Nerf condi thief

[asterix.9614]

Yea, nerf them in wvw but they seem ok in pvp. In wvw they have that big ass space to reset as soon as they get damage, whilst they reset the player they are attacking is inflicted with a loooooong ass poison and whatever other condis.....

[babazhook.6805]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@rowdy.5107 said:Condi thieves are the easiest things to kill if you actually learn how to play against them. But most of you wont. instead, you will keep doing what you do with the same fail build getting the same results. And after the condi thief farms you in a match or two because you CHOOSE to not learn how to play against them, You come here and cry about it.Condi thief doesn't need a nerf.. YOU need a personal skill buff.

say the condi thief

He's 100% right though.

This version of condi thief is much easier to deal with than ghost thief or perplexity thieves back in the day

I want to play devils advocate and say condi thief is OP, I even made a thread about it.

But, I only have shadow step and weapon swap as my condi clear (play glass core dp) and I rarely lose to this kit.

Trying to see things from a different perspective, didn't want to be the thief defending any broken stuff.

Back when potent poison was 33/33 and the conditions of lotus training lasted twice as long, and panic strike poison lasted twice as long, people had something to complain about with legitimacy.

YOU HAVE TO SPEC MORE CLEARS WHEN YOU SEE A DAREDEVIL...

or play a spec that has no problem with it...weaver, ranger, guardian, (sometimes) warrior, another daredevil, condi mirage.

note: but I know what their rotation is and what thief animations look like by heart, so there is that...

And thats the discussion... Guardian Vs Condi Thief.

I was mostly trying to tell the other guy that every spec has a way to deal with it, Guardian most of all.

seeing as thats the class that was brought up I said DH and Core guard should be able to handle it and burst the thief quick enough to not be an issue, I was foolish enough to try and help someone with thier class until thier consistent tears revved me up to play a full pve DH build with less than 15 fps and lag so bad it makes people warp to drive the point home.

Power thief using s/x and traited acro can deal with this build with few issues. Withdraw as the heal will cleanse all the movement impairing conditions on use. Trait trickster and say goodbye to the poison and torment stacks on an under 15 seconds cooldown. Your own dodges will apply will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. Your own #2 port will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. That port will also remove a condition on use. If you are in the DD spech escapists removes a condition on dodge if an attack evaded. If the condi thief in sword uses port/dodge/dodge just dodge after the port and his impaling lotus avoided.

I also play a warrior that has plenty of cleanses to deal with that build.

This is what I call a good thief... someone not relying on condi cheese and can still be effective.

Hopefully your post helps those thieves who struggle against condi DD.

Condi daredevil is used by scrubs to kill scrubs imo.

Oh I use a condi thief as well. It a p/d build however and I find it much more effective as it does not rely on the use of #2 spam , dodge , dodge to do its work. Virtually every skill on the p/d set has its use. A predictable thief is a dead thief.

I have no problems with any thief that wants to play a certain build. My larger issue is with people who insist there nothing they can do about playing against one. There are certainly OP specs that need looking at but s/d condition is not one of them. In my mind to qualify as OP a given spec must be able to operate with impunity and will never face a spec/build that can neutralize them.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@Rogue.8235 said:So it took the thief 4 minutes and 19 seconds to kill you? I think the only way to have a longer fight is a medkit-only fight between two engineers.

Seriously though, am I interpreting this correctly? Does a tick from the full stack count as one hit or is each tick of each application of poison counted separately? If the former, then 4 minutes and 19 seconds is more than enough time to kill the thief. I cannot see a game where a 4 minute 1v1 does not turn into a gankfest for someone.

Even still, the thief had to do over 78k damage to kill you. That screams inefficiency. Less damage resulting in a death is more impressive. Dealing no damage and getting a kill would be the most impressive. Getting a kill with nothing equipped and a completely empty skill bar, by only using sheer force of will staring through the monitor and into the very eyes of your opponent would be beyond impressive, or a cheap sci-fi channel movie. I go back and forth.

If the engagement lasted over 4 min, then obviously the OP doesn't really deal any damage. Firebrand wouldn't have died to the condition thief, and neither would the dragonhunter. I imagine the OP must be playing a somewhat tanky core guardian

[Vancho.8750]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@rowdy.5107 said:Condi thieves are the easiest things to kill if you actually learn how to play against them. But most of you wont. instead, you will keep doing what you do with the same fail build getting the same results. And after the condi thief farms you in a match or two because you CHOOSE to not learn how to play against them, You come here and cry about it.Condi thief doesn't need a nerf.. YOU need a personal skill buff.

say the condi thief

He's 100% right though.

This version of condi thief is much easier to deal with than ghost thief or perplexity thieves back in the day

I want to play devils advocate and say condi thief is OP, I even made a thread about it.

But, I only have shadow step and weapon swap as my condi clear (play glass core dp) and I rarely lose to this kit.

Trying to see things from a different perspective, didn't want to be the thief defending any broken stuff.

Back when potent poison was 33/33 and the conditions of lotus training lasted twice as long, and panic strike poison lasted twice as long, people had something to complain about with legitimacy.

YOU HAVE TO SPEC MORE CLEARS WHEN YOU SEE A DAREDEVIL...

or play a spec that has no problem with it...weaver, ranger, guardian, (sometimes) warrior, another daredevil, condi mirage.

note: but I know what their rotation is and what thief animations look like by heart, so there is that...

And thats the discussion... Guardian Vs Condi Thief.

I was mostly trying to tell the other guy that every spec has a way to deal with it, Guardian most of all.

seeing as thats the class that was brought up I said DH and Core guard should be able to handle it and burst the thief quick enough to not be an issue, I was foolish enough to try and help someone with thier class until thier consistent tears revved me up to play a full pve DH build with less than 15 fps and lag so bad it makes people warp to drive the point home.

Power thief using s/x and traited acro can deal with this build with few issues. Withdraw as the heal will cleanse all the movement impairing conditions on use. Trait trickster and say goodbye to the poison and torment stacks on an under 15 seconds cooldown. Your own dodges will apply will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. Your own #2 port will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. That port will also remove a condition on use. If you are in the DD spech escapists removes a condition on dodge if an attack evaded. If the condi thief in sword uses port/dodge/dodge just dodge after the port and his impaling lotus avoided.

I also play a warrior that has plenty of cleanses to deal with that build.

This is what I call a good thief... someone not relying on condi cheese and can still be effective.

Hopefully your post helps those thieves who struggle against condi DD.

Condi daredevil is used by scrubs to kill scrubs imo.

Oh I use a condi thief as well. It a p/d build however and I find it much more effective as it does not rely on the use of #2 spam , dodge , dodge to do its work. Virtually every skill on the p/d set has its use. A predictable thief is a dead thief.

I have no problems with any thief that wants to play a certain build. My larger issue is with people who insist there nothing they can do about playing against one. There are certainly OP specs that need looking at but s/d condition is not one of them. In my mind to qualify as OP a given spec must be able to operate with impunity and will never face a spec/build that can neutralize them.It is not OP it is just cheesy, everyone knows what happen and the only way to stop is to build just for it, but that is just annoying to play the tune of someone else cause he wants to play safe lazy hit and run speck. The problem with such cheesy specks is that they invoke people to play bunker builds, and we end up in another bunker meta after.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@rowdy.5107 said:Condi thieves are the easiest things to kill if you actually learn how to play against them. But most of you wont. instead, you will keep doing what you do with the same fail build getting the same results. And after the condi thief farms you in a match or two because you CHOOSE to not learn how to play against them, You come here and cry about it.Condi thief doesn't need a nerf.. YOU need a personal skill buff.

say the condi thief

He's 100% right though.

This version of condi thief is much easier to deal with than ghost thief or perplexity thieves back in the day

I want to play devils advocate and say condi thief is OP, I even made a thread about it.

But, I only have shadow step and weapon swap as my condi clear (play glass core dp) and I rarely lose to this kit.

Trying to see things from a different perspective, didn't want to be the thief defending any broken stuff.

Back when potent poison was 33/33 and the conditions of lotus training lasted twice as long, and panic strike poison lasted twice as long, people had something to complain about with legitimacy.

YOU HAVE TO SPEC MORE CLEARS WHEN YOU SEE A DAREDEVIL...

or play a spec that has no problem with it...weaver, ranger, guardian, (sometimes) warrior, another daredevil, condi mirage.

note: but I know what their rotation is and what thief animations look like by heart, so there is that...

And thats the discussion... Guardian Vs Condi Thief.

I was mostly trying to tell the other guy that every spec has a way to deal with it, Guardian most of all.

seeing as thats the class that was brought up I said DH and Core guard should be able to handle it and burst the thief quick enough to not be an issue, I was foolish enough to try and help someone with thier class until thier consistent tears revved me up to play a full pve DH build with less than 15 fps and lag so bad it makes people warp to drive the point home.

Power thief using s/x and traited acro can deal with this build with few issues. Withdraw as the heal will cleanse all the movement impairing conditions on use. Trait trickster and say goodbye to the poison and torment stacks on an under 15 seconds cooldown. Your own dodges will apply will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. Your own #2 port will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. That port will also remove a condition on use. If you are in the DD spech escapists removes a condition on dodge if an attack evaded. If the condi thief in sword uses port/dodge/dodge just dodge after the port and his impaling lotus avoided.

I also play a warrior that has plenty of cleanses to deal with that build.

This is what I call a good thief... someone not relying on condi cheese and can still be effective.

Hopefully your post helps those thieves who struggle against condi DD.

Condi daredevil is used by scrubs to kill scrubs imo.

Oh I use a condi thief as well. It a p/d build however and I find it much more effective as it does not rely on the use of #2 spam , dodge , dodge to do its work. Virtually every skill on the p/d set has its use. A predictable thief is a dead thief.

I have no problems with any thief that wants to play a certain build. My larger issue is with people who insist there nothing they can do about playing against one. There are certainly OP specs that need looking at but s/d condition is not one of them. In my mind to qualify as OP a given spec must be able to operate with impunity and will never face a spec/build that can neutralize them.It is not OP it is just cheesy, everyone knows what happen and the only way to stop is to build just for it, but that is just annoying to play the tune of someone else cause he wants to play safe lazy hit and run speck. The problem with such cheesy specks is that they invoke people to play bunker builds, and we end up in another bunker meta after.

So it causes a meta shift basically...?Gives more viability to classes like Tempest for example? Or DH?

[SeikeNz.3526]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@rowdy.5107 said:Condi thieves are the easiest things to kill if you actually learn how to play against them. But most of you wont. instead, you will keep doing what you do with the same fail build getting the same results. And after the condi thief farms you in a match or two because you CHOOSE to not learn how to play against them, You come here and cry about it.Condi thief doesn't need a nerf.. YOU need a personal skill buff.

say the condi thief

He's 100% right though.

This version of condi thief is much easier to deal with than ghost thief or perplexity thieves back in the day

I want to play devils advocate and say condi thief is OP, I even made a thread about it.

But, I only have shadow step and weapon swap as my condi clear (play glass core dp) and I rarely lose to this kit.

Trying to see things from a different perspective, didn't want to be the thief defending any broken stuff.

Back when potent poison was 33/33 and the conditions of lotus training lasted twice as long, and panic strike poison lasted twice as long, people had something to complain about with legitimacy.

YOU HAVE TO SPEC MORE CLEARS WHEN YOU SEE A DAREDEVIL...

or play a spec that has no problem with it...weaver, ranger, guardian, (sometimes) warrior, another daredevil, condi mirage.

note: but I know what their rotation is and what thief animations look like by heart, so there is that...

And thats the discussion... Guardian Vs Condi Thief.

I was mostly trying to tell the other guy that every spec has a way to deal with it, Guardian most of all.

seeing as thats the class that was brought up I said DH and Core guard should be able to handle it and burst the thief quick enough to not be an issue, I was foolish enough to try and help someone with thier class until thier consistent tears revved me up to play a full pve DH build with less than 15 fps and lag so bad it makes people warp to drive the point home.

Power thief using s/x and traited acro can deal with this build with few issues. Withdraw as the heal will cleanse all the movement impairing conditions on use. Trait trickster and say goodbye to the poison and torment stacks on an under 15 seconds cooldown. Your own dodges will apply will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. Your own #2 port will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. That port will also remove a condition on use. If you are in the DD spech escapists removes a condition on dodge if an attack evaded. If the condi thief in sword uses port/dodge/dodge just dodge after the port and his impaling lotus avoided.

I also play a warrior that has plenty of cleanses to deal with that build.

This is what I call a good thief... someone not relying on condi cheese and can still be effective.

Hopefully your post helps those thieves who struggle against condi DD.

Condi daredevil is used by scrubs to kill scrubs imo.

Oh I use a condi thief as well. It a p/d build however and I find it much more effective as it does not rely on the use of #2 spam , dodge , dodge to do its work. Virtually every skill on the p/d set has its use. A predictable thief is a dead thief.

I have no problems with any thief that wants to play a certain build. My larger issue is with people who insist there nothing they can do about playing against one. There are certainly OP specs that need looking at but s/d condition is not one of them. In my mind to qualify as OP a given spec must be able to operate with impunity and will never face a spec/build that can neutralize them.It is not OP it is just cheesy, everyone knows what happen and the only way to stop is to build just for it, but that is just annoying to play the tune of someone else cause he wants to play safe lazy hit and run speck. The problem with such cheesy specks is that they invoke people to play bunker builds, and we end up in another bunker meta after.

So it causes a meta shift basically...?Gives more viability to classes like Tempest for example? Or DH?

you know when a class is OP and out of control when they force you play a build just to counter it, do you have to build to counter a tempest, do you have to build to counter a ranger, do you have to build to counter a necro, do you have to build to counter a reg/rev? NO, the thief can play and build whatever they want while other classes have to build just for a condi thief, so it's OP

[sephiroth.4217]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@rowdy.5107 said:Condi thieves are the easiest things to kill if you actually learn how to play against them. But most of you wont. instead, you will keep doing what you do with the same fail build getting the same results. And after the condi thief farms you in a match or two because you CHOOSE to not learn how to play against them, You come here and cry about it.Condi thief doesn't need a nerf.. YOU need a personal skill buff.

say the condi thief

He's 100% right though.

This version of condi thief is much easier to deal with than ghost thief or perplexity thieves back in the day

I want to play devils advocate and say condi thief is OP, I even made a thread about it.

But, I only have shadow step and weapon swap as my condi clear (play glass core dp) and I rarely lose to this kit.

Trying to see things from a different perspective, didn't want to be the thief defending any broken stuff.

Back when potent poison was 33/33 and the conditions of lotus training lasted twice as long, and panic strike poison lasted twice as long, people had something to complain about with legitimacy.

YOU HAVE TO SPEC MORE CLEARS WHEN YOU SEE A DAREDEVIL...

or play a spec that has no problem with it...weaver, ranger, guardian, (sometimes) warrior, another daredevil, condi mirage.

note: but I know what their rotation is and what thief animations look like by heart, so there is that...

And thats the discussion... Guardian Vs Condi Thief.

I was mostly trying to tell the other guy that every spec has a way to deal with it, Guardian most of all.

seeing as thats the class that was brought up I said DH and Core guard should be able to handle it and burst the thief quick enough to not be an issue, I was foolish enough to try and help someone with thier class until thier consistent tears revved me up to play a full pve DH build with less than 15 fps and lag so bad it makes people warp to drive the point home.

Power thief using s/x and traited acro can deal with this build with few issues. Withdraw as the heal will cleanse all the movement impairing conditions on use. Trait trickster and say goodbye to the poison and torment stacks on an under 15 seconds cooldown. Your own dodges will apply will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. Your own #2 port will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. That port will also remove a condition on use. If you are in the DD spech escapists removes a condition on dodge if an attack evaded. If the condi thief in sword uses port/dodge/dodge just dodge after the port and his impaling lotus avoided.

I also play a warrior that has plenty of cleanses to deal with that build.

This is what I call a good thief... someone not relying on condi cheese and can still be effective.

Hopefully your post helps those thieves who struggle against condi DD.

Condi daredevil is used by scrubs to kill scrubs imo.

Oh I use a condi thief as well. It a p/d build however and I find it much more effective as it does not rely on the use of #2 spam , dodge , dodge to do its work. Virtually every skill on the p/d set has its use. A predictable thief is a dead thief.

I have no problems with any thief that wants to play a certain build. My larger issue is with people who insist there nothing they can do about playing against one. There are certainly OP specs that need looking at but s/d condition is not one of them. In my mind to qualify as OP a given spec must be able to operate with impunity and will never face a spec/build that can neutralize them.It is not OP it is just cheesy, everyone knows what happen and the only way to stop is to build just for it, but that is just annoying to play the tune of someone else cause he wants to play safe lazy hit and run speck. The problem with such cheesy specks is that they invoke people to play bunker builds, and we end up in another bunker meta after.

So it causes a meta shift basically...?Gives more viability to classes like Tempest for example? Or DH?

you know when a class is OP and out of control when they force you play a build just to counter it.

So like using Rock to beat Scissors?

do you have to build to counter a tempest,

Well if you're playing a condi build you don't have too because you can avoid the team fights where the Tempest is AoE cleansing like a mad man.

do you have to build to counter a ranger

I do.. especially if the other team has 2.

do you have to build to counter a necro,

I do, I take more condition cleansing and rely less on my boons.

do you have to build to counter a reg/rev?

Sort of.. they fit in with holo/war/thief for me and I rely on forms of blocks.

NO, the thief can play and build whatever they want while other classes have to build just for a condi thief, so it's OP

That's not op... this is basically switching it up a bit with a meta shift. 1 class forces another to adapt and that forces another. Old builds become absolete and new builds or even specs that only a few stuck with get a spot light again.

[babazhook.6805]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@"rowdy.5107" said:Condi thieves are the easiest things to kill if you actually learn how to play against them. But most of you wont. instead, you will keep doing what you do with the same fail build getting the same results. And after the condi thief farms you in a match or two because you CHOOSE to not learn how to play against them, You come here and cry about it.Condi thief doesn't need a nerf.. YOU need a personal skill buff.

say the condi thief

He's 100% right though.

This version of condi thief is much easier to deal with than ghost thief or perplexity thieves back in the day

I want to play devils advocate and say condi thief is OP, I even made a thread about it.

But, I only have shadow step and weapon swap as my condi clear (play glass core dp) and I rarely lose to this kit.

Trying to see things from a different perspective, didn't want to be the thief defending any broken stuff.

Back when potent poison was 33/33 and the conditions of lotus training lasted twice as long, and panic strike poison lasted twice as long, people had something to complain about with legitimacy.

YOU HAVE TO SPEC MORE CLEARS WHEN YOU SEE A DAREDEVIL...

or play a spec that has no problem with it...weaver, ranger, guardian, (sometimes) warrior, another daredevil, condi mirage.

note: but I know what their rotation is and what thief animations look like by heart, so there is that...

And thats the discussion... Guardian Vs Condi Thief.

I was mostly trying to tell the other guy that every spec has a way to deal with it, Guardian most of all.

seeing as thats the class that was brought up I said DH and Core guard should be able to handle it and burst the thief quick enough to not be an issue, I was foolish enough to try and help someone with thier class until thier consistent tears revved me up to play a full pve DH build with less than 15 fps and lag so bad it makes people warp to drive the point home.

Power thief using s/x and traited acro can deal with this build with few issues. Withdraw as the heal will cleanse all the movement impairing conditions on use. Trait trickster and say goodbye to the poison and torment stacks on an under 15 seconds cooldown. Your own dodges will apply will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. Your own #2 port will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. That port will also remove a condition on use. If you are in the DD spech escapists removes a condition on dodge if an attack evaded. If the condi thief in sword uses port/dodge/dodge just dodge after the port and his impaling lotus avoided.

I also play a warrior that has plenty of cleanses to deal with that build.

This is what I call a good thief... someone not relying on condi cheese and can still be effective.

Hopefully your post helps those thieves who struggle against condi DD.

Condi daredevil is used by scrubs to kill scrubs imo.

Oh I use a condi thief as well. It a p/d build however and I find it much more effective as it does not rely on the use of #2 spam , dodge , dodge to do its work. Virtually every skill on the p/d set has its use. A predictable thief is a dead thief.

I have no problems with any thief that wants to play a certain build. My larger issue is with people who insist there nothing they can do about playing against one. There are certainly OP specs that need looking at but s/d condition is not one of them. In my mind to qualify as OP a given spec must be able to operate with impunity and will never face a spec/build that can neutralize them.It is not OP it is just cheesy, everyone knows what happen and the only way to stop is to build just for it, but that is just annoying to play the tune of someone else cause he wants to play safe lazy hit and run speck. The problem with such cheesy specks is that they invoke people to play bunker builds, and we end up in another bunker meta after.

I changed little in my existing power thief build to deal with the "new" condition thief. I changed nothing in my existing warrior build to deal with condition thief. What I did instead was play those builds, find out how they worked, found out how they were countered by players who take the time to learn to deal with them and adjusted tactics accordingly. Your "annoyance" means nothing here. Annoyance is subjective and everyone is "annoyed" by different things. On any build you care to name i can claim "annoyance" when facing it.

As to lazy hit and run spec, what I deem lazy is entirely different then you. I deem lazy someone who does not want to learn how to deal with those specs. What I deem lazy is a person who will not change their builds in the slightest when the one they found on meta battle is poor when dealing against specific builds. What I deem lazy is someone expecting a build that deals well against another power build to perform just as well with the same tactics and traits when facing a condition build. Learning how to deal with these specs, how to adjust tactics on the fly, how to tweak a build so it can mitigate the strengths of another all take time and practice. Lazy people , in my opinion , just do not want to do that. They run to the boards and whine and demand ANET change things so that they do not have to be the ones making changes.

[Poledra Val.1490]

Lets be clear here, the bottom line is this. The condie thief build in general is just simply unhealthy for the game in PvP and is pure gimmick/busted/lazy on so many levels. You cant justify a build when you dodge and maybe press an extra button or two to be that effective or forward thinking for pvp, it sets a bad precedent.

There are many players out there who I have seen who have played another class for years and have simply defaulted to Condie Thief because A: its effective and B: it probably has the lowest skill cealing of any build i have seen in years bar some Mesmer builds.

Anet needs to nerf this abomination to the ground and then start working on doing some sort of "balance".

[Kumouta.4985]

condi mirage is just condi thief but better tho

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Buff condi teeforoni:)

[sephiroth.4217]

@"Poledra Val.1490" said:Lets be clear here, the bottom line is this. The condie thief build in general is just simply unhealthy for the game in PvP and is pure gimmick/busted/lazy on so many levels. You cant justify a build when you dodge and maybe press an extra button or two to be that effective or forward thinking for pvp, it sets a bad precedent.

ok that makes more sense I guess... They did nerf trap guardian because it was killing bronzes and silvers a little too easily.unfortunately giving these handouts to players doesn't encourage players to get better or to learn the basics.

There are many players out there who I have seen who have played another class for years and have simply defaulted to Condie Thief because A: its effective and B: it probably has the lowest skill cealing of any build i have seen in years bar some Mesmer builds.or C: trying the build out to find its weaknesses to play against the class better but then again who knows, we cant speak on behalf of others.

Anet needs to nerf this abomination to the ground and then start working on doing some sort of "balance".

balance is different from person to person... balance to me is all classes being viable such as condi thief. balance to others is simply defined by what beats thier main or by what annoys them the most.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@rowdy.5107 said:Condi thieves are the easiest things to kill if you actually learn how to play against them. But most of you wont. instead, you will keep doing what you do with the same fail build getting the same results. And after the condi thief farms you in a match or two because you CHOOSE to not learn how to play against them, You come here and cry about it.Condi thief doesn't need a nerf.. YOU need a personal skill buff.

say the condi thief

He's 100% right though.

This version of condi thief is much easier to deal with than ghost thief or perplexity thieves back in the day

I want to play devils advocate and say condi thief is OP, I even made a thread about it.

But, I only have shadow step and weapon swap as my condi clear (play glass core dp) and I rarely lose to this kit.

Trying to see things from a different perspective, didn't want to be the thief defending any broken stuff.

Back when potent poison was 33/33 and the conditions of lotus training lasted twice as long, and panic strike poison lasted twice as long, people had something to complain about with legitimacy.

YOU HAVE TO SPEC MORE CLEARS WHEN YOU SEE A DAREDEVIL...

or play a spec that has no problem with it...weaver, ranger, guardian, (sometimes) warrior, another daredevil, condi mirage.

note: but I know what their rotation is and what thief animations look like by heart, so there is that...

And thats the discussion... Guardian Vs Condi Thief.

I was mostly trying to tell the other guy that every spec has a way to deal with it, Guardian most of all.

seeing as thats the class that was brought up I said DH and Core guard should be able to handle it and burst the thief quick enough to not be an issue, I was foolish enough to try and help someone with thier class until thier consistent tears revved me up to play a full pve DH build with less than 15 fps and lag so bad it makes people warp to drive the point home.

Power thief using s/x and traited acro can deal with this build with few issues. Withdraw as the heal will cleanse all the movement impairing conditions on use. Trait trickster and say goodbye to the poison and torment stacks on an under 15 seconds cooldown. Your own dodges will apply will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. Your own #2 port will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. That port will also remove a condition on use. If you are in the DD spech escapists removes a condition on dodge if an attack evaded. If the condi thief in sword uses port/dodge/dodge just dodge after the port and his impaling lotus avoided.

I also play a warrior that has plenty of cleanses to deal with that build.

This is what I call a good thief... someone not relying on condi cheese and can still be effective.

Hopefully your post helps those thieves who struggle against condi DD.

Condi daredevil is used by scrubs to kill scrubs imo.

Oh I use a condi thief as well. It a p/d build however and I find it much more effective as it does not rely on the use of #2 spam , dodge , dodge to do its work. Virtually every skill on the p/d set has its use. A predictable thief is a dead thief.

I have no problems with any thief that wants to play a certain build. My larger issue is with people who insist there nothing they can do about playing against one. There are certainly OP specs that need looking at but s/d condition is not one of them. In my mind to qualify as OP a given spec must be able to operate with impunity and will never face a spec/build that can neutralize them.

It's build like yours why I dont want them to target traits, but go after the cheese weapon.

[babazhook.6805]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@"rowdy.5107" said:Condi thieves are the easiest things to kill if you actually learn how to play against them. But most of you wont. instead, you will keep doing what you do with the same fail build getting the same results. And after the condi thief farms you in a match or two because you CHOOSE to not learn how to play against them, You come here and cry about it.Condi thief doesn't need a nerf.. YOU need a personal skill buff.

say the condi thief

He's 100% right though.

This version of condi thief is much easier to deal with than ghost thief or perplexity thieves back in the day

I want to play devils advocate and say condi thief is OP, I even made a thread about it.

But, I only have shadow step and weapon swap as my condi clear (play glass core dp) and I rarely lose to this kit.

Trying to see things from a different perspective, didn't want to be the thief defending any broken stuff.

Back when potent poison was 33/33 and the conditions of lotus training lasted twice as long, and panic strike poison lasted twice as long, people had something to complain about with legitimacy.

YOU HAVE TO SPEC MORE CLEARS WHEN YOU SEE A DAREDEVIL...

or play a spec that has no problem with it...weaver, ranger, guardian, (sometimes) warrior, another daredevil, condi mirage.

note: but I know what their rotation is and what thief animations look like by heart, so there is that...

And thats the discussion... Guardian Vs Condi Thief.

I was mostly trying to tell the other guy that every spec has a way to deal with it, Guardian most of all.

seeing as thats the class that was brought up I said DH and Core guard should be able to handle it and burst the thief quick enough to not be an issue, I was foolish enough to try and help someone with thier class until thier consistent tears revved me up to play a full pve DH build with less than 15 fps and lag so bad it makes people warp to drive the point home.

Power thief using s/x and traited acro can deal with this build with few issues. Withdraw as the heal will cleanse all the movement impairing conditions on use. Trait trickster and say goodbye to the poison and torment stacks on an under 15 seconds cooldown. Your own dodges will apply will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. Your own #2 port will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. That port will also remove a condition on use. If you are in the DD spech escapists removes a condition on dodge if an attack evaded. If the condi thief in sword uses port/dodge/dodge just dodge after the port and his impaling lotus avoided.

I also play a warrior that has plenty of cleanses to deal with that build.

This is what I call a good thief... someone not relying on condi cheese and can still be effective.

Hopefully your post helps those thieves who struggle against condi DD.

Condi daredevil is used by scrubs to kill scrubs imo.

Oh I use a condi thief as well. It a p/d build however and I find it much more effective as it does not rely on the use of #2 spam , dodge , dodge to do its work. Virtually every skill on the p/d set has its use. A predictable thief is a dead thief.

I have no problems with any thief that wants to play a certain build. My larger issue is with people who insist there nothing they can do about playing against one. There are certainly OP specs that need looking at but s/d condition is not one of them. In my mind to qualify as OP a given spec must be able to operate with impunity and will never face a spec/build that can neutralize them.

It's build like yours why I dont want them to target traits, but go after the cheese weapon.

I play and have every combination of weapons on my various thieves from power to Condition to hybrid. If I had to give my opinion after much gameplay as to which one of those sets I use ALL of the 5 skills with PLUS the stealth it would be p/d. That one reason why I like playing it. Most of the other sets see skills that are totally ignored or rarely used.

This in combination with the fact that we have to manage our INI when using all of those skills makes the thief fun to play and the fact is that managing INI properly is a skill that the people that complain about "spam one skill and win" do not understand. When using one of those other professions and a skill on cooldown there no choice to be made as to whether one should use that skill. If it on cool down it can not be used. On thief you always have to make that choice and on the fly.

By the same token those facing the thief very often just do not understand that to win you have to make that thief expend INI to no avail. It not like you are doing a dodge or a block just to evade damage from those big burst hits, you are doing them so INI is wasted.

[MyPuppy.8970]

It may be a silly question, but is initiative affected by chill?

[Poledra Val.1490]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"Poledra Val.1490" said:Lets be clear here, the bottom line is this. The condie thief build in general is just simply unhealthy for the game in PvP and is pure gimmick/busted/lazy on so many levels. You cant justify a build when you dodge and maybe press an extra button or two to be that effective or forward thinking for pvp, it sets a bad precedent.

ok that makes more sense I guess... They did nerf trap guardian because it was killing bronzes and silvers a little too easily.unfortunately giving these handouts to players doesn't encourage players to get better or to learn the basics.

There are many players out there who I have seen who have played another class for years and have simply defaulted to Condie Thief because A: its effective and B: it probably has the lowest skill cealing of any build i have seen in years bar some Mesmer builds.or C: trying the build out to find its weaknesses to play against the class better but then again who knows, we cant speak on behalf of others.

Anet needs to nerf this abomination to the ground and then start working on doing some sort of "balance".

balance is different from person to person... balance to me is all classes being viable such as condi thief. balance to others is simply defined by what beats thier main or by what annoys them the most.

Condie thief is not just viable its braindead broken honestly, I can accept viability in every class that is normal but when your talking about a build that specifically and consistently is being picked by the vast populace then you know there is something wrong there and quite clearly there is.

[rowdy.5107]

^^^ all these tears from people that have little to ZERO pvp skills make me so happy :) either learn to ADAPT to the new condi thief meta, or get left in the dust by people that actually know how to counter them.which is VERY easy!

[Duiz.6042]

@rowdy.5107 said:^^^ all these tears from people that have little to ZERO pvp skills make me so happy :) either learn to ADAPT to the new condi thief meta, or get left in the dust by people that actually know how to counter them.which is VERY easy!

Top players are the first ones to state that condi thief is aids. The ratio skill/impact on the game is completely absurd.

P.S: im leg player and yes, i know how to handle condi thief

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Poledra Val.1490 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Poledra Val.1490 said:Lets be clear here, the bottom line is this. The condie thief build in general is just simply unhealthy for the game in PvP and is pure gimmick/busted/lazy on so many levels. You cant justify a build when you dodge and maybe press an extra button or two to be that effective or forward thinking for pvp, it sets a bad precedent.

ok that makes more sense I guess... They did nerf trap guardian because it was killing bronzes and silvers a little too easily.unfortunately giving these handouts to players doesn't encourage players to get better or to learn the basics.

There are many players out there who I have seen who have played another class for years and have simply defaulted to Condie Thief because A: its effective and B: it probably has the lowest skill cealing of any build i have seen in years bar some Mesmer builds.or C: trying the build out to find its weaknesses to play against the class better but then again who knows, we cant speak on behalf of others.

Anet needs to nerf this abomination to the ground and then start working on doing some sort of "balance".

balance is different from person to person... balance to me is all classes being viable such as condi thief. balance to others is simply defined by what beats thier main or by what annoys them the most.

Condie thief is not just viable its braindead broken honestly, I can accept viability in every class that is normal but when your talking about a build that specifically and consistently is being picked by the vast populace then you know there is something wrong there and quite clearly there is.

so, nerf holo right?

[rowdy.5107]

@Duiz.6042 said:

@rowdy.5107 said:^^^ all these tears from people that have little to ZERO pvp skills make me so happy :) either learn to ADAPT to the new condi thief meta, or get left in the dust by people that actually know how to counter them.which is VERY easy!

Top players are the first ones to state that condi thief is aids. The ratio skill/impact on the game is completely absurd.

P.S: im leg player and yes, i know how to handle condi thief

S/D thief is a 1 trick pony. If you understand that the S/D thief has only 1 burst in a 25 second cooldown. You can easily cleanse and counter it. As a S/D condi thief, when I go up against a (insert class here) that knows what they are doing. I quickly realize I cant scratch this person. So I move on to somebody that doesn't know how to counter, and farm them.D/D condi thief is a different story. You need to learn to survive and actually fight them. Because they are designed to win all 1v1 encounters no matter what class you are.Learn your skill rotations, learn cleansing and know that if you are facing a S/D thief. He only has ONE trick. Use that against him.D/D condi thief, learn cleanse and try to stay away from them in a fight. They want to be in your face. Don't give them that opportunity or you will lose.

[Duiz.6042]

@rowdy.5107 said:

@Duiz.6042 said:

@rowdy.5107 said:^^^ all these tears from people that have little to ZERO pvp skills make me so happy :) either learn to ADAPT to the new condi thief meta, or get left in the dust by people that actually know how to counter them.which is VERY easy!

Top players are the first ones to state that condi thief is aids. The ratio skill/impact on the game is completely absurd.

P.S: im leg player and yes,

i know how to handle condi thief

S/D thief is a 1 trick pony. If you understand that the S/D thief has only 1 burst in a 25 second cooldown. You can easily cleanse and counter it. As a S/D condi thief, when I go up against a (insert class here) that knows what they are doing. I quickly realize I cant scratch this person. So I move on to somebody that doesn't know how to counter, and farm them.D/D condi thief is a different story. You need to learn to survive and actually fight them. Because they are designed to win all 1v1 encounters no matter what class you are.Learn your skill rotations, learn cleansing and know that if you are facing a S/D thief. He only has ONE trick. Use that against him.D/D condi thief, learn cleanse and try to stay away from them in a fight. They want to be in your face. Don't give them that opportunity or you will lose.

Ok, you just don't read,.

[Poledra Val.1490]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Poledra Val.1490 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Poledra Val.1490 said:Lets be clear here, the bottom line is this. The condie thief build in general is just simply unhealthy for the game in PvP and is pure gimmick/busted/lazy on so many levels. You cant justify a build when you dodge and maybe press an extra button or two to be that effective or forward thinking for pvp, it sets a bad precedent.

ok that makes more sense I guess... They did nerf trap guardian because it was killing bronzes and silvers a little too easily.unfortunately giving these handouts to players doesn't encourage players to get better or to learn the basics.

There are many players out there who I have seen who have played another class for years and have simply defaulted to Condie Thief because A: its effective and B: it probably has the lowest skill cealing of any build i have seen in years bar some Mesmer builds.or C: trying the build out to find its weaknesses to play against the class better but then again who knows, we cant speak on behalf of others.

Anet needs to nerf this abomination to the ground and then start working on doing some sort of "balance".

balance is different from person to person... balance to me is all classes being viable such as condi thief. balance to others is simply defined by what beats thier main or by what annoys them the most.

Condie thief is not just viable its braindead broken honestly, I can accept viability in every class that is normal but when your talking about a build that specifically and consistently is being picked by the vast populace then you know there is something wrong there and quite clearly there is.

so, nerf holo right?

Since this thread is about the current Condie Thief iteration I wont comment to much on holo, obviously it needs some nerfs even people who play holos themsleves are aware of it.

[Koen.1327]

@Duiz.6042 said:

@rowdy.5107 said:

@Duiz.6042 said:

@rowdy.5107 said:^^^ all these tears from people that have little to ZERO pvp skills make me so happy :) either learn to ADAPT to the new condi thief meta, or get left in the dust by people that actually know how to counter them.which is VERY easy!

Top players are the first ones to state that condi thief is aids. The ratio skill/impact on the game is completely absurd.

P.S: im leg player and yes,

i know how to handle condi thief

S/D thief is a 1 trick pony. If you understand that the S/D thief has only 1 burst in a 25 second cooldown. You can easily cleanse and counter it. As a S/D condi thief, when I go up against a (insert class here) that knows what they are doing. I quickly realize I cant scratch this person. So I move on to somebody that doesn't know how to counter, and farm them.D/D condi thief is a different story. You need to learn to survive and actually fight them. Because they are designed to win all 1v1 encounters no matter what class you are.Learn your skill rotations, learn cleansing and know that if you are facing a S/D thief. He only has ONE trick. Use that against him.D/D condi thief, learn cleanse and try to stay away from them in a fight. They want to be in your face. Don't give them that opportunity or you will lose.

Ok, you just don't read,.

You have to take in consideration that is gold rating and lower its the norm to die in under 20 seconds with an average deaths of 8+ per game.This makes s/d condi less oppressive cuz there isnt much to +, nobody will run away from losing fights which s/d usually finishes in higher rated games by pressing 1 button. Fights are solely limited on the node and s/d simply is less suited.Also d/d condi (which has no mobility whatsoever) can facetank on node slightly better than than s/d i guess, hence he considers that even an option.

[Crab Fear.1624]

No, this thread aint dead yet.

Time to look at sword 2.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Koen.1327 said:

@Duiz.6042 said:

@rowdy.5107 said:

@Duiz.6042 said:

@rowdy.5107 said:^^^ all these tears from people that have little to ZERO pvp skills make me so happy :) either learn to ADAPT to the new condi thief meta, or get left in the dust by people that actually know how to counter them.which is VERY easy!

Top players are the first ones to state that condi thief is aids. The ratio skill/impact on the game is completely absurd.

P.S: im leg player and yes,

i know how to handle condi thief

S/D thief is a 1 trick pony. If you understand that the S/D thief has only 1 burst in a 25 second cooldown. You can easily cleanse and counter it. As a S/D condi thief, when I go up against a (insert class here) that knows what they are doing. I quickly realize I cant scratch this person. So I move on to somebody that doesn't know how to counter, and farm them.D/D condi thief is a different story. You need to learn to survive and actually fight them. Because they are designed to win all 1v1 encounters no matter what class you are.Learn your skill rotations, learn cleansing and know that if you are facing a S/D thief. He only has ONE trick. Use that against him.D/D condi thief, learn cleanse and try to stay away from them in a fight. They want to be in your face. Don't give them that opportunity or you will lose.

Ok, you just don't read,.

You have to take in consideration that is gold rating and lower its the norm to die in under 20 seconds with an average deaths of 8+ per game.This makes s/d condi less oppressive cuz there isnt much to +, nobody will run away from losing fights which s/d usually finishes in higher rated games by pressing 1 button. Fights are solely limited on the node and s/d simply is less suited.Also d/d condi (which has no mobility whatsoever) can facetank on node slightly better than than s/d i guess, hence he considers that even an option.

D/D condi is essentially a worse staff thief.