When everything is op, nothing is op.

[Greyjoy.5167]

I see many many posts about how to balance X spec, nerf X spec, etc.Vast majority of these posts are simply whining of beaten crybabies.let's summarize our current broken op specs:-Tactic warrior

• Condi DD
• DE
• Holo
• Mirage
• Fire weaver
• Soulbeast
• Firebrand

Looks like only Necro and Rev does not have broken specs.

Not being subjective, I see a lot of diversity atm. I see burst combos, I see sustain specs, I see cheesy specs, even supports are here.

All the cry for nerfs and pseudo balance comes from being worse than a better player on a different spec.feels bad when fire weaver gets that burst window clean, right? It's your fault my friend. Want to kill that holo? Learn his skills and bait, look for the burst window, kite. Wanna kill that Warr? Better bring some friends xd, joke.

Shut up and enjoy the game already, as it was rarely as balanced and diverse than now.

[bravan.3876]

But it can still be all boring and braindead or unhealthy mechanic. When builds get so easy to play that you barely can see a difference between a good and an average player or when average player can kill clearly better player only by picking a specific build (aside from mechanical hardcounters) than something is wrong.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@"Greyjoy.5167" said:I see many many posts about how to balance X spec, nerf X spec, etc.Vast majority of these posts are simply whining of beaten crybabies.let's summarize our current broken op specs:-Tactic warrior

• Condi DD
• DE
• Holo
• Mirage
• Fire weaver
• Soulbeast
• Firebrand

Looks like only Necro and Rev does not have broken specs.

Not being subjective, I see a lot of diversity atm. I see burst combos, I see sustain specs, I see cheesy specs, even supports are here.

All the cry for nerfs and pseudo balance comes from being worse than a better player on a different spec.feels bad when fire weaver gets that burst window clean, right? It's your fault my friend. Want to kill that holo? Learn his skills and bait, look for the burst window, kite. Wanna kill that Warr? Better bring some friends xd, joke.

Shut up and enjoy the game already, as it was rarely as balanced and diverse than now.

Well, fine "we" will shut up, but don't come crying on forum that there is no one to play with. :)The real diversity would be if for example ele (be it offence, defence, support type) would be able to use minimum: Staff core, DD core, S/x core, d/x tempest, staff tempest, d/d tempest, sw/x weaver, s/x weaver, staff weaver in competetive scene.You can combine 7 trait lines in like 35 possible ways if I'm not mistaken and on top you can in each trait line have like 27 possible combinations, that's the minimum of builds every single player should be capable of creating is ~945 for 1 class, without taking into account possible runes/sigils/stats/food/weapons/skills, then we could say we have "diversity".Yours diversity: 1 maybe 2 builds for 1 whole class.My minimum expected diversity: 3 builds for core and each e-speces released until now.But it's okay, as they: "Be Happy For The Small Things", right?P.S. The game is at it's "worst" balance wise, not mentioning numerous bugs.

[verskore.4312]

The only broken things right now if you ask me is the capability high sustain and condi dmg of mirage (but that's pretty much cus design of mirage is stupid) and s/d thief which is absolutely ridiculous. All the rest is fine if you ask me, and I totally dont get why you would put DE or even soulbeast in that list :s hasnt soulbeast been nerfed enough?

[Greyjoy.5167]

@bravan.3876 said:But it can still be all boring and braindead or unhealthy mechanic. When builds get so easy to play that you barely can see a difference between a good and an average player or when average player can kill clearly better player only by picking a specific build (aside from mechanical hardcounters) than something is wrong.

Ok, where are examples? Numbers? Prove me what you said or don't say anything. I don't say you cannot be right, you just didn't provide enough to make me believe you.

[Greyjoy.5167]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@"Greyjoy.5167" said:I see many many posts about how to balance X spec, nerf X spec, etc.Vast majority of these posts are simply whining of beaten crybabies.let's summarize our current broken op specs:-Tactic warrior

• Condi DD
• DE
• Holo
• Mirage
• Fire weaver
• Soulbeast
• Firebrand

Looks like only Necro and Rev does not have broken specs.

Not being subjective, I see a lot of diversity atm. I see burst combos, I see sustain specs, I see cheesy specs, even supports are here.

All the cry for nerfs and pseudo balance comes from being worse than a better player on a different spec.feels bad when fire weaver gets that burst window clean, right? It's your fault my friend. Want to kill that holo? Learn his skills and bait, look for the burst window, kite. Wanna kill that Warr? Better bring some friends xd, joke.

Shut up and enjoy the game already, as it was rarely as balanced and diverse than now.

Well, fine "we" will shut up, but don't come crying on forum that there is no one to play with. :)The real diversity would be if for example ele (be it offence, defence, support type) would be able to use minimum: Staff core, DD core, S/x core, d/x tempest, staff tempest, d/d tempest, sw/x weaver, s/x weaver, staff weaver in competetive scene.You can combine 7 trait lines in like 35 possible ways if I'm not mistaken and on top you can in each trait line have like 27 possible combinations, that's the minimum of builds every single player should be capable of creating is ~945 for 1 class, without taking into account possible runes/sigils/stats/food/weapons/skills, then we could say we have "diversity".Yours diversity: 1 maybe 2 builds for 1 whole class.My minimum expected diversity: 3 builds for core and each e-speces released until now.But it's okay, as they: "Be Happy For The Small Things", right?P.S. The game is at it's "worst" balance wise, not mentioning numerous bugs.

There were never diversity you described. Anet devs are not capable to make it happen. You want another game bruh. You crazy man.

[Greyjoy.5167]

@verskore.4312 said:The only broken things right now if you ask me is the capability high sustain and condi dmg of mirage (but that's pretty much cus design of mirage is stupid) and s/d thief which is absolutely ridiculous. All the rest is fine if you ask me, and I totally dont get why you would put DE or even soulbeast in that list :s hasnt soulbeast been nerfed enough?

I know that everyone hates one spec the most. For you it's mirage, for me it's Warr. But truth is we are both wrong. Looking at forum gave me cancer due to how shallow players perspective is.

[bravan.3876]

@bravan.3876 said:But it can still be all boring and braindead or unhealthy mechanic. When builds get so easy to play that you barely can see a difference between a good and an average player or when average player can kill clearly better player only by picking a specific build (aside from mechanical hardcounters) than something is wrong.

That was a general statement that it still can be a braindead meta even though nothing is remarkable more lame than others. And if you need prove that it fits to gw2 atm then just look at the game and every ex esl player will tell you that the game in its current state is way to braindead spammable and survivng way to easy during still having tons of dmg. Power creep at its best in all aspects. I rly have no clue how i can prove such obvious thing to you when all you need to do is looking at the game. If you have any idea tell me and i try my best.

[Greyjoy.5167]

@bravan.3876 said:

@bravan.3876 said:But it can still be all boring and braindead or unhealthy mechanic. When builds get so easy to play that you barely can see a difference between a good and an average player or when average player can kill clearly better player only by picking a specific build (aside from mechanical hardcounters) than something is wrong.

That was a general statement that it still can be a braindead meta even though nothing is remarkable more lame than others. And if you need prove that it fits to gw2 atm then just look at the game and every ex esl player will tell you that the game in its current state is way to braindead spammable and survivng way to easy during still having tons of dmg. Power creep at its best in all aspects. I rly have no clue how i can prove such obvious thing to you when all you need to do is looking at the game. If you have any idea tell me and i try my best.

Ok, let's say I agree. How do we fix that? Because another nerf x spec is not the solution.

[Exedore.6320]

When everything is OP, everything is balanced. This is true.However, when everything is OP, nothing is fun.

The simplest analogy is that if everyone can one-shot everyone, it's balanced. But it's just not enjoyable.

[bravan.3876]

@Greyjoy.5167 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bravan.3876 said:But it can still be all boring and braindead or unhealthy mechanic. When builds get so easy to play that you barely can see a difference between a good and an average player or when average player can kill clearly better player only by picking a specific build (aside from mechanical hardcounters) than something is wrong.

That was a general statement that it still can be a braindead meta even though nothing is remarkable more lame than others. And if you need prove that it fits to gw2 atm then just look at the game and every ex esl player will tell you that the game in its current state is way to braindead spammable and survivng way to easy during still having tons of dmg. Power creep at its best in all aspects. I rly have no clue how i can prove such obvious thing to you when all you need to do is looking at the game. If you have any idea tell me and i try my best.

Ok, let's say I agree. How do we fix that? Because another nerf x spec is not the solution.

I made so many concrete balance suggestion to so many classes, i rly don't want to rewrite all of it. Basically as an general overview:

Rework all passsive traits into something more active, active sustain shouldn't be perma spammable and give active sustain more opportunity costs in dmg, so that we don't have all the builds can facetank for ages and still have high dmg. Reduce boonuptime and access to boons. Rework passive dmg multiplier traits into something else and let only runes/ sigils have some dmg multiplier so they cannot be stacked into heaven. I maybe forgot something here but that is the first comes to mind.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

wrong. anet is op. they should be nerfed.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:wrong. anet is op. they should be nerfed.

They were nerfed earlier this year.

Reduced by 33%.

[Greyjoy.5167]

@Exedore.6320 said:When everything is OP, everything is balanced. This is true.However, when everything is OP, nothing is fun.

The simplest analogy is that if everyone can one-shot everyone, it's balanced. But it's just not enjoyable.

I agree. And that's true. There's too much burst atm. And anet seems to try to balance it around that by force. Implementing more evasion etc. Which makes game unpleasant as any mistake can be punished by death.Now, how do we make anet aware of that? By crying on forums that 1 spec is op? No. It will only make them confused. There are gaps in logic behind most of feedback given by players, which led us to this point where anet is not communicating with playerbase at all.How can we redeem the situation?

@bravan.3876 said:

@Greyjoy.5167 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bravan.3876 said:But it can still be all boring and braindead or unhealthy mechanic. When builds get so easy to play that you barely can see a difference between a good and an average player or when average player can kill clearly better player only by picking a specific build (aside from mechanical hardcounters) than something is wrong.

That was a general statement that it still can be a braindead meta even though nothing is remarkable more lame than others. And if you need prove that it fits to gw2 atm then just look at the game and every ex esl player will tell you that the game in its current state is way to braindead spammable and survivng way to easy during still having tons of dmg. Power creep at its best in all aspects. I rly have no clue how i can prove such obvious thing to you when all you need to do is looking at the game. If you have any idea tell me and i try my best.

Ok, let's say I agree. How do we fix that? Because another nerf x spec is not the solution.

I made so many concrete balance suggestion to so many classes, i rly don't want to rewrite all of it. Basically as an general overview:

Rework all passsive traits into something more active, active sustain shouldn't be perma spammable and give active sustain more opportunity costs in dmg, so that we don't have all the builds can facetank for ages and still have high dmg. Reduce boonuptime and access to boons. Rework passive dmg multiplier traits into something else and let only runes/ sigils have some dmg multiplier so they cannot be stacked into heaven. I maybe forgot something here but that is the first comes to mind.

I see I can have constructive discussion with you. I'm glad.I believe we agree that posts with nerf suggestion of 1 spec is not helping. It just triggers players playing that spec, which makes the kittenstorm begin. Anet sees that post and thinks we are idiots. How can we help in the point we are at the moment? Our posts needs to be on point. Supported by examples and numbers, not feelings. I went through similar game quality decrease in Wow. I don't wanna see this again.

[bravan.3876]

@Greyjoy.5167 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:When everything is OP, everything is balanced. This is true.However, when everything is OP, nothing is fun.

The simplest analogy is that if everyone can one-shot everyone, it's balanced. But it's just not enjoyable.

I agree. And that's true. There's too much burst atm. And anet seems to try to balance it around that by force. Implementing more evasion etc. Which makes game unpleasant as any mistake can be punished by death.Now, how do we make anet aware of that? By crying on forums that 1 spec is op? No. It will only make them confused. There are gaps in logic behind most of feedback given by players, which led us to this point where anet is not communicating with playerbase at all.How can we redeem the situation?

@bravan.3876 said:

@Greyjoy.5167 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bravan.3876 said:But it can still be all boring and braindead or unhealthy mechanic. When builds get so easy to play that you barely can see a difference between a good and an average player or when average player can kill clearly better player only by picking a specific build (aside from mechanical hardcounters) than something is wrong.

That was a general statement that it still can be a braindead meta even though nothing is remarkable more lame than others. And if you need prove that it fits to gw2 atm then just look at the game and every ex esl player will tell you that the game in its current state is way to braindead spammable and survivng way to easy during still having tons of dmg. Power creep at its best in all aspects. I rly have no clue how i can prove such obvious thing to you when all you need to do is looking at the game. If you have any idea tell me and i try my best.

Ok, let's say I agree. How do we fix that? Because another nerf x spec is not the solution.

I made so many concrete balance suggestion to so many classes, i rly don't want to rewrite all of it. Basically as an general overview:

Rework all passsive traits into something more active, active sustain shouldn't be perma spammable and give active sustain more opportunity costs in dmg, so that we don't have all the builds can facetank for ages and still have high dmg. Reduce boonuptime and access to boons. Rework passive dmg multiplier traits into something else and let only runes/ sigils have some dmg multiplier so they cannot be stacked into heaven. I maybe forgot something here but that is the first comes to mind.

I see I can have constructive discussion with you. I'm glad.I believe we agree that posts with nerf suggestion of 1 spec is not helping. It just triggers players playing that spec, which makes the kittenstorm begin. Anet sees that post and thinks we are idiots. How can we help in the point we are at the moment? Our posts needs to be on point. Supported by examples and numbers, not feelings. I went through similar game quality decrease in Wow. I don't wanna see this again.

I always try to be as least biased (what is not too hard because i have not rly a main) as possible and not emotional and most as possible constructive. I always explain my conclusions why i think somthing is overperforming or in general unhealthy for the game but we are all only humans. 100% objectivity is impossible. I am hard to convince and it needs to be based on logic but i can be convinced though. Nerfing any class into the ground is not my goal at all, i have no hate towards a specific class, all i want is a skillbased and fun game. I only jump in when i see a post i think is objectively wrong or is absolutely against my own opinion or when i think ppl try to nerf stuff that doesn't deserve to be nerfed and would even dumb down the game what is to avoid in any case. That is why i never open complain threads myself, i only join them to find the golden middle inbetween class haters and class mains.

[alain.1659]

There has always been a simple positive road for anet that was never taken; bring balance at the same time. Not by patch by patch. Bring a huge balance (including nerfs, reworks and stuff) that is previously tested and give it altogether to every profession, at the same time. This one by one mentality is not healthy.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@alain.1659 said:There has always been a simple positive road for anet that was never taken; bring balance at the same time. Not by patch by patch. Bring a huge balance (including nerfs, reworks and stuff) that is previously tested and give it altogether to every profession, at the same time. This one by one mentality is not healthy.

agree. if 4 builds are overperforming. nerfing 1 doesnt help much 3 are broken still.same as if you would utterly gut spellbreaker right now, not all that much would change becouse core warrior is simirarly broken.gut holo? more condi thief cancer and more warriors, with occasional firebrand as a bandaid to thiefs.nerf condi thief? people stop using condiclear so cmirage is good again and no tifs to counter them.nerf all at once? mb something would change then.

[Greyjoy.5167]

I agree with you 2 guys above. Anet just needs to hold the fk on and work at some crazy big balance patch. May even include tests with players before go live.

Now, how do we speak to them? Can everybody spam support tickets with this solution or how?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Greyjoy.5167 said:I agree with you 2 guys above. Anet just needs to hold the kitten on and work at some crazy big balance patch. May even include tests with players before go live.

Now, how do we speak to them? Can everybody spam support tickets with this solution or how?

I dont think they care, it doesnt take all that long to put some thought out balance changes, heck gather top 10 players and talk with them. get some balance going and see how i goes. BTW there should be a way to take a look at winrates of each class.

[Swagg.9236]

But they all have the same playstyle. Every meta build seeks to do the same thing: negate damage while simultaneously attacking; if no kill is scored, just buy time or run away until buttons recharge. It's an oppressively low skill ceiling. Moreover, "balance" isn't the panacea for a game's PvP environment: nobody plays Street Fighter I because it's just Ken vs Ryu match-ups (but it's perfectly "balanced" since the only used characters have identical move sets), whereas Street Fighter II was (still is) one of the most popular and lauded fighting games of all time. The only difference between SF2 and GW2 is that GW2 has no real concept of footsies (mid-range movement tech), aims all of your attacks, and insulates players from risk while attacking, so it's a huge joke rather than an engaging PvP experience.

[Greyjoy.5167]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Greyjoy.5167 said:I agree with you 2 guys above. Anet just needs to hold the kitten on and work at some crazy big balance patch. May even include tests with players before go live.

Now, how do we speak to them? Can everybody spam support tickets with this solution or how?

I dont think they care, it doesnt take all that long to put some thought out balance changes, heck gather top 10 players and talk with them. get some balance going and see how i goes. BTW there should be a way to take a look at winrates of each class.

Why are we still playing this game then? Srsly asking

@Swagg.9236 said:But they all have the same playstyle. Every meta build seeks to do the same thing: negate damage while simultaneously attacking; if no kill is scored, just buy time or run away

Cause it's allowed. Even more, it's designed like that. I suppose this game is now supposed be like this.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Holo is the only one in your list that doesn't belong.

It's a real problem, not gitgud tears....

[Swagg.9236]

@Greyjoy.5167 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:But they all have the same playstyle. Every meta build seeks to do the same thing: negate damage while simultaneously attacking; if no kill is scored, just buy time or run away

Cause it's allowed. Even more, it's designed like that. I suppose this game is now supposed be like this.

Yeah, and that's why it's hot garbage. It was designed by short-sighted devs and isolated teams that constantly conflicted with each other over how to move forward with a franchise. Guild Wars 2 is a half-baked product.

[Greyjoy.5167]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Holo is the only one in your list that doesn't belong.

It's a real problem, not gitgud tears....

You mean that Holo is not op?I just listed what's regurarily posted as broken on the forum. Not really wanted to actually say what's truly op, because to determine that, days of tests and calculations needs to be done. Let's not try to determine that here, as topic will become another 'my spec is the worst, whilst X is the most broken of em all'

[Vague Memory.2817]

I disagree. There are many forms of being OPness. Certain class specs are OP in a particular area and others are OP in everything. That's why having two of the same class specs in a team usually wreck the other team. Two Scrappers/Holos have a ridiculous amount CC that is pretty overwhelming if you have a team comp that that has little stability. Two Scourges/Reapers usually leads to a bad day for the other team especially at mid. The melee specialists specs are overtuned compared to everything else: the sustainability and dps output of one just Spellbinder or core Guard is absurd, two obviously even more so....and so on and on with other specs. I think the biggest problem is the move to zero counterplay skills or combos that can't really be defended against while simultaneous nonsensical dps/sustain.