Can non-traited Vengeance have a 100% chance to rally if a champion or higher is killed?

[Waffles.5632]

Please? I know the trait vengeful return makes it 100%, but what I'm asking for is a change to this specific scenario that just happened to me.

Soloing the Champion Risen, Ketsurak in Gendarran Fields. He's a big boy, but I get him down to 5%, however I make a tiny mistake and boom I'm downed. He hits hard, but no worries, Vengeance is coming up. I pop Vengeance to rally back, and in a glorious comeback blaze I manage to finish him off with Arc Divider and 100 Blades. It feels epic!

At least it did feel epic..... but because Vengeance didn't rally, I die 4 seconds after The CHAMPION Mob I just solo'd!!! I felt like I did everything correctly, but still got punished. A huge sense of the reward and that underdog winner feeling I felt kinda just got washed away because Vengeance really only seems worth it to use if there are 3+ mobs around you. Too many times has this same scenario happened to me when fighting champion mobs.

So I propose a simple compromise, as to improve vengeance, but still keep it well within respectable standards of balance IMO, and that's making it so by default, champion mobs and higher will always trigger vengeance if killed.

Let me know what you fellow warriors think!

[Sobx.1758]

Vengeance is already a strong downed ability, it doesn't need nor it deserves getting buffed.

Also:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87949/can-we-finally-please-get-a-better-dwon-3-for-warrior

[cryorion.9532]

@"Sobx.1758" said:Vengeance is already a strong downed ability, it doesn't need nor it deserves getting buffed.

Also:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87949/can-we-finally-please-get-a-better-dwon-3-for-warrior

Oh right, so strong that realistically you get to use it like 1-2 times per week of playing when stars align and you are not killed before it gets off cd. I really doubt you play warrior enough to know how often you get the chance to actually use the skill from downed state and then even actually rally from it. Str0nk ind33d.

[Sobx.1758]

@cryorion.9532 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:Vengeance is already a strong downed ability, it doesn't need nor it deserves getting buffed.

Also:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87949/can-we-finally-please-get-a-better-dwon-3-for-warrior

Oh right, so strong that realistically you get to use it like 1-2 times per week of playing when stars align and you are not killed before it gets off cd.

That's also true for any other class' downed ability, right? (right.)Then what you're asking here for is a general change to how downed abilities (initial)cooldowns work, in which case you're in the wrong thread, because this one asks for a buff to one specific ability that's arguably one of the strongest from all the available anyways.

I really doubt you play warrior enough to know how often you get the chance to actually use the skill from downed state and then even actually rally from it. Str0nk ind33d.

I really doubt you play any other class seeing how you think that's somehow a warrior-exclusive issue, but great(?) effort at being condescending. Stronk pseudo-arguments.

[cryorion.9532]

@"Sobx.1758" said:snip

Your "arguably strongest" is basically heavy rng that doesn't work most of the time.The OP suggested to give base Vengeance 100% chance to rally when killing champion mob. Sad that there is trait for that and no one is using it... because it is completely useless as people rarely get the chance to use Vengeance in downed state (or it's just not worth it). You act as if this would be 200% damage buff to every warrior skill. :scream: 0mG P0w3rCr33p

[Sobx.1758]

@cryorion.9532 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:snip

Your "arguably strongest" is basically heavy rng that doesn't work most of the time.

How is it heavy rng? Because of the % chance of untraited skill? It's still arguably strongest even if you don't stay alive at the end of it.

You act as if this would be 200% damage buff to every warrior skill. :scream: 0mG P0w3rCr33p

No, I don't, I wrote what I've meant and you trying to ridicule it and add some overblown meaning to what I said won't change that.

Also no amount of "snipping" the quotes will hide that you don't really answer to what I wrote btw, but keep dodging. Ah and I never mentioned powercreep (or anything remotely close to that) -just shows how you have nothing to answer, so you'll keep throwing buzzwords instead.

[cryorion.9532]

@"Sobx.1758" said:snip

Yes. The skill is strongest if you live long enough to activate it, if you manage to kill something and if you also manage to get lucky (25% chance). Wow.Someone suggests something minor and very situational at best and suddenly expert appears and "vengeance 2 stronk, no buff, cuz powercreep(?)". If powercreep is not the reason of instantly rejecting the suggestion, then what is? Even though I kinda doubt Anet will change Vengeance skill, there would be nothing gamebreaking or too strong about adding base 100% rally chance on champion/legendary mobs. I don't see any issue with that. Do you?

[Sobx.1758]

@cryorion.9532 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:snip

Yes. The skill is strongest if you live long enough to activate it, if you manage to kill something and if you also manage to get lucky (25% chance). Wow.

Already answered to the part about "living long enough to activate it", go reread and understand.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1069364/#Comment_1069364Also -and I already wrote that before as well :sleeping: - it's still arguably the strongest down ability even if you don't survive at the end of it. Keep pretending it's not because you need to wait for activation time like on any other class. :D

Someone suggests something minor and very situational at best and suddenly expert appears and "vengeance 2 stronk, no buff, cuz powercreep(?)". If powercreep is not the reason of instantly rejecting the suggestion, then what is? Even though I kinda doubt Anet will change Vengeance skill, there would be nothing gamebreaking or too strong about adding base 100% rally chance on champion/legendary mobs. I don't see any issue with that. Do you?

Again, never wrote anything about powercreep or anything that would suggest it, stop making up random stuff just so you can pretend you have a point at all. I also already wrote what's my reasoning, not sure why you're asking about the same thing now. Maybe just start answering to what I wrote instead of trying to take it so personally and failing. Anyone reading this thread probably sees what you're doing here btw.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@cryorion.9532, you'll find @Sobx.1758 to generally not that receptive to changing a great deal on Warrior. So, lets agree to not tit-for-tat.

I think Vengeance should rally you at least 50% of the time, preferably a higher chance, if you kill something while under its effects. I'd take a reduced duration if need be, although 5s minimum. If you kill something while in down state you should rally right? I think Vengeful Return should be changed slightly then, perhaps roll the now defunct revival traits from Tactics into it.

[Sobx.1758]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@cryorion.9532, you'll find @"Sobx.1758" to generally not that receptive to changing a great deal on Warrior. So, lets agree to not kitten-for-tat.

I mean, didn't I write why I don't think it's a good idea? Did he address literally any of that? Or you'll just swipe it all up to me apparently being anti-warrior-change (which, again, is not true because warrior doesn't get any "special treatment" from me like you seem to believe)? It's not about me being "anti-change", it's about what I think is needed/deserved or not.Not surprisingly though, any time I ask if someone (including the author of the previous thread about this skill) thinks other class' downed skills are in any way better than Vengeance, they either avoid (also in form of conveniently "snipping" the quote) that question or disappear from the thread altogether. Am I somehow making things up here?

I think Vengeance should rally you at least 50% of the time, preferably a higher chance, if you kill something while under its effects. I'd take a reduced duration if need be, although 5s minimum. If you kill something while in down state you should rally right? I think Vengeful Return should be changed slightly then, perhaps roll the now defunct revival traits from Tactics into it.

The difference between killing something while staying on the ground and killing something within x seconds while being able to move around and use all your skills is quite significant. I don't understand how people can suggest that it's not a strong downed skill.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@cryorion.9532, you'll find @Sobx.1758 to generally not that receptive to changing a great deal on Warrior. So, lets agree to not kitten-for-tat.

I mean, didn't I write why I don't think it's a good idea? Did he address literally any of that? Or you'll just swipe it all up to me apparently being anti-warrior-change (which, again, is not true because warrior doesn't get any "special treatment" from me like you seem to believe)? It's not about me being "anti-change", it's about what I think is needed/deserved or not.Not surprisingly though, any time I ask if someone (including the author of the previous thread about this skill) thinks other class' downed skills are in any way better than Vengeance, they either avoid (also in form of conveniently "snipping" the quote) that question or disappear from the thread altogether. Am I somehow making things up here?

I think Vengeance should rally you at least 50% of the time, preferably a higher chance, if you kill something while under its effects. I'd take a reduced duration if need be, although 5s minimum. If you kill something while in down state you should rally right? I think Vengeful Return should be changed slightly then, perhaps roll the now defunct revival traits from Tactics into it.

The difference between killing something while staying on the ground and killing something within x seconds while being able to move around and use all your skills is quite significant. I don't understand how people can suggest that it's not a strong downed skill.

I didn't say that you were anti-change Sobx, just that you aren't generally receptive to what most people put forth, I am sure there are things that you do want changed, you're just not that vocal about it.

As far as Down skills go Ranger probably has the best one with Lick Wounds. Vaporform and Shadow Escape can be used to put yourself into a safe location to bandage yourself from, or to where your teammates can rez you from, which is arguably more useful than Vengeance.

As to the angst over Vengeance, most of it is over the fact other Down skills that result in you killing someone have a 100% chance to rally you, Vengeance requires a trait to do that. Its okay to disagree over whether that is appropriate or not, but I have had times where I've killed several enemies (PvE and WvW) with Vengeance up and not been lucky with the 25% chance. Sometimes with 10 mobs in PvE back when I was learning the game. Even with a 50% chance it would not be uncommon to kill 4-5 things in a row and not get the rally.

[cryorion.9532]

@"Sobx.1758" You fail to realize, that no one wants cooldown reduction in this thread, just adding option which seems quite reasonable and very situational. If warrior has option to rally from killing target in Vengance, what is wrong with suggestion to add 100% chance to rally from chamption/legendary tier mobs? Killing a mob of such tier should be rewarding for warrior to give them 100% rally in Vengeance. Do you think that suddenly there will be warriors rallying from champs all around presistently?

The issue is about you rejecting the idea with only argument being "arguably one of the strongest from all the available". Maybe next time be more constructive and write why exactly is OPs idea not good idea, where would it break the game or cause imbalances or anything specific. What is wrong with improving your chances of survival while in Vengeance as currently the vast majority of uses results in defeat? It is specific criterion which only applies on a very specific situation and it is reasonable. Or is it unfair for other professions?

You do this in most warrior threads btw, I read your comments in other Vengeance thread and there was literally 0 constructive feedback to posted suggestion, only "because it is already strong"... what an argument.

[Sobx.1758]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@cryorion.9532, you'll find @Sobx.1758 to generally not that receptive to changing a great deal on Warrior. So, lets agree to not kitten-for-tat.

I mean, didn't I write why I don't think it's a good idea? Did he address literally any of that? Or you'll just swipe it all up to me apparently being anti-warrior-change (which, again, is not true because warrior doesn't get any "special treatment" from me like you seem to believe)? It's not about me being "anti-change", it's about what I think is needed/deserved or not.Not surprisingly though, any time I ask if someone (including the author of the previous thread about this skill) thinks other class' downed skills are in any way better than Vengeance, they either avoid (also in form of conveniently "snipping" the quote) that question or disappear from the thread altogether. Am I somehow making things up here?

I think Vengeance should rally you at least 50% of the time, preferably a higher chance, if you kill something while under its effects. I'd take a reduced duration if need be, although 5s minimum. If you kill something while in down state you should rally right? I think Vengeful Return should be changed slightly then, perhaps roll the now defunct revival traits from Tactics into it.

The difference between killing something while staying on the ground and killing something within x seconds while being able to move around and use all your skills is quite significant. I don't understand how people can suggest that it's not a strong downed skill.

I didn't say that you were anti-change Sobx, just that you aren't generally receptive to what most people put forth, I am sure there are things that you do want changed, you're just not that vocal about it.

Ok, fair enough :p

As far as Down skills go Ranger probably has the best one with Lick Wounds. Vaporform and Shadow Escape can be used to put yourself into a safe location to bandage yourself from, or to where your teammates can rez you from, which is arguably more useful than Vengeance.

Ok, but that's highly situational, there are easly times when it's far better to get up and start dealing dmg (even considering you might not get the rally in the end of it) instead of moving away and pressing "downed 1" in hopes someone will pick you up. I think it's not really 'fair' to claim that Vengance needs buffing, but that's obviously nothing more than my opinion :D

As to the angst over Vengeance, most of it is over the fact other Down skills that result in you killing someone have a 100% chance to rally you, Vengeance requires a trait to do that. Its okay to disagree over whether that is appropriate or not, but I have had times where I've killed several enemies (PvE and WvW) with Vengeance up and not been lucky with the 25% chance. Sometimes with 10 mobs in PvE back when I was learning the game. Even with a 50% chance it would not be uncommon to kill 4-5 things in a row and not get the rally.

I think I commented on that in the prervious thread -there really isn't anything in the way of a warrior killing a "trash mob" by pressing 1. People don't need to press the skill just because it's off cooldown, use it accordingly to what you need in the current situation.And yeah, getting screwed by rng is annoying and feels bad, but that's not the only time rng comes to play in gw2 and if we wanted to remove that aspect from the game there would be need for massive overhaul of traits/some skills/aspects like crit chance. You can be screwed by all of those. And if someone is ready to somehow put his success on the downed system, there's a trait for that. Otherwise it's just a free "get up from getting downed" which is the unfair part when compared to other classes. Just the fact that warrior can get up and use his skills for a limited time is already a huge dps/utility difference over other downed classes. The fact that "it has initial cooldown" isn't really an argument, because every other downed skill also has that, but somehow people like cryorion will drop that fact immediately and claim I'm crying about "powercreep" just because they have nothing to respond with, oof.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@"Sobx.1758" said:

As to the angst over Vengeance, most of it is over the fact other Down skills that result in you killing someone have a 100% chance to rally you, Vengeance requires a trait to do that. Its okay to disagree over whether that is appropriate or not, but I have had times where I've killed several enemies (PvE and WvW) with Vengeance up and not been lucky with the 25% chance. Sometimes with 10 mobs in PvE back when I was learning the game. Even with a 50% chance it would not be uncommon to kill 4-5 things in a row and not get the rally.

I think I commented on that in the prervious thread -there really isn't anything in the way of a warrior killing a "trash mob" by pressing 1. People don't need to press the skill just because it's off cooldown, use it accordingly to what you need in the current situation.And yeah, getting screwed by rng is annoying and feels bad, but that's not the only time rng comes to play in gw2 and if we wanted to remove that aspect from the game there would be need for massive overhaul of traits/some skills/aspects like crit chance. You can be screwed by all of those. And if someone is ready to somehow put his success on the downed system, there's a trait for that. Otherwise it's just a free "get up from getting downed" which is the unfair part when compared to other classes. The fact that "it has initial cooldown" isn't really an argument, because every other downed skill also has that, but somehow people like cryorion will drop that fact immediately and claim I'm crying about "powercreep", oof.

Well being screwed by the RNG is the source of the angst. Other down skills don't have that. Like I said, I fully expect the duration to be reduced appropriately if the chance to rally is increased, that would be balanced.

Yeah, I've used Vengeance, downed my enemy, stomped them, and then typed /sleep to wait out the timer because RNG screwed me yet again.

I've had epic moments for sure, like in the FotM CMs where there is reduced healing and the whole pug went into down state, used Vengeance, killed the boss, and then had to wait to be rezzed to collect my loot. I would rather have 5s to get the kill and a rally then have 15s to get the kill that would have only taken 5s to get anyway only to have a 25% chance on rally. But then that is what I would prefer others are free to feel otherwise.

[Sobx.1758]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:

As to the angst over Vengeance, most of it is over the fact other Down skills that result in you killing someone have a 100% chance to rally you, Vengeance requires a trait to do that. Its okay to disagree over whether that is appropriate or not, but I have had times where I've killed several enemies (PvE and WvW) with Vengeance up and not been lucky with the 25% chance. Sometimes with 10 mobs in PvE back when I was learning the game. Even with a 50% chance it would not be uncommon to kill 4-5 things in a row and not get the rally.

I think I commented on that in the prervious thread -there really isn't anything in the way of a warrior killing a "trash mob" by pressing 1. People don't need to press the skill just because it's off cooldown, use it accordingly to what you need in the current situation.And yeah, getting screwed by rng is annoying and feels bad, but that's not the only time rng comes to play in gw2 and if we wanted to remove that aspect from the game there would be need for massive overhaul of traits/some skills/aspects like crit chance. You can be screwed by all of those. And if someone is ready to somehow put his success on the downed system, there's a trait for that. Otherwise it's just a free "get up from getting downed" which is the unfair part when compared to other classes. The fact that "it has initial cooldown" isn't really an argument, because every other downed skill also has that, but somehow people like cryorion will drop that fact immediately and claim I'm crying about "powercreep", oof.

Well being screwed by the RNG is the source of the angst. Other down skills don't have that. Like I said, I fully expect the duration to be reduced appropriately if the chance to rally is increased, that would be balanced.

Yeah, I've used Vengeance, downed my enemy, stomped them, and then typed /sleep to wait out the timer because RNG screwed me yet again.

I've had epic moments for sure, like in the FotM CMs where there is reduced healing and the whole pug went into down state, used Vengeance, killed the boss, and then had to wait to be rezzed to collect my loot. I would rather have 5s to get the kill and a rally then have 15s to get the kill that would have only taken 5s to get anyway only to have a 25% chance on rally. But then that is what I would prefer others are free to feel otherwise.

Ok and I understand a balance change like that to eliminate the rng part of the skill without being a straight up buff. 5s might be even sliiightly too low, but actually not sure.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

As to the angst over Vengeance, most of it is over the fact other Down skills that result in you killing someone have a 100% chance to rally you, Vengeance requires a trait to do that. Its okay to disagree over whether that is appropriate or not, but I have had times where I've killed several enemies (PvE and WvW) with Vengeance up and not been lucky with the 25% chance. Sometimes with 10 mobs in PvE back when I was learning the game. Even with a 50% chance it would not be uncommon to kill 4-5 things in a row and not get the rally.

I think I commented on that in the prervious thread -there really isn't anything in the way of a warrior killing a "trash mob" by pressing 1. People don't need to press the skill just because it's off cooldown, use it accordingly to what you need in the current situation.And yeah, getting screwed by rng is annoying and feels bad, but that's not the only time rng comes to play in gw2 and if we wanted to remove that aspect from the game there would be need for massive overhaul of traits/some skills/aspects like crit chance. You can be screwed by all of those. And if someone is ready to somehow put his success on the downed system, there's a trait for that. Otherwise it's just a free "get up from getting downed" which is the unfair part when compared to other classes. The fact that "it has initial cooldown" isn't really an argument, because every other downed skill also has that, but somehow people like cryorion will drop that fact immediately and claim I'm crying about "powercreep", oof.

Well being screwed by the RNG is the source of the angst. Other down skills don't have that. Like I said, I fully expect the duration to be reduced appropriately if the chance to rally is increased, that would be balanced.

Yeah, I've used Vengeance, downed my enemy, stomped them, and then typed /sleep to wait out the timer because RNG screwed me yet again.

I've had epic moments for sure, like in the FotM CMs where there is reduced healing and the whole pug went into down state, used Vengeance, killed the boss, and then had to wait to be rezzed to collect my loot. I would rather have 5s to get the kill and a rally then have 15s to get the kill that would have only taken 5s to get anyway only to have a 25% chance on rally. But then that is what I would prefer others are free to feel otherwise.

Ok and I understand a balance change like that to eliminate the rng part of the skill without being a straight up buff. 5s might be even sliiightly too low, but actually not sure.

!!!!!!!! We agree on something?!?!?!?! Lol.

Well if it is 100% chance by default then the duration would have to decrease. Currently it is 15s, so something between 5s and 10s. The trait would need compensation over losing that piece. Maybe cast Charge or Frenzy on rally? Would fit the theme of the trait.

[InsaneQR.7412]

I think the skill should be reworked so it rallies you but gives you a debuff that would kill you outright if you would go downstate.The trait should be something that shortens the buff or gives you some benefit during it.

[Sobx.1758]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

As to the angst over Vengeance, most of it is over the fact other Down skills that result in you killing someone have a 100% chance to rally you, Vengeance requires a trait to do that. Its okay to disagree over whether that is appropriate or not, but I have had times where I've killed several enemies (PvE and WvW) with Vengeance up and not been lucky with the 25% chance. Sometimes with 10 mobs in PvE back when I was learning the game. Even with a 50% chance it would not be uncommon to kill 4-5 things in a row and not get the rally.

I think I commented on that in the prervious thread -there really isn't anything in the way of a warrior killing a "trash mob" by pressing 1. People don't need to press the skill just because it's off cooldown, use it accordingly to what you need in the current situation.And yeah, getting screwed by rng is annoying and feels bad, but that's not the only time rng comes to play in gw2 and if we wanted to remove that aspect from the game there would be need for massive overhaul of traits/some skills/aspects like crit chance. You can be screwed by all of those. And if someone is ready to somehow put his success on the downed system, there's a trait for that. Otherwise it's just a free "get up from getting downed" which is the unfair part when compared to other classes. The fact that "it has initial cooldown" isn't really an argument, because every other downed skill also has that, but somehow people like cryorion will drop that fact immediately and claim I'm crying about "powercreep", oof.

Well being screwed by the RNG is the source of the angst. Other down skills don't have that. Like I said, I fully expect the duration to be reduced appropriately if the chance to rally is increased, that would be balanced.

Yeah, I've used Vengeance, downed my enemy, stomped them, and then typed /sleep to wait out the timer because RNG screwed me yet again.

I've had epic moments for sure, like in the FotM CMs where there is reduced healing and the whole pug went into down state, used Vengeance, killed the boss, and then had to wait to be rezzed to collect my loot. I would rather have 5s to get the kill and a rally then have 15s to get the kill that would have only taken 5s to get anyway only to have a 25% chance on rally. But then that is what I would prefer others are free to feel otherwise.

Ok and I understand a balance change like that to eliminate the rng part of the skill without being a straight up buff. 5s might be even sliiightly too low, but actually not sure.

!!!!!!!! We agree on something?!?!?!?! Lol.

:warning: Bug in the system detected, we're currently working on a fix.

Well if it is 100% chance by default then the duration would have to decrease. Currently it is 15s, so something between 5s and 10s. The trait would need compensation over losing that piece. Maybe cast Charge or Frenzy on rally? Would fit the theme of the trait.

Yup.Not sure about the trait as I'm not really a fan of the idea of traitable downed skills and would much rather prefer the downed skills being "set to work as they're always intended to" while getting another trait designed for an active play instead of pretending someone should play around themselves going down in the first place.

[Sobx.1758]

@InsaneQR.7412 said:I think the skill should be reworked so it rallies you but gives you a debuff that would kill you outright if you would go downstate.The trait should be something that shortens the buff or gives you some benefit during it.

See, now this is the type of idea this forum taught me to expect from its users.The only situation I could agree with this (not that it matters, but still :D ) would be if literally every other class got their skill swapped to this one, because that's just insane. Basically free 2 lives -you're as good as dead in downed state anyways. Actually at that point, just remove downstate from the game altogether.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

As to the angst over Vengeance, most of it is over the fact other Down skills that result in you killing someone have a 100% chance to rally you, Vengeance requires a trait to do that. Its okay to disagree over whether that is appropriate or not, but I have had times where I've killed several enemies (PvE and WvW) with Vengeance up and not been lucky with the 25% chance. Sometimes with 10 mobs in PvE back when I was learning the game. Even with a 50% chance it would not be uncommon to kill 4-5 things in a row and not get the rally.

I think I commented on that in the prervious thread -there really isn't anything in the way of a warrior killing a "trash mob" by pressing 1. People don't need to press the skill just because it's off cooldown, use it accordingly to what you need in the current situation.And yeah, getting screwed by rng is annoying and feels bad, but that's not the only time rng comes to play in gw2 and if we wanted to remove that aspect from the game there would be need for massive overhaul of traits/some skills/aspects like crit chance. You can be screwed by all of those. And if someone is ready to somehow put his success on the downed system, there's a trait for that. Otherwise it's just a free "get up from getting downed" which is the unfair part when compared to other classes. The fact that "it has initial cooldown" isn't really an argument, because every other downed skill also has that, but somehow people like cryorion will drop that fact immediately and claim I'm crying about "powercreep", oof.

Well being screwed by the RNG is the source of the angst. Other down skills don't have that. Like I said, I fully expect the duration to be reduced appropriately if the chance to rally is increased, that would be balanced.

Yeah, I've used Vengeance, downed my enemy, stomped them, and then typed /sleep to wait out the timer because RNG screwed me yet again.

I've had epic moments for sure, like in the FotM CMs where there is reduced healing and the whole pug went into down state, used Vengeance, killed the boss, and then had to wait to be rezzed to collect my loot. I would rather have 5s to get the kill and a rally then have 15s to get the kill that would have only taken 5s to get anyway only to have a 25% chance on rally. But then that is what I would prefer others are free to feel otherwise.

Ok and I understand a balance change like that to eliminate the rng part of the skill without being a straight up buff. 5s might be even sliiightly too low, but actually not sure.

!!!!!!!! We agree on something?!?!?!?! Lol.

:warning: Bug in the system detected, we're currently working on a fix.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Well if it is 100% chance by default then the duration would have to decrease. Currently it is 15s, so something between 5s and 10s. The trait would need compensation over losing that piece. Maybe cast Charge or Frenzy on rally? Would fit the theme of the trait.

Yup.Not sure about the trait as I'm not really a fan of the idea of traitable downed skills and would much rather prefer the downed skills being "set to work as they're always intended to" while getting another trait designed for an active play instead of pretending someone should play around themselves going down in the first place.

Well, every class has a down skill trait somewhere. I'd prefer that none of them existed either, or that they had a component that helped when you are not down. But seeing as they are there and this would take something from the trait then something would need to be added back into it for balance. I think casting a skill on rally would be fitting, Charge and Frenzy fitting the theme of Vengeance, but am open to other ideas. One other idea I alluded to earlier would be to roll the defunct Tactics revival minors into it.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:I think the skill should be reworked so it rallies you but gives you a debuff that would kill you outright if you would go downstate.The trait should be something that shortens the buff or gives you some benefit during it.

See, now this is the type of idea this forum taught me to expect from its users.The only situation I could agree with this (not that it matters, but still :D ) would be if literally every other class got their skill swapped to this one, because that's just insane. Basically free 2 lives -you're as good as dead in downed state anyways. Actually at that point, just remove downstate from the game altogether.

Duration and health on rally can still be modified.I dunno. I think being rallied at 25% health and kill able outright for 20s seems rather harsh (just an example). It would be a balance issue surely but definetly not broken if handled correctly especially if it would have a cast time that could be interrupted.Current version is totally garbage though and needs some improvements.

[noobymaniac.9483]

I personality hate the 25% chance and wish it would be 100% to rally baseline. I'd be up for any nerf elsewhere to the trait to get there.