gain might,adrenaline and heal.

lets face the truth, just because warriors and holos are broken that does not make mirage less broken, both need a nerf, the sugestion is for mirage, holos and warriors need a fix too

[Leonidrex.5649]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:Infinite Horizon should just be either that your clones can evade, or they can do the ambush, not both. I'd prefer the clones still doing the ambush ability, but they just never evade so you can always cleave them.

only warrior/holo player would suggest something like that.holo to destroy all damage from mirage and gain stability.warrior to destroy all damage from mirage, gain might,adrenaline and heal.

lets face the truth, just because warriors and holos are broken that does not make mirage less broken, both need a nerf, the sugestion is for mirage, holos and warriors need a fix too

how is mirage not less broken then holo or warrior? they are better in every aspect of the game.and alot of classes have this holo/war level of broken. we are stuck with mirage that doesnt even cut it anymore lol.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:Infinite Horizon should just be either that your clones can evade, or they can do the ambush, not both. I'd prefer the clones still doing the ambush ability, but they just never evade so you can always cleave them.

only warrior/holo player would suggest something like that.holo to destroy all damage from mirage and gain stability.warrior to destroy all damage from mirage, gain might,adrenaline and heal.

Regardless of effectiveness, I personally think the counter play of killing the clones should always be available. Especially considering how easy it is for mirage to create clones at this point.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:Infinite Horizon should just be either that your clones can evade, or they can do the ambush, not both. I'd prefer the clones still doing the ambush ability, but they just never evade so you can always cleave them.

only warrior/holo player would suggest something like that.holo to destroy all damage from mirage and gain stability.warrior to destroy all damage from mirage, gain might,adrenaline and heal.

Regardless of effectiveness, I personally think the counter play of killing the clones should always be available. Especially considering how easy it is for mirage to create clones at this point.

regardless of effectiveness, i think there should be counterplay to holo corona burst, and warrior aoe spam. in its current state IH is the thing that does it.

[RedShark.9548]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

So what are the downsides again?

Downsizes of deleting a profession from game? Players maining it leaving the game as many already did.

what about players leaving the game because of how unbalanced it is, and having to play against the abomination that condi mirage is?

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

So what are the downsides again?

Downsizes of deleting a profession from game? Players maining it leaving the game as many already did.

what about players leaving the game because of how unbalanced it is, and having to play against the abomination that condi mirage is?

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

So what are the downsides again?

Downsizes of deleting a profession from game? Players maining it leaving the game as many already did.

what about players leaving the game because of how unbalanced it is, and having to play against the abomination that condi mirage is?

At this point qqing about condi mirage is either a meme or l2p issue.Especially considering how broken half of the roaster is.

[Abraxxus.8971]

Make it so that the clones share the mesmers health pool. As the clones take damage, the mesmer itself takes a little bit of damage as well.

[bravan.3876]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:Regardless of effectiveness, I personally think the counter play of killing the clones should always be available. Especially considering how easy it is for mirage to create clones at this point.

It is not like Mirage can perma dodge, means you have plenty of moments you can easy cleave them clones 2k hp, also every dodge Mirage is doing to save clones is one dodge less to hold the Mirage itself alive. IH is a very interesting and active trait gives both sides ways to outplay each other, it would be a shame to nerf it in any here suggested way and would dumb down the spec instead making it more skillbased.

IH is fine, but only as long as ambushes are not overperforming in terms of dmg, so that the Mirage can play totally defensive and passive and let clones do the job. Sadly that is the case for condi ambush and condi normal autoattack clone skills atm. Logical solution: nerfs condiclones (ambush and normal autoattacks) and give Mesmer more active ways of condi applications instead. Also as i often said already, most of the condi weapons have too easy clone generation since illusion rework. Scepter should only give 1 clone on skill 2, just like staff on skill 3. Greatsword trait should give another bonus instead double berserker (no matter that it barely get used atm, surprise surprise), also no need for Mirage Cloak to give a clone. The rule since game release was one clone on each weaponset, one phantasm on each weaponset. No change during illusion rework made it necessary to break this balanced rule for Mesmer weapons. Voila, Condimirage balanced and with higher skill ceiling without killing active, not op by its own and interesting traits and without nerfing the class into the ground.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

At this point qqing about condi mirage is either a meme or l2p issue.Especially considering how broken half of the roaster is.

Somehow true but it still has some issues and that other stuff is at least as lame or broken is never a good argument. But i understand the frustration from Mesmer mains about the amount of complains and often very bad balance suggestions based on low game- and class knowledge and a lot of l2p issues. Condithief, Holo etc. deserve at least as many complain threads than Condimesmer.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Abraxxus.8971 said:Make it so that the clones share the mesmers health pool. As the clones take damage, the mesmer itself takes a little bit of damage as well.

so in turn, the clones will need to be able to survive more than 1 hit. How would shattering work then? Cant suggest they take damage when shattering as thats an awful idea to be killed by your class mechanic.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Abraxxus.8971 said:Make it so that the clones share the mesmers health pool. As the clones take damage, the mesmer itself takes a little bit of damage as well.

so in turn, the clones will need to be able to survive more than 1 hit. How would shattering work then? Cant suggest they take damage when shattering as thats an awful idea to be killed by your class mechanic.

if that was implemented I would rather not have clones at all.I dont get it mesmers mechanic ( clones ) are the most counterable out of all classes yet it gets whined on the most.the only build I had problem with clones was Cmirage becous of no damage ( hitting them for 200-300 )any power build kills them in 1hit, some can eve wipe all of them in 1shot while pressuring mesmer himself

[RedShark.9548]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

So what are the downsides again?

Downsizes of deleting a profession from game? Players maining it leaving the game as many already did.

what about players leaving the game because of how unbalanced it is, and having to play against the abomination that condi mirage is?

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

So what are the downsides again?

Downsizes of deleting a profession from game? Players maining it leaving the game as many already did.

what about players leaving the game because of how unbalanced it is, and having to play against the abomination that condi mirage is?

At this point qqing about condi mirage is either a meme or l2p issue.Especially considering how broken half of the roaster is.

Yea, ofc its always a l2p issue, not the fact that its just frustrating that he can mitigate a ton of damage to then, when he still gets pressured just leaving the fight via stealth and ridiculous mobility.

Pairing those things make the whole class unfun to play against, regardless of how much dmg it does (which isnt even low, unlike many mirage players are wanting to admit)

(same goes for thief and holo btw, stealth, mobility and dmg mitigation yaaaay)

[Leonidrex.5649]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

So what are the downsides again?

Downsizes of deleting a profession from game? Players maining it leaving the game as many already did.

what about players leaving the game because of how unbalanced it is, and having to play against the abomination that condi mirage is?

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Yes, disable the only trait that makes mirage playable.And in case you didn't notice chrono is dead since ip nerf.

So what are the downsides again?

Downsizes of deleting a profession from game? Players maining it leaving the game as many already did.

what about players leaving the game because of how unbalanced it is, and having to play against the abomination that condi mirage is?

At this point qqing about condi mirage is either a meme or l2p issue.Especially considering how broken half of the roaster is.

Yea, ofc its always a l2p issue, not the fact that its just frustrating that he can mitigate a ton of damage to then, when he still gets pressured just leaving the fight via stealth and ridiculous mobility.

Pairing those things make the whole class unfun to play against, regardless of how much dmg it does (which isnt even low, unlike many mirage players are wanting to admit)

(same goes for thief and holo btw, stealth, mobility and dmg mitigation yaaaay)

tbh biggest reason for whining against mirage is that ALOT of our powers is shit, so we have alot of different flavour of trash to choose from. some get stealth, some get random yeet the clones, some get reflect dome, some get illusion of life.and then people go on forums and think : MIRAGE IS OP it has REFLECT, it has STEALTH, it has TARGET BREAKING, it has DAMAGE, it has SUSTAIN it has yadda uadda nadda srada.truth is, you dont get to have all of those, you gotta choose sugarcube.