[merged] Equipment templates offer less for those that have invested into the game more - Legendary

[Taygus.4571]

@"Miatela.5047" said:

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:I dont really see what your seeing. Whatever you can do with ascended you can do with legendary.

No, you can't. That is the issue.

If you have ascended gear you gain the ability to fashion swap without having to invest in extra storage as you'll be able to fully utilise the equipment slots. If you are using a set of legendary gear, you cannot fashion swap and you gain less effective storage unless you go out of your way and buy ascended items - items that weren't needed because of what was previously supported as being an Anet-backed solution to the lack of templates. At that point, a player has effectively paid a tax of over 2000 gold for a legendary armor that will effectively be used as an ascended set, over 2000 gold per legendary weapon and more than that for any trinkets

because they were rolling with what Arenanet previously released to overcome the issue of no templates.

We actually don't know if this is true yet.. or if the wardrobe only loads the first equipment tab

[Linken.6345]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"Miatela.5047" said:

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:I dont really see what your seeing. Whatever you can do with ascended you can do with legendary.

No, you can't. That is the issue.

If you have ascended gear you gain the ability to fashion swap without having to invest in extra storage as you'll be able to fully utilise the equipment slots. If you are using a set of legendary gear, you cannot fashion swap and you gain less effective storage unless you go out of your way and buy ascended items - items that weren't needed because of what was previously supported as being an Anet-backed solution to the lack of templates. At that point, a player has effectively paid a tax of over 2000 gold for a legendary armor that will effectively be used as an ascended set, over 2000 gold per legendary weapon and more than that for any trinkets

because they were rolling with what Arenanet previously released to overcome the issue of no templates.

We actually don't know if this is true yet.. or if the wardrobe only loads the first equipment tab

We see the guardian guy switch bettwen two diffrent looks when he changes equipment templates so we do know about it.

[Taygus.4571]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"Miatela.5047" said:

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:I dont really see what your seeing. Whatever you can do with ascended you can do with legendary.

No, you can't. That is the issue.

If you have ascended gear you gain the ability to fashion swap without having to invest in extra storage as you'll be able to fully utilise the equipment slots. If you are using a set of legendary gear, you cannot fashion swap and you gain less effective storage unless you go out of your way and buy ascended items - items that weren't needed because of what was previously supported as being an Anet-backed solution to the lack of templates. At that point, a player has effectively paid a tax of over 2000 gold for a legendary armor that will effectively be used as an ascended set, over 2000 gold per legendary weapon and more than that for any trinkets

because they were rolling with what Arenanet previously released to overcome the issue of no templates.

We actually don't know if this is true yet.. or if the wardrobe only loads the first equipment tab

We see the guardian guy switch bettwen two diffrent looks when he changes equipment templates so we do know about it.

oh I don't remember seeing that...dyes too?

[Linken.6345]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"Miatela.5047" said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:I dont really see what your seeing. Whatever you can do with ascended you can do with legendary.

No, you can't. That is the issue.

If you have ascended gear you gain the ability to fashion swap without having to invest in extra storage as you'll be able to fully utilise the equipment slots. If you are using a set of legendary gear, you cannot fashion swap and you gain less effective storage unless you go out of your way and buy ascended items - items that weren't needed because of what was previously supported as being an Anet-backed solution to the lack of templates. At that point, a player has effectively paid a tax of over 2000 gold for a legendary armor that will effectively be used as an ascended set, over 2000 gold per legendary weapon and more than that for any trinkets

because they were rolling with what Arenanet previously released to overcome the issue of no templates.

We actually don't know if this is true yet.. or if the wardrobe only loads the first equipment tab

We see the guardian guy switch bettwen two diffrent looks when he changes equipment templates so we do know about it.

oh I don't remember seeing that...dyes too?

Yes dyes aswell

you can see it here

No idea why it dont start at were I want it start at but its at 24.10

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Linken.6345 said:Why would you have to invest in ascended gear set?

If you watch the anet guild chat video you would see that you can have 2 equipment panels with the same legendary items copied but with diffrent stats so one berserker set and 1 viper set diffrent runes/sigils in armor and weapons.

The same legendary axe on ranger could be berserker on power soulbeast and harrier on your druid specs.

Seems to me your only seeing the downside of not being able to use diffrent skins without the counter balance that you can have any type of stat over up to 6 equipment panels without an additional cost

EditAfter reading abit more, how is this any diffrent then now?

If you got legendary armor if you switch stats on it its still the same skins.So no change at all to now when people with more ascended sets can have diffrent fasion on their armor/weapon pieces.

Edit 2Since the legendary gear is a copy how do you think the game engine should see a diffrent in skins on equipment panel 1 and 2?And to add to this should ascended people get the ability to forego the skin sharing in favor of being able to get multiple copies of ascended so 1 set of ascended can act as any type of ascended over all their equipment panels aswell?

Thank you. People are just blowing this over. Don't know why Anet waited to the end of the month to release this. Should have been sooner so the QQ fake drama would die down sooner.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Kas.3509 said:Another thing is - I was always sad about ONE thing with legendary armor -> I had to have the same look on every build. And obviously tank healer assasin-like should look completely different. That was a big downside for a legendary BUT I decided it's still worth it, as I am saving ~60 inventory space on my character.

Now, people with ascended gear gain the advantage (inventory slots) without the disadvantage I still have to deal with. They can just simply transmute different ascended armor into cool different looks for each playstyle and I have to transmute every time after changing build?That's really annoying if that;s the case, cause this means I'll never use any of my legendary again.

The advantage of Legendary is that they have all stats. Ascended does not, it only has best stats of one stat set, which means a person without Legendary still has to craft each and every stat set they want. If a player using legendary only uses Berserker stats for example, they would be no different from a player with Berserker ascended gear. That's on them though.

[Taygus.4571]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"Miatela.5047" said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:I dont really see what your seeing. Whatever you can do with ascended you can do with legendary.

No, you can't. That is the issue.

If you have ascended gear you gain the ability to fashion swap without having to invest in extra storage as you'll be able to fully utilise the equipment slots. If you are using a set of legendary gear, you cannot fashion swap and you gain less effective storage unless you go out of your way and buy ascended items - items that weren't needed because of what was previously supported as being an Anet-backed solution to the lack of templates. At that point, a player has effectively paid a tax of over 2000 gold for a legendary armor that will effectively be used as an ascended set, over 2000 gold per legendary weapon and more than that for any trinkets

because they were rolling with what Arenanet previously released to overcome the issue of no templates.

We actually don't know if this is true yet.. or if the wardrobe only loads the first equipment tab

We see the guardian guy switch bettwen two diffrent looks when he changes equipment templates so we do know about it.

oh I don't remember seeing that...dyes too?

Yes dyes aswell

you can see it here

No idea why it dont start at were I want it start at but its at 24.10

Ok, My mistake... fair enough

[Ashantara.8731]

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:Idk how someone would say ascended is better than legendary. Last I checked you can swap stats, infusions, sigils and runes for free on legendary.

Only that it will still take several minutes to manually adjust all the stats and upgrades on legendary gear as opposed to a split second to load an ascended set when templates arrive. Which was the argument behind the statement that in the future it would make more sense to get another ascended set instead as legendary won't really be of much advantage in this context.

If you won't adjust manually, you will still have to pay for several slots when using a legendary set in order to load the desired stats and upgrades as quickly. Which takes the whole point of legendary gear being superior ab absurdum.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Ashantara.8731 said:.

I think they should have just avoided gear storage altogether and kept swapping equipment from the inventory instead.

Nah this is a vocal minority complaining about this. I don't have legendary gear like MOST players. This new feature makes the game more fun for me since I don't have to keep all this gear in my inventory to use it on different builds. I will be more willing to swap gear now. Because honestly I most of the time don't even swap my gear now when changing between power and support. Too time consuming especially for my play style of switching between PvE and WvW.

Look swapping like some are asking for dwell into a different thing which is wardrobe. That has its own currency unlike legendary gear stat changes. That should be a totally different feature as well. I also want to be able to save wardrobe combos I like, but don't want to how to spend those currency everytime I want to change equipment.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:It does work for trinkets and weapons. Unfortunately you have to switch to wep section or trinket section. And yeah it is annoying i will admit. I dont have arc so i cant comment on it.

You did see that all items are character bound in the template item storage right?So no sharing across the account.

I mean you can't do that now either though. The new feature does what you currently can do but with less clicks.

[Taygus.4571]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:It does work for trinkets and weapons. Unfortunately you have to switch to wep section or trinket section. And yeah it is annoying i will admit. I dont have arc so i cant comment on it.

You did see that all items are character bound in the template item storage right?So no sharing across the account.

I mean you can't do that now either though. The new feature does what you currently can do but with less clicks.

yeah but people who used arc didn't lose all their templates by moving the gear between characters.

Where as if you unequip your gear, you lose your "template" too.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:It does work for trinkets and weapons. Unfortunately you have to switch to wep section or trinket section. And yeah it is annoying i will admit. I dont have arc so i cant comment on it.

You did see that all items are character bound in the template item storage right?So no sharing across the account.

I mean you can't do that now either though. The new feature does what you currently can do but with less clicks.

yeah but people who used arc didn't lose all their templates by moving the gear between characters.

Where as if you unequip your gear, you lose your "template" too.

I dont know how arc works but even with it, gear can only be worn on one character at a time. So template or no template that not different here. So I don't get what the complaint is here.

[Taygus.4571]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:It does work for trinkets and weapons. Unfortunately you have to switch to wep section or trinket section. And yeah it is annoying i will admit. I dont have arc so i cant comment on it.

You did see that all items are character bound in the template item storage right?So no sharing across the account.

I mean you can't do that now either though. The new feature does what you currently can do but with less clicks.

yeah but people who used arc didn't lose all their templates by moving the gear between characters.

Where as if you unequip your gear, you lose your "template" too.

I dont know how arc works but even with it, gear can only be worn on one character at a time. So template or no template that not different here. So I don't get what the complaint is here.

arc saves your template..so you equip your gear pr put it in your bag, ...then you pick your template in arc and sets it.

It doesn't delete template because you moved your gear to another character..the template still exists..so when you return the gear.. you can pick your template again.

with anets "templates"... you have to reset your stats, your infusions, your runes, evey time you move your gear between characters. It doesnt save your template.Anets templates are more like a loadout, arcs are a blueprint.

Make sense?

[Pifil.5193]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:It does work for trinkets and weapons. Unfortunately you have to switch to wep section or trinket section. And yeah it is annoying i will admit. I dont have arc so i cant comment on it.

You did see that all items are character bound in the template item storage right?So no sharing across the account.

I mean you can't do that now either though. The new feature does what you currently can do but with less clicks.

yeah but people who used arc didn't lose all their templates by moving the gear between characters.

Where as if you unequip your gear, you lose your "template" too.

I dont know how arc works but even with it, gear can only be worn on one character at a time. So template or no template that not different here. So I don't get what the complaint is here.

Basically Arc stored the desired equipment configuration in its template, this stores the equipment itself.

Let's say you have two characters you play, one a Viper guardian the other an Assassin warrior and you have one set of legendary armour.

In Arcs system you can move the equipment from one to the other and then back without having to manually set up the Stats and Runes and so on. Arc does that for you. It records the equipment configuration as part of the build.

Once you take a piece of equipment out of ArenaNet's implementation you've lost any knowledge of that equipment or how you were using it. The equipment configuration is not part of the build. You have to remember the stats and Runes and manually reconfigure it.

That's why multiple ascended sets will be better than legendary ones.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:It does work for trinkets and weapons. Unfortunately you have to switch to wep section or trinket section. And yeah it is annoying i will admit. I dont have arc so i cant comment on it.

You did see that all items are character bound in the template item storage right?So no sharing across the account.

I mean you can't do that now either though. The new feature does what you currently can do but with less clicks.

yeah but people who used arc didn't lose all their templates by moving the gear between characters.

Where as if you unequip your gear, you lose your "template" too.

I dont know how arc works but even with it, gear can only be worn on one character at a time. So template or no template that not different here. So I don't get what the complaint is here.

Basically Arc stored the desired equipment

configuration

in its template, this stores the equipment itself.

Let's say you have two characters you play, one a Viper guardian the other an Assassin warrior and you have one set of legendary armour.

In Arcs system you can move the equipment from one to the other and then back without having to manually set up the Stats and Runes and so on. Arc does that for you. It records the equipment configuration as part of the build.

Once you take a piece of equipment out of ArenaNet's implementation you've lost any knowledge of that equipment or how you were using it. The equipment configuration is not part of the build. You have to remember the stats and Runes and manually reconfigure it.

That's why multiple ascended sets will be better than legendary ones.

I dont believe that's what Anet stated since they said the stats on legendary can also be set in the template it's used. If you change characters you would still have to move the gear as usual.

[Edelweiss.4261]

Legendary equipment locks what should be a baseline or easily accessible feature behind a gold/time-sink that most players will never get beyond. The implication that having legendary equipment shows more investment(be it time, "dedication", or "commitment") is nonsense. I don't waste my time with raids/fractals because I find them less enjoyable than watching paint dry. This does not mean I have invested less in the game in any meaningful measure. That someone may stay under the illusion that their investment is more valuable than mine is exemplified by a number of posts in this thread. Simply put, this thread highlights why implementing legendary equipment was a terrible decision.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Nah this is a vocal minority complaining about this. I don't have legendary gear like MOST players.

How selfish of you. So that means that people who invested a lot to get legendary gear should be ignored, even "discriminated" against?? Thanks a lot. ;)

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:You did see that all items are character bound in the template item storage right?So no sharing across the account.

I mean you can't do that now either though. The new feature does what you currently can do but with less clicks.

Are you sure? Apparently, you have not put much thought into this. Now you simply drag items over into your bank to swap them between characters. With ANet's templates, though, you will not only have to drag stuff into the bank; no, it will come with more "clicks", as you will first have to find the stuff among your equipped gear and your gear storage, then you will have to drag and drop it over, and by doing so unlink it from your templates and have to redo them all over (yes, "all" as in several if you use the same gear in more than one) every single time.

That's definitely a lot more time-consuming than without such a templates feature, no?

As GW1 and ArcDPS have shown, there are simpler, easier ways to handle this. Ways, that mean less of a hassle for the user. As stated before, sometimes less is more.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

The thing is, the build templates serves no real function in PvE because nearly all the content is doable on whatever stat set on wants to use. That is unless players are using the templates for fashion purposes only. In WvW however, the template system serves a far greater function. I can't remember (though I'm probably wrong), any PvE focused player ever mentioning build slots/templates. In WvW however this was mentioned quite frequently and for years.

[Despond.2174]

If there is no separate storage than to me it's a pointless addition because I"d need to buy more bag space on top of buying more templates. The inconvenience of clicking my return item to swap out will far outweigh anything this new feature has to offer.

Legendary armors still have amazing benefit of saving bank space, being able to hybrid stats, save runes, change on the fly etc. Will they get the most out of this change? Probably not, but I am sure there's coding issues with being able to save them like with ascended armor.

If I had a choice I'd still rather all 3 sets of legendary armor than any template system.

[Pifil.5193]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:It does work for trinkets and weapons. Unfortunately you have to switch to wep section or trinket section. And yeah it is annoying i will admit. I dont have arc so i cant comment on it.

You did see that all items are character bound in the template item storage right?So no sharing across the account.

I mean you can't do that now either though. The new feature does what you currently can do but with less clicks.

yeah but people who used arc didn't lose all their templates by moving the gear between characters.

Where as if you unequip your gear, you lose your "template" too.

I dont know how arc works but even with it, gear can only be worn on one character at a time. So template or no template that not different here. So I don't get what the complaint is here.

Basically Arc stored the desired equipment

configuration

in its template, this stores the equipment itself.

Let's say you have two characters you play, one a Viper guardian the other an Assassin warrior and you have one set of legendary armour.

In Arcs system you can move the equipment from one to the other and then back without having to manually set up the Stats and Runes and so on. Arc does that for you. It records the equipment configuration as part of the build.

Once you take a piece of equipment out of ArenaNet's implementation you've lost any knowledge of that equipment or how you were using it. The equipment configuration is not part of the build. You have to remember the stats and Runes and manually reconfigure it.

That's why multiple ascended sets will be better than legendary ones.

I dont believe that's what Anet stated since they said the stats on legendary can also be set in the template it's used. If you change characters you would still have to move the gear as usual.

Yes, but in arc you can move the gear over to another character then back and when you select your template again it sets the stats and Runes to those that the template uses for you. In ArenaNet's implementation when you remove the item from your equipment template the stats and Runes that you were using on that piece of equipment are "forgotten" and will have to be reselected

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:It does work for trinkets and weapons. Unfortunately you have to switch to wep section or trinket section. And yeah it is annoying i will admit. I dont have arc so i cant comment on it.

You did see that all items are character bound in the template item storage right?So no sharing across the account.

I mean you can't do that now either though. The new feature does what you currently can do but with less clicks.

yeah but people who used arc didn't lose all their templates by moving the gear between characters.

Where as if you unequip your gear, you lose your "template" too.

I dont know how arc works but even with it, gear can only be worn on one character at a time. So template or no template that not different here. So I don't get what the complaint is here.

Basically Arc stored the desired equipment

configuration

in its template, this stores the equipment itself.

Let's say you have two characters you play, one a Viper guardian the other an Assassin warrior and you have one set of legendary armour.

In Arcs system you can move the equipment from one to the other and then back without having to manually set up the Stats and Runes and so on. Arc does that for you. It records the equipment configuration as part of the build.

Once you take a piece of equipment out of ArenaNet's implementation you've lost any knowledge of that equipment or how you were using it. The equipment configuration is not part of the build. You have to remember the stats and Runes and manually reconfigure it.

That's why multiple ascended sets will be better than legendary ones.

I dont believe that's what Anet stated since they said the stats on legendary can also be set in the template it's used. If you change characters you would still have to move the gear as usual.

Yes, but in arc you can move the gear over to another character then back and when you select your template again it sets the stats and Runes to those that the template uses for you. In ArenaNet's implementation when you remove the item from your equipment template the stats and Runes that you were using on that piece of equipment are "forgotten" and will have to be reselected

well I am sure thats something they can fit after release. Dont see that as a big issue.

[Taygus.4571]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:It does work for trinkets and weapons. Unfortunately you have to switch to wep section or trinket section. And yeah it is annoying i will admit. I dont have arc so i cant comment on it.

You did see that all items are character bound in the template item storage right?So no sharing across the account.

I mean you can't do that now either though. The new feature does what you currently can do but with less clicks.

yeah but people who used arc didn't lose all their templates by moving the gear between characters.

Where as if you unequip your gear, you lose your "template" too.

I dont know how arc works but even with it, gear can only be worn on one character at a time. So template or no template that not different here. So I don't get what the complaint is here.

Basically Arc stored the desired equipment

configuration

in its template, this stores the equipment itself.

Let's say you have two characters you play, one a Viper guardian the other an Assassin warrior and you have one set of legendary armour.

In Arcs system you can move the equipment from one to the other and then back without having to manually set up the Stats and Runes and so on. Arc does that for you. It records the equipment configuration as part of the build.

Once you take a piece of equipment out of ArenaNet's implementation you've lost any knowledge of that equipment or how you were using it. The equipment configuration is not part of the build. You have to remember the stats and Runes and manually reconfigure it.

That's why multiple ascended sets will be better than legendary ones.

I dont believe that's what Anet stated since they said the stats on legendary can also be set in the template it's used. If you change characters you would still have to move the gear as usual.

Yes, but in arc you can move the gear over to another character then back and when you select your template again it sets the stats and Runes to those that the template uses for you. In ArenaNet's implementation when you remove the item from your equipment template the stats and Runes that you were using on that piece of equipment are "forgotten" and will have to be reselected

well I am sure thats something they can fit after release. Dont see that as a big issue.

I'm assuming you don't have legendary gear that you regularly share between characters then?

How much of an issue this is depends on how many templates between characters someone uses

It might not be a "big issue" to you...but recognise it is to other players, who are now thinking they should just have made multiple sets of ascended and never bothered with the cost of legendary

[Taygus.4571]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:The thing is, the build templates serves no real function in PvE because nearly all the content is doable on whatever stat set on wants to use.

What?

Raids, Fractals are pve.... and being able to change builds on the fly wil make runs far smoother

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

I mean really how many stat combinations do you really need. And if your a hardcore raider/fractaler chances are you have plenty of gear. I know i barely play those modes and i have 2 sets of ascended on 13 toons that i didnt spend a dime on. I have 3 with legendary. If you guys had it your way i would never ever need to make gear EVER again. My extra character slots was a complete waste of money and i would demand a refund because all you would really need is 9. Mats would crash because there is no need to make anything once you acquired 1 of it. People would probably play less. I would because now there really isnt any type of end game. The new endgame will be save up to buy a chak egg sac, nah im good. Its a good design. Arc was made and updated by people for the people for fun and are probably tired of updating it for nothing. Be happy that anet didnt shut that down immediately when made and ban everyone who used it. They are well within thier rights to have done so.

[Lucinellia.9247]

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:Nah this is a vocal minority complaining about this. I don't have legendary gear like MOST players.

Ahh. So this is a case of "it doesn't affect me, therefore it doesn't affect anyone else"?

I am not sure you can reasonably provide an opinion into this when you quite clearly state that it won't impact you. It is great that the feature is going to work well for you, and you'll get everything out of it, however that isn't the case for all players and those that have invested more into the game through committing to achieving legendary items are getting less than you while paying the same.

If you can't see that as a problem, I am not sure you have a lot more to contribute. I am glad the feature is going to go down well with you but that doesn't invalidate any concerns being expressed by other players despite your attempts to suggest we are a "vocal minority". Well, yes. Minorities will be vocal when they get treated poorer for going with a previously proposed solution by Arenanet.

I am not sure what is too tricky about that to understand. If it annoys you that we speak out and raise these concerns, you can ignore this thread.

@Despond.2174 said:Legendary armors still have amazing benefit of saving bank space, being able to hybrid stats, save runes, change on the fly etc. Will they get the most out of this change? Probably not, but I am sure there's coding issues with being able to save them like with ascended armor.

They save less effective bank space now while providing less features despite taking more effort to get. That shouldn't be the case for a paid feature that is going to be more important for the same people that invested in legendary armor so that they can run more builds and be of more use to their raid/fractal/WvW groups.

At the minimum we should get an almost feature complete setup where we aren't missing out on the QoL increase that ascended is getting in terms of fashion swapping. That would at least soften the blow a little given that those players are getting less in terms of effective storage.

@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:The thing is, the build templates serves no real function in PvE because nearly all the content is doable on whatever stat set on wants to use. That is unless players are using the templates for fashion purposes only.

I take it you don't do any sort of instanced content?

For raids I definitely can't use "whatever stat set". In fact, I have multiple armor set ups on every character. For my Thief alone I have amor setups for power DPS as Daredevil or D/D Deadeye, a power set for Rifle Deadeye, a condition set that I share between Daredevil and Deadeye builds, a set for kiting on Qadim in Mythwright Gambit, a Diviner boon thief set, a Harrier boon thief set and a toughness / concentration boon thief set. In addition to that I used to have a Daredevil Deimos kiting build before the Shadow Arts changes and then multiple variants of the above for different group compositions and for some challenge motes.

That doesn't even get into situations for Fractals, Dungeons or even Open World where people will have multiple builds. PvE has a high amount of build diversity.

@"Edelweiss.4261" said:Legendary equipment locks what should be a baseline or easily accessible feature behind a gold/time-sink that most players will never get beyond. The implication that having legendary equipment shows more investment(be it time, "dedication", or "commitment") is nonsense. I don't waste my time with raids/fractals because I find them less enjoyable than watching paint dry. This does not mean I have invested less in the game in any meaningful measure.

Your point is not consistent at all and all you are doing is ranting about legendary equipment being introduced - Arenanet did this specifically, in terms of armor, because we didn't have build templates! You mention that legendary equipment is locked behind a time sink. And then claim that it doesn't actually show a commitment in terms of time.

Which is it? You can't have it both ways when you are making such contradictory statements.

That someone may stay under the illusion that their investment is more valuable than mine is exemplified by a number of posts in this thread

You seem to have missed the main point of this thread and I would kindly ask you to go back and read my comments where I've attempted to explain the argument and make it clear for people that have shown they aren't following. I am not stating that your time is more or less valuable and to spin what I've written as such is a poor argument and somewhat disingenuous. Instead, I am highlighting that my investment - and that of other players that have put their time and gold into legendary armor, weapons and trinkets - is being devalued by how equipment templates are being introduced. I imagine you'd be equally annoyed if something you put a lot of time and effort into acquiring or completing suddenly became less useful because of a feature you are going to have to pay for anyway.

The lack of empathy and this insistence to try and pretend this isn't a problem, to brush it away as a vocal minority, or use it to complain about things that have been in the game since release is a bit disappointing. I'd have hoped for a bit more consideration of what people are raising instead of trying to talk past people to dismiss their concerns.

Edit: One post for multiple responses to avoid spamming the thread.