NA WvW is in freefall

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Mil.3562 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:A lot of dedicated players moved away from the format/game with the release of mounts.

People can kick and scream about how much they want to ride their cats and the huge surge of people who came into the mode when it launched (due to the free mount skin, not anything relevant to the mode itself), but one of the primary reasons why WvW populations have been in decline has been broken combat dynamics such as the elite specs, and mounts just dialed it to 11.

I see a lot of fake informations now that many players who like the mounts have already stopped playing or left WvW and go back to PvE. Only a handful who are still clinging onto WvW cared to defend it.

If you guys check through the history of the forum, you can see that it's always the same few forum veterans posting toxic comments and giving fake infos on how the mount killed WvW.

If you are a regular WvW players, playing WvW for hours every day over the past years, and constantly in T1 or T2 where all the actions are, Zerg fights and PPT, you will agree that powercreep and dead metas that lead to low populations every where are the only reasons why more and more players, guilds are giving up.

It has never been about the Warclaw

Please don't lie. WvWers love the Warclaw. But, gankers on the other hand, have been trying very hard to kill it since it's launch in Feb. Warclaws took away their only fun of jumping on unsuspecting players, forcing fights on support build players.

These players mostly mained non meta classes, they are not welcomed in zergs or organised group fights and hence they make the most noise in the forum, asking for nerfs and more.

Please stop spreading fake informatons to new players or players who want to try this mode. Your Gankers Mode is back. Go enjoy.

Warclaw destroyed small-scale and havoc, not ganking.

Ganking was almost totally unaffected. People who gank still do because they sit and pile on solo zerglings running back to their blobs. The mount is irrelevant in terms of gank prevention and if anything promotes this style of play for small group play more than ever before, because when gankers are finally killed, they can still traverse their third of the map faster than before, reducing the tedium of camping as they often do.

No longer can a skillgroup of 3-5 (VERY different from being a gank group) have any real map presence since the enemy blob can respond instantly to structure threats, and with the bonus effective player health, it's easier to buy time and defend than prior. It also further punishes solo roamers trying to make make plays because combat potential/engage potential as a lone attacker is less effective in order to kill an enemy to claim the objective or deny counter-siege.

Mounts ONLY improved the experience for people who ktrain.

[Optimator.3589]

@XenesisII.1540 said:It's probable that they would be one of the med host server still since they just dropped under the high threshold and relink in probably 2.5 weeks, but diving from full to med in 2 months says their alliance probably left or stop playing. Have a friend on there but I haven't been logging on much in the last 3 weeks to ask what's going on.

TLR went to FC. Doc probably not far behind.

[Liston.9708]

@Optimator.3589 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:It's probable that they would be one of the med host server still since they just dropped under the high threshold and relink in probably 2.5 weeks, but diving from full to med in 2 months says their alliance probably left or stop playing. Have a friend on there but I haven't been logging on much in the last 3 weeks to ask what's going on.

TLR went to FC. Doc probably not far behind.

Doc went DH

[nthmetal.9652]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Warclaw destroyed small-scale and havoc, not ganking.No longer can a skillgroup of 3-5 (VERY different from being a gank group) have any real map presence since the enemy blob can respond instantly to structure threats, and with the bonus effective player health, it's easier to buy time and defend than prior. It also further punishes solo roamers trying to make make plays because combat potential/engage potential as a lone attacker is less effective in order to kill an enemy to claim the objective or deny counter-siege.

Mounts ONLY improved the experience for people who ktrain.

That also not true. While of course the enemy zerg can react faster thanks to warclaw, so can the own zerg and so can the havoc squads. I have roamed successfully with 3-5 other players on other maps using the warclaw, using its speed and mobility to strike and take towers, where the enemy wasn't expecting it. And if they ever show up, you just spawnport and strike elsewhere. The warclaw has reduced the hassle and lost time from running to objectives significantly.

The problem when you can't do anything with a havov squad is, if your server lacks proper pressure on the main enemy zerg, and IMO that should be that way. You should not be able to out-PPT a server, who has superior presence on every map.So the thing that kills havoc squads on your server (whichever server that is - I am not referring to any specific server here) is not the warclaw. It is the inability to organize and bring enough players to the table so you can build up pressure.

[SWI.4127]

Mount just does way too much. It should have 2 dodges at most, and for gods sake, remove the mount stomp. Never seen a more no-skill cheese mechanic that just ruins fights. There's no reason the mount stomp should exist.

I guess sniff is ok and they can keep the useless gate skill if they really want. Other than that, mounts should only be for mobility in between fights.

[kraai.7265]

@Mil.3562 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:A lot of dedicated players moved away from the format/game with the release of mounts.

People can kick and scream about how much they want to ride their cats and the huge surge of people who came into the mode when it launched (due to the free mount skin, not anything relevant to the mode itself), but one of the primary reasons why WvW populations have been in decline has been broken combat dynamics such as the elite specs, and mounts just dialed it to 11.

I see a lot of fake informations now that many players who like the mounts have already stopped playing or left WvW and go back to PvE. Only a handful who are still clinging onto WvW cared to defend it.

If you guys check through the history of the forum, you can see that it's always the same few forum veterans posting toxic comments and giving fake infos on how the mount killed WvW.

If you are a regular WvW players, playing WvW for hours every day over the past years, and constantly in T1 or T2 where all the actions are, Zerg fights and PPT, you will agree that powercreep and dead metas that lead to low populations every where are the only reasons why more and more players, guilds are giving up.

It has never been about the Warclaw

Please don't lie. WvWers love the Warclaw. But, gankers on the other hand, have been trying very hard to kill it since it's launch in Feb. Warclaws took away their only fun of jumping on unsuspecting players, forcing fights on support build players.

These players mostly mained non meta classes, they are not welcomed in zergs or organised group fights and hence they make the most noise in the forum, asking for nerfs and more.

Please stop spreading fake informatons to new players or players who want to try this mode. Your Gankers Mode is back. Go enjoy.

oh cmon m8 so much hypocrecy, have you seen all the post from zergers who are sick of getting structures perma defended, because foes reach it so fast in those stupid cats it became a infinite fight? or the ones about players complaining they can't ninja anything or distract larger zergs long enough to capture something, because they move so fast and fights are either so long (because of power and sustain creep) or so short (population issues) they have enough time to defend both points one after the other?or how about those about commanders that are sick of chasing enemy zergs all over the map because this zergs just focus on capturing and moving on and not defending (blackgate style)also i love how the few players that actually defend that huge mistake always talk about gankers, but every problem i listed above translate to camps and even sentries, so it hitted roamers too not only zergers, or those infamous gankers you talk aboutand one last funny fact, since they released this new demount skill, between that and the population troubles now the ganking problem is even worst, 10 man groups standing right outside wp waiting to hunt any player stupid enough to go out...only now, thanks to your beloved mounts escaping is impossible, because as soon as one of those dismounts you the rest are running towards you in that stupid thing...

[kraai.7265]

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Warclaw destroyed small-scale and havoc, not ganking.No longer can a skillgroup of 3-5 (VERY different from being a gank group) have any real map presence since the enemy blob can respond instantly to structure threats, and with the bonus effective player health, it's easier to buy time and defend than prior. It also further punishes solo roamers trying to make make plays because combat potential/engage potential as a lone attacker is less effective in order to kill an enemy to claim the objective or deny counter-siege.

Mounts ONLY improved the experience for people who ktrain.

That also not true. While of course the enemy zerg can react faster thanks to warclaw, so can the own zerg and so can the havoc squads. I have roamed

successfully

with 3-5 other players on other maps using the warclaw, using its speed and mobility to strike and take towers, where the enemy wasn't expecting it. And if they ever show up, you just spawnport and strike elsewhere. The warclaw has reduced the hassle and lost time from running to objectives

significantly

.

looooool, can't stop laughing about this one, don't you see thats the problem with this game mode? we are in an

OPEN WOLRD PVP ZONE

yet players prefer to go pve style farm empty houses kill some npc, and don't worry if someone catches us we can just wp or run away in our fancy cats, like wtf are you thinking, why dont you just go back to pve, rewards are better and you will be doing the same, you even have 8 mounts there to swap anytimeThe problem when you can't do anything with a havov squad is, if your server lacks proper pressure on the main enemy zerg, and IMO that should be that way. You should not be able to out-PPT a server, who has superior presence on every map.So the thing that kills havoc squads on your server (whichever server that is - I am not referring to any specific server here) is not the warclaw. It is the inability to organize and bring enough players to the table so you can build up pressure.

this is ridiculous too, before mounts havoc groups and smaller zergs could fight against bigger worlds with more population, distracting them, taking them, holding them on certain points of the map, fighting smart, or even ninja capturing everything they can as fast as they can, they had time to do it, now zergs move so fast you can't do none of those

you claim people don't organize their population, but have you thought the possibility sometimes most of the servers don't even have enough people to organize or sustain a non stop fight with the bigger servers? plus i play against blackgate, and idk if you know their playstyle, ive never been so bored than trying to hold those guys, whenever you preassure them they just hide in keeps and fight from the door, literally they can be 3 to 1 and still stand on the portal to just bait and survive, this game became so lame

[SkyShroud.2865]

Another reason why this game is so non-competitive is because of the censorship, how anet always censor any so-called attacks on guilds. They also removed the match up forums.

The thing about WvW or PvP in general, it is also a politic game. Sometimes, it is just essential to call out the guilds and people, even if naming them, for their bad points. Like they are bandwagoning, tanking whatever. If you don't ever call out people for doing all of that, people will just keep doing it. It is basically like a child doing something they think is right because nobody tell him/her is wrong. This politic thing also help motivate people, be it driven by hate or ego. Gw2 try to be family friendly and this family friendliness doesn't encourage competition. What you have in the end is anti-competition behaviors and culture. In other word, a pve game.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Mil.3562 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:A lot of dedicated players moved away from the format/game with the release of mounts.

People can kick and scream about how much they want to ride their cats and the huge surge of people who came into the mode when it launched (due to the free mount skin, not anything relevant to the mode itself), but one of the primary reasons why WvW populations have been in decline has been broken combat dynamics such as the elite specs, and mounts just dialed it to 11.

I see a lot of fake informations now that many players who like the mounts have already stopped playing or left WvW and go back to PvE. Only a handful who are still clinging onto WvW cared to defend it.

If you guys check through the history of the forum, you can see that it's always the same few forum veterans posting toxic comments and giving fake infos on how the mount killed WvW.

If you are a regular WvW players, playing WvW for hours every day over the past years, and constantly in T1 or T2 where all the actions are, Zerg fights and PPT, you will agree that powercreep and dead metas that lead to low populations every where are the only reasons why more and more players, guilds are giving up.

It has never been about the Warclaw

Please don't lie. WvWers love the Warclaw. But, gankers on the other hand, have been trying very hard to kill it since it's launch in Feb. Warclaws took away their only fun of jumping on unsuspecting players, forcing fights on support build players.

These players mostly mained non meta classes, they are not welcomed in zergs or organised group fights and hence they make the most noise in the forum, asking for nerfs and more.

Please stop spreading fake informatons to new players or players who want to try this mode. Your Gankers Mode is back. Go enjoy.

Warclaw destroyed small-scale and havoc, not ganking.

Weird. My guildies and I small scale frequently and its only made it easier due to the speed of the transport. One of us used to main nec and has gone back to it now they can keep up. Def didnt destroy it.

[MELORD.5013]

It's probable that they would be one of the med host server still since they just dropped under the high threshold and relink in probably 2.5 weeks, but diving from full to med in 2 months says their alliance probably left or stop playing. Have a friend on there but I haven't been logging on much in the last 3 weeks to ask what's going on.SF had some guilds like Dusk and CL i think they moved away they only had EST cover the rest is a ghost town i feel bad fr thembut being a med doesn't mean it's ded just look at mag

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

@knite.1542 said:Don't worry, alliances are coming. They will fix all of this. We just have to be patient.

2017 : Don't worry, alliances are coming. They will fix all of this. We just have to be patient.2018 : Don't worry, alliances are coming. They will fix all of this. We just have to be patient.August 2019: Don't worry, alliances are coming. They will fix all of this. We just have to be patient.

[nthmetal.9652]

@kraai.7265 said:looooool, can't stop laughing about this one, don't you see thats the problem with this game mode? we are in an OPEN WOLRD PVP ZONE yet players prefer to go pve style farm empty houses kill some npc, and don't worry if someone catches us we can just wp or run away in our fancy cats, like kitten are you thinking, why dont you just go back to pve, rewards are better and you will be doing the same, you even have 8 mounts there to swap anytime

I am happy I was able to amuse you, even though I don't share your opinion... like, at all. But that's what a forum like this is for, right?I see nothing wrong with PPTing, it can be very relaxing. Now for the following I can obviously only speak for myself, other players will have their own opinions and reasons, but I play WvW, because I can do so many things here:

• relaxed PPT
• huge zerg battles open field
• fight around objectives
• GvG
• small-scale group fights

I do have my preferences, usually centered around zerg-scenarios. Some servers seem to like PPT hardcore, avoiding fights (but maybe they are just avoiding fights against servers against whose zergs they repeatedly could not win against in the past), some servers like to siege up hardcore and defend objectives they captured, some servers seem to be about hardcore fighting. And WvW has all of that. For me most of the scenarios I enjoy have to do with other players, relaxed PPT is the only scenario / context where I am not actively looking forward for fights.And that's also why I don't go to PvE for these things: I don't have this mix in PvE. Furthermore I see a lot of - to me - annoying stuff in PvE (which I am not saying you have to do). A lot of repetitive stuff. In WvW, there is always surprises.I imagine it's like this for a lot of players. I also imagine this forum is not a correct representation of the GW2 player base or even the WvW player base, because the communication I see here is very different from what I actually experience in game.

The problem when you can't do anything with a havov squad is, if your server lacks proper pressure on the main enemy zerg, and IMO that should be that way. You should not be able to out-PPT a server, who has superior presence on every map.So the thing that kills havoc squads on your server (whichever server that is - I am not referring to any specific server here) is not the warclaw. It is the inability to organize and bring enough players to the table so you can build up pressure.

this is ridiculous too, before mounts havoc groups and smaller zergs could fight against bigger worlds with more population, distracting them, taking them, holding them on certain points of the map, fighting smart, or even ninja capturing everything they can as fast as they can, they had time to do it, now zergs move so fast you can't do none of those

And I find this post impossible to believe, because just yesterday (or maybe it was the day before that) my server held on to enemy hills, while another group of ours tried to capture the fire keep on another map. At the same time, the actions we did served to keep our home border somewhat safe from bigger blobs. We had one big zerg and a small havoc group.The same evening, after the hills got flipped, we attacked them to flip them back, and the garrison at the same time with a smaller group. And guess what? We made it into the garri and later on we were able to take it. Because we had a havoc squad supporting the main zerg.If it doesn't work for you, you might not be doing it properly.

you claim people don't organize their population, but have you thought the possibility sometimes most of the servers don't even have enough people to organize or sustain a non stop fight with the bigger servers? plus i play against blackgate, and idk if you know their playstyle, ive never been so bored than trying to hold those guys, whenever you preassure them they just hide in keeps and fight from the door, literally they can be 3 to 1 and still stand on the portal to just bait and survive, this game became so lame

Yes, large population differences are definitely a problem. And you know what? While I do not find the current WvW system perfect there is a solution to it: If you cannot win in the current tier, you go down a tier. You go down until you find enemies you can face.I'd prefer a WvW system that dynamically reacts to imbalances in the current matchup, I'd prefer a WvW system that looked more of server performance instead of server population, but at least we have something that on medium timeframes serves to somehow balance out the problems.

Still needing to wait one or more weeks until this part of the game is fun again, is too long. We need a better solution.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@Excursion.9752 said:I hear what people are saying. But what I found everything is reliant on commanders. They don't even have to be great commanders. People want someone to follow. The best ones have a schedule everyone knows. Here is what happens on my server. There will be no que on a map but as soon as a particular commander comes online here lately over a 30 man que pops on that map that he is in within 5 minutes. Everyone knows he is online at the same time every night.

Blame ppl for rely on commander is like saying the problem of hungry beggars around the world is that they desire too much food.

[TheIceman.1039]

@"XenesisII.1540" said:It's probable that they would be one of the med host server still since they just dropped under the high threshold and relink in probably 2.5 weeks, but diving from full to med in 2 months says their alliance probably left or stop playing. Have a friend on there but I haven't been logging on much in the last 3 weeks to ask what's going on.

I dont know well SF guilds, but for me seems 3-4 biggest SF guilds left this week somewhere. SF is now like graveyard.edit: Info what i got, they have been seen SOS or JQ.Honestly, looking at NA activity then it would be enough to freely 9 host (3 tiers) servers and everyone else will link as needed. Tier 4 has always been problematic.Picture activity SF right now.https://upload.ee/image/10584321/SF2.jpgEBG Keep has gone 7 hours and i not remember i seen such a joke before. On any servers.Drgonbrand seems very healty, i saw 50 players blob they ran out there. NS is also abit suspicious.

[TheIceman.1039]

@Excursion.9752 said:I hear what people are saying. But what I found everything is reliant on commanders. They don't even have to be great commanders. People want someone to follow. The best ones have a schedule everyone knows. Here is what happens on my server. There will be no que on a map but as soon as a particular commander comes online here lately over a 30 man que pops on that map that he is in within 5 minutes. Everyone knows he is online at the same time every night.

What to u think how fast such a commander burn out himself? People who lead wvw (used tag and have squad certain amount people) should got waaaay better rewards if others.

[Vova.2640]

@Mil.3562 said:It has never been about the Warclaw Please don't lie. WvWers love the Warclaw. But, gankers on the other hand, have been trying very hard to kill it since it's launch in Feb. Warclaws took away their only fun of jumping on unsuspecting players, forcing fights on support build players.

Im sorry what ???

Wvw'ers do not like warclaw as it currently is. We talked about this since it was announced...

Warclaw RUINED the dynamic of combat completely. It made small size groups even harder to kill large groups cause people always stay on the warclaw to insta stomp downs.

Anet NEEDS to remove the stomp from 1 skill. THERE IS NO REASON TO HAVE THAT THERE. If they want more power vs downs, make the skill do 3x dmg to downstate players, but not instant finish. It honestly made the game LESS enjoyable overall.

Frankly the wvw population has been dropping steadily for the past few months. just looks the amount of medium (aka empty) worlds right now...Maybe warclaw didnt kill wvw, but it was the straw that broke the camels back.

[Excursion.9752]

@TheIceman.1039 said:

@Excursion.9752 said:I hear what people are saying. But what I found everything is reliant on commanders. They don't even have to be great commanders. People want someone to follow. The best ones have a schedule everyone knows. Here is what happens on my server. There will be no que on a map but as soon as a particular commander comes online here lately over a 30 man que pops on that map that he is in within 5 minutes.

Everyone knows he is online at the same time every night

.

What to u think how fast such a commander burn out himself? People who lead wvw (used tag and have squad certain amount people) should got waaaay better rewards if others.I agree with you completely. The rewards for commanding need to be better than just extra pips. The commander I follow that has a schedule has set days that he has off as well.

[MELORD.5013]

Drgonbrand seems very healty, i saw 50 players blob they ran out there.honestly i was expecting DB to fall down but SF going down was a surprise most ppl they had and guilds were playing only on EST

[Acheron.4731]

Join Ebay....The only server to have an online auction house named after it.

[MELORD.5013]

@Acheron.4731 said:Join Ebay....The only server to have an online auction house named afteranet should just merge IOJ and Ebay to Mag cuz it's been mag only vs higher servers the links were empty asfwe had to carry yr buts fr 5 weeksnext time anet give us 3 links that's better

[Acheron.4731]

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@knite.1542 said:Don't worry, alliances are coming. They will fix all of this. We just have to be patient.

2017 : Don't worry, alliances are coming. They will fix all of this. We just have to be patient.2018 : Don't worry, alliances are coming. They will fix all of this. We just have to be patient.August 2019: Don't worry, alliances are coming. They will fix all of this. We just have to be patient.

lol, it takes time to figure out how to nickel and dime a new system.took seven years to figure out how to monetize build templates....alliances should take approximately 14

[XenesisII.1540]

Imagine having two links, dropping to tier four and still bragging about carrying other servers.

[MELORD.5013]

Imagine having two links, dropping to tier four and still bragging about carrying other servers.hmmm bragging is the only thing that this game mode got left nothing else so why not

[ugrakarma.9416]

@Excursion.9752 said:

@TheIceman.1039 said:

@Excursion.9752 said:I hear what people are saying. But what I found everything is reliant on commanders. They don't even have to be great commanders. People want someone to follow. The best ones have a schedule everyone knows. Here is what happens on my server. There will be no que on a map but as soon as a particular commander comes online here lately over a 30 man que pops on that map that he is in within 5 minutes.

Everyone knows he is online at the same time every night

.

What to u think how fast such a commander burn out himself? People who lead wvw (used tag and have squad certain amount people) should got waaaay better rewards if others.I agree with you completely. The rewards for commanding need to be better than just extra pips. The commander I follow that has a schedule has set days that he has off as well.

many Commanders of WvW should be treated as legendary guys, these guys carry everything on their shoulders[guild+commanding] even server population. Anet freakness about "unequality" is another reason of the fall of this game mode.

When a commander+guild leader leave WvW its carry 50+ guys with him. On my server SoS its was happened when Rhys and others has leave.

[arielwind.8921]

I can't understand why we have to fight weaker servers like tier 1 while we have been winning in NA prime time. That could one big reason we lost lots of NA players from wvw. ArenaNet should focus more NA time balance especially depends on K/D ratio instead of PPT.